Why do love-shy men NOT want to show they like/love a woman?

[JA2007]

What would make you start liking him?

He has to be himself, no faking anything or caring too much what other people think. He has to show that he is interested in getting to know me, and that he is not desperate for a gf or someone to have sex with. It's the whole thing of liking my real personality, not just hitting on any girl that looks halfway decent. That usually means just being my friend first, because you can't know that you really like someone until after you get to know them. I want him to show he's interested in me, but is cautious himself because he has standards too.

A big turn off for me is when I see a guy try to get close to a girl right before or right after he tries to get close to me. Like he's going to keep trying until he finally gets a yes. Doesn't make me feel special.

 

[JA2007]

I'm terrified of approaching a female because I'm scared of being laughed at. I don't want her to joke about me or gossip with her friends about my misadventure. So is it as easy as you say? Wouldn't you find it funny if a shy guy came up to you and tried to get casual?

There is no guarantee that a girl won't make fun of you when you walk away. But there is no guarantee that she will either. There is no way of getting around this fact, so you might as well just do it. If you don't talk to someone there's a 100% chance that you won't be with her. If you do talk to her you have some kind of chance. Which is better?

I would not find it funny if a shy guy talked to me because I would realize that I was the only person he stuck his neck out for and that would be pretty damn cool! I like to feel special.

 

[Darkened]

I don't know what is worse: to show interest or the opposite. But in both cases I think there is a paradox .

In case of me taking the initiative, I would only do it to a girl I would know well, making sure she was a good person. But then there's the pressure of taking responsibility for the consequences of that action:
- considering a positive response, she would get some expectations and even if she knew me, she would probably expect a "shy" limited relationship, not a "social phobic" one. That would disappoint her and lead to a not so good "chemistry"...
- considering a negative response, that would be an uncomfortable situation and full of regret
The paradox: personally I wouldn't do it... since I've never had a girlfriend and I can only guess the advantages, I think there would be more to loose. I see sometimes people saying online that they've just finished a >5 year relationship and things like that... I think I wouldn't risk to hurt/disappoint someone after some time and I can't deal with the fact of opening my personal "details" do someone I'm not sure that will stay.

In case of being approached by a girl, I think would be worse... I would probably take evasive countermeasures and would think she was joking just to see my reaction or maybe taking part of a bet. I don't think I would react positively. A few years ago when I was a kid, I used to spent vacations at my cousin village and there were two girls (sisters) that used to show up and hang out where everyone used to play, like many others. One of them was quite shy too and there was some attraction between her sister and my cousin. I don't know if it was true, but that was a rumour that she liked me. One day one the other kids said to me that she asked if I would accept to date her, and I quickly said no... he was kind of a clown and I obviously didn't believe him. Besides, if it was not true, that would be embarrassing to me to say yes, specially to an idiot intermediary. Not that I would say yes anyway, because I didn't even know what to do and behave after that... I'm not saying I felt "love" for her, but she was nice looking and also a bit shy, not very "show off" style, I kind of like that.
After all I think it was not so bad, because it killed the tension and I didn't worry about it anymore, but I didn't felt good about being approached in such a way. Anyway, we were all kids, there's a lot of pressure and I don't date for sport, so I think I did the right thing.
Conclusion: I don't think I would react positively to a girl saying she likes me. I would probably enter a "internal panic" state and say something to get out of the situation. Also, I'm even more messed up now than when I was a kid...
The paradox: I don't even have female friends so the probability of a girl saying me that she likes/love me is quite null... and I had to reeeaaally know her very good before I even consider she was being sincere about it.

So, there you go... "Destined to be alone: the recipe". ::

 

[TooShyShy]

- considering a positive response, she would get some expectations and even if she knew me, she would probably expect a "shy" limited relationship, not a "social phobic" one.

Ok, can you...or anyone explain the differnce between dating someone who i shy, love shy and who has SA....

giving examples of all 3 would be great

 

[ShyMuppet]

My interpretation:


1. Shyness is just normal introversion and reticence. People who are shy feel uncomfortable in social situations, but tolerate them.

2. Love Shyness is an anxiety condition related specifically to intimate and romantic encounters. People who are love shy find it very difficult to initiate and pursue relations with the sex they are biologically attracted to.

3. Social Anxiety Disorder is a more severe form of 1 where the anxiety is so great that it leads to avoidance of social situations, which reinforces the fear & use of this coping mechanism. The anxiety can also be anticipatory, eg. just thinking about a stress-inducing situation before it has even occured can cause discomfort.

4. Avoidant Personality Disorder is an extreme combination of 2 and 3, where people fear and avoid any emotional intimacy and vulnerability. People with APD will often shun and sabotage relationships, even if they are lonely.


As with other things in life, the dividing lines are not black-and-white. I expect there are more and less severe cases of each and some crossover.

