What messages does your life experience tell you
- Thread starter KiaKaha
- Start date
Kiwong
Well-known member
Yes, the unkindness of others can develop and reinforce fears and beliefs. Unhealthy fears and feelings where pounded into me by my experience at high school, work and at university.
I guess I held onto those fears about appearance, about not being good enough until I was in my early forties. I started to have constant angry and worrying thoughts that looped about in my mind about how unfair it all was. How I hated my life, how I hated where I lived. I couldn't shut these thoughts up.
At age forty two, I had my first panic attack. And all those angry thoughts I was having were suddenly cut off in mid note. They all boiled over into the most frightening experiencing of my life. After my first panic attack fears then were:
What if that feeling like death comes back?
What is wrong with me?
Am I going to die?
I'm having a heart attack. why can't I breathe?
Thoughts about women and what they thought of me, my appearance, that nobody liked me where utterly irrelevant.
My health spiralled further and further down. I became completely debilitated. My thoughts were:
I have no future
I am not going to live beyond this year
What is wrong with me? Cancer, heart disease.
Why can't the doctors find an answer.
It was then when I had really hit rock bottom that I learnt to fight, I wanted to live ,and I demanded answers.
And somehow over a period of several years I dragged myself up and out of rock bottom, still left with a noticeable anxiety problem.
And it has been worth the fight because amongst this nightmare I lived the best days of my life. I've been happy, depsite everything. Probably because I had to fight so hard.
I guess I held onto those fears about appearance, about not being good enough until I was in my early forties. I started to have constant angry and worrying thoughts that looped about in my mind about how unfair it all was. How I hated my life, how I hated where I lived. I couldn't shut these thoughts up.
At age forty two, I had my first panic attack. And all those angry thoughts I was having were suddenly cut off in mid note. They all boiled over into the most frightening experiencing of my life. After my first panic attack fears then were:
What if that feeling like death comes back?
What is wrong with me?
Am I going to die?
I'm having a heart attack. why can't I breathe?
Thoughts about women and what they thought of me, my appearance, that nobody liked me where utterly irrelevant.
My health spiralled further and further down. I became completely debilitated. My thoughts were:
I have no future
I am not going to live beyond this year
What is wrong with me? Cancer, heart disease.
Why can't the doctors find an answer.
It was then when I had really hit rock bottom that I learnt to fight, I wanted to live ,and I demanded answers.
And somehow over a period of several years I dragged myself up and out of rock bottom, still left with a noticeable anxiety problem.
And it has been worth the fight because amongst this nightmare I lived the best days of my life. I've been happy, depsite everything. Probably because I had to fight so hard.
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KiaKaha
Banned
At the risk of annoying the forum with my perceived inane negativity. The reason I dont adopt a similar attitude to coyote's (with all due respect) is because I see it as a form of complacency or perhaps indifference. Sure it feels bad - but it also feels good because you are allowing your true feelings to be expressed.
I think its OK to feel like you have been treated unfairly - I think its OK to try and do something about it and to kick up a fuss, within the confines of what is rational... because then things might change....and they have changed before, but its also about being honest with yourself.
People dont seem to be particularly sympathetic on this forum and I think its because people think that they arent trying hard enough, perhaps in some cases maybe, but unless you have lived there life you dont know what it feels like to be them - and I think its a naive attitude to assume that just because you have more resilience then everyone else must do as well.
I will never adopt the attitude of "what will be will be" - its not me and I dont think it works. I think the reason why my philosophy makes people feel uncomfortable is because it makes people feel responsible for others - and that there is an implication that things are 'hopeless' which is not what I am saying at all.
I think its OK to feel like you have been treated unfairly - I think its OK to try and do something about it and to kick up a fuss, within the confines of what is rational... because then things might change....and they have changed before, but its also about being honest with yourself.
People dont seem to be particularly sympathetic on this forum and I think its because people think that they arent trying hard enough, perhaps in some cases maybe, but unless you have lived there life you dont know what it feels like to be them - and I think its a naive attitude to assume that just because you have more resilience then everyone else must do as well.
I will never adopt the attitude of "what will be will be" - its not me and I dont think it works. I think the reason why my philosophy makes people feel uncomfortable is because it makes people feel responsible for others - and that there is an implication that things are 'hopeless' which is not what I am saying at all.
Pacific_Loner
Pirate from the North Pole
Though I'm not a 100% sure that I understand all what you are saying, I can't help being bugged about the topic of your thread VS your actual post. You wonder "What messages does your life experience tells you" but your answer has nothing to do with your life experience and everything to do with how you perceive yourself in the eyes of others. Now I do think others has lots to do with life but I think there is more to it that you can get.
