Christian people

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LA-girl

Well-known member
#1
About christian people:

I am a type of person that no-one would think would be a christian. I do not mesh well with the typical christians either. But it is truly dangerous to stigmatize groups of people of being in a certain way. I'm no different, I sometimes do this myself, I even did it in this reply. But we do not have to hang around other christians in order to believe in Jesus and be a "christan." You do not have to attend meetings, go to church etc in order to be a christian. (I don't) You do not even have to read the Bible all that much, although it's preferable. The most important thing is to believe in Jesus.
Stigmatizing Christians are just as bad as stigmatizing all kind of groups including SOCIAL PHOBICS!

Even though I don't like being around most christian people (Not because of my SA) I can still belive in Jesus and be a christian!

I think many people who are non-christians don't want to be christians because they don't want to act, be like or hang out with other christians.
Well, you don't!
You can still be yourself with all your flaws, all your interests, opinions, hang out with all your non-christian friends and still be a christian!!
You don't have to be a saint to be a christian, no-one is!

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BELIEVE. THAT'S IT. PERIOD.


(By this I mean you don't have to do anything else in order to be a christian in my opinion)
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#2
Why try to control our thoughts? Would you not like us to think what we wish about Christians?

I mean, to be a Christian you have to be the kind of person capable of reading the Bible and finding its teachings to be plausible, right? Why should a non-Christian not draw conclusions about such a person?
 
#3
I go to a christian school so I hang a good deal with christians.

I think most of these people are OK, but I can't say I really like the christianity side of them It's not stigmatizing. EVERYONE prefer people who are more like themselves, that they have something in common with. It's natural.

For my part I think a good deal of christians can be nice persons but they tend to be backward-thinking, conservative, and narrowminded. Liberal christians are for most part very nice and usually aren't narrowminded and intolerant.

There's some christian values(whether they are christian varies to the intereptation) that I cannot stand. First is probably that men should be dominant and decide. Why can't women be leaders? There is alos a good deal of things that I've read the bible says is wrong, the most known of these are probably the condemnation of homosexuality. I have seen people suffer so much because of homophobia. Let people be themselves! And then there's the idea of hell. From a christian point of view I could say this "If you don't believe what I belive you're going to hell!". I've never heard a christian said this directly, but I've heard it over and over again indirectly.

Now wheter these are christian values or not is a big discussion among christians, but they are certanly values among most conservative christians. I do tolerate people being different and having differnet valaues, I don't the rest of the person based on this, but I think having such values definitly is negative and contributes negativily to the overall of a person.

But as I said, I go to a christian school and I know plenty nice christian people...
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
#4
Or believe that he was the Son of God, & God ?!!
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (Jn.3:16)...

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (Jn.5:24).

Jesus existed, that is a historical fact. But in order to be a christian you must belive that Jesus is the son of God and that he was sent to earth as a human in order to take all the sins, for all humans from Adam to the last humanbeing living on this earth, upon him.

In my opinion:
To be a christian means believing:
Jesus is son of God and died for our sins.
It's just that simple!!
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#5
To be a christian means beliving:
Jesus is son of God and died for our sins.
It is just that simple!!
Like, the death of Jesus was some kind of human sacrifice -- a blood bribe -- of an omnipotent being in order to secure the forebearance of his destruction of us?

And what if I wish to believe that God's nature is always to forgive, and that he doesn't need guys hanging on crosses with blood dripping and all that weird stuff in order to find it in his heart not to destroy us?
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
#6
Zipper said:
Why try to control our thoughts? Would you not like us to think what we wish about Christians?

I mean, to be a Christian you have to be the kind of person capable of reading the Bible and finding its teachings to be plausible, right? Why should a non-Christian not draw conclusions about such a person?
First of all I'm not trying to control your thoughts. I'm saying that we should try to have an open mind about christian people as well as other groups of people. I have a hard time doing this myself sometimes, so I'm not judging anyone. Like I'm saying although I am a christian I don't attend meetings, go to church nor read the Bible very often (I can't honestly remember last time I did). The important thing is like I've said so many times, is believing. I wrote some replies under your poll, maybe you understand some more about what I'm saying if you read them. It's up to you!

For instance, you have probably heard about the thief who was cruzified next to Jesus. He had been a sinner and non-believer all his life until the last seconds before he died. All he did for the last seconds before his death was to acknowledge and believe that Jesus was the son of God who died for our sins! Jesus said to this believing one, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise!"