 

[Avery]

^

Those are good, succinct definitions IMO.

The key is that 'shyness' and 'love shyness' are *not* synonymous. Shyness is pretty much a personality trait, and occurs in a significant minority of people, to varying degrees of severity. Plenty of people have it, and most can manage it.

Love shyness, in contrast, is really quite serious. In the stronger cases, it means that the person is so anxious and fearful and ignorant of dating and sex that they avoid them entirely. Love shyness can and does result in lifelong virginhood and childlessness. Men suffer more from this than women, because cultural norms dictate that men must be aggressive in dating practices while women are receptive -- a love shy woman can simply assent to a man's advances to date, but a love shy man who never makes an advance will quite likely never date or marry. (Another decider is 'confidence', which is something women tend to look for in men -- even if a poor love-shy guy tries to get close to a girl, she'll tend to reject him (even if unconsciously) because of his awkwardness. 'Confidence' isn't really a big attractor for men, though.)

If you want to identify a love-shy on this forum (as opposed to someone with SA), look for those (especially men) who don't date, and have serious issues interacting with or approaching the opposite sex. Having never dated/had sex is a surefire sign, at least if the guy is up in years.

I'll use myself as an example: I'm 22, and have never dated, much less had sex. I've never even been close to a girl as just a friend as far back as I can remember. This despite the fact that in high school I was a good-looking guy (not being vain here -- my looks are shot, believe me). A sweet, beautiful girl had a crush on me my sophomore year and clearly wanted me to ask her out -- though I had a major crush on her, I never did, out of sheer anxiety over the whole thing. Even after she was obviously hurt because she felt I had rejected her, I couldn't bring myself to say anything. (My stock's only gone down since then, and if any other girl has been interested in me, she hasn't shown it, or I didn't pick it up. I probably wouldn't do anything about it, anyway.)

That's a good example of love-shy behavior: the perfect girl can come along, and a guy'll let her pass by due to pure inaction, in turmoil the whole time, as well as afterwards.

 

[TooShyShy]

Avery...

That's a good example of love-shy behavior: the perfect girl can come along, and a guy'll let her pass by due to pure inaction, in turmoil the whole time, as well as afterwards.

That is really very sad!!!! I suppose a man would know he has this, obviously if he's living like this..and without love/affection/intimacy..what can you do though.

So it would NOT help if you met a girl who was really wanting to be with you, wouldn't give up on you..and let you know that..why isn't that enough?

I am at such a loss ;(

 

[TooShyShy]

shymuppet..

thanks for that response..i guess what i needed to know is examples of DATING these types of guys love shys vs, SA'ers..?

Do they want to stay home all the time, meet your family ever..tell you they love you at all..can they show you...?

 

[ShyMuppet]

So it would NOT help if you met a girl who was really wanting to be with you, wouldn't give up on you..and let you know that..why isn't that enough?

...

Do they want to stay home all the time, meet your family ever..tell you they love you at all..can they show you...?

My SA is not that extreme. If a girl said those things to me, I would be able to share my feelings with her and my confidence would grow. It would take some time, maybe a few months, for my anxiety to subside. I would never pursue someone without that kind of "green light" though, and risk rejection.

Also, I'm not an outgoing person, but I could do all of those things you mentioned and more if I was with someone special. I think that most could, except those with severe SA and APD. I'd say your shy guy is in this category if he does actually like you - you won't know unless you talk to him again!

 

[Argamemnon]

Or at least have some feelings or an attraction for her? Why hide your feelings and not acknowledge them? What is the worry in the girl knowing this? Why hold back?

Is it better to live this way and watch, stare, fantasize about her from afar and be sad and lonely rather than let the girl know you are attracted to her?

Speaking for myself, I suffer from crippling social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder and chronic depression. Those are facts I have to live with, so I know I couldn't handle a relationship.

That's why I don't even bother. Even people who don't suffer from chronic depression may not be able to establish (romantic) relationships, due to their anxiety being crippling/debilitating.

It is something that nobody could understand (except those who have it). Even if I were in a relationship I would continue to suffer from social anxiety and chronic depression, so it doesn't really make a difference.

 

[no1]

Avery...

That's a good example of love-shy behavior: the perfect girl can come along, and a guy'll let her pass by due to pure inaction, in turmoil the whole time, as well as afterwards.

That is really very sad!!!! I suppose a man would know he has this, obviously if he's living like this..and without love/affection/intimacy..what can you do though.

So it would NOT help if you met a girl who was really wanting to be with you, wouldn't give up on you..and let you know that..why isn't that enough?

I am at such a loss ;(

it's not a total loss if the girl can be persistent perhaps. until you get a definite no, or it's just simply not working at all no matter how much you can try.

maybe sometimes the man just wants a woman to show that she will stick with him through the bad and good, thick and thin.

