People Who Don't Play Well With Others....

[Sinar_Matahari]

I think the main problem is that you(or many with SA) were not "trained" enough as a child.

Think about it. As a child you probably never naturally socialized with other kids. It was always structured in some way. As a toddler your parents brought you to a playground, introduced you to other kids. They may have told you to say hi to a certain kid or to share a toy.

I was definitely not trained enough as a child. I think my problem was that my parents didn't really bother to teach me how to socialize at all. They taught me how to be polite, but that's about it.

In elementary school there were those bonding exercises and the teachers probably tried to encourage socializing just like the parents did before them in a rigid fashion. By the time highschool comes and you can do what you want the training is already deep. I'm not putting parents or teachers down for this as it's probably a far better way to go then letting kids do what they want.

I'm going to have to give this some thought, because I can't seem to remember much of my elementary school years.

My point is most people get too well trained in the formal ways of socializing. The idea's and preconceptions of what to do and how to act become so entrenched and it makes them uneasy to handle a wrench in the works. That wrench being someone with SA or just someone who acts different. They can't get their heads around it and are put off by it.

Yes, there seems to be a generally accepted way of behaving, speaking and even thinking. Any conduct, way of speaking or belief which deviates from that norm is not always welcome and often met with hostility. Some even believe that one is being defiant if one does not share the generally accepted opinions, codes of conduct and are inclined to take offense.

 

[JamesSmith]

I think having a job is hell. How are people happy at work? Wouldn't they rather be doing something else? When I had a job, all I could think about was going home to sit in my room and watch TV.

I have the same mindset as you on this topic. My buddy's dad said he worked as a dentist for at least 50 hours a week and he said he actually was upset when he had to go home everyday because he loved every second of being at work. I was like you've got to be kidding me. I've never had a job where I wanted to be there at any time, and I've worked at least 10 different jobs. It's always only been about money for me, nothing more.

 

[userremoved]

I think the main problem is that you(or many with SA) were not "trained" enough as a child.

Think about it. As a child you probably never naturally socialized with other kids. It was always structured in some way. As a toddler your parents brought you to a playground, introduced you to other kids. They may have told you to say hi to a certain kid or to share a toy. In elementary school there were those bonding exercises and the teachers probably tried to encourage socializing just like the parents did before them in a rigid fashion. By the time highschool comes and you can do what you want the training is already deep. I'm not putting parents or teachers down for this as it's probably a far better way to go then letting kids do what they want.

My point is most people get too well trained in the formal ways of socializing. The idea's and preconceptions of what to do and how to act become so entrenched and it makes them uneasy to handle a wrench in the works. That wrench being someone with SA or just someone who acts different. They can't get their heads around it and are put off by it.

You make a good point here. I too was very sheltered as a kid, and my parents always taught me that I didn't have to talk to anyone I didn't want to. I stopped sharing too after my cousin broke my Thundercats and they didn't force me to share anymore either.

 

[lurknomore]

You make a good point here. I too was very sheltered as a kid, and my parents always taught me that I didn't have to talk to anyone I didn't want to. I stopped sharing too after my cousin broke my Thundercats and they didn't force me to share anymore either.

I wouldn't say I was necessarily "sheltered," but if I was it was self-imposed (and subconscious, not intentional). Most people assume that socializing is something that one learns naturally on your own- and you would think that I would have learned it having multiple siblings and a large extended family as well, but I was always the outcast even among them- not that I was excluded purposefully or maliciously, just that no one ever really made (and still doesn't) an effort to see that I was included. I feel like an alien around other people, even those that I've known for a while, like my family members.

 

[JamesSmith]

I believe in nature over nurture when it comes to social habits. I just believe you are either born with the ability to connect with others and desire to connect with others. It's this thing that I lack, I wasn't blessed with this ability and desire. My parents encouraged me to make friends but I usually didn't want to. They had me play sports so I could be around peers in the hopes of me making friends and I really struggled to make any friends.

 

[kihira]

I'm with you here. This is how I often feel at work. I don't like having time wasted, let me do my job well, then get home to family. Too much emphasis is placed on people's career-lives these days, and not enough on private-lives. Some people are their jobs.

