Men's Right's Movement

here's something for the men to stand behind

My bad grammar-"Rights" without the apostrophe


The Women of the Men's Rights Movement | VICE | United States

Hello Molly.

Do you agree with this movement?

It's seems to me that this would be an obvious reaction to so much out cry over the yrs over women's issues. You make one thing center stage and everything else falls to the way-side. Much like they were showing all men fall into a negative category across the board.

What do you think about it? I find it odd no one but you has even commented tbh.

The Feminism thread was on-fire for many days with people commenting-more men were feminist than women, male-feminist are a real thing, and the biggest opponent of anti-feminism I found out.:thinking:

Where are the men on the subject of "Men's Rights?".... Silent? Silenced? Meeting in secret fraternal orders right now discussing strategies and football?

Some of that was really comical- the titles of the articles they were writing for example-they did that to get attention. Interestingly, sounds like our favorite Psychology Today writer used the same ploy to get fired.:thumbup:

I'd never even heard of MRM before I found this Vice video while watching one on fracking this morning. News to me!

Well, I reckon some of the stuff I've seen on the feminism thread and in the thread link above, is quite adversarial, and makes me uncomfortable. I reckon there are plenty of reasons in that discourse for why I like to be alone most of the time. It made me think of this poem by Leunig.

http://www.leunig.com.au/index.php/cartoons/recent-cartoons

I'd prefer a general rights movement myself. Pitting one group against another seems counter productive to achieving a balance. Though, with the amount of friction that still very much exists this desire may be premature.

I like the idea of both sides having the ability to speak without feeling suppressed by undue guilt, but something about that video made me uncomfortable. I'm not sure whether it was the coverage or their overall messages or what, I can't quite put my finger on it.

I saw a news contributor on the news a few years ago who was a hardcore misogynist defending some gender rights issue... and I was like wtf? men have rights? lol.

I've been manipulated and used by women for $ and attention tons of times, with nothing given me in return except empty pockets and residual anxiety for all the crap they put me through.

I guess men's rights awareness is good for the extreme cases where women are manipulating men for tons of material goods, or beating the sh*t out of them. But generally, men are supposed to just tolerate women's various woes and emotional fits. They have to bear/raise children, a burden men are happy to mostly relinquish.

let women do what they want. don't beat them physically. if they hit you, then call them a nasty name or some such and pack your stuff and leave her for good and don't answer her calls/texts.

It would be more popular if it wasn't flooded with insecure guys who are upset because women don't like them.

There are always going to be examples of bitter divorces, false rape accusations and I suppose women deciding to have the baby that you want aborted... but I don't think false rape accusations are as common as they think, a prenup will take care of any potential issues during a divorce, and not having reckless, unprotected sex with women you don't want to impregnate will do a lot for your paternity issues.

Still, I will admit that men don't have it as easy as some people think. Men are often more reluctant to ask for help when they need it, less likely to admit weakness and less likely to be met compassion when they express it. I think this probably does relate to why men successfully commit suicide more often, and why it's probably more difficult for men (or yes, boys) to admit that they were abused in any way. I also think that men have fewer social support networks.

But then, I would also say that feminists are more likely to be open to males displaying weakness than non-feminists, because they're more likely to accept unconventional men and don't demand the same traditional patriarchal standards that cast men as 'the rock' in the relationship. So why the MRMs think that feminists are responsible for their oppression is beyond me.

Full-blown radical feminism has been around for decades and there is no feminist equivalent of Elliot Rodger, while this Men's Rights thing has only caught on in the past decade or so and he was really into it. Take from that what you will.

As for the whole MGTOW thing-- it's absurd. I'm sure that it will be really difficult for them to get women to not want them, but I pray that they can stay strong in the face of so much temptation.

Interesting ODO-

this is new to me too

MGTOW

Urban Dictionary definition-(always the best resource for info)

Men/Man Going Their Own Way.

MGTOW is basically the statement of self-ownership and saying that only you have the right to decide what your goals in life should be.

It is saying that, as a man I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of women and society, because both have become hostile against masculinity.
Male 1: Dude, why don't you have a girl friend?

Male 2: Its not for me bro, I'm a MGTOW.

BlackPuma said:

I'd prefer a general rights movement myself. Pitting one group against another seems counter productive to achieving a balance. Though, with the amount of friction that still very much exists this desire may be premature.

I like the idea of both sides having the ability to speak without feeling suppressed by undue guilt, but something about that video made me uncomfortable. I'm not sure whether it was the coverage or their overall messages or what, I can't quite put my finger on it.

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I'd agree, but I'm cynical about people's ability to put their perceptions of "their" group and "their" side aside. I've even seen people arguing that either feminism or men's rights isn't needed, because we have it so much worse, blah blah blah.

That said, women have the first and most profound insight into life as women and men have the same for their gender.

Odo said:

It would be more popular if it wasn't flooded with insecure guys who are upset because women don't like them.

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Also this. I think the premise of things like MGTOW as a movement are flawed, because people who are experiencing only hostility are people who have problems that are more personal in nature. I know some people would go out of their way to interpret this as a derogatory attack, but I'm speaking to the ones who don't have an agenda and know what it means for someone to be really bad at avoiding the rotten apples or to have a long chain of pointless bad luck.

The entirety of society is not so hostile to men that there are no partners out there who won't marry you only for your money and then divorce you, etc, even if some people are more prone to attracting abusers than others. Same as it was for feminism. There were major problems, but one of them wasn't "no men who can respect these rights I'm fighting for, so I should protest by not dating anyone" . For people who repeatedly attract abuse, staying away might actually be the best choice. But they're pointing to the entirety of society and women, which is simply untrue when respect is a massive cultural issue with people falling everywhere on the map on the various issues.