 

[Argamemnon]

Haha no I'm just a social outcast....no friends, or any chance of a decent job. While I'm not materialistic, 99% of women (people for that matter) are, so how am I to connect with anyone? No one wants a depressed reclusive loner, and you can't blame them either.

Exactly, same here. The truth is people like myself are not likeable at all. It has nothing to do with confidence or self-esteem.

 

[Argamemnon]

A big turn off for me is when I see a guy try to get close to a girl right before or right after he tries to get close to me. Like he's going to keep trying until he finally gets a yes. Doesn't make me feel special.

And what do you do to make men feel special?

 

[Kien]

Because then the girl will disslike you even more. She will be disgusted by you. I prefer to let the girl think I think she's like air rather than knowing that she is annoyed by my bare presence.

 

[WarInsideMyHead]

shymuppet..

thanks for that response..i guess what i needed to know is examples of DATING these types of guys love shys vs, SA'ers..?

Do they want to stay home all the time, meet your family ever..tell you they love you at all..can they show you...?

I guess with shy people after they get comfortable with u a relationship would prob be fairly normal.

With peole like me that have sa and love shyness even if i could manage to open up to someone and be in a relationship with them i cant imagine them being able to cope with my problems for long. I mean could a woman even enjoy being with a person who will nearly always not be able to foce themselves to go out to any social events with them and a thought that runs through my head all the time is could i even expect them to?

 

[TooShyShy]

can you give some examples...what kinds of things can't you do, what do you think in your mind thats so bad...

also, don't you think having love in your life would make you happier, less anxiety ridden..make you want to try harder, do more?

 

[klytus]

Well, TooShyShy, would you want to be together with someone who, say, will never go out with you, never go to a restaurant with you, never dance with you, very seldom touch you, almost never initiate anything, won't openly talk with you, won't want to get to know your friends, won't want to make new friends, doesn't have friends, always wants to be somewhere where no other people are, is only interested in very arcane things that are rather inaccessible for mere mortals, always talks about -boring- technical stuff, is very stubborn, very old-fashioned, very against the concept marriage and settling down, very against children, etc.? If not, then you wouldn't want to be with me. And you can imagine why no sane lady would want it.

Of course, the standard love-shy guy is certainly rather unlike me. But the general idea is that people who are, say, very shy, love-shy, or sociophobic don't do things that normal, healthy people constantly do for fun. So, if you can't do with someone the activities you need for having fun, would you actually want to be together with such a person? I wouldn't.

 

[Avery]

Avery...

...

So it would NOT help if you met a girl who was really wanting to be with you, wouldn't give up on you..and let you know that..why isn't that enough

Well, it actually would probably be enough -- but speaking for myself, I'd have to be absolutely sure about it. I'd have to be certain not only that the girl would say yes to my offer, but also I'd have to be secure and confident enough in myself that I could date her without feeling like a loser or an idiot. Nothing, after all, would be worse than mustering up the courage to ask her out, getting a yes, and then having my hopes dashed as she dumped me soon after.

That was the big problem I had in high school (to use my earlier example): I was self-conscious about tons of things. I didn't have a car or even a license so that I could drive her out on a date, I didn't have a job to pay for anything, I was afraid she'd think I was a loser because I had no friends, etc. I was simply too self-conscious to date her comfortably, even if I had asked her out.

Really, though, it's not as bad as it might first seem: I believe I was capable of dating then (and believe I am now), I just needed more prior assurance than a regular guy. The best thing she could have done would have been to try and make the first and early moves and spare me the threat of rejection, instead of waiting for me to act. But of course, she was playing by the standard rules of guy-asks-girl, and simply couldn't have known the depth of my anxiousness -- nor would it have been her responsibility to make allowances for it if she had.

 

[NothingElseMatters]

Well, TooShyShy, would you want to be together with someone who, say, will never go out with you, never go to a restaurant with you, never dance with you, very seldom touch you, almost never initiate anything, won't openly talk with you, won't want to get to know your friends, won't want to make new friends, doesn't have friends, always wants to be somewhere where no other people are, is only interested in very arcane things that are rather inaccessible for mere mortals, always talks about -boring- technical stuff, is very stubborn, very old-fashioned, very against the concept marriage and settling down, very against children, etc.? If not, then you wouldn't want to be with me. And you can imagine why no sane lady would want it.

there are some people that like challenges

 

[Artanis]

I think it comes down to the fact that love-shy men have incredibly low self esteem and we see ourselves in an entirely negative light. we have been repeatedly rejected and been made to feel unwanted - especially romantically... and because of that we don't want to have the girls or women we like see us that way too.

we would rather be ignored by that awesome pretty girl than be despised by her as we tend to despise ourselves...