I don't like sitting in meetings where discussion gets off course, or if the topics don't relate to my area of work; I don't like it when meetings are scheduled during lunch - I like to get outside away from it all (at least they feed us. I suppose); I don't mind "Hi, how are you" with co-workers, but I don't feel they have to be done every day. I've been asked inanely "how are you going today?" and when I replied, the asker looked at me blankly, having forgotten within moments what they had said; I hate irrelevant training, I refuse to do training that takes me away from home overnight, I despise thoughtless icebreaking activities that are conducted out of habit rather than need.

 

[Xylia]

Hmm... I understand where you're coming from as I've had some extreme personality changes throughout my life. I used to be social/nice and now I find it difficult, because it feels like an exhausting chore.

My old ways probably came from my upbringing. My Grandma, being an old fashioned perfectionist Japanese woman (she's half Japanese / Palauan, but grew in Japan), strictly imposed her ways on me. She taught me to have polished manners and to say thank you or please all the time (sometimes too much :/). Also, my mom is bubbly and my stepdad is a business man. Being polite and nice came naturally to me. I was also kind-hearted (and still am). I was hardly the kind of person who would say "How are you?" and walk away without caring about the answer. I cared a lot about what people were up to and I wanted to make sure everyone felt included. Whenever I approached people who weren't as social, I saw it as a challenge to get to know them. I would greet them and not get much of a response, so I would ask what they're up to and they would shun me away. I was thrown off by the way they acted, but I still made more of an effort than the average person to get to know them. And if I was rejected enough times, I would just give up and move on. I wasn't Mr. Rogers nice or anything, but I was one of those people who you would probably consider to be overly nice and social. I was probably annoying to some, too.

So, now the roles have switched. I gradually developed a certain thought process + a habit with drug use at some point in my life that led to severe anxiety. Being my old self feels fake to me, because it doesn't match how I'm feeling inside anymore. I quit approaching people and if they approach me, a part of me wants to come up with an excuse to get the hell out of there.

I believe philly is right... that we're either trained or not trained to be this way. You may think these people are artificially nice & overly social, but believe it or not, it comes naturally to some people (it did for me at one point). In my case, I unintentionally trained myself to have this anxiety and now I'm feeling the opposite of who I was. I did manage to retain a little bit of my old social habits, though. I remember what it felt like when someone smiled at me or acknowledged that I was there. So while I may not be feeling my best right now, I still force myself to smile when I can. I agree, it does get tiring to act in a way that doesn't feel natural to you, but if I acted the way I feel inside, people would be scared of me. Should I care? No, but last I recall, being an antisocial bitch doesn't get you too many friends. People flock to people who have an aura of confidence & positivity. Also, if you ever wanted to get to know someone... how would you initiate the process? As much as I would like things to be this way, you can't just approach a stranger and start talking about deep, meaningful things. You start off with hi or good morning... then go from there. Maybe these people at work want to get to know you badly and that's why they keep bugging you. You don't have to respond to them if you don't want to. If it does become a huge problem, maybe during one of those pow wow meetings you can mention what you said in your OP, "if I have to make an effort to consider people's feelings and be "nice" (please do not mistake with "kind) when it does not come natural to me, then people ought to make the effort to consider the fact that I may not be feeling like a thuper, duper happy camper." Maybe they will understand and leave you alone.

 

[hoddesdon]

Xylia is absolutely right. That was very good.

Just as the thought processes of someone with social phobia is a mystery to others, equally theirs are a mystery to that person. Consequently the behaviour the thoughts produce are mutually unfathomable.

 

[JamesSmith]

I'm not mystified at all by outgoing people. I know how they think: eliminate fear and anxiety from our minds and bodies and we are exactly like them.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

... Some people are their jobs.

I can understand if a person really loves their job. I don't dislike my job, but I'm there for a paycheck, a measure of self-satisfaction and sense of achievement. I do like my co-workers. I do enjoy working with my talkative and outgoing co-workers. The ones who like to laugh and make people laugh. It makes the time go by easier and it makes work fun. On the other hand, I don't mind the more quiet co-workers because there are times when I would rather be quiet and do my work.

I don't like sitting in meetings where discussion gets off course, or if the topics don't relate to my area of work; I don't like it when meetings are scheduled during lunch - I like to get outside away from it all (at least they feed us. I suppose); I don't mind "Hi, how are you" with co-workers, but I don't feel they have to be done every day. I've been asked inanely "how are you going today?" and when I replied, the asker looked at me blankly, having forgotten within moments what they had said; I hate irrelevant training, I refuse to do training that takes me away from home overnight, I despise thoughtless icebreaking activities that are conducted out of habit rather than need.

