Srijita52
Well-known member
Agreed, you're really awesome Kia!
Arohanui - Ake Ake KiaKaha's Journal
- Thread starter KiaKaha
- Start date
KiaKaha
Banned
I wanted to write about a couple of things that have been on my mind lately. Simply as an expression of curiosity and frustration. Perhaps if I write it out I may have some flash of insight into why things are the way they are.
I find it interesting how the majority of people are so willing to take and accept a a social courtesy, but are unwilling to do the same for others.
Why is it people dont seem to have concern for the needs of others, yet when they are in a position of the same need themselves, they are quite willing to take it - when of course someone is nice enough to offer it to them. Why is it that empathy is not invoked for other people yet when they themselves have been in that same position previously they dont want to know? It doesn't make any sense to me.
For example someone who has been homeless in the past, condemning those who currently are homeless.
Here is one I can relate too - being the new person in some kind of unfamiliar environment. This one ALWAYS kills me. Every person is new at some point - lets say on... oh I dont know...an internet forum for example.... a peculiar phenomenon is that when you are new... nobody wants anything to do with you. Seriously. You are new... what people decide to do is instead of making you feel welcome to someone who is obviously unsure of themselves (because that is a natural reaction in entering an unfamiliar environment) they will ignore you completely...and stick to people that they already know.
Why do people do this? Why are people so unfriendly to those who are unfamiliar? How on earth does anybody anywhere get to know people if we are all so ridiculously offstandish and indifferent to people who we dont know already?
Yet the flip side is that at one point - THOSE people were new too...they went through exactly the same thing....they know how it feels to be new...yet, they wont extend a civil offer of warmth toward you. It's hypocritical and ridiculous.
Do you know what I would do if I saw someone who was obviously feeling left out and uncomfortable in a setting where everyone was cliquey... ? I would bowl on up to them and try to make them feel welcome. I would say try to make them feel like they were part of the club.
But do you know what ELSE annoys me about people and the way they interact with others?
Popularity, exclusivity and cliques. I really cant stand this stuff. I find it interesting how people are naturally drawn to people who are ALREADY popular. The alphas of the community. I see people agree and mooch and flock around people who are seemingly popular and have the status of those in a community who portray power and have some kind of established foothold. I see it online and I see it in the real world. It's interesting that people will ignore those who dont make them look good. It's like high school stuff... we all want to be associated with the cool kids....
it really is quite lame...and it's extremely obvious.
I have never been particularly interested in rubbing shoulders with people who are typically well liked and favoured. I am not going to grease up and pretend to agree with them just because they have some degree of respect with everyone else...its phony, fake and unkind. I try to see everyone as having the same "social" worth.... but I may take just a little bit more notice of those who are less likely to be popular.
God human nature grates me sometimes.
I find it interesting how the majority of people are so willing to take and accept a a social courtesy, but are unwilling to do the same for others.
Why is it people dont seem to have concern for the needs of others, yet when they are in a position of the same need themselves, they are quite willing to take it - when of course someone is nice enough to offer it to them. Why is it that empathy is not invoked for other people yet when they themselves have been in that same position previously they dont want to know? It doesn't make any sense to me.
For example someone who has been homeless in the past, condemning those who currently are homeless.
Here is one I can relate too - being the new person in some kind of unfamiliar environment. This one ALWAYS kills me. Every person is new at some point - lets say on... oh I dont know...an internet forum for example.... a peculiar phenomenon is that when you are new... nobody wants anything to do with you. Seriously. You are new... what people decide to do is instead of making you feel welcome to someone who is obviously unsure of themselves (because that is a natural reaction in entering an unfamiliar environment) they will ignore you completely...and stick to people that they already know.
Why do people do this? Why are people so unfriendly to those who are unfamiliar? How on earth does anybody anywhere get to know people if we are all so ridiculously offstandish and indifferent to people who we dont know already?
Yet the flip side is that at one point - THOSE people were new too...they went through exactly the same thing....they know how it feels to be new...yet, they wont extend a civil offer of warmth toward you. It's hypocritical and ridiculous.
Do you know what I would do if I saw someone who was obviously feeling left out and uncomfortable in a setting where everyone was cliquey... ? I would bowl on up to them and try to make them feel welcome. I would say try to make them feel like they were part of the club.
But do you know what ELSE annoys me about people and the way they interact with others?