I think there is more to it than viewing yourself by how others treat you or react to you, but seriously, even if we know rationally that our self-worth shouldn't be based on these things, it still leaves the question of how to find that worth from within rather than from these external things. My life experiences tell me that I'm unlikeable because few have ever wanted to be my friend, much less date me, and that I'm a failure professionally because despite college degrees, no one will even interview me, and frustratingly I'm not even meeting up to the standards at my minimum wage jobs, though I am trying. I suppose our sense of self, and self-esteem, should have come from our parents/care givers when we were babies/children, but what if your parents were harsh, or even just indifferent, and looking to peers for assurance and affirmation just left you rejected, teased, picked on and ignored?
KiaKaha
Banned
I have to admit I did go on a tangent there for a second, I do have trouble expressing myself clearly sometimes.... but the crux of the matter is really about how our environment and life experience teaches us how we perceive ourselves, and that I think to be fair there should be an acknowledgement and understanding of this. What bugs me is is an unsympathetic view on people who have low self esteem or lack of belief in themselves.
I dont know what the answer is, I dont think I ever gave one - merely conjecture and speculation...and perhaps opinion, but everything that I believe pretty much feels like that anyway - is it nature or is it nurture? I cant read peoples minds so I dont know what people REALLY think, unless I come right out and ask, but even then it probably wont be completely honest - so I can only conclude about how I see myself in the eyes of others - and I make these conclusions just like everyone else based on my life experience.... based on how others have reacted to me.
I would imagine - that the external environment plays a big part in how you see yourself, your culture, upbringing, family, how people treat you etc... I mean... am I wrong here? What other factors are there that determine the kind of person you become and more importantly the way you feel about yourself?
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Opaline
1
Thank you for saying this. I have been trying to explain this to quite a few people for a long time.
I have been called a negative person more times than I care to remember. A couple people told me all I do is complain. This simply isn't true. These people who have said this have seen me at my worst times, so I guess they have formed the conclusion that this is the only way I operate. If you saw me at work you wouldn't think that. If you saw me with my friends you wouldn't think that. Or my boyfriend. And not to make it sound like "poor me, boo hoo", but I have a lot of hurt. That hurt has to go somewhere, I can't keep it inside me - then I would REALLY be a negative person. So I like to get it out.
And, even more than that, I have generalized anxiety - I am constantly on edge. I can only control this to a degree, mostly it is an automatic nervous system reaction; trust me, I've tried to make it stop. I'm a worrier. I think I need to be put on a sedative, but that's a different story.
I don't want to just sit in my room and cry and feel sorry for myself, but I can only keep trying so many times before I just feel defeated. And I do feel defeated. It's extremely painful. Then to be mocked for it, as I have been by a few others... well, it just makes me curl more into myself. I don't know what they expect me to do, honestly.
Anyway, sorry to go on about myself, it's just that what you said struck a chord in me. I am sick of people mocking me for feeling depressed. They have no idea how much it hurts. I'm not sure what I did to deserve it, either. I'm not perfect but I'm pretty sure I'm not a horrible person...
Opaline
1
Agreed. No one can seem to answer this question effectively. Which isn't their fault, but I'm sick of hearing "Oh, it has to come from within, if you don't love yourself first who will, blah blah blah." While I think that's true, the question is HOW??? Anyone have an answer? No? Well, that's why many of us are here.
I may be misinterpreting what you're saying, but my take on what I think you are saying is this:
We do formulate opinions and generalizations about the world based on what we see and the information that others present to us. However, people tend to process only those bits of information that align with what makes sense to them, and not those other bits of information that contradict. In the case of someone who thinks Asians are bad drivers, they are going to have that notion reinforced every time they encounter a bad Asian driver. But they aren't going to count all the times they see a good Asian driver (which they probably wouldn't notice anyway), or a bad driver of another nationality.
It is similar to the technique used by psychics, televangelists, etc. They throw out several possibilities---some are "hits", and some are "misses". The success of this method depends on the human tendency to discount those misses, and only give value to the "hits."
As for self-esteem and negativity, I think the same idea applies. If you are told enough times by different people that you are worthless or stupid or whatever, then you are going to tend to believe it, in spite of the fact that there are many more people who are NOT telling you those things, and maybe even some people who are telling you the exact opposite. But it's easy to believe those people who are dragging you down because some part of you wants to believe it, or because it's easier to rationalize those ideas about yourself.
I notice many people who say over and over that they have really bad luck in life. I don't believe that for a minute. They think that because they got into a fender bender or have a toothache or an illness, that they are unlucky. But they are discounting the hundreds or thousands of days when they weren't in a car accident, or didn't die in a freak accident, or when circumstances just happened to fall into place so that they actually ended up getting something they wanted or having a nice day. It's impossible to process all those intangible positives, and much easier to focus on the tangible negatives---but it doesn't make those positives any less real.