Now, I don't mind eating and working. I do enjoy my food more when I eat in silence, but I also wouldn't mind lunch and a meeting. Something about eating while I work seems to make my brain work better. However, there are times when I am tired and hungry. If I'm both then I easily become cranky and just want to sit and eat in silence. Those are the times when I do not wish to converse with anyone or do anything other than stare off into space while I eat my food in peace. This isn't SA-related. I can and don't mind being social and talkative, but there are times when I'm just not in the mood. However, I've been making an effort. But I'm happy to know that one of my co-workers, one with whom I will be working closely, understands where I'm coming from. I'm with you on the thoughtless, icebreaking activities. I have never been comfortable with them. I don't feel that I have to break the ice at all. There will be some discourse eventually when everyone is ready so there is no need to force it.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

Hmm... I understand where you're coming from as I've had some extreme personality changes throughout my life. I used to be social/nice and now I find it difficult, because it feels like an exhausting chore.

That's the case with me as well. Not for the most part, but I do have my moments where I don't want to talk or interact with anyone. It doesn't cause me anxiety, it just seems like a bother at times. Sometimes I don't have anything to say, I'm tired, in a quiet mood or need to focus on whatever I'm doing.

My old ways probably came from my upbringing. My Grandma, being an old fashioned perfectionist Japanese woman (she's half Japanese / Palauan, but grew in Japan), strictly imposed her ways on me. She taught me to have polished manners and to say thank you or please all the time (sometimes too much :/). Also, my mom is bubbly and my stepdad is a business man. Being polite and nice came naturally to me. I was also kind-hearted (and still am). I was hardly the kind of person who would say "How are you?" and walk away without caring about the answer. I cared a lot about what people were up to and I wanted to make sure everyone felt included. Whenever I approached people who weren't as social, I saw it as a challenge to get to know them. I would greet them and not get much of a response, so I would ask what they're up to and they would shun me away. I was thrown off by the way they acted, but I still made more of an effort than the average person to get to know them. And if I was rejected enough times, I would just give up and move on. I wasn't Mr. Rogers nice or anything, but I was one of those people who you would probably consider to be overly nice and social. I was probably annoying to some, too.

So, now the roles have switched. I gradually developed a certain thought process + a habit with drug use at some point in my life that led to severe anxiety. Being my old self feels fake to me, because it doesn't match how I'm feeling inside anymore. I quit approaching people and if they approach me, a part of me wants to come up with an excuse to get the hell out of there.[/QUOTE]

I find it interesting that some people's anxiety disorders seem related to past drug use. It goes to show that drugs affect us a lot more than we think they do that they can at the time we consume them. Even marijuana (heavy use) has been known to worsen existing or even latent disorders.

Overall, I find that I am now more comfortable being myself in the sense that I don't feel that I have to be sweet, or super nice to people when it is not spontaneous. I used to be a sweetheart when I was younger. I thought that this was the way I was supposed to be and that this is how people would like me and respond to me best. Now, if I'm nice or sweet then it's going to have to come from the heart. If that means I'm not going to smile or talk in a sweet tone of voice then so be it. This doesn't mean that I'm going to be a bitch to people (for no good reason) either. I'm just going to behave in a way that is natural for me.

I believe philly is right... that we're either trained or not trained to be this way.

You may think these people are artificially nice & overly social, but believe it or not, it comes naturally to some people (it did for me at one point). In my case, I unintentionally trained myself to have this anxiety and now I'm feeling the opposite of who I was. I did manage to retain a little bit of my old social habits, though. I remember what it felt like when someone smiled at me or acknowledged that I was there. So while I may not be feeling my best right now, I still force myself to smile when I can. I agree, it does get tiring to act in a way that doesn't feel natural to you, but if I acted the way I feel inside, people would be scared of me. Should I care? No, but last I recall, being an antisocial bitch doesn't get you too many friends.

People flock to people who have an aura of confidence & positivity. Also, if you ever wanted to get to know someone... how would you initiate the process?

Yes, I used to be a very negative, angry person and I noticed that people didn't want to be around me as much and my self-esteem suffered as a result. I can't say that I blame them. Angry pessimists have an aura that can fill any room with palpable negativity. It's a mood killer. I'm more happy with life in general and this reflects in how my social circle has expanded in the past three years.

