Ultimate failure in life.

OceanMist said:

You don't need a girlfriend.

A man that doesn't have a girlfriend isn't a failure.

The word failure implies that he should have a girlfriend, and nobody should have to have anything.

Your problem is you think you need a signficant other. You don't need a significant other.

Truth is many of us die alone. Even the "cool" people that have tons of g/fs.

Even if you do die with your lover by your side, that death will only be one day.

Why feel bad about that one day you're going to die? I personally don't get it.

My advice to you is to go to a retirement home and you will see what your later years are going to look like. It's a real reality check and may help you realize how freaking meaningless finding a girl is.

I mean have you even considered that even if you found someone THEY may die before you?

Another thing you can do is grade how you feel right after masturbating. Seriously.

You won't care about having a g/f.

That same feeling is the feeling you have after finishing with a girl.

Society has pounded into your head that "you better get status or you must be a loser."

It's all a bunch of shaming!

They want you to keep feeding the system.

What these people don't tell you is how many of them are miserable.

Look at the divorce rate. 50%. That's 50% of marriages that were miserable. Then there are even MORE marriages that are in shambles.

Yeah....society doesn't like to tell you the truth. That MOST relationships go in heartbreak and/or end in heartbreak.

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I needed that, thanks Mist.

OceanMist said:

You don't need a girlfriend.

A man that doesn't have a girlfriend isn't a failure.

The word failure implies that he should have a girlfriend, and nobody should have to have anything.

Your problem is you think you need a signficant other. You don't need a significant other.

Truth is many of us die alone. Even the "cool" people that have tons of g/fs.

Even if you do die with your lover by your side, that death will only be one day.

Why feel bad about that one day you're going to die? I personally don't get it.

My advice to you is to go to a retirement home and you will see what your later years are going to look like. It's a real reality check and may help you realize how freaking meaningless finding a girl is.

I mean have you even considered that even if you found someone THEY may die before you?

Another thing you can do is grade how you feel right after masturbating. Seriously.

You won't care about having a g/f.

That same feeling is the feeling you have after finishing with a girl.

Society has pounded into your head that "you better get status or you must be a loser."

It's all a bunch of shaming!

They want you to keep feeding the system.

What these people don't tell you is how many of them are miserable.

Look at the divorce rate. 50%. That's 50% of marriages that were miserable. Then there are even MORE marriages that are in shambles.

Yeah....society doesn't like to tell you the truth. That MOST relationships go in heartbreak and/or end in heartbreak.

Click to expand...

oh hell YES! :thumbup:
You deserve a gold star of gold stars for that post, OceanMist. erfect:

OceanMist said:

My advice to you is to go to a retirement home and you will see what your later years are going to look like. It's a real reality check and may help you realize how freaking meaningless finding a girl is.

I mean have you even considered that even if you found someone THEY may die before you?

Another thing you can do is grade how you feel right after masturbating. Seriously.

You won't care about having a g/f.

That same feeling is the feeling you have after finishing with a girl.

Society has pounded into your head that "you better get status or you must be a loser."

Click to expand...

Agree in most ways. But I think some "close contact" with women, even if it does not lead to a long relationship, may be better than none. Everyone wants to feel appreciated, even for just a moment, relatively.

A lot of folks who "lack social status" quite logically feel they can't even have that; and many have probably tried and failed, regardless of what arrangement they were seeking.

Before anyone accuses me of just "taking a selfish angle" (where's mine? that kind of thing) may I remind you that all of this is a basic need, it's on Maslow's Hierarchy even. This does not mean that I/he/anyone else feels owed something. It just means low social status means you're closed off from it, perhaps indefinitely.

Bronson99 said:

Agree in most ways. But I think some "close contact" with women, even if it does not lead to a long relationship, may be better than none. Everyone wants to feel appreciated, even for just a moment, relatively.

A lot of folks who "lack social status" quite logically feel they can't even have that; and many have probably tried and failed, regardless of what arrangement they were seeking.

Before anyone accuses me of just "taking a selfish angle" (where's mine? that kind of thing) may I remind you that all of this is a basic need, it's on Maslow's Hierarchy even. This does not mean that I/he/anyone else feels owed something. It just means low social status means you're closed off from it, perhaps indefinitely.

