Have you tried praying for a friend?

[Bronson99]

I don't like trying new things, or meeting new people, so that could be why i usually hesitate to take strong risk/action with women. I usually wait until i've seen them a number of times (eg in a shop), and then MAYBE i TRY to take some action, but usually i don't.
That's really what my Work or Play??? thread is about: how i make choices as to what to do or not do; in my case it's quite dysfunctional, as i stick to routine, never take risks (risk-averse), avoid change, etc. But those things apparently are common to people with Aspergers; they certainly fit me like a glove, and keep me "safe"; otherwise i get severly stressed.

One thing's for sure - my way doesn't work. So i need to change how i operate, somehow, if i ever want any luck at all with women.

Yeah, this is the same for me, 100% the same, except I tried things in real life even less than you did.

This is one of the very worst things about autism... almost anything in the "social realm" and ESPECIALLY pertaining to romantic/sensual escapades.. is ridiculously, incredibly more difficult than it is for someone without autism. The pain and self-loathing that comes from it.. the uncertainty.. I wish other folks could understand what it is like, if nothing else.

How is it the token advice of your average guy, "just put yourself out there" has worked for them? In giving that advice, did they forget to include the part "expect to be rejected all the time, every day, everywhere"? They act like it's not a big deal, even. How is that not a big deal?

I have a few ideas of how to get past this massive overreactivity that comes with trying anything in this realm... the most important is you have to be ridiculously healthy, with LOTS of exercise.. every day.. in order to stabilize mental health. I haven't been able to do that.. only some of it. For me I think it has to literally be exercising for a minimum of 2 hours every day.. with different types of workouts. You may need the same.

The second idea is maybe some kinds of medications may help to reduce overthinking or blunt emotional pain. At a certain point, I mean, it may have to be forced on you if nothing else works. Interestingly, I have found a specific kind of Magnesium supplement that helps to reduce rumination and it's invaluable for various reasons. Will give more detail if requested.

And that's the way it goes for an autistic guy, for those of you who don't know what it's like. Not saying those with just SA or other conditions don't have similar issues, nor am I saying rejection sensitivity is important in the grand scheme of things... but it does still suck.

 

[AtTheGates]

Disagreement is fine, it's just I'm still surprised I can't get you to come around and agree that it *may* be a valid viewpoint.

I've talked to other *women* online who thought the same way about it. They didn't want some "serious LTR" anymore, but at the same time did not want to be celibate for the rest of their life.

I don't see what is so wrong about that.

what I'm getting at is that people dont even have to AGREE that its a valid viewpoint. I dont agree with it and thats just where I stand. in my opinion what you are talking about is morally wrong but its not technically illegal.

if people want to have sex with whoever then thats fine ...but theres a definition for that.



on the other hand here's an example of people blurring the lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zjh48PbPdM


there are some people who call this "sex therapy" but the thing is, HERE IN AMERICA what they are referring to is known as PROSTITUTION ..they can call it whatever they want, change the definition around but at the end of the day it doesnt change what it ACTUALLY is. Hiring a woman to have sex with your husband IS prostitution regardless of the fact that they want to define it as "sexual healing"


people have known for centuries that promiscuity and/or having multiple partners and being irresponsible with their sexuality is screwed up. That hasn't changed . it all leads to unwanted pregnancies, abortion, STD's (like AIDS), people objectifying women, people monetizing sex, and much more.

our society isnt going to change every time people's feelings are hurt or they're just offended. positive culture values that stand for the good of all mankind need to remain the same. people can get mad all they want.

 

[Sacrament]

if people want to have sex with whoever then thats fine ...but theres a definition for that.

What definition is that?

 

[AtTheGates]

What definition is that?

Some people might get offended if I say it, so lets just skip that.

 

[PugofCrydee]

positive culture values that stand for the good of all mankind need to remain the same. people can get mad all they want.

Annnd you're saying Christian (and/or) religious 'culture values' stand for the good of all mankind?

 

[AtTheGates]

Annnd you're saying Christian (and/or) religious 'culture values' stand for the good of all mankind?

yes (actually I meant CULTURAL values) ..at its foundation, christian values represent the good of all man kind

and I'm not talking about minority denominations like westeboro baptist church or anything like that . Im saying that OVERALL christian values have a positive impact on the world ...its like a moral compass in a society where many people seem to not care much about whats right or wrong.

for example, the concept of the seven sins and the seven virtues is actually pretty solid . The status quo generally doesnt seem to reflect it much though considering the fact that everything seems to be sexualized these days (among other reasons) . a lot of people pretty much just follow along with whatever mainstream media feeds them even if its garbage.