I consider myself a positive person simply because I choose to acknowledge that there are more good things in my life than bad. I don't know how I ended up as a positive person, since I grew up around very negative and judgmental people. Maybe it is in my nature, or maybe something has happened to me later in life to allow me to see things in a positive light. I don't know.
We do formulate opinions and generalizations about the world based on what we see and the information that others present to us. However, people tend to process only those bits of information that align with what makes sense to them, and not those other bits of information that contradict. In the case of someone who thinks Asians are bad drivers, they are going to have that notion reinforced every time they encounter a bad Asian driver. But they aren't going to count all the times they see a good Asian driver (which they probably wouldn't notice anyway), or a bad driver of another nationality.
It is similar to the technique used by psychics, televangelists, etc. They throw out several possibilities---some are "hits", and some are "misses". The success of this method depends on the human tendency to discount those misses, and only give value to the "hits."
As for self-esteem and negativity, I think the same idea applies. If you are told enough times by different people that you are worthless or stupid or whatever, then you are going to tend to believe it, in spite of the fact that there are many more people who are NOT telling you those things, and maybe even some people who are telling you the exact opposite. But it's easy to believe those people who are dragging you down because some part of you wants to believe it, or because it's easier to rationalize those ideas about yourself.
I notice many people who say over and over that they have really bad luck in life. I don't believe that for a minute. They think that because they got into a fender bender or have a toothache or an illness, that they are unlucky. But they are discounting the hundreds or thousands of days when they weren't in a car accident, or didn't die in a freak accident, or when circumstances just happened to fall into place so that they actually ended up getting something they wanted or having a nice day. It's impossible to process all those intangible positives, and much easier to focus on the tangible negatives---but it doesn't make those positives any less real.
I consider myself a positive person simply because I choose to acknowledge that there are more good things in my life than bad. I don't know how I ended up as a positive person, since I grew up around very negative and judgmental people. Maybe it is in my nature, or maybe something has happened to me later in life to allow me to see things in a positive light. I don't know.
Opaline
1
Well put! This is such a good point, I am guilty of focusing on the negatives. I could deny it but I would only be lying to myself.
KiaKaha
Banned
That's a good point - and one that I neglected to think about. I have read something similar in the past - about confirmation bias and believing (or perhaps noticing) things that you already believe to be true.... because it confirms what you already believe deep down. Its interesting - that the human mind seems to want to see the worst in things - I am unsure why this is.... or whether or not its just me that does this.
There is a very very strong chance of this thread heading into "victim mentality" territory which I would like to avoid, but I would like to say that I do think people have bad luck, more so than some others - and that every little thing seems like a big deal because they have had so much of it - but there is a fine line and I think identifying where that line is where some disagreement comes from. But really the original point I tried to make - was that I think some understanding of WHY people have these kinds of negative views about themselves came into fruition. I know that its not healthy and that its frustrating to deal with - but its understandable.
At least thats what I think.
You're lucky you came out that way - I didnt - I went the other way - but that doesnt mean I am so jaded that I hate everything and treat others like garbage because of resentment. Ironically I see it as a positive motivating force more than anything else.
Lea
Banned
Interesting thread. Good posts esp. Tally_Lyra, I feel like they always hit the nail on the head. I relate to most of what you say.
I don´t think it´s so much about conditioning, this is OVERRATED. It is easy to see why, just observe 2 children who didn´t even have time to pick up much if any conditioning, and are completely different. One is extroverted and fearless, talks to everyone. The other is shy and anxious. And they might have even been raised in equal conditions.
The problem is that most of us here very probably have autism spectrum disorder. That´s all, no conditioning.
I don´t think it´s so much about conditioning, this is OVERRATED. It is easy to see why, just observe 2 children who didn´t even have time to pick up much if any conditioning, and are completely different. One is extroverted and fearless, talks to everyone. The other is shy and anxious. And they might have even been raised in equal conditions.
The problem is that most of us here very probably have autism spectrum disorder. That´s all, no conditioning.
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SilentBird
Well-known member
Lea
Banned
Why are you asking that? Look at the list KiaKaha made at the beginning, it is all complex. There is no need to just pick up a sensitivity to criticism or blaming someone on victim mentality, it is all complex, can´t be singled out just one trait and separated from the whole. It is the whole madeup of autistic personality.
SilentBird
Well-known member
Lea, I don't know. I am sensitive to criticism where others may not be so sensitive. I don't know why. Yes, the issue of interpretating and processing messages is complex. I have followed this thread and it is too complex for me to understand. I am too simple.