My SA is NOT "irrational" at all - re: social skills

[tooshytosay]

I see, in so many places, "explanations" saying that SA is due to an "irrational" fear of people.

Well sure, that might be the case if you're a person with impeccable social skills, hence, have "no problem" otherwise with being around people.

The thing is, I have crap-all social skills. So to me, my SA is what you'd call a completely "rational" fear. Say, if you were told to pilot a Boeing-747 when you have know idea what to do - would you be scared? I sure would. Yet this is a completely "rational" fear. And this is exactly how I feel regarding social situations.

Put me in a room with another person, in any context - hell, I wouldn't know where to place my eyes, I wouldn't know what to do, I wouldn't know what to say, I wouldn't know how to reply to whatever the they say, I wouldn't know how to respond to any silence / awkwardness... the list goes on. And this sort of thing happens in ANY context where I'm in contact with another person / people.

With regard to social skills, I've become sick of the "just-do-it"/"immerse-yourself-in-the-situation" kind of advice. My question is - just do WHAT? They tell me to jump in the deep end of the pool. Ok. Then do WHAT? Sure, to the people "advising" you it's all-too-easy. Social skills are second-nature to them. They cannot comprehend what life is like without those skills. When thrown in the deep-end, those people will break off into an "instinctive" paddle, whereas I would drown.

To take this analogy further, after some near-drowning experiences (i.e., horribly bad social experiences where at any moment I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to be doing) I'm now staying away from it all. Those "bad" experiences, if anything, VINDICATED the fact that indeed, my "fear" of people (SA) was "rational" and "justified", given my complete lack of social skills.

 

[mimi1988]

My social skills have improved tremendously the older I've gotten. Still not where I want to be though. I went from being this little girl who wouldn't even respond to someone saying hello to me, to being this person who sometimes initiates conversations with total strangers. I swear, my SA is so random. The only ppl I'm 100% comfortable around is my brother, sister, parents, my grandma, 1 of my cousins, & 1 of my aunts. Some days I'm comfortable around other relatives (or strangers) and sometimes I'm not. I find that as long as I'm around someone I'm close to (such my sister), my SA isn't bad. Heck, if you were to see me in public when I'm with my sister or brother, I promise you you'd never be able to tell I suffered with SA. I didn't instantly improve. I still have room for A LOT more improvement, but I'm glad I'm not as bad as I was as a little girl lol.

 

[recluse]

My sa is not irrational either. All throughout my childhood and teens i was subjected to redicule. One reason being i have a slight speech impediment and this made me afraid to speak, then i was quite chubby.....I have many reasons why i am so anxious of people.

Although people are generally nice to me now i still have a distrust of everyone. My bad memories and experiences with people are tattooed in my mind and it's not easy to forget them.

 

[NothingElseMatters]

Say, if you were told to pilot a Boeing-747 when you have know idea what to do - would you be scared?

With regard to social skills, I've become sick of the "just-do-it"/"immerse-yourself-in-the-situation" kind of advice. My question is - just do WHAT? They tell me to jump in the deep end of the pool. Ok. Then do WHAT? Sure, to the people "advising" you it's all-too-easy. Social skills are second-nature to them. QUOTE]

you're right that you can't just-do-it.if that was the case we would be out there just doing it right?but don't get hopeless though. cause social skills are just what the name says.skills.and they can be learned just as any other skills.something i did because i didn have any social skills few years ago and because i got tired of reading books but i was very scared of putting myself into situations,was to go out sit somewhere and observe ppl...it didn give me any help on social skills,but it made me realize that the image of perfection of social skills i had in my mind had nothing to do with what social skills are in real life.having social skills doesnt mean to be perfect and do nothing wrong in real life.as for me it means to be able to do the things i want even the stupidest things and enjoy them and not feeling guilty about it

 

[Ashiene]

There is a vast difference between Social Anxiety Disorder and Social Phobia. The latter is an irrational fear (as all phobias are) of a rational situation, while the former is simply a rational fear caused by excessive worrying.

 

[doesit]

Say, if you were told to pilot a Boeing-747 when you have know idea what to do - would you be scared?
you are comparing two different things,because if you were able to fly a plane there would be a very small % that something bad would happen or you would die,and being in the same room with someone and having a hard attack or is about 0.00000000001% chance.so your anxiety is due to irrational thoughts because you have fears that are likely impossible to happen,but your brain takes every thought as it is really happening.

 

[SilentType]

Many people with no flight experience have succeeded in landing airplanes in emergency situations.


Peace

 

[misterF]

I've had good and bad experiences with exposing myself to social situations.
On one hand I've had good experiences by attending a language class but it took weeks of seeing the same group of people a couple of times a week to really get comfortable enough and be able to talk a bit. Also I would have never met my girlfriend if I didn't force myself to talk to her the first time we met.
On the other hand I've had plenty of failed attempt at forcing myself into social situations, where it was just too hard for me and I really couldn't talk at all and appeared really dumb. When that happens it really brings me down and lowers my self esteem, so yeah exposure has its faults.

 

[Nicholas]

An irrational fear is when you are afraid something impossible or extremely unlikely will happen, or when you are afraid of something innocuous.
Some of our fears are irrational (example: omg I'm ugly) and others are rational (example: omg, I have no life so of course no girl is likely to be interested in me), but this distinction doesn't matter to those who want to get better.
The only thing that counts is that no matter if a fear is irrational or not, if it's causing you problems you must win that fear. Being afraid of snakes is ok... who the hell has to deal with snakes on a regular basis? But being afraid of normal people, going out, being afraid of having a normal life is NOT acceptable. Irrational or not, we must find a way to react.

 

[Argamemnon]

My social anxiety is not completely irrational either. People always become nervous and awkward around me. I'm not making this up. My anxiety must really show on my face. When this happens my anxiety becomes even worse and eventually I get depressed. I must learn not to give a damn about people noticing my anxiety, but somehow I'm unable to do so.

 

[Slothrop]

Well sure, that might be the case if you're a person with impeccable social skills, hence, have "no problem" otherwise with being around people.

The irrationality of the fear comes from the discrepancy between real-world probabilities and what you imagine. It has nothing to do with your level of social skill: even people with well-developed social skills are succeptible to the same kind of irrational fear, even people with poor social skills may have no irrational fear of social situations, and most people have irrational fear about certain uncommon social situations, like public speaking or asking someone out on a date.

Again, it's the discrepancy between what is likely to happen in reality and what your mind assumes is likely to happen that makes it irrational. People with SA tend to focus on the times when bad things happened and discount the times when they don't, and often interpret neutral events as negative. As a result we feel like the negative experiences are more common and typical than they actually are. Even when we realize that not everyone experiences things the same way as us we often interpret that as a sign that we are uniquely and irreparably flawed and not (more accurately) as a sign that the way we experience things is not in line with reality.

Say, if you were told to pilot a Boeing-747 when you have know idea what to do - would you be scared? I sure would.

Think about this further. Some people pilot 747s every day, and it didn't "come naturally" to them. They weren't born 747 pilots, they trained, they practiced, and every time they fly they're getting a little bit more experience. That's what enables them to do the job with a minimum of fear. It's the same way with any other skill, including social skills: it's learned by doing.

Put me in a room with another person, in any context - hell, I wouldn't know where to place my eyes, I wouldn't know what to do, I wouldn't know what to say, I wouldn't know how to reply to whatever the they say, I wouldn't know how to respond to any silence / awkwardness... the list goes on.

Nobody knows these things. We only ever do the best we can. It is impossible for anyone to act perfectly or predict what the best action will be; there are just too many variables and too little time. In other words, there is no one "right" way to act, there are only better and worse ways depending on the circumstances.

Being adept at a skill just means you've learned to make better decisions more often than when the skill was poorly developed. It doesn't mean that you will always fail if you aren't highly skilled any more than it means you will always succeed if you are.

I notice that you're describing this as a bad thing but have said nothing about how the other person would react. You're assuming that 1) you couldn't possibly do anything well and that 2) anything you do would provoke a negative reaction. These are irrational beliefs. In the case of #1 because being poorly skilled does not make it impossible to act appropriately, and #2 because you cannot make perfect predictions about people's reactions. If you strip away these irrational assumptions, there is nothing inherently bad about the situation you described.

SA makes you feel like any social interaction that didn't go perfectly the way you like to have been a failure. This is irrational, because everyone has interactions like that. The real failure is avoiding social interaction entirely. That is what actually prevents you from living the life you want to lead.

My question is - just do WHAT?

It doesn't matter. Just do the best you can. What matters is experiencing the reality of the situation. The more experience you have with the reality of the situation, and how it is almost always not as bad as you expect, the more accurate your expectations will be, the less anxiety you will feel, and the better you will perform in those situations. All of the books, drugs, thinking and therapy in the world won't replace the value of experience. They'll help, but ultimately you need the experience.

Social skills are second-nature to them. They cannot comprehend what life is like without those skills.

We call things "second nature" when we can't explain how we do them, because when we're doing them we aren't thinking about them. That does not mean they are instincts that you are either born with or not.

Think about these "second nature" skills that everyone here has: walking, talking, reading, writing, typing. All of these were learned by doing and involved a lot of mistakes and conscious thinking at first, but all are done daily with hardly any thinking at all.

What would you say to someone who had a hard time with one of these skills and was afraid to try to improve them?

I'm now staying away from it all. Those "bad" experiences, if anything, VINDICATED the fact that indeed, my "fear" of people (SA) was "rational" and "justified", given my complete lack of social skills.

I cannot even begin to describe how deeply embedded in your own bullshit this is. And I say that with sincere sympathy as someone who once felt exactly the same way. This process of rationalization and avoidance is a far worse aspect of SA than the anxiety itself, because it not only perpetuates the anxiety, but makes it worse over time.

If all you ever do is retreat from what you're afraid of, you're never going to lose the fear, and the world that you feel comfortable in will only ever shrink. Sure, sometimes you just can't deal with the fear and discomfort right now, so you avoid, and that's ok. But it is crucial that you not trick yourself into thinking that this is a good thing, or preferable to actually dealing with the problem and improving.

 

[no1]

there's more...

if I was to be put in a social situation, I would simply NOT KNOW how to handle it. I would NOT KNOW how to carry on a conversation, at least about things that are not too common with others interests (as I do). I would end up NOT learning anything. Not learning anything new at least.

That is why.. simple cold socializing does not help. Cold approaches don't really help too much if people are judging you based on a first impression. It takes time getting to know a person, any person. you can't expect that just any person will be willing to help based on a first impression because most people are not even helpful.

Alright? I need someone to help me to gain specific knowledge as regards with social skills, and someone who has had the same EXACT mindstate I do, as regards my opinions of this world, etc. Conspiracy minded folks, spiritual minded folks, pretty much the type of folks that are VERY RARE.

I am a really different person from most. I simply cannot get along with the fact that most if not everyone believes in lies.

 

[Lorraine Manca]

Yeah, when I first read that social anxiety thoughts were labeled irrational, I didnt rub me right either. If you or me arent socializing, overcompensating in academics is the first choice, at least for me. Hence, sa thoughts of many reclusive people should be more rational than most! Funny, huh?
Its pretty awful when your fears are validated. Ever heard the horrible question, "Are you ok?" when your're out in public? I would hear that when I thought i was doing a pretty good job at staying calm. So you start out thinking no one can read you, and come home knowing quite a few can. Somehow though, people stopped asking that question. So you just have to get out there and trust that a gradual change is happening, even if its a painful one.
For me its a rational fact that I will never be able to converse in 90% of situations, regardless of comfort level. How can you relate to people who live a completely different life style? On a positive note, learning to listen alleviates the problem. If Im forced into a social situation, I go find a gabber and ask them about their profession.
To the person who posted this thing, you dont have to instantaneously change. "just do" very little things. Its not an all or nothing kind of thing, even though it seems like it when the low moods come along.

 

[sorrow1]

Social skills can deffinately be learnt but with any skill it takes a bit of natural talent aswell. Like anything, sport, music or socialising some people have a gift for it and will be better than others but the people without the natural talent just have to work a bit harder. Plunging yourself into big social situations is not going to help. Again like anything, sport, music etc if you start at the deepend your always gonna get beat and youll loose confidence and feel like quitting, and thats not gonna help.You gotta start at the beginning and build. Try practising in small anxiety situations like one one conv's with strangers that you know youll never see again, or alternatively there are books and videos that teach you small talk and such, though personally I think theres only so much you can learn from reading books. However if its what you really want you gotta work for it, or alternatvely just accept that your never gonna have great social skills and be happy just being yourself. (not everyone can be great at everything) but i know thats easier said than done.
Dont loose hope though because there are many people who have gotten over this and helped themselves. Youve all still got lots of time to learn.

Damn im not very good at tryng to write helpful and positive posts.

 

[sabbath9]

We don't need no stinkin' social skills, just be nice