Popularity, exclusivity and cliques. I really cant stand this stuff. I find it interesting how people are naturally drawn to people who are ALREADY popular. The alphas of the community. I see people agree and mooch and flock around people who are seemingly popular and have the status of those in a community who portray power and have some kind of established foothold. I see it online and I see it in the real world. It's interesting that people will ignore those who dont make them look good. It's like high school stuff... we all want to be associated with the cool kids....
it really is quite lame...and it's extremely obvious.
I have never been particularly interested in rubbing shoulders with people who are typically well liked and favoured. I am not going to grease up and pretend to agree with them just because they have some degree of respect with everyone else...its phony, fake and unkind. I try to see everyone as having the same "social" worth.... but I may take just a little bit more notice of those who are less likely to be popular.
God human nature grates me sometimes.
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KiaKaha
Banned
I just think it's ridiculous that people seem to be so thoughtless when it comes to the needs of others. How is it possible that one can suffer and are unwilling to at the very least sympathize with someone who is going through the same thing that they once did?
Am I the only one that sees how completely unkind and hypocritical this is?
I actually think.... that I may discriminate against the successful and the popular... just a little bit. Not to the point where it will adversely effect how I treat people - but just quietly I may have a mild negative bias toward them. I know that this is not good. But I believe that they have the power that others do not. I think it's an unfair advantage - through no fault of their own - it just does not sit right with me.
Those who are below - need to be brought up. Those who have more than most - need to be brought down. Yep - Tall poppy syndrome. I got it bad.
Impractical idealism is my forte and my continual downfall.
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KiaKaha
Banned
I sympathize with it - but also am aware that it is unwise. I am very left wing. If I had to label myself in a political sense I probably lean more toward being leftist social democrat. I have big problems with the concept of social classes and societal segregation particularly when it comes to opportunity, income equality, quality of life and standard of living. I think the gap between the haves and the have nots are far too high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
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MsBuzzkillington
Well-known member
Do you ever wonder how much of these things that bother you are instinctual in a sense, more so than something that we are consciously doing?
In regards to the new people thing, I think it is quite common to not be sure of the new person entering into our world. Sure, we all know what it's like to be the new person, but as far as being a little bit hesitant to readily accept them, maybe it isn't something that is being done because we are vile people. It would make sense that if you were in a tribe living some where 12,000 years ago and you had your group of people and a new comer came along wanting to be in your group, as far as safety was concerned and the well being of your tribe, you wouldn't exactly be super welcoming- you would want to feel them out first. So maybe that is ingrained in our brains some where and it isn't so easy to just switch off.
I remember seeing something in one of my anthropology classes about a group of non-human primates. I can't remember if they were apes or chimpanzees, but in their "culture" the male leaves the group he was born in and goes off to find a new one. But he can't always adapt to the new ones he finds. Often times members of the new group will be very hostile towards him because they don't know him and it could be a threat, so sometimes he has to go find other groups and sometimes they never find a new one. These primates are our very close relatives, so who's to say that the behavior isn't some how similar?
We have evolved into having minds that can think about certain things outside the box, unlike the other primates can. So many that is where sometimes things get a bit challenging. And maybe why it could be difficult to understand how much of our lives might be ruled by instinct rather than logical thought.
Sometimes I feel like humans are too hard on other humans, like getting too angry at them for acting in certain ways. But they act similar to other primates and no one is getting mad at the Chimpanzees or gorillas or whatever for acting how they act.
But like I mentioned above, we have developed a different way of thinking about things, so it is kind of hard to say. I just sometimes wonder why people separate us from them so much, when I feel like we are almost exactly the same as them (non-human primates).
In regards to the new people thing, I think it is quite common to not be sure of the new person entering into our world. Sure, we all know what it's like to be the new person, but as far as being a little bit hesitant to readily accept them, maybe it isn't something that is being done because we are vile people. It would make sense that if you were in a tribe living some where 12,000 years ago and you had your group of people and a new comer came along wanting to be in your group, as far as safety was concerned and the well being of your tribe, you wouldn't exactly be super welcoming- you would want to feel them out first. So maybe that is ingrained in our brains some where and it isn't so easy to just switch off.
I remember seeing something in one of my anthropology classes about a group of non-human primates. I can't remember if they were apes or chimpanzees, but in their "culture" the male leaves the group he was born in and goes off to find a new one. But he can't always adapt to the new ones he finds. Often times members of the new group will be very hostile towards him because they don't know him and it could be a threat, so sometimes he has to go find other groups and sometimes they never find a new one. These primates are our very close relatives, so who's to say that the behavior isn't some how similar?
We have evolved into having minds that can think about certain things outside the box, unlike the other primates can. So many that is where sometimes things get a bit challenging. And maybe why it could be difficult to understand how much of our lives might be ruled by instinct rather than logical thought.