They nailed Him to a cross between two thieves. One thief said: "If you are the Son of God, save yourself and us too." He was unbelieving. The other thief believed. He said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus said to this believing one, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise!" This thief believed that Jesus was the Son of God. He believed Jesus was a just man. He believed Jesus would rise again. He believed God's report about His Son.
 

Mary

Well-known member
#7
The nature of God is forgiveness and love but He is also just and righteous. Think about it, we wouldn't want to live in a world where there was no laws, would we? Where people could go around hurting ea. other with out any consequence. What if I murdered someone and had to go before a judge to pay for what I did, what if the judge said, oh I forgive you, you are free to go. The public outcry would be huge! People would line up to have that judge disbarred.
But that is what we want God to do. Ignore our sin, let it go unpunished. God is just, he can't ignore sin. It's not who He is. But because He loved us so much, he sent us a substitute. Someone who was innocent to pay the penalty for the guilty..Jesus. God had to send His son to die on the cross because it was the only way to satisfy His justice. If there was no punishment, God wouldn't be a good judge. He wouldn't be good at all.
He didn't have to send us Jesus, but because He loved us He did. All that He asks us to do is accept what He did for us. If I offered you a gift, you could accept it or reject it. It's up to you. The same w/Jesus, you can accept him or reject him. If you were standing before a judge about to be sentenced for your sins and the judge offered you someone to take your place, why wouldn't you? Yet that is what God does daily for us.
 

Mary

Well-known member
#8
I was using the judge thing as an example. No one here on earth has the power to forgive sin except God.
He is the creator of all things and Has power over all things. He alone has the power to forgive sin. And although this may shock you, If Jack the ripper had repented (from his heart) God would have forgiven him. Would I have forgiven Jack the riper? No, but I am not God. Only God can look into a person's heart and see if there was true repentence and only He can offer forgiveness.
Don't get mad at me I didn't write the bible, God did.
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#9
Mary said:
Don't get mad at me I didn't write the bible, God did.
Or so you believe based on the evidence.

See, this is what I am talking about. Why shouldn't Pagans draw conclusions about a person capable of finding it plausible that God spoke the Bible?
 

Mary

Well-known member
#10
I have a question for you zipper and I swear I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm just curious. Exactly what do you believe? How do you think people came to exist in this world?

I know all the "scientific" answers about how we come fr. monkeys and the big bang theory and to me, that requires a lot more faith to believe.
For me, personally, the heaveans cry out of God's existence, the world and all it's wonders speak of Him, and last but not least, I have felt His
presence. You can't feel His presence and ever doubt again. You just can't.
 

Mary

Well-known member
#11
I have a question for you zipper and I swear I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm just curious. Exactly what do you believe? How do you think people came to exist in this world?

I know all the "scientific" answers about how we come fr. monkeys and the big bang theory and to me, that requires a lot more faith to believe.
For me, personally, the heaveans cry out of God's existence, the world and all it's wonders speak of Him, and last but not least, I have felt His
presence. You can't feel His presence and ever doubt again. You just can't.
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#12
I don't know. I don't know if there is a God. I hope that there is, but I also have faith that the Bible has nothing to do with him, because it is so horrible to imagine a God like that who would visit destruction on other persons.

You know, right, that you can believe in God and still deny Christianity? There are like millions of sacred texts in the world and thousands of different religions each with their own statements of God.

I know it is very difficult to wrap a mind around this, but support for the idea of God is not support for the Christian theology.
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
#13
TLZ wrote:
The whole concept of heaven and hell is one of many many concept created by religion to scare people into believing.
I can not speak for every Christian person out there, but I can speak for myself. What would I gain to scare people into believing?? Except for humiliation and ugly replies from some non-Christians. Like Mary said, we have SA, which means we fear negative criticism. So why do I bother you might think?
Well, lets say that you firmly believed in something that could help and save others, wouldn’t you feel obligated to speak out about this so that the ones who read it can make up their own minds whether they want to share the same belief or not? I had the choice to keep my mouth shut (or my fingers still) in order to avoid the discomfort of all these negative replies… But then I would simply be a coward, wouldn’t I….?
One persons belief can seem bizarre to another but we should be able to discuss our own and others beliefs without fear and judgement! (I’m not talking about you TLZ because of your quote!)
Because I disagree with another's belief and visa versa should not cause suffering to him/her or me.
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
#14
There has been some confusion here about who wrote the bible.
Here is one explanation:

Who wrote the bible


The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers

“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.

The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span.

The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.


http://www.allabouttruth.org/who-wrote-the-bible.htm
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#15
LA-girl said:
I can not speak for every Christian person out there, but I can speak for myself. What would I gain to scare people into believing?? Except for humiliation and ugly replies from some non-Christians. Well, lets say that you firmly believed in something that could help and save others, wouldn’t you feel obligated to speak out about this so that the ones who read it can make up their own minds whether they want to share the same belief or not?
I know exactly what it is I am rejecting. You personally believe that the only way to unite with God in the eternal world is to be "justified by faith" -- pardoned of the divine penalty for the violation of God's law by believing that Christ bore it on the cross.

The problem is that there is no divine penalty for the violation of God's law. None. You aren't doing people favors by trying to get them "saved" from a threat that does not even exist. You may believe that it exists, but wishing it to be true, or fearing that it may be true does not make it so.

But fear is contagious, and indeed, if you believe that Muslims will not be united to God after they die, then you will try to convince us that God requites wrong with destruction upon the human or Christ as atonement for those who are converted.

It's not so much YOU that wishes this message to be spread, but it is the MESSAGE itself which wishes to conquer new minds, and it uses you to help it do so.

People react negatively to Christians sharing the "good news" of forebearance of divine destruction available only through cogitating about Christ for the very same reason that people react negatively when they are sneezed on. We try to wipe it off and we ask people to sneeze into their handkerchiefs, can you blame us?
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#16
Anybody who says that the Bible makes sense and is in total agreement concerning a clear message across all its books has never read the document. 50,000 Christian denominations all holding differing opinions of its meaning and anathematizing all others is proof enough that the thing doesn't make sense.

Likewise, the Prophesies come true are weak. Print up several thousand pages of random prose and you will likely produce as many prophetic statements that come true.

But the broader question you have to ask yourself, is: "How much evidence will be enough for you to become convinced of Biblical teaching that the operation of divine judgment is calculated to destroy the human (or Christ as atonement) rather than to correct?"

Some people are very eager to accept any document with a couple of good gimmicks in order to believe such things about God. I suppose Christianity is the reward that such people get. But don't press your gloomy theories about hell and human sacrifices on the rest of us, no matter how sincere and confused you are. The Bible is a chain letter, stop forwarding the message.
 

Mary

Well-known member
#17
Why is it that Christian's are told not to try and "force" their beliefs on people but other people can try to do just that? The person who doesn't believe is trying to force their belief on others when they talk about their beliefs.
As far as I know, nobody became a Christian because they were "forced"
into it. Christians don't have that power and God gives us free will to make our own choice.
I will not deny my faith, on the contrary. It has not added to my fears, it's not the "fear" message, it's the salvation message. It's the good news message. People who "fear" it when they hear it might feel that way because they think it might be true, and have not accepted Jesus as their
savior. But in my experience once you do, you have peace about it ,not fear.
For people who don't believe they need to be saved check this site out:
www.tenthousanddollaroffer.com
Try it and let me know how you did and what you think of it.
 

Zipper

Well-known member
#18
Mary said:
it's not the "fear" message, it's the salvation message.
Saved from what?
But in my experience once you do, you have peace about it ,not fear.
According to my poll on the other thread, 6 out of 8 Christians are made anxious by the thought of a God who requites wrong with destruction, -- even though their brains are cogitating through the rumination "Christ bore God's punishment for my sins on the cross." This theology makes people ill, have a little pity on us. If you are fine, congratulations, but not all people exhibit the symptoms of the herpes virus either.

Think deeply about the Bible's teaching about God's treatment of the unconverted, and then tell me how emotionally healthy you remain.
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
#19
Zipper wrote:
I know exactly what it is I am rejecting.
Reject it as much as you want. I have only told you what is my belief, and I would not dream of forcing any belief on anyone.
You can believe or reject it, but I'm still allowed to say what is my conviction. You might just hate it, but that will be your problem, not mine...
 

easy

Well-known member
#20
As far as I know, nobody became a Christian because they were "forced" into it.
I'm afraid you're wrong there. If I remember my history lessons right, then at the time where Europeans colonized and traveled over the world, they gave the people of the places they colonized the choice: die or accept our religion as true.
Besides that, in the past religion has been used to control the masses, just like the media are used like that now.


Do you understand that Jesus and God are nothing but ideas in your head? You have never met them. You have never seen them. You have only heard of them, read of them, thought of them.
It's nothing but blind faith. If you're honest you will have to admit this.

Let me put it this way: if Christianity, the idea of God (and Jesus), the Bible and the church did not exist, would you still believe in it? No, of course not!
 
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