Not shy online .. very shy in person .. help! :)

[A1621]

Hey all ..

So, I'll get right to it. 3 years ago I met this girl online. We talk almost everyday through video chat and we get along great .. always have. After about 2 years we decided to meet. She had told me once a long time ago that she is shy but I didn't think anything of it .. I thought it was cute. She didn't think it was cute though and at the time, I brushed it off as a non-issue. Thought she meant she'd be a little quiet for the first 30 minutes and then we'd be just like we are online.

Eventually we did meet. The first day was electric! It was so exciting, seeing each other face to face after looking into the webcam for over 2 years .. we were finally, "real" to each other. But the next few days were awful. Looking back I realize now that anytime we were with her friends, with her mom or in public we got along great, just as we did online. But when we found ourselves alone, she got quiet and didn't feel like doing anything. Just wanted to sit and watch TV or something. I was confused and guess I was upset for coming all that way and she didn't want to do anything. (I'm in the US and she lives in Europe so yeah, it was a big deal, us meeting.) We ended up fighting a lot and it was just ugly.

After I came home and we started on Skype again everything was fine. Now she feels really bad about it. She said that she doesn't know why she can't be herself around me and for that reason she doesn't think we should meet again. She said she believes she ruined my vacation and cannot promise that if we meet again she'll be any different.

At first, part of me thought that maybe she just doesn't like me. But I know that's not true. Then I remembered what she said about being shy. I always thought that shy meant a little bit quiet and cute until you get used to somebody new. But now I'm learning it might go even deeper than that and I have to wonder if what I experienced was a deeper level of shyness, one that maybe she isn't aware of since she couldn't explain why she couldn't be herself around me in person, but she can online.

She told me once that we have something that people who live a lifetime together don't always find. That we get along so well. She also said that she feels good when she's with me (online) and for her that's the most important thing. We do have something good together and I really do wanna go see her again. I just I need some help understanding I guess .. how best to communicate with her.

So, does this sound like shyness? And if so, how can I be better with/for her? Not to brag but, I feel I'm very empathetic, understanding, compassionate and, I listen pretty well. I just didn't realize it before .. thought maybe she was blowing me off or something. But just the other day we talked about it again and .. it's like she's afraid to get together again because she's worried she'll act the same and ruin things for me. I want to reassure her without drawing attention to it .. like saying, "Hunny, I know you're shy but it's okay." That will likely just make her more uncomfortable .. feel like I look at her like she has some disease and now I'm gonna treat her differently. Maybe she will be/act the same .. but I have changed. Guess what I'm also asking for is any insight that might help me better communicate with her .. online now about us potentially getting together again and, after we meet.

Thanks everyone .. for listening and for anything you have to comment on. I really appreciate it.

~ John

 

[laure15]

I feel like I'm reading about myself. I have 2 different personalities when I am online vs offline. I am usually not shy online, actually quite the opposite. I am more "talkative" and not afraid to express my true feelings. I guess I love hiding behind the anonymity of online usernames.
But I get very nervous and awkward when meeting people face to face, in real life. My real life personality is very different from my online personality.
When people exchange emails with me, they get a positive impression of me, but after they call me and meet me offline, they lose interest.
Anyways, I think your female friend is probably uncomfortable with a certain level of initimacy. High-tech tools such as webcam bring a barrier to intimacy. Sure you can see the other person and make eye contact through the webcam, but it's very different from a face to face meeting where you get to see, smell, hear, and feel the other person for real. For people with social phobia such as myself, it's preferrable to use IM or webcam for communication than to meet face to face.

 

[mikebird]

YES!!

It's time for me to face up to it.

Not shy when I send an email full of facts, truth, logic, and detail - in my office
or to earn myself a job, via recruiters

But I don't like it when they have to call me to size me up, poke me with a stick, ask my name 20 times... and blacklist me if I don't respond correctly to any random, anonymous phone call

Proper English sentences with punctuation suits me, as a professional, but it's not good enough for normal people. Have to say HEEEYYYY!!!!!

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!

Whooooopeeeedoooodeeeeeeeeeeee!!! tooo... EEEveryone!!!! Every daaaayyyyy!!! I try everything. Never good enough

Strangely, I remember a time when I can detect yet another time approachin at work when I'll get fired today (Friday, of course) because I'm not sociable enufff... not statement from a boss or colleague. Just eye'ing me up, giggling...

Then I often get into an emotional state and act! Built on my fury. Do you want me to strip naked in front of you here, and dance in front of you? Then I'll get a round of coffees and teas? This seems not to work. Deeper into being seen as a freak. BUT what's the answer? I CAN DO ANYTHING. I CAN. for anyone.