As much as I would like things to be this way, you can't just approach a stranger and start talking about deep, meaningful things. You start off with hi or good morning... then go from there.

I don't actually have a desire to talk about deep topics with people I don't know well. I have to really connect with a person at a higher level to be able to do this. I am irritated when others mistake my behavior, facial expression or tone as unfriendly when it's neutral. I'm irritated by those who would expect me to act in a way that does not come natural to me at the moment. Let's say I'm in a really ****ty mood, I won't take it out on people, but I won't look or sound affable.

Maybe these people at work want to get to know you badly and that's why they keep bugging you. You don't have to respond to them if you don't want to. If it does become a huge problem, maybe during one of those pow wow meetings you can mention what you said in your OP, "if I have to make an effort to consider people's feelings and be "nice" (please do not mistake with "kind) when it does not come natural to me, then people ought to make the effort to consider the fact that I may not be feeling like a thuper, duper happy camper." Maybe they will understand and leave you alone.

I've given all of this consideration over the past couple of days and I decided that I'd make an effort to be more considerate of how people react to my behavior. I have to reiterate that I won't be bending over backwards, but I will do as much as I can. Whenever I think that someone may have misunderstood my actions or speech, I will address this at an appropriate time. I've already done this with one co-worker. Your idea to address this at a meeting is a very good one. The only problem is that my bosses are not the type to like this sort of attitude. Being super friendly is something which they expect from me (even when I'm not feeling it), and I think this is an industry-wide standard. I'll just have to take it up with individual co-workers when necessary and appropriate. This could potentially become a huge problem so I'm going to stop it in it's tracks.

I was highly irritable when I started this thread and I can't say that I wouldn't back up what I wrote because I still believe it to be valid to an extent. Yet, I know that I have to learn to get along with people and sometimes play by the rules. This means that I have to learn to be more flexible and when it's not too much trouble. I know that I won't always be able or willing to to do so, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

Xylia is absolutely right. That was very good.

Just as the thought processes of someone with social phobia is a mystery to others, equally theirs are a mystery to that person. Consequently the behavior the thoughts produce are mutually unfathomable.

I'm going to have to agree with James. I wouldn't say that I'm mystified by the behavior of outgoing people. I can be outgoing and there really is no mystery to it. It's all about my mood, my environment and the people around me.
"Overly social" may just be my perception, but sometimes I'm just not in the mood or don't have the time for it. I can't always accommodate people. I can try most of the time, but not all the time and there will be times when this behavior will irritate me. I'm only human.

 

[Minty]

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that I don't care how I make people feel?

Not at all. I said that others don't really care how your day went or what you do on vacation. They don't care because they're not your friend yet and that's just how we operate as human beings. But they ask anyways because it's the nice thing to do.

I was just trying to explain why people behave the way they do in the work place and that they're not necessarily being fake.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

Not at all. I said that others don't really care how your day went or what you do on vacation. They don't care because they're not your friend yet and that's just how we operate as human beings. But they ask anyways because it's the nice thing to do.

I was just trying to explain why people behave the way they do in the work place and that they're not necessarily being fake.

Ah. Okay. I wasn't offended or anything, btw. Just wondering.

It's occurred to me that "How are you?" has become a rhetorical question. Maybe we shouldn't take it too serious. However, when I ask someone how they are doing, I want to actually care enough to want to stick around for the answer.

 

[coyote]

Everyone I've ever known has wished me well
Anyway that's how it seems, it's hard to tell
Maybe people only ask you how you're doing
'Cause that's easier than letting on how little they could care
But when you know that you've got a real friend somewhere
Suddenly all the others are so much easier to bear

from The Late Show, by Jackson Browne

 

[JamesSmith]

I've noticed people tend to not care as much about what shy people are talking about. When we did presentations in public speaking in college the shy people were paid less attention to than the outgoing people. My sister had a big problem with this. In junior high she came home crying about how the audience just "shut down" and stopped paying attention when she was up there. I'm not saying it's always like this, but it's a common occurance. Of course you can have the opposite effect if you never say anything, and then all of the sudden you say something people listen more than they normally do. It does depend on the situation and the person. Unfortunately, looks matter as well. People tend to pay attention more to attractive people over ugly people.