On another note, no one really cares if some people don't pair off and their arguments trend towards extremes, so it's not at all convincing or productive. What they're doing doesn't affect women, who have many, many other men to turn to for possible dates. And extreme arguments tend to be laughed at even more often than they rile people up into a rage or a panic, when they're not well-crafted.

To keep it brief, my opinion on the Men's Rights Movement is the same as my opinion on the Feminist movement, i.e. I support it. That's why I label myself as neither but as a Gender Equality / Egalitarianism supporter.

MollyBeGood said:

What do you think about it? I find it odd no one but you has even commented tbh.

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I'm afraid I don't know enough about "gender politics" to really entitle myself to form an opinion on this. :idontknow:

Jeez, I am glad I don't have the baggage of some to the guys on the MGTHOW site. I kind of appreciate how things turned out for me.

What about 'Humans for solitude.' HOS like the character out of bonanza.

I hope this won't get taken as an offense here, but the problem (apart from not agreeing with their views) with the MRM for me, at least judging from the video and some forums that I read through, is their representation to the outside, which strikes me as rather attention seeking than thought out and reasonable. I mean, how am I supposed to take people seriously who take on their political "opponents" with titles like "If You See Jezebel in the Road, Run the Bitch Down" or with that passive aggressive logo from one of the female MRA activists in the video that is supposed to "show feminists to what they have to point the gun"?
If they think they have something meaningful to say outside of the internet, they should go into politics and public discourse, but I somehow doubt that this will happen tbh, since then they would have to explain some pretty odd positions like this:

"The right to opt out of raising a child, since, some MRAs say, women can opt out of a pregnancy;" (Taken from the Vice article)

Or can someone explain to me how opting out of fatherhood - in other words, refusing any responsibility for your child - is equal to ending a pregnancy? I don't know if that's an official stance of the AVFM founder or any of the women in the video, but it's for sure a popular concept within their realms.

Blueborn said:

If they think they have something meaningful to say outside of the internet, they should go into politics and public discourse, but I somehow doubt that this will happen tbh, since then they would have to explain some pretty odd positions like this:

"The right to opt out of raising a child, since, some MRAs say, women can opt out of a pregnancy;" (Taken from the Vice article)

Or can someone explain to me how opting out of fatherhood - in other words, refusing any responsibility for your child - is equal to ending a pregnancy? I don't know if that's an official stance of the AVFM founder or any of the women in the video, but it's for sure a popular concept within their realms.

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I think they're talking about situations where the guy doesn't want to have a kid but is still having sex with a woman, and then she gets pregnant and he decides he doesn't want the kid but she does and then also wants him to pay for it.

The argument is that since women can have abortions and men can't, men shouldn't have to be responsible for the kid if he can't convince the woman to abort the child... and the only reason men are expected to step up and pay in these situations is because of an unfair cultural bias against men. I think they also point out that women sometimes earn more so it's not fair to expect men to pay out when they don't make as much.

Somehow these extremely rare cases that almost always involve irresponsible behavior in the first place warrant a law that encourages men to walk out on their children or use the threat of such in order to exercise control over their wife/girlfriend/one night stand's body.

Thanks for putting it into a good overview Odo, that's how I basically got it as well. What really strucks me though is the indication of abortion as "opting out of parenthood" for women on which the rest of this argumentation is based. It's actually a misleading equation, unless the fetus is seen already as a human being, in which case it would be far more coherent to take a stance against abortion itself, but that's obviously not part of the MRM's reasoning. Denying fatherhood on the other hand would result in a shift of responsibility for the child towards the mother and the public, a scenario that I can't really imagine to be widely accepted in society.
As for the father's child care cost, when the woman is earning more: I don't know the relevant laws for this in the US, but in my country the child support is simply splitted proportionately to the income of each parent, so that would be an easy solution for that problem.

Odo said:

Somehow these extremely rare cases that almost always involve irresponsible behavior in the first place warrant a law that encourages men to walk out on their children or use the threat of such in order to exercise control over their wife/girlfriend/one night stand's body.

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I guess there's not much to add to your conclusion, it would be hardly a step towards more gender equality.

Kiwong said:

Jeez, I am glad I don't have the baggage of some to the guys on the MGTHOW site. I kind of appreciate how things turned out for me.

What about 'Humans for solitude.' HOS like the character out of bonanza.

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What is this MGTHOW thing all about?

Can someone sum it up for me so I don't have to plow through any number of sites, forums, posts to get a solid grasp on it?

I'm just too lazy tonight!

Bronson99 said:

What is this MGTHOW thing all about?

Can someone sum it up for me so I don't have to plow through any number of sites, forums, posts to get a solid grasp on it?

I'm just too lazy tonight!

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It's "men going their own way." Basically men rejecting the domestic lifestyle of marriage/family in favor of living for themselves. Some may even give up women completely.

I'm partally MGTOW as I have no desire for marriage or domestic servatude but I could never give up women, their skin is just so irresistibly soft!

Looking at the MGTOW movement ...really seems to push "women only marry you for money"-isn't the male currency of women their looks?...it's all the same just a different "package". Not too many guys rushing to the alter with a woman who they think is dog-food in the looks dept.

MollyBeGood said:

Looking at the MGTOW movement ...really seems to push "women only marry you for money"-isn't the male currency of women their looks?...it's all the same just a different "package". Not too many guys rushing to the alter with a woman who they think is dog-food in the looks dept.

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No truth in any of the above.

Bronson99 said:

What is this MGTHOW thing all about?

Can someone sum it up for me so I don't have to plow through any number of sites, forums, posts to get a solid grasp on it?

I'm just too lazy tonight!

Click to expand...

I didn't get a solid grasp, just an impression that they are a bunch of unhappy campers.