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I had to Google Maslow's hierarchy of needs after you posted that. I knew what you were referring to but I wanted to see how far down "love" was on the pyramid. Love is third on the hierarchy right below self-actualization and self-esteem. Having some form of contact with the opposite sex is an innate desire of the male/female (part of Maslow's pyramid I agree) but what Maslow also meant by love was the love one receives from family/friends and the sense of belonging in a social circle bigger than ones self.

A lot of folks who "lack social status" quite logically feel they can't even have that; and many have probably tried and failed, regardless of what arrangement they were seeking.

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I honestly feel like I can be put into that same category, not with the "feeling appreciated" but with the "emotional/physical contact" part. I don't know what that is like for the most part. It has made me extremely bitter. It's like I've become addicted or am becoming addicted to the bitterness, does that make any sense? Like I'm close to crossing the threshold in my life where I would rather be happy to see relationships/marriages crumble to pieces and lash out at others than to have momentary happiness with someone else. A future of feeling that way for the rest of my life almost sickens me.

This is just my 2 cents but I feel like this applies to men more so than women. Men have always been the so-called "providers" when it comes to marriages (relationships in general I assume) so a woman has a much better chance at finding a relationship with a man than vice versa even if the woman "lacks social status".

Interesting posts everyone. I firmly believe that life equals suffering and when you start of with a genetic predisposition to anxiety and depression life gets a whole lot tougher.

You're worried you'll die alone, but you also have to consider that by not being strong enough in your daily battles, your situation won't get better. If possible, please look at your local CBT therapists, and give them a try. Do something that scares you every day (walking through a crowded mall, asking for directions, making small talk with your friendly neighbor, asking someone at the store where [insert product] is located, etc).

There are a lot more men who have never dated than you think. Even many without social issues like us. I'm not saying it's possible to have a fulfilling life without a solid woman, but at least we're not alone.

hidwell said:

Interesting posts everyone. I firmly believe that life equals suffering and when you start of with a genetic predisposition to anxiety and depression life gets a whole lot tougher.

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Yep, that's very true. I can vouch for that.

OceanMist said:

You don't need a girlfriend.

A man that doesn't have a girlfriend isn't a failure.

The word failure implies that he should have a girlfriend, and nobody should have to have anything.

Your problem is you think you need a signficant other. You don't need a significant other.

Truth is many of us die alone. Even the "cool" people that have tons of g/fs.

Even if you do die with your lover by your side, that death will only be one day.

Why feel bad about that one day you're going to die? I personally don't get it.

My advice to you is to go to a retirement home and you will see what your later years are going to look like. It's a real reality check and may help you realize how freaking meaningless finding a girl is.

I mean have you even considered that even if you found someone THEY may die before you?

Another thing you can do is grade how you feel right after masturbating. Seriously.

You won't care about having a g/f.

That same feeling is the feeling you have after finishing with a girl.

Society has pounded into your head that "you better get status or you must be a loser."

It's all a bunch of shaming!

They want you to keep feeding the system.

What these people don't tell you is how many of them are miserable.

Look at the divorce rate. 50%. That's 50% of marriages that were miserable. Then there are even MORE marriages that are in shambles.

Yeah....society doesn't like to tell you the truth. That MOST relationships go in heartbreak and/or end in heartbreak.

Click to expand...

I find troubling that so many of you agree with this. Most of you seem to be sensible and caring people who would probably make good partners.

I agree that no one is a failure for being single, that should be clear. Actually, most people would agree that it's better to be single than in a bad relationship.

However, it's important to remember that the need for intimate relationships comes from our biology, not society. I agree that relationships more often than not are messy in our modern society, but is that because relationships are inherently bad, or is it because we are living under a culture that is making people build unhealthy relationships? The media, the government and the dominant ideology promotes promiscuity, the deconstruction of the family, hedonistic and selfish lifestyles, hatred against men as oppressors of women by definition, women as eternal victims of everything with no agency and responsibility, and so on.

I wonder, how many of those marriages that ended bitterly were relationships actually made on the idea of living the rest of their lives together as a family, with the necessary precautions and planning in advance to make it work? How many of those people went into it as a gamble, with divorce or cheating as a possible future in the back of their heads? People often think the difference between having a boyfriend/girlfriend and marriage is the contract, most people find the idea of having sex with only one person and no one else for the rest of their lives something terrible, and on top of it all we have family courts and lawyers making money on the whole thing failing.