At its foundation , christianity is actually a good thing but people always sh!t all over it.

 

[PugofCrydee]

yes (actually I meant CULTURAL values) ..at its foundation, christian values represent the good of all man kind

and I'm not talking about minority denominations like westeboro baptist church or anything like that . Im saying that OVERALL christian values have a positive impact on the world ...its like a moral compass in a society where many people seem to not care much about whats right or wrong.

for example, the concept of the seven sins and the seven virtues is actually pretty solid . The status quo generally doesnt seem to reflect it much though considering the fact that everything seems to be sexualized these days (among other reasons) . a lot of people pretty much just follow along with whatever mainstream media feeds them even if its garbage.

At its foundation , christianity is actually a good thing but people always sh!t all over it.

Well, I have to say I disagree. I know plenty of non religious people who are decent and good people. I know a lot of religious people who are quite the opposite.

Religious scripture is so full of contradictions and double standards. If you actually read the bible then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
But most 'Christians' in fact, cherry pick the 'nice' parts. The parts that suit them. Then over time, when things in the bible become unacceptable to mainstream society, they write an updated version to try and stay relevant.

Slavery, infanticide, persecution, genocide and plain old murder are just a few of the things to be endorsed by the bible (or more so, the men that wrote it).
Money is power, the Church is one of the richest organizations on earth.

The church used to say 'money is the root of all evil'..

Funny how they no longer say that.:thinking:

 

[AtTheGates]

Well, I have to say I disagree. I know plenty of non religious people who are decent and good people. I know a lot of religious people who are quite the opposite.

Religious scripture is so full of contradictions and double standards. If you actually read the bible then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
But most 'Christians' in fact, cherry pick the 'nice' parts. The parts that suit them. Then over time, when things in the bible become unacceptable to mainstream society, they write an updated version to try and stay relevant.

Slavery, infanticide, persecution, genocide and plain old murder are just a few of the things to be endorsed by the bible (or more so, the men that wrote it).
Money is power, the Church is one of the richest organizations on earth.

The church used to say 'money is the root of all evil'..

Funny how they no longer say that.:thinking:

the bible was written by many different people . Jesus didnt write it.. The old testament was written before jesus was even born and the definition of christianity is the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ....(hence the CHRIST part in CHRISTianity) . Thats why I said at its foundation, christianity is a good thing. for example , infanticide was just something that occurred in the ancient world. it wasnt rooted in christianity , It was just an everyday thing because of the fact that it was completely legal in the roman empire. I think it can be argued that the world was just screwed up back then and christianity is NOT to blame for that.

another example is in India, widows were voluntarily or involuntarily burned on their husbands' funeral pyres. Christian missionaries were a major influence in stopping these century-old practices and ideas. Thats just one of MANY ways that people the world over have benefited from christianity.

Moving on, The church IS one of the richest organizations of the world and thats also why they're one of the most charitable . In 2010 the catholic church gave over 4.2 billion dollars in charity . as an organization they are able to GIVE a lot because they HAVE alot. If they just spent it all on themselves that would be different .

but at the end of the day, I can't speak for EVERY single last christian out there.

I feel like iv had this conversation a hundred times with people who just hate christianity and refuse to see anything good in it...and if you want to mention persecution, christianity is the most persecuted religious group in the world today. Contrary to what people might think.

...but its also the predominant religion in america as well as the whole world in general and thats not a coincidence . Christianity has lasted for almost 2,000 years and clearly its not going anywhere.


it CAN be a very progressive religion in many aspects but thats actually a GOOD thing as long as it sticks to its foundations (i.e. the teachings of jesus christ.). Similar to how the constitution being amended over the years has been a good thing. Times change and people move forward with it the best they can.

like I said though, iv had this conversation many times with people who could care less about christianity and would just prefer to rip it apart completly...


and now someone will probably bring up the crusades and i'll have to delve into that as well -_-

 

[Sacrament]

its possible that because there is ALOT of people in he world that need help, god can't be everywhere at once. So sometimes PEOPLE have to do what they can to help each other . its interesting though when people feel like prayer hasn't personally worked for THEM so they think that its phony ,while not considering the fact that ALOT of people have been helped by prayer and christianity in general. at this exact moment I guarantee you that there is someone hanging on to life in a hospital or correctional institution ONLY because of the fact that they believe in god...thats the only thing that gives them the motivation to keep pushing forward, without that they might have killed themself ...and for the terminally ill patients that died, at LEAST they died knowing that everything would be ok (instead of being afraid) because they had faith that god will catch them when they pass through to the other side.

