Being a man

[Boby]

This is contrary to my experience. But everyone is different and some are more shallow than others. Still you cannot deny that there is pressure placed on women and their appearance, particularly in the media. Whether or not this pressure comes from men is irrelevant.

Pressure on appearance,yes.Pressure on being perfect,no definitely no.
I don't think there is a man who find a women unattractive if it's not perfect.Indeed man can get away with appearance while women usually can't but let's not exaggerate no one is looking for perfection.

 

[Flowers-Of-Bloom]

Pressure on appearance,yes.Pressure on being perfect,no definitely no.
I don't think there is a man who find a women unattractive if it's not perfect.Indeed man can get away with appearance while women usually can't but let's not exaggerate no one is looking for perfection.

Ok, yes, my original use of the word "perfect" was a hyperbole. All I meant was women trying to look as beautiful as possible because this is what society appears to value in them the most.

 

[Boby]

All I meant was women trying to look as beautiful as possible because this is what society appears to value in them the most.

Yes that's true but also to a certain extent,an intelligent man will not stay long around a women which is beautiful but stupid and even in society (at least the intelligent part of society) have very low regard for those kind of women.
So being beautiful is not everything, sure it's good ,but other trait's are needed to be considered a successful women.

 

[KiaKaha]

I hope I didnt start a gender war. I kind of new the risks as I was typing out that original post. I just want to say (for now) that I acknowledge that both genders have stereotypes and that neither gender has it 'easier' so to speak - thats an unfair statement. Women are pressured and judged on physical appearance, among other things - and that is a thread all on its own. We are all as bad and as superficial as each other - but it all must come from somewhere right..?

The reason I even bring this is up is merely stemming from my own self perceived belief that I dont live up to what is typically expected of a male - catastrophizing that because I am not an 'alpha' male type and that my own personal qualities are never going to be valid or worthy in the eyes of society - that I am.... simply not good enough.... for anything, and that I will always be alone in more ways than one.

I am trying to figure out why I dont seem to feel like I fit in.... but now I am rambling...

Anyway... I should probably get some sleep.

 

[AGR]

Open up this thread and see the truth,men also have preassure on appearence too,women have too,both have,it used to piss me off when people said we didnt yet everything around me points to otherwise.
This is the thread:
http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/do-you-have-any-celebrity-crushes-39384/

 

[Ambere]

I've found that most guys I know think it's unattractive to have an aggressive, outspoken woman because it immasculates them. Definitely gender roles are based on culture and general standards of what people like. However, eventually when people are looking for love sincerity and sentimentality are very important. I mean who wants a confident, good-looking, outgoing jerk. Not me

 

[MollyBeGood]

I hope I didnt start a gender war. I kind of new the risks as I was typing out that original post. I just want to say (for now) that I acknowledge that both genders have stereotypes and that neither gender has it 'easier' so to speak - thats an unfair statement. Women are pressured and judged on physical appearance, among other things - and that is a thread all on its own. We are all as bad and as superficial as each other - but it all must come from somewhere right..?

The reason I even bring this is up is merely stemming from my own self perceived belief that I dont live up to what is typically expected of a male - catastrophizing that because I am not an 'alpha' male type and that my own personal qualities are never going to be valid or worthy in the eyes of society - that I am.... simply not good enough.... for anything, and that I will always be alone in more ways than one.

I am trying to figure out why I dont seem to feel like I fit in.... but now I am rambling...

Anyway... I should probably get some sleep.

you're unique and not stereotypical and that to some woman is extremely attractive you just have to find/meet the right kind of women who appreciate you for who you are. It will happen when and where you least expect it probably not on a dating site.

 

[Boby]

Open up this thread and see the truth,men also have preassure on appearence too,women have too,both have,it used to piss me off when people said we didnt yet everything around me points to otherwise.
This is the thread:
http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/do-you-have-any-celebrity-crushes-39384/

Dude looking good as a man is a bonus not a must,if you have no game,no confidence,no guts you might even look like Brad Pitt but you won't get any girls.
Of course women want good looking guys too but as I said appearance is not a deal closer.
And I'm not talking without a base in reality because I have seen some really ugly guys having beautiful GF's but what all of those guys had in common was charisma and boldness.

 

[AGR]

Dude looking good as a man is a bonus not a must,if you have no game,no confidence,no guts you might even look like Brad Pitt but you won't get any girls.
Of course women want good looking guys too but as I said appearance is not a deal closer.
And I'm not talking without a base in reality because I have seen some really ugly guys having beautiful GF's but what all of those guys had in common was charisma and boldness.

it isnt a deal closer for girls either,I can say the same the other way around,I have seen girls who were not that pretty,overweight with good looking guys too.
Also I have no "game",no confidence and no guts,yet there were girls who liked me before,the only conclusion I can come is that they liked something about my appearence.

 

[Boby]

Also I have no "game",no confidence and no guts,yet there were girls who liked me before,the only conclusion I can come is that they liked something about my appearence.

Did you dated them ,made a move on them?I'm zero in confidence department and I met a lot of girls who liked me but I didn't made a move because my lack of confidence,so by default girls look for confidence since the man has to make the move.

Edit:What I'm trying to say is more unlikely for a man to date a ugly women while a man can compensate physical appearance with other traits confidence,charisma etc.

 

[AGR]

Did you dated them ,made a move on them?I'm zero in confidence department and I met a lot of girls who liked me but I didn't made a move because my lack of confidence,so by default girls look for confidence since the man has to make the move.

I didnt make any move,it was not lack of them trying either,I will tell you something,believe it or not,one person said I was the love of her life yet I barely even talked with her,another said she would accept me if I was a virgin,had a small weiner or if I had something wrong with my body which was really sweet of her,I barely talked much with any of those girls to me they clearly liked something about my appearance.

 

[Boby]

I didnt make any move,it was not lack of them trying either,I will tell you something,believe it or not,one person said I was the love of her life yet I barely even talked with her,another said she would accept me if I was a virgin,had a small weiner or if I had something wrong with my body which was really sweet of her,I barely talked much with any of those girls to me they clearly liked something about my appearance.

Lol that it's a bit weird ,I mean that's the first time I heard of something like that ,I guess culture plays a big role too ...in my country a girl telling something like that to a guy is totally unheard of.
Anyway what I'm telling is that things like what you just said are possible but a guy can win a girl heart even if she doesn't feel any particular physical attraction to him and no I'm not a ugly guy(at least that's what I think )defending myself but that's what I think is the order of things.

 

[AGR]

Not saying that its wrong as anyone can choose whats best for them,not saying I am really good looking either,but apparently to those girls I was,she didnt say it directly to me though,she said to her friends ,she was talking about me to them,I had a history of avoiding girls at that point and was avoiding her,she made sure that I was listening to it.

 

[doubleM]

i hate the whole alpha male stereotype. these guys that try to act like they are in charge all the time, show no emotion, only think about themselves, always talking **** at other people, treat women like crap, etc. i see through that whole attitude as being fake. i dont act that way, so i clash with guys that do. i cant act like that. i like to think more logically about things. i understand a man is expected to be strong and i try to be that.

theres one guy i know, hes always disrespecting me and insulting me. i tried to be nice to him. sometimes he was cool, then it got worse. hes one of those types who talks **** and never does anything, but he goes way too far. one day he called me a bitch and said i wasnt a man. i had enough and confronted him about it and he backed down. i told him i never wanted to see his face again.
my definition of a man is: a man takes care of himself, but he does so without hurting others. hes capable of putting other before himself. that is not weak, it takes strength to live like that. unfortunately, thats not society's definition of one. if you act that way you are labeled as weak or some sort of outcast. ive spent my whole life trying to be the good guy, trying to prove i was different from other guys, trying to be the hero, but with most women its not going to work.
what our society views as a desirable alpha male is a **** talking fake thug, with money spewing out of his pockets, driving a brand new lamborghini, spitting out the worst pick up lines youve ever heard. theres too many unrealistic expectations about men. if youre a man and you lack in those traits or you dont have swag, then you have little hope of getting dates. people dont realize how bad it really is.
ive completely give up all hope on women. but i will stick to my guns and be me and i will not allow fake alpha men to insult me.

 

[coyote]

i hate the whole alpha male stereotype. these guys that try to act like they are in charge all the time, show no emotion, only think about themselves, always talking **** at other people, treat women like crap, etc. i see through that whole attitude as being fake. i dont act that way, so i clash with guys that do. i cant act like that. i like to think more logically about things. i understand a man is expected to be strong and i try to be that.

theres one guy i know, hes always disrespecting me and insulting me. sometimes he was cool, then it got worse. hes one of those types who talks **** and never does anything, but he goes way too far. one day he called me a bitch and said i wasnt a man. i had enough and confronted him about it and he backed down. i told him i never wanted to see his face again.
my definition of a man is: a man takes care of himself, but he does so without hurting others. hes capable of putting other before himself. that is not weak, it takes strength to live like that. unfortunately, thats not society's definition of one. if you act that way you are labeled as weak or some sort of outcast. ive spent my whole life trying to be the good guy, trying to prove i was different from other guys, trying to be the hero, but with most women its not going to work.
what our society views as a desirable alpha male is a **** talking fake thug, with money spewing out of his pockets, driving a brand new lamborghini, spitting out the worst pick up lines youve ever heard. theres too many unrealistic expectations about men. if youre a man and you lack in those traits or you dont have swag, then you have little hope of getting dates. people dont realize how bad it really is.
ive completely give up all hope on women. but i will stick to my guns and be me and i will not allow fake alpha men to insult me.

i totally agree with your whole post

the interesting thing is that at some point in my life, i stopped living in that world

i'm not sure if it's geography or age, or perhaps the maturity of the people i associate with. maybe it's my social circle, status, class... i've been trying to figure that out since this thread started

but i do know that not ALL parts of society are like this

i keep wondering if it has to do with youth culture (everyone here is pretty young) - i remember when i was younger dealing with the whole locker room pissing match machismo mentality - but now that i'm older and the people i'm around are older and have more settled, responsible lives, no one seems to care about that crap

i keep wondering if it has to do with social class - working class versus academic, intellectual, or artistic environments - when i was in the military or driving a truck it was much different than when i was in art school, for instance

i keep wondering if it has to do with being in a predominately male environment versus being in a mixed or mostly female environment - again, much different when i was working in police and fire departments than when managing a clothing store with an all female staff

but whatever it is - it doesn't exist everywhere - i can vouch for that

 

[LifeInternal88]

I think shy guys are cute.

I also find it easier to talk to shy guys. Or shy people in general. I just have more stuff to say if I'm with someone who is also as calm/shy as I am. When I am with the outgoing types, my conversation skills drop

 

[Waybuloo]

Wouldn't it be great if we all accept that we can be less rigid regarding the supposed, conventional wisdom of gender conformity? I mean a guy is strong if he can stand up for what he believes in but is friendly and accepting of people because he's not afraid to be associated with gay people or go out with a fat person who others don't accept. Strong is not necessarily alpha male. A lot of people already doubt the ego of an alpha male. To me, he is someone who is immature and egotistical; the last thing he would be is strong.

For the record, somebody like my Dad, who people have not taken seriously because he's seen as a beta male with a safe job and family-orientated outlook and a kind heart, is a strong person in my eyes. He is strong because he's never backed down from his duties, lives for his family and has kept going after being battered by abusive people in his life.

 

[coyote]

Wouldn't it be great if we all accept that we can be less rigid regarding the supposed, conventional wisdom of gender conformity? I mean a guy is strong if he can stand up for what he believes in but is friendly and accepting of people because he's not afraid to be associated with gay people or go out with a fat person who others don't accept. Strong is not necessarily alpha male. A lot of people already doubt the ego of an alpha male. To me, he is someone who is immature and egotistical; the last thing he would be is strong.

For the record, somebody like my Dad, who people have not taken seriously because he's seen as a beta male with a safe job and family-orientated outlook and a kind heart, is a strong person in my eyes. He is strong because he's never backed down from his duties, lives for his family and has kept going after being battered by abusive people in his life.

yes, exactly

 

[LifeInternal88]

Wouldn't it be great if we all accept that we can be less rigid regarding the supposed, conventional wisdom of gender conformity? I mean a guy is strong if he can stand up for what he believes in but is friendly and accepting of people because he's not afraid to be associated with gay people or go out with a fat person who others don't accept. Strong is not necessarily alpha male. A lot of people already doubt the ego of an alpha male. To me, he is someone who is immature and egotistical; the last thing he would be is strong.

For the record, somebody like my Dad, who people have not taken seriously because he's seen as a beta male with a safe job and family-orientated outlook and a kind heart, is a strong person in my eyes. He is strong because he's never backed down from his duties, lives for his family and has kept going after being battered by abusive people in his life.

Agreed.

but whatever it is - it doesn't exist everywhere - i can vouch for that

Yea.

Maybe some of these guys need to change their environment, if that's posible.

 

[bleach]

i totally agree with your whole post

the interesting thing is that at some point in my life, i stopped living in that world

i'm not sure if it's geography or age, or perhaps the maturity of the people i associate with. maybe it's my social circle, status, class... i've been trying to figure that out since this thread started

but i do know that not ALL parts of society are like this

i keep wondering if it has to do with youth culture (everyone here is pretty young) - i remember when i was younger dealing with the whole locker room pissing match machismo mentality - but now that i'm older and the people i'm around are older and have more settled, responsible lives, no one seems to care about that crap

i keep wondering if it has to do with social class - working class versus academic, intellectual, or artistic environments - when i was in the military or driving a truck it was much different than when i was in art school, for instance

i keep wondering if it has to do with being in a predominately male environment versus being in a mixed or mostly female environment - again, much different when i was working in police and fire departments than when managing a clothing store with an all female staff

but whatever it is - it doesn't exist everywhere - i can vouch for that

well adolescence is getting longer with each generation and family values have imploded so I would expect to see that status-jockeying behavior stretching out later into life as time goes by