The people who ask you about why you are single are usually those who are close to you, like your family, friends and co-workers. People who usually want you to be happy, or at least see the idea of being with someone as something important in our lives as human beings, it's not about status. The system you are talking about actually preaches that being single, childless and living for your job equals freedom and happiness. The system doesn't care if you don't marry or have children, they are already promoting open borders to replace the local population. Who do you think makes a better cog for this machine: A family who lives to build a better future for their children, or someone married to the State and to their job?

I have in my family many couples who literally wouldn't be alive anymore if not for their marriage and their children, giving the support and motivation needed to overcome all sorts of hardships that would have crushed them if they were alone. Even with all the trouble and stress of not living to yourself anymore, they do not regret it one bit, more money and consumerism would never bring meaning to their lives.

What I mean with all this is... At the end of the day, a relationship is what the couple make of it... Why would you believe there's no one else out there who wishes for a relationship like the one you are looking for? If you take relationships seriously, you probably won't find this person drinking all night at a club or something like that, but looking at the right places, or even paying attention to those who you think might be what you are looking for somewhere else, you might find it...

Louco said:

Why would you believe there's no one else out there who wishes for a relationship like the one you are looking for?

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Simple enough. Who wants to be with a guy who has low social status and enough anxiety to make any kind of social obligation painful? I don't think this is a problem of "immaturity" any longer.. it is about realistic limits. Avoidance with a purpose, as opposed to "avoidance because I'm still a little kid and won't grow up." The first is usually the case; the second is the insult I (or anyone else) receives when they say "I like the idea of a relationship, but I am probably not equipped for it, as I would not be able to handle the social obligations involved."

Anyhow, this is not the kind of person "the other half" is looking for.

But yes, it is the kind of relationship I'd be looking for, in theory; one where they understand that I have *social* limitations and need loads of space to the point of being aloof most of the time. And vice versa. But apparently, this either does not exist, or perhaps there is a profoundly limited audience for this kind of set-up.

I hate to generalize, but i don't know any other way to talk about these things, than to go with working assumptions based on what I have seen. Gender differences aren't a "non-factor." Extroverted/NT guys tend to do pretty well, let's put it that way.

Bronson99 said:

Who wants to be with a guy who has low social status and enough anxiety to make any kind of social obligation painful?

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Honestly, I'm pretty sure most of our troubles comes from how painful the whole social "ritual" for finding a girlfriend is, which makes us avoid it and we don't even make it to the point of getting rejected. Also, with so many unfaithful, selfish, dishonest, controlling and crazy people out there, SA is probably not seem as that much of an issue by others. It's a condition that we know well and constantly try to overcome, while "normal" people usually do nothing about the character flaws that end up breaking their relationships.

Bronson99 said:

I don't think this is a problem of "immaturity" any longer.. it is about realistic limits. Avoidance with a purpose, as opposed to "avoidance because I'm still a little kid and won't grow up." The first is usually the case; the second is the insult I (or anyone else) receives when they say "I like the idea of a relationship, but I am probably not equipped for it, as I would not be able to handle the social obligations involved."

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Our problem is not immaturity, we can't let stupid people who know nothing about SA make us feel guilty.

Bronson99 said:

Anyhow, this is not the kind of person "the other half" is looking for.

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Never forget that you are the other half from someone else's perspective though.

Bronson99 said:

But yes, it is the kind of relationship I'd be looking for, in theory; one where they understand that I have *social* limitations and need loads of space to the point of being aloof most of the time. And vice versa. But apparently, this either does not exist, or perhaps there is a profoundly limited audience for this kind of set-up.

I hate to generalize, but i don't know any other way to talk about these things, than to go with working assumptions based on what I have seen. Gender differences aren't a "non-factor." Extroverted/NT guys tend to do pretty well, let's put it that way.

Click to expand...

Of course, but as an example, the women I met in college were completely different from those I met in the workplace. It's natural to make generalizations, the human brain loves to create models of everything as a "shortcut" to understand reality more quickly, but we have to watch out so our distressful experiences do not narrow our worldview.