.... There were guys were I worked that wanted to see the chaplin almost EVERY day and didnt seem to care for much else. I guess they were just in a place in their life where they REALLY needed that.

organized religion may not be for everyone (I personally am not TOO big of a fan of it.. especially denominations that convince people that they shouldn't have free will and should only follow god's will instead)

but by and large , christianity in general has helped ALOT of people. it might help you too someday, whether you choose to realize it or not.

I mean its like I dont need an inhaler because I dont have asthma ....but I know that other people DO so I keep one in my car. Thats partly how I feel about prayer and christianity:I dont always need it and sometimes I myself have doubts..but its helped me before and iv SEEN it help other people too . So I keep believing .

Are you... are you serious?

 

[AtTheGates]

Are you... are you serious?

uhhhh..yeah..I am.

and at this point if all you're doing is just trolling then dont bother. If you have a valid point to make then go ahead . iv said my piece. if you dont like it then oh well. I mean if you just despise christianity or religion in general then theres no point in having a discussion about it.

 

[Hot_Tamale]

I don't agree with ATG's comment that someone right now is ONLY hanging to life because they believe in God. There is something to be said for professional medical care (ie life support) for keeping someone's heart beating.

I'm a Christian too and I can back up ATG when he says prayer/Christianity helps people whether they realize it or not. I've been a audio/visual technician (volunteer) for my church for 8 years and I have seen with my own eyes people with stage 4 cancer being prayed over during service and coming back 2 weeks later saying the doctor has no rational explanation for why they can't find anything wrong with them. One man, more or less 6 months ago, stood in front of the church auditorium with minor bruises after he had been in a car crash. He showed a picture of his car flipped upside down with the top squished flat.

Oh...and just one other thing, even stone cold atheists and Satan worshipers have to admit hundreds of hospitals and natural disaster relief efforts have been erected in the name of the Catholic Church or the Christian Church. I'd like to see Hinduism or Islamists say that (no offense to any Hinduists/Buddhists). Whether or not that's what ATG means by saying "Christianity helps people whether they realize it or not... " I dunno. Proof is in the pudding in that fact though.

Again...not forcing my world views on anyone, just providing an alternate opinion to the discussion. Keep it clean please.

 

[AtTheGates]

I don't agree with ATG's comment that someone right now is ONLY hanging to life because they believe in God. There is something to be said for professional medical care (ie life support) for keeping someone's heart beating.

I meant more along the lines of motivation. Like people getting strength from their faith even when they feel like giving up/committing suicide. I agree though, Life support is important as well as medical treatments for terminal illness but so is the motivation to not give up and basically say "screw it..I dont care anymore" and then just stop getting treatment .

My mom works at a hospital school and so she mentions stuff about that from time to time . She often works with anorexic teenagers and many of them are hyper-critical of themselves due to some of societies standards of beauty ...in a situation like that I think theres something to be said about seeing yourself through god's eyes instead of through some kind of shallow perspective that is often prevalent in society (like when that "box gap" trend was going around)

not to mention, in a situation where a patient KNOWS they are going to die and only has about 6 months to live, its more comforting for them to know that there is someone waiting for them on the other side and that everything is going to be ok...as opposed to thinking that there is no god..which can be a very frightening thought for someone on their death bed.

I agree with you for the most part , definitely no ones world views should be forced on anyone but simply expressing is another story. Theres a lot of screwed up perceptions in society today that could stand to be at least SLIGHTLY challenged as long as theres a good reason for it.

 

[PugofCrydee]

its more comforting for them to know that there is someone waiting for them on the other side and that everything is going to be ok...as opposed to thinking that there is no god..which can be a very frightening thought for someone on their death bed.

And there we have it in a nutshell. That's why some people believe in the 'god' tale. It gives them comfort in the thought of death. Unfortunately the thought of some dreamt up comfort story which makes you feel at peace doesn't make it true.

I don't believe in higher beings. I believe in nature and the workings of the natural process of the universe. Science is helping us understand what's happening all around us and we are ever increasing our knowledge because of it.
If the workings of your 'god' are what you rely upon to understand and explain the world around us, then it is an ever receding pocket of knowledge as we come to understand the world through science.