BUT I cannot know what people want of me. All I know is what I want. I never get that

 

[OceanMist]

Interesting story. I enjoyed reading it, even though things didn't totally work out for you. They still could work out, though.

Anyway, this woman you met is no different than many other shy people. It's no surprise that after meeting a woman from online that says she's shy, that she would act the way she did.

Shy, introverted people often enjoy lots of alone time. I know I do.

I will say what she did to you was selfish. I say that because it's not like you just came across town to see her, you went all the way to freaking Europe to see her, which means she better freaking go out with you at least a few times and treat you with more respect.

I get that she was afraid, but the fact that you went across the Atlantic means that she owes you the courtesy of stepping up to her fears and going out with you at least a few times.

What you probably should have done is felt the situation out more. There are questions you could have asked her like, "When I come out there, what places will we go?" If you did ask that and she lied to you and said you'd go places then that's really messed up on her part.

In my own personal opinion, I think you two are too different and I think she's too selfish. I hope that doesn't offend you, that's just what I think.

See, you like to go places, she doesn't. That can be a big confict in a potential relationship. What happens when Friday night rolls around and she never wants to go out with you?

She's selfish because from the way you described, she didn't once do what you wanted to do (go out). That's not fair if you always have to do what she wants to do. That's selfish on her part.

She at least could go out a couple times to at least throw you a bone, you know?

 

[MotherWolff]

I'm shy online and in person.

 

[Lea]

I quite agree with OceanMist. I also think, on the second day she might have gotten into depression, because she was disilusioned with something. Maybe she realized she isn´t as attracted to you as she thought she was, or there is something else that was putting her off. Still, it was selfish that she didn´t even attempt to be courteous and do things with you. Any relationship is always work, not only enjoyment. When she blames it on SA, I wouldn´t believe it that much. I have an impression, that she doesn´t want to continue a relationship with you, and even if you try next time you meet, will happen the same.

Still I may be wrong, if you keep on trying, good luck.

 

[xDreamseller]

I assume that most other people here, like myself, would feel quite comfortable around people we know that well and are in a one on one situation with. Not sure what her reasons were, but I would be pretty relaxed around someone I knew for 2 years. (Sure it was online with a webcam, but you can get to know someone very well online. Maybe even more so as they open up more)

 

[A1621]

Hey, thanks for the replies .. I only have a minute here and will say more later but just wanted to clarify a few things.

We did go out and do stuff .. didn't sit around all the time. We went out twice with her friends and had a great time. The first day was great .. riding the train together .. we got to the cabin and recreated our first online date (on that we each ordered pizza and talked, played games, listened to music, etc.) only in person. We cooked dinner together the second day and had fun with that. I brought my guitar and she had fun playing around with it. It was basically days 3 and 4 that went to complete sh#t. Day 3, she just didn't feel like doing anything. And to be honest, I'm okay with staying in. In fact, sometimes I prefer it. But she told me she's the wild type that likes to get out and do stuff so I tried to encourage her to come out with me. It never occurred to me that she might be experiencing some level of anxiety about the situation but looking back, that fits almost perfectly. A couple times, she didn't want to do something but I convinced her to try and we both had fun.

And she didn't blame anything on being shy .. she told me she doesn't even know why she felt not in the mood to do anything when I was there and felt bad about it after. Now it is true that she doesn't have the same level of feelings for me that I have for her .. but not enough that we couldn't enjoy the time we had together.

Anyway, we're back to talking everyday again and we, "go out" a little once a week. I want to talk to her about getting together again .. though it won't happen for several more months .. want to kind of ease into it. She has a past too .. which I'm not going to get into here but, I will offline in PM .. maybe.

I've waited my whole life for someone as special as she is .. I can be patient and wait some more. Hoping that by coming here I can gain some better insight on how to better pay attention to what she's saying (verbally and non-verbally) and how to respond. When I left, I seriously thought she hated me. I mean, why else would she have acted that way? How could we get along sooooo well online but then in person .. it was a horror show? And she told me, she thought it was gonna be fun too .. and seriously doesn't know why she acted that way. But I know it's not the first time so, it's not just me. Could be, "just" that she's super shy .. could be past relationships .. could be a number of things. It's just, the person I met in București was NOT the same girl I had known online for the past years. Something was different. Think I'm starting to see exactly what that was now. We'll see how things go when we talk this weekend.