You are probably right when you say that most people are not looking for people like us, but let's be honest, we are not looking for them either. Anyone who feels too much need to socialize with others, frequently go to parties and stuff like that, is usually seem as someone who we don't want to be around. However, there are plenty of people out there who would rather have quiet lives, but how are you going to find them if you give up on relationships in general...

OceanMist said:

You don't need a girlfriend.

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Hello fellow schizoid :greeting:

You and me both know that they do need a girlfriend, but nice try at consoling.

dzerklis said:

Hello fellow schizoid :greeting:

You and me both know that they do need a girlfriend, but nice try at consoling.

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Can you expand on that because I don't understand what you mean by "need a girlfriend". What can a girlfriend offer that work friends, hobbies, and a pet dog/cat cannot?

Hot_Tamale said:

Can you expand on that because I don't understand what you mean by "need a girlfriend". What can a girlfriend offer that work friends, hobbies, and a pet dog/cat cannot?

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O_O

Gee, I dunno... Sex? Romance? Let's just start with that.

Bronson99 said:

Agree in most ways. But I think some "close contact" with women, even if it does not lead to a long relationship, may be better than none. Everyone wants to feel appreciated, even for just a moment, relatively.

A lot of folks who "lack social status" quite logically feel they can't even have that; and many have probably tried and failed, regardless of what arrangement they were seeking.

Before anyone accuses me of just "taking a selfish angle" (where's mine? that kind of thing) may I remind you that all of this is a basic need, it's on Maslow's Hierarchy even. This does not mean that I/he/anyone else feels owed something. It just means low social status means you're closed off from it, perhaps indefinitely.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but i totally disagree with Maslow on that hierarchy.

A need to me is something needed strictly for survival. Which isn't much. Food, water, shelter are some i can rattle off the top of my head.

Even shelter is something someone in the great weather areas southern Cali could probably do without.

Air is another.

That's really about it.

It sounds like Maslow is a type of dude that thinks we need people in our lives to survive.

Thing is, in today's society we have them working for us without asking (food delivered to grocery stores, etc.)

Nothing wrong with that, it's just I feel he's blinded by his desire of validation from people.

To say intimate relationships are a need is preposterous imo.

Or maybe his definition of need is my definition of "nice to have on a rainy day."

dzerklis said:

Hello fellow schizoid :greeting:

You and me both know that they do need a girlfriend, but nice try at consoling.

Click to expand...

Why do you think you need a g/f?

I would go as far as to say we don't really need in-person communication on a personal level at all outside of work or any other leisurely activity.

Hot_Tamale said:

Can you expand on that because I don't understand what you mean by "need a girlfriend". What can a girlfriend offer that work friends, hobbies, and a pet dog/cat cannot?

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Exactly! We don't need a significant other!

awkwardamanda said:

O_O

Gee, I dunno... Sex? Romance? Let's just start with that.

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Sex and romance aren't needs.

It's all media brainwashing.

The media has convinced the majority of people they need that special someone or they haven't "completed" themselves. It's insane!

Fairytales belong in fairytale stories, not in the real world. However that doesn't stop many people from DESIRING it, and TRYING to manifest that in their real lives.

OceanMist said:

Nothing wrong with that, it's just I feel he's blinded by his desire of validation from people.

To say intimate relationships are a need is preposterous imo.

Or maybe his definition of need is my definition of "nice to have on a rainy day."

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It's still a basic need; not required, but yes, it is a basic human desire to seek carnal relations with others, have relationships, or both. This much cannot be denied.

I'll ask again, since no one provides an answer yet. What's a low-status or disabled guy to do about it? Is the only way for a guy to participate in the "romantic/sexual" space to be a fully functional member of society with a steady job, or other "good achievements" which will afford him enough status?

It's always a controversial question. Most of the time (anywhere it is asked) no one will reply. Other times it'll get glib replies, like "there's someone for everyone." Sometimes other folks seem to understand and they'll say "a low-functioning guy just has to put himself out there, that's the key, the other stuff doesn't matter as much as you think." I often challenge that reply also, but I'll say it's what I'd LIKE to believe, I hope it is right.

Sometimes though it gets very bleak responses, though, which is quite distressing. I really have a wide range of impairments; I certainly did not ask to be this way. Do I have to expect that inability to be a fully functional guy in society means my chances are exactly 0% indefinitely?