I enjoy debating this topic, so please don't take offence at what I write.
I often hear the comment 'you can't prove god isn't real'.

No I cant. But neither can you prove the flying spaghetti monster isn't real.raying:

 

[AtTheGates]

And there we have it in a nutshell. That's why some people believe in the 'god' tale. It gives them comfort in the thought of death. Unfortunately the thought of some dreamt up comfort story which makes you feel at peace doesn't make it true.

I don't believe in higher beings. I believe in nature and the workings of the natural process of the universe. Science is helping us understand what's happening all around us and we are ever increasing our knowledge because of it.
If the workings of your 'god' are what you rely upon to understand and explain the world around us, then it is an ever receding pocket of knowledge as we come to understand the world through science.

I enjoy debating this topic, so please don't take offence at what I write.
I often hear the comment 'you can't prove god isn't real'.

No I cant. But neither can you prove the flying spaghetti monster isn't real.raying:

well we have very different beliefs but i also agree with respecting the earth in general....Theres actually a lot of symbolism based on that in LOTR..but thats a different topic I suppose.

. I agree that science has done amazing things for humanity but its also done some pretty screwed up things as well. like the invention of mustard gas, zyklon B, pretty much all of abortion in general, nuclear fission used as a weapon. In many aspects christianity is like a moral compass for society . When the foundations of christianity are applied in tandem with science and medicine amazing things can happen. Even the origin of hospitals and hospices is actually ROOTED in christianity (i.e. Saint Sampson, also known as sampson the hospitable)


and then you have the flip side of the coin where religion has been used as a cruel political tool (like what ISIS has been doing with islam recently and what happened during the crusades) and , as a mentioned earlier, science has been used as a weapon . THOSE two things in tandem are devastating to humanity. science CAN be very detrimental if applied without a moral compass.


True, no one can currently prove that god is real but think about this: No one was aware of microbial life until the microscope was invented ..until then, cells and microbes were completely invisible to the naked eye.

 

[Bo592]

I believe in ghosts because I had my own experiences and wittness them. That what lead me to believe in God.

 

[Bronson99]

True, no one can currently prove that god is real but think about this: No one was aware of microbial life until the microscope was invented ..until then, cells and microbes were completely invisible to the naked eye.

Perhaps this is a simplistic or incorrect interpretation of what you have written here, but do you actually imply here that you think (eventually) objective evidence for God will be found? Expound please

 

[AtTheGates]

Perhaps this is a simplistic or incorrect interpretation of what you have written here, but do you actually imply here that you think (eventually) objective evidence for God will be found? Expound please

yes it could be possible but no I dont know how. a century ago if you had told someone you'd be typing on a laptop on the internet someday they'd have no idea what you were talking about and they'd probably think you were crazy. ...ALOT of technological advancements have taken place since then..

anyway, iv made my point multiple times but if people still want to completely rule out the existence of god then well, thats their choice. This conversation could go on forever and just end up basically going in circles because there is currently no conclusive evidence as to whether god DOES or does NOT exist...




other than that though, if christianity wasnt beneficial to mankind then it wouldnt be the predominant religion in the world today. Thats not just a coincidence . If it was really as bad or as useless as some people say it is then it wouldnt still be the main religion of the entire planet .

 

[PugofCrydee]

In many aspects christianity is like a moral compass for society . When the foundations of christianity are applied in tandem with science and medicine amazing things can happen. Even the origin of hospitals and hospices is actually ROOTED in christianity (i.e. Saint Sampson, also known as sampson the hospitable)

I believe people can be good decent people without having 'threats' hanging over their heads. I consider myself a good person, I've never hurt anyone and I will always help those in need if I'm able to do so. Yet I'm not religious. Do I 'need' a moral compass in the form of Christian values too?
There are non religious groups who do great things for their communities by their own desire and will. These people do these things not out of fear of not being good enough for their god and going to 'hell' (a place your god apparently made for you in case you don't live by his rules) but instead because they simply wish to be good to others.

People can be good people not because of a set of rules imposed upon them, they can be good if they want to be good people. Simple. If you prefer to have a set of rules under the guise of a god making them for you, then so long as you don't hurt others in any way - financially, emotionally, physically etc - then I'm all for it.

We need more good people in this world. Not more stories that make us feel as though we're under pressure to live a life out of fear.

Question 1;
Why would a 'god' that supposedly loves you, make a place of fire for you to burn in eternally - just in case you don't return his love and live by his/her rules?