 

[A1621]

Okay so, a direct question has finally come from all this rambling of mine. ::

We usually, "go out" every Friday (online of course) .. nothing fancy .. just hang out and play games, talk, etc. Anyway, when we talk this week, I want to bring this up and, I was just thinking (from something I read somewhere else) maybe one option is to just come right out and talk about it. I mean like, ask her directly, "When we were out with (her friends) everything was great. but when we were alone at home, things were different. I thought you were mad at me for something but, were you really feeling anxious or nervous hunny?" I mean, it's weird. Because the way she acted sometimes was consistent with someone who was in a situation that made them super uncomfortable. My question is, was she uncomfortable because she didn't want to be with me, because she just doesn't like me? Or was it because she was anxious and didn't know how to act with me, in person .. for whatever reason? That to me is THE KEY to everything. Like I said, when we went out with friends, I mean .. we were in this restaurant and laughing and joking .. even flirting a little. We all had such a good time. But when we got back .. and I saw how she was being, I started to wonder if that was all just an act for her friends .. which one was the real her?

From the way we are online .. and what she's told me since I came home, I believe the real her was the one at the restaurant. If she didn't like me, she wouldn't have been doing all that stuff. I mean, that's the impression I get. Even though she said she loves me as a friend but nothing more (yet! Lol!), it doesn't make sense that if she were truly put off by me that she would act that way in public knowing that I love her .. it would be super cruel actually and I know she's not.

I do know she has issues with intimacy .. she's had some abusive relationships, emotional and physical and experienced abuse in the home growing up too. She even told me once that she doesn't believe in love anymore .. that it's just pain. There are also things that she's afraid of and, I can sense that her fear .. even though not understood fully, is quite strong. Stir that in with the fact that we do have a significant age gap and we live almost 6,000 miles apart. I have to wonder if part of her has closed off her heart without her knowing it .. out of fear of getting too close, when in her mind she believes there's no way we could be together anyway so, why bother? But we have also experienced some very sweet, tender moments together too. What we have does go beyond friendship but falls short of a romantic relationship. But I feel very strongly that it's really a matter of removing a block that is in the way. How to do that gently, is my concern. Again, any thoughts are appreciated and thank you all for the input so far. This has already been such a big help as even the seemingly insignificant stray comments all have value .. as they cause me to think.

~ John

 

[dottie]

these are my thoughts, what you asked for... don't get mad if it's not what you want to hear.

give it up. get a real life girlfriend. she is worlds away and it wouldn't work out anyway. so, why cling to some fantasy? you're deluding yourself, stringing yourself on with mind games. skyping is not a substitute for a real life relationship, affection, connecting on a genuine level. this will make a lot of people mad but i'm speaking from experience. stop wasting your time. move on.

 

[A1621]

Hey .. I appreciate your honesty .. though it didn't address my questions/concerns.

And .. relocation IS a very real option. If it weren't .. I wouldn't have come this far.

 

[dottie]

you already fight in real life and you're going to relocate to another country? ok. i think you're avoiding the real issues and stringing yourself along. no offense.

edit...

well, not avoiding the real issues. you do seem to be aware there are problems. but you would be turning a blind eye to a future trainwreck if you were to jump into this. that's my opinion. that's all.

 

[A1621]

you would be turning a blind eye to a future trainwreck if you were to jump into this

Not at all .. not jumping anywhere just yet. This is merely one dimension to what we have together .. albeit a dealmaker/breaker. I have no intention of going anywhere (nor does she) without knowing that we can make it work. If it were tomorrow, I wouldn't be moving. But I also can't ignore that we have something really unique and beautiful .. I haven't gone into all that here because it's not relevant to the specific issue I'm interested in.

I mean .. it's kind of like .. you hear about this awesome restaurant and you're dying to go. Everyday you walk by and you smell the aromas of the meals, you read the reviews and you're just busting to go in there. Then you do and you get food poisoning. Lol! Okay, harsh example. :: But who knows, could have just been a bad piece of meat or the chef was having issues or hell knows. The point is we do have something great .. just when we met, we were greeted with something neither of us (apparently) expected. And it would be a serious shame to throw everything away because we weren't willing to take the time to see if it's something we can work through.

 

[OceanMist]

And it would be a serious shame to throw everything away because we weren't willing to take the time to see if it's something we can work through.

I commend your ability to believe in love and willingness to go to different parts of the world to attain it.

I also think that your above sentence you wrote tells the reason why this probably isn't going to work out for you with this woman.

I don't believe a relationship should involve 'work' as you said. You shouldn't have to work through anything. It should just be natural and you should get along.

There shouldn't be a battle, it should just be a quiet, calm understanding of eachother. That's love to me.

It just seems like the difference between you and her is too much of a problem. You shouldn't have to make it work, it should just already have worked by itself on it's own.

 

[mezzoforte]

I'm the same way, lol.

 

[laure15]

I don't believe a relationship should involve 'work' as you said. You shouldn't have to work through anything. It should just be natural and you should get along.

This sounds like laziness to me. Because in every relationship, both parties need to put in effort to make it last. It takes 2 to tango.

There shouldn't be a battle, it should just be a quiet, calm understanding of eachother. That's love to me.

In a relationship, there should be mutual love as well as mutual effort.

 

[OceanMist]

This sounds like laziness to me. Because in every relationship, both parties need to put in effort to make it last. It takes 2 to tango.



In a relationship, there should be mutual love as well as mutual effort.

The kind of work I was referring to was the 'making it work' theory the OP wants to do.

I think the word, work, is probably too broad of a term for this thread.

I don't define listening to a partner and speaking your mind in a relationship as work.

I do define arguing so much that partners don't want to talk to eachother as work.

It's the whole 'making it work' thing....if someone has to make it work, I just don't see why they should be together? there are so many other women out there that are potential mates for him that he won't have to 'make it work' for, they will just click and have an easier time talking to eachother without all the disagreements and waiting.

There are many women that are already willing to go out when he wants to go out. There are many women where the OP wouldn't have to deal with all this baggage that this girl is bringing him. Plus, these women live in USA instead of Europe.

I don't see how just wanting a relationship to click and not having arguments is lazy? Why would anyone want a relationship to be difficult? It shouldn't be difficult, it should be comfortable, understanding and happy. Not angry, non-understanding and argumentative.

 

[A1621]

OceanMist - all comments are appreciated but I feel the need to point out something. Do you realize that over 6% of your post consisted of the words, "should" or, "shouldn't?" Just sayin.

Should implies idealism. Should implies restrictions. You might say, "I shouldn't feel this way about (something)." Well, what if you should? What if the idea that something SHOULD be a certain way, is in fact not so? You're entitled to your beliefs and opinions. However I believe that anything worth having/experiencing is worth effort. Doesn't mean fight against the tide .. insist on loving someone when they openly despise you. We got along great online for more than 2 years. But when we met in person, something happened that apparently neither of us expected. We both freaked out. Yes, myself included. I didn't admit this before but, I too can be shy, in unfamiliar situations. The thing is, I tend to hide it by making noise. Lol! On the other hand, she tends to get quiet. And the more she got quiet, the more I talked and tried to fix what I perceived to be something that I must have done wrong, to cause her to be quiet. Then my ranting pushed her to be more quiet and the spiral continued until we started to get on each other's nerves. We both got frustrated and upset because this isn't what we expected, AT ALL.

And now we're apart again and back to talking online and things are great like before. So I ask, isn't it worth a little effort or, "work" to learn to move through this MINOR conflict we had .. to learn how to communicate better in person in order to see if the fun we have online really can be found in person too .. and maybe even moreso? I'd say yes.

If I can make an analogy .. you're climbing a mountain .. it's a dream you've held for many years, to reach the summit and experience the incredible view. Then, just a mere 1,000 feet away and you notice .. ice. You try to climb but keep sliding back. You get so frustrated because you're so close but seem unable to complete the journey. So you return to the base where you discover, ice shoes for climbing that part of the mountain. Now .. do you say, "Pfff, I'm going home" or does the desire to reach the summit, knowing what awaits you there drive you and encourage you to go again, better prepared and ready this time? I guess that's an individual decision and well .. I've made mine.

One more quick one, and this is a true story. I had a dog that was terribly sick. She was relatively old but otherwise in good health and could have lived many more years. But she needed some serious care and the doctor felt the need to point out the fact that, there was no guarantee .. that it was a great expense and is it something I wanted to do. I was like, "Are you kidding? She will have every chance there is until it's determined beyond a doubt that there is no hope." That's how I feel here. If the day comes that we are both in agreement that all hope is lost .. then and only then, will I cease. For someone this special .. I'm willing to put in the effort to overcome obstacles and not just throw my hands up and go, "Pfff, this is too hard .. I'm outta here." Love isn't a feeling as much as it is a choice. And like I said, I've made my choice.

 

[OceanMist]

Well, I guess if you feel love could be knocking at the door, you may as well try to open it. I can't argue with that.

 

[shyness123]

these are my thoughts, what you asked for... don't get mad if it's not what you want to hear.

give it up. get a real life girlfriend. she is worlds away and it wouldn't work out anyway. so, why cling to some fantasy? you're deluding yourself, stringing yourself on with mind games. skyping is not a substitute for a real life relationship, affection, connecting on a genuine level. this will make a lot of people mad but i'm speaking from experience. stop wasting your time. move on.

I agree, this girl lives far away and you can't see her on a regular basis. Get someone who can you can see daily and who is in your life and who you have a real relationship with.