Sometimes I feel like humans are too hard on other humans, like getting too angry at them for acting in certain ways. But they act similar to other primates and no one is getting mad at the Chimpanzees or gorillas or whatever for acting how they act.
But like I mentioned above, we have developed a different way of thinking about things, so it is kind of hard to say. I just sometimes wonder why people separate us from them so much, when I feel like we are almost exactly the same as them (non-human primates).
KiaKaha
Banned
Oh I realize that most behaviour that is observable that i happen to find distasteful is instinctual rather than having any conscious malice intent behind it. I am just amazed that no one seems to realize or care about it the same way that I do.
Which brings me on to this
We all know what it's like to be the new person
Just like we all know what it's like to suffer in the same way that someone else is.
Yet we refuse to care when it happens to someone else.
You would think that if you know how someone is feeling, one would feel for them - but the thing that I don't understand is why this is often not so.
I agree that often behaviour (especially behaviour that is hypocritical and baffling) probably is instinctual - without us being aware of what it is that we are really doing.
It's almost as if people really *DO* realize it - but refuse to act on their own empathy. They just dont want to - because it would make them appear as if they are... I dont know...weak in someway perhaps.
I am not sure.
I just think it blows. If someone is new - I would make them feel welcome...ESPECIALLY if they are being left out. Yet the crazy thing is - is that when that same need applies to someone else - people dont want to know.
Does anyone else understand what I am trying to say? Is anyone else bothered by it also?
Or is it just me...? Am I the only one who thinks that giving a stranger a bit of warmth to a new environment is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
pfffff....dumb. Everything is dumb.
Which brings me on to this
We all know what it's like to be the new person
Just like we all know what it's like to suffer in the same way that someone else is.
Yet we refuse to care when it happens to someone else.
You would think that if you know how someone is feeling, one would feel for them - but the thing that I don't understand is why this is often not so.
I agree that often behaviour (especially behaviour that is hypocritical and baffling) probably is instinctual - without us being aware of what it is that we are really doing.
It's almost as if people really *DO* realize it - but refuse to act on their own empathy. They just dont want to - because it would make them appear as if they are... I dont know...weak in someway perhaps.
I am not sure.
I just think it blows. If someone is new - I would make them feel welcome...ESPECIALLY if they are being left out. Yet the crazy thing is - is that when that same need applies to someone else - people dont want to know.
Does anyone else understand what I am trying to say? Is anyone else bothered by it also?
Or is it just me...? Am I the only one who thinks that giving a stranger a bit of warmth to a new environment is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
pfffff....dumb. Everything is dumb.
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hidwell
Well-known member
I know what you are saying, and I do agree with you. I just think most of us are more accepting with the status quo, where you Mr touchy feely guy :
:are trying to move mountains with sheer will power, I will say this, you are nothing if not persistent.
KiaKaha
Banned
I know what you are saying, and I do agree with you. I just think most of us are more accepting with the status quo, where you Mr touchy feely guy :
You know what, next time I am in some kind of situation where someone is obviously being left out and completely overlooked - maybe I will join the masses and just ignore them and indirectly make them feel like they are worthless and not wanted. I will join the club and finally succumb to the the kind of behaviour that is apparently "the norm"
MsBuzzkillington
Well-known member
I understand what you are trying to say and it is unfair. But if it is more instinctual than purposeful than I am saying people aren't really being complete jerks.
You can't really say "yeah I think we are acting on instinct" and then but it's wrong when people do it. Well, maybe we don't have as much of a say about the situation as we'd like to. Some people could be more strongly affected by it than others. Being in a group also really emphasizes the behavior.
And I don't know if it is really a refusal to care. Maybe there are 100 different things in the situation that prevents someone from being super accepting right away. We are very influential creatures.
You know what I am saying?
Some people are the type that will welcome new people into groups with big open arms, some people hide away in the corner, some aren't even part of the group at all just happen to be in the same area. There are so many different variables.
I know it is easy to say, but I think it is better to focus on trying to make others feel good and welcome than to worry about why there are mean people in the world.
Oh my gosh, replies while I was replying! eek.
You can't really say "yeah I think we are acting on instinct" and then but it's wrong when people do it. Well, maybe we don't have as much of a say about the situation as we'd like to. Some people could be more strongly affected by it than others. Being in a group also really emphasizes the behavior.
And I don't know if it is really a refusal to care. Maybe there are 100 different things in the situation that prevents someone from being super accepting right away. We are very influential creatures.
You know what I am saying?
Some people are the type that will welcome new people into groups with big open arms, some people hide away in the corner, some aren't even part of the group at all just happen to be in the same area. There are so many different variables.
I know it is easy to say, but I think it is better to focus on trying to make others feel good and welcome than to worry about why there are mean people in the world.
Oh my gosh, replies while I was replying! eek.
KiaKaha
Banned
Yes it is unfair...but mostly it's unkind. I just dont seem to be able to get my head around how empathy for others is not invoked when people can understand and have been through exactly the same thing. I don't get it. I don't understand why. It does not make any sense to me.
Instinct yes - but why is it that *I* care about this stuff (and hopefully others out there) and am aware of it, and it would seemingly be that no one else cares or is aware of it.
I think it is a blatant refusal - people surely cant be that stupid....oops I mean "Unaware" yeah...we will go with that.
Instinct yes - but why is it that *I* care about this stuff (and hopefully others out there) and am aware of it, and it would seemingly be that no one else cares or is aware of it.
I think it is a blatant refusal - people surely cant be that stupid....oops I mean "Unaware" yeah...we will go with that.
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hidwell
Well-known member
You just couldn't do it Kia, you are a renegade. Your stance on fair play and sticking up for the underdog would not allow you to be that passive.
KiaKaha
Banned
I have a few things on my mind that I need to express.
Firstly - for the first time in my life I bought and consumed a sweet snack that I thought was not available in my country...something you Americans call a "twinkie"
After hearing about them for years on television and movies I finally had a chance to try one. I had no idea what they were...some kind of cream filled sponge cake? Delicious.
I also had something called a ding dong - crazy name - chocolate sponge cake. Man... too much. Damned island - cant get the good stuff readily available.
I was walking through town today - more and more homeless are filling the streets where I live. The homeless make me feel uncomfortable. I can't look at them - If I see one I have to cross the street, I dont like walking past them with their signs and their disheveled appearance. The thing that bothers me most - is not the homeless themselves, but the attitude that people have toward them. They are about as low as you can get on the social ladder. Hundreds and hundreds of people walk past them (myself included) not once stopping to consider their situation - it makes me feel saddened that people show no concern for people like this - when one day they could be in exactly the same situation themselves.
I wonder why this is - I wonder - do people not care because they believe that they are not helping themselves? Do they not care because they believe that if they did help they would just spend any money given to them on booze and drugs? Do they not care simply because they just dont care?
I also feel frustrated that if people do help them - then THEY are targeted by the public because it would seem like they are enabling them to live on the streets. Homeless people deserve dignity too - and I wonder where this indifferent attitude towards them stems from.
At the risk of sounding hypocritical - I would love to speak to them and find how they got themselves where they are, and also help them somehow...but I am afraid. I am afraid that if I do, people will judge me for 'enabling' them - especially in public. I am scared of what the public would think..."bleeding hearts" arent particularly liked. I am also afraid that I may not know what to say to them if I start talking to them.
I find it distasteful that so many people ignore people who are obviously in need - it's just so cruel in my opinion.
Also -
The reason I was in town to begin with was to attend a hearing tribunal about the money I owe for receiving a monetary allowance when I was not supposed to of. There was an error made with my previous tertiary education provider - and now because of that error I have been made accountable. This error - has caused me to no longer be entitled to study and to pay back any money I had received previously.
I expressed my case in front of a panel of 4 others. I believe I have now been heard - and have had my situation acknowledged by people who can do something about it. They have told me that I have been treated unfairly and that I am not accountable. The final result of the tribunal is being discussed. Too early to count my chickens... but I feel it was a good outcome all up. I also have grounds to take my case to the disputes tribunal to force my previous education provider to pay back all the money that I unwittingly accrued from my time during study. That is something that is in the works. I am hoping that the people who have the power to make these decisions see sense and allow me to go my chosen career path of social worker.
Firstly - for the first time in my life I bought and consumed a sweet snack that I thought was not available in my country...something you Americans call a "twinkie"
After hearing about them for years on television and movies I finally had a chance to try one. I had no idea what they were...some kind of cream filled sponge cake? Delicious.
I also had something called a ding dong - crazy name - chocolate sponge cake. Man... too much. Damned island - cant get the good stuff readily available.
I was walking through town today - more and more homeless are filling the streets where I live. The homeless make me feel uncomfortable. I can't look at them - If I see one I have to cross the street, I dont like walking past them with their signs and their disheveled appearance. The thing that bothers me most - is not the homeless themselves, but the attitude that people have toward them. They are about as low as you can get on the social ladder. Hundreds and hundreds of people walk past them (myself included) not once stopping to consider their situation - it makes me feel saddened that people show no concern for people like this - when one day they could be in exactly the same situation themselves.
I wonder why this is - I wonder - do people not care because they believe that they are not helping themselves? Do they not care because they believe that if they did help they would just spend any money given to them on booze and drugs? Do they not care simply because they just dont care?
I also feel frustrated that if people do help them - then THEY are targeted by the public because it would seem like they are enabling them to live on the streets. Homeless people deserve dignity too - and I wonder where this indifferent attitude towards them stems from.
At the risk of sounding hypocritical - I would love to speak to them and find how they got themselves where they are, and also help them somehow...but I am afraid. I am afraid that if I do, people will judge me for 'enabling' them - especially in public. I am scared of what the public would think..."bleeding hearts" arent particularly liked. I am also afraid that I may not know what to say to them if I start talking to them.
I find it distasteful that so many people ignore people who are obviously in need - it's just so cruel in my opinion.
Also -
The reason I was in town to begin with was to attend a hearing tribunal about the money I owe for receiving a monetary allowance when I was not supposed to of. There was an error made with my previous tertiary education provider - and now because of that error I have been made accountable. This error - has caused me to no longer be entitled to study and to pay back any money I had received previously.
I expressed my case in front of a panel of 4 others. I believe I have now been heard - and have had my situation acknowledged by people who can do something about it. They have told me that I have been treated unfairly and that I am not accountable. The final result of the tribunal is being discussed. Too early to count my chickens... but I feel it was a good outcome all up. I also have grounds to take my case to the disputes tribunal to force my previous education provider to pay back all the money that I unwittingly accrued from my time during study. That is something that is in the works. I am hoping that the people who have the power to make these decisions see sense and allow me to go my chosen career path of social worker.
1BlackSheep
Well-known member
Awesome!!! Now you just need to try a HoHo in order to complete your Hostess snack cakes repertoire! :
:Some choose to live this way and don't want anyone's help, but I see no problem with asking.
Excellent! Hope the matter is resolved in your favor so you can put it all behind you!
KiaKaha
Banned
Some do yes. I don't think the majority do though. I am not sure. I would have to find out somehow.
I just dont like it.
Ho Ho?
damn... who is the guy that makes up these names?
1BlackSheep
Well-known member
There was this homeless guy in my city when I was in my teens who would walk around the streets all the time. He wore a ski jacket year round (even when it was scorching hot), looked like a mess, and people always made fun of him. But, from what I heard, he came from a very wealthy family and chose to be homeless! So, you just never know...
KiaKaha
Banned
mmmm....yeah... I know. I have heard stories like that too. There was a man that walked down the streets here wore raggedy clothes and had a huge growth on his forehead. Not sure what it was but it was unsightly. I heard he was very skilled in his previous profession. He was known as the bucket man - because he always carried an empty bucket. I bought him a macdonalds once.
I also knew of this man here
Ben Hana was his name - he would wear nothing but a loin cloth - sitting in the streets all year round. He own an ipod - which would suggest he had means to power it and access to shelter. He died earlier this year... I spoke to him a few times. Nice guy - good sense of humour. Damn whitey he would say.
Ho ho's - delicious. I will have to go back into the store I bought the twinkie from see if they have them there.
coyote
Well-known member
i remember seeing a man in downtown chicago everyday on my way to work
dressed in rags, cardboard sign, garbage bags, the works
one day i thought i saw him in the pharmacy in my neigborhood
only it couldn't be him - he looked all clean, dressed nicely, he was buying a pack of cigarettes
turns out, the guy owned a house around the corner from me
everyday he got dressed in his rags and took the train downtown to beg
apparently he made around $40,000 a year that way - tax free, of course
in the US, a great many homeless people are convicted felons - that's why they can't find jobs
another big part of the homeless community are mentally ill
it's not about economics
but it's still an indicator that our society is leaving some people out
dressed in rags, cardboard sign, garbage bags, the works
one day i thought i saw him in the pharmacy in my neigborhood
only it couldn't be him - he looked all clean, dressed nicely, he was buying a pack of cigarettes
turns out, the guy owned a house around the corner from me
everyday he got dressed in his rags and took the train downtown to beg
apparently he made around $40,000 a year that way - tax free, of course
in the US, a great many homeless people are convicted felons - that's why they can't find jobs
another big part of the homeless community are mentally ill
it's not about economics
but it's still an indicator that our society is leaving some people out