Question 2;
There have been some 4000 'gods' believed in by people during our species since we lived in caves to now. What makes your version of a god - and in your beliefs 'the right one' - compared to those who believed in say, Medusa, Ra or Hades?

:thinking:

 

[AtTheGates]

I believe people can be good decent people without having 'threats' hanging over their heads. I consider myself a good person, I've never hurt anyone and I will always help those in need if I'm able to do so. Yet I'm not religious. Do I 'need' a moral compass in the form of Christian values too?
There are non religious groups who do great things for their communities by their own desire and will. These people do these things not out of fear of not being good enough for their god and going to 'hell' (a place your god apparently made for you in case you don't live by his rules) but instead because they simply wish to be good to others.

People can be good people not because of a set of rules imposed upon them, they can be good if they want to be good people. Simple. If you prefer to have a set of rules under the guise of a god making them for you, then so long as you don't hurt others in any way - financially, emotionally, physically etc - then I'm all for it.

We need more good people in this world. Not more stories that make us feel as though we're under pressure to live a life out of fear.

Question 1;
Why would a 'god' that supposedly loves you, make a place of fire for you to burn in eternally - just in case you don't return his love and live by his/her rules?

Question 2;
There have been some 4000 'gods' believed in by people during our species since we lived in caves to now. What makes your version of a god - and in your beliefs 'the right one' - compared to those who believed in say, Medusa, Ra or Hades?

:thinking:

well....I could take more time out of my day to knock all these questions out of park but then people would just bring up more and MORE questions while disregarding everything that iv already said. I'v had this conversation before with atheists and it generally keeps going in circles.



actually ....ok fine ill do it.


if you're referring to hell I hope we can both agree that "thou shalt not kill" is a good thing to believe in....and if someone kills people then maybe something bad should happen to them....or else there would be a lot more murder in general ....its common sense really, some people dont care about laws one bit (or even understand why they exist).....but they DO care about their soul...that part of the reason why having a GOOD core belief system is VERY important in society.

, Before Constantine popularized christianity the roman empire had whats known as an Imperial cult . its basically where the leaders would convince people that they themselves were living gods . The ancient egyptians also did this...In a way,Kim Jong il did it too...if THAT doesnt sound screwed up to you then I dont think we're going to agree on much of ANYTHING. Im not saying that christianity becoming predominant in the roman empire changed EVERYTHING but it ruled out some screwed up things that were going on (like imperial cults). Constantine also was the first emperor to establish hospitals all across the roman empire and this was due to his belief in christianity ...People eventually just realized that christianity was the better choice ..

fast forward to now and you'll see that most of the kinks have been ironed out (many of which were due to correct people/leaders and not christianity itself) and Christianity has risen to the top of all other religions, with over 2.2 billion adherents worldwide ...but i'll let YOU be the judge as to why that is. we'll likely disagree on that though.

SO you might also want to consider that some of the ways you consider yourself to be a good person might be rooted in christiatny . christian values have been ingrained into many cultures across the world for a LOOOOOOONG time....Before the settlers (mainly referring to the British) set up colonies in australia people were living in tribes in the desert, constantly waring with each other, and raping the women of their tribes..... and literally eating each other .yes I'm talking about cannibalism, among other strange things aborigines did that civilized people might be sickened by today...

The british brought christian missionaries who educated people with christian morals and values and, over time, those values have become ingrained in the culture .


and yes there was also violence that took place but christianity as a belief can't really be blamed for that because unfortunately the british also brought their guns and man power to australia and some of them used christianity as a political tool...some horrible things ended up happening but ,again, christianity is not to blame for that..PEOPLE are ....

but MOST missionaries just wanted to spread the teachings of jesus so that MAYBE people would understand how to live a better life....one that doesnt involve raping the women of their tribe as some kind of "traditional right" .

The same could be said for the spanish when they came to America..there were a lot of christian missionaries they brought with them who ended up getting murdered in cold blood by natives tribes...not to mention , many of those tribes were enslaving other tribes and sacrificing them to some kind of sun god



idk about you but I'm SO glad that christianity was ingrained into american culture over the years .....or else THIS might still be a thing ...


https://www.amren.com/news/2013/08/...would-ride-1000-miles-to-wipe-out-one-family/

AND this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG8WqEyXIyc

the spread of christian values, traditions , and beliefs pretty much superseded this kind of stuff.

 

[FountainandFairfax]

I've had this conversation before with atheists and it generally keeps going in circles.

It always does.

Some people have faith and some don't. :idontknow: