Mental message?

[madmike]

It's worse when I'm hungry or magnesium deficient, so eating something helps, omega 3 is really good too.. (nibbling pumpkinseeds for magnesium & zinc as I type ) a cocoa can help me calm down too.. observe yourself.. get informed..

Also, the anti-SA 'Step by Step' approach might be helpful for you? The guy who wrote it calls these thoughts 'ants' and 'lies' Really helpful imagery... You mustn't believe those lies, and gotta fight'em off..

The book Meeting People is Fun partly addresses these/similar thoughts too, and Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People too.. Or Feel the Fear & Do It..

CBT can be helpful too.. Or even just looking at this forum - many people here have SA & still do BRAVE things!!

It's funny you should mention zinc and magnesium. When i was younger i developed this problem where my finger nails became sort of uneven and rough, and my doctor (homeopathic) recommended zinc. So i started eating a lot of pumpkin seeds and it solved the problem quite quickly. Now i've got a problem where if i don't sweat on a regular basis my skin goes really itchy (usually just when i'm about to start sweating) and i read online that magnesium can help. I started taking it but to be honest forgot about them after a while and i'm not sure if they helped or not...

But yeah, it's interesting anyway. I do think diet affects us a lot i just wish i knew more about how. Do you have any thoughts on meat? I've more or less completely stopped eating it now to see how that affects my mood, etc. Can't say i've noticed much yet though... maybe a bit more motivation lol...

 

[JosephG]

madmike and Feathers:
I am with you guys on the diet front! I have virtually stopped eating dairy and stopped drinking fizzy drinks/anything with caffeine and my physical symptoms of anxiety have decreased by a noticeable margin! My trembling is barely noticeable, my palpitations are much rarer and I have much less panic attacks. I also feels like I have much more energy and have a better sleeping pattern (I think this is also in combination with vitamans and exercise!)
It is remarkable sometimes what a change in diet etc can do for you! All I need to do now is cut down on the computer use XD And I can't see that happening any time soon!

 

[madmike]

madmike and Feathers:
I am with you guys on the diet front! I have virtually stopped eating dairy and stopped drinking fizzy drinks/anything with caffeine and my physical symptoms of anxiety have decreased by a noticeable margin! My trembling is barely noticeable, my palpitations are much rarer and I have much less panic attacks. I also feels like I have much more energy and have a better sleeping pattern (I think this is also in combination with vitamans and exercise!)
It is remarkable sometimes what a change in diet etc can do for you! All I need to do now is cut down on the computer use XD And I can't see that happening any time soon!

Haha computer's the hardest, if only my whole life didn't revolve around it! You actually can't even do uni work anymore without a computer. I find that the backlight can really irritate my eyes as well, even after only 1 or 2 hours on it, so i know its definitely not good for me...

I've also given up coffee by the way, actually makes me tired and seems to worsen my facial twitch... and i've tried to go back to a diet i was raised on (whole grain foods, fresh foods not processed, no meat and no sugar- i haven't managed the no dairy yet though). My parents put me on the diet to combat allergies i had and it worked wonders, so i kept it up until i was 12 at least when i started eating sweets and stuff behind my parents back.

It's definitely important, but since i was raised on it i'm also convinced it's not going to solve anything on its own... unfortunately :/

 

[Snowdrop]

I feel real most of the time (in extreme anxiety which is much rarer recently I have depersonalisation etc and feel detached from myself which is really scary).
If you mean do I feel normal? Then no. I don't feel like a normal person. It's like I am missing something: the ability to think freely about things which aren't about my problems. Constantly analysing, thinking about what is up with me, how I can improve whilst others are probably wondering whether bacon would taste nice with ice cream haha.

I go through most of what you described above. I like you am afraid to offend people. So I won't say what I really think (when I do actually have a mental response to something!) or I won't say it because it might be disagreeable with someone (doesn't fit in with their character).
However I think this is a good thing! A disagreement in views is always a good format for a conversation because both parties get to discuss their differences of opinion and learn about eachother. I wish I could apply what I've just said at the time and just do it! haha

I hope what I posted above is coherent. I am at the moment starting to lack coherence in the things I am saying (probably because I do not say that much at the minute!)

Don't worry I like long replies! I think mine is longer XD

It is very coherent I don't feel normal either but I guess when I say not 'whole' I mean do you feel like you're not who you're supposed to be? I think I only say this because I never used to be this way and therefore am naturally attached to the person I believe I am truly, before any of this craziness started xD.
I am constantly analysing though, I probably am even in here! I'm just not conscious of it at the moment lol.

 

[JosephG]

It is very coherent I don't feel normal either but I guess when I say not 'whole' I mean do you feel like you're not who you're supposed to be? I think I only say this because I never used to be this way and therefore am naturally attached to the person I believe I am truly, before any of this craziness started xD.
I am constantly analysing though, I probably am even in here! I'm just not conscious of it at the moment lol.

Yes I totally feel this. I question who I am. "Who am I exactly?" "Am I being myself?" "Is this me?"

And I've kind of forgotten who I really am as a person because of all the anxiety, doubting and most of all when I try and act.

I often try to act and try and be the normal social guy. and in the process have been like testing out different personalities on display if you will (don't want to sound like I have split personality disorder or something lol). But like a kind of experiment to see what's me.
This I think has made me confused as to who exactly I really am. Like I am unsure of my opinions on certain things etc

You feel any of this?

Oh and my life is just plain analysis. Wish I could shut my brain off and think about silly topics funny topics!

 

[Snowdrop]

Are you sure you're not me?? Lol, seriously! I feel all of those D: and even the split personality thing, don't worry about that I always get paranoid I'm not who I'm supposed to be. I question who I am all the time, sometimes I'll think I'm plain crazy, other times I'll think rationally and think I'm only thinking this way because of SA/depression/depersonalization whatever I feel like labelling it at the time. If that makes any sense? lol. I'm also unsure of what I feel about things, like my opinions and stuff. I always thought that was me being crazy lol. I mean if you like something you like it, simple as that but it's not for me :S.
And I still remember who I was technically, like how I used to think and stuff, but trying to think like that now? Impossible.
I am always acting though, because for me, I can't find any other way to 'work out' who I really am. I tend to try and look at things from all kinds of different perspectives to see which is the 'best' one. And so, it's what goes through my mind when I'm talking to different people.. ok, I'm pretty sure I sound like a crazy person now lol.

Oh and I wish I could too sometimes xD. But at the same time, I feel like I can't shut it off until I get to the bottom of this deep mystery.

 

[JamesSmith]

I find it hard to disagree with people too.. Like I completely disagree with what the person has said but don't have the confidence to argue my point.

Actually, to not disagree with people is a fantastic quality in most cases. If you read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People, he speaks about how to let someone think they are right when someone is talking about something, especially when you are in a group. People usually want others to think they are smart, so people love talking about how much they know. If someone is wrong about some pointless thing, like the score to a sporting event or something like that, let them think they are right. It will make them like you more because it boosts their confidence and keeps the conversation going in a positive direction cuz they feel smart. When you tell someone they are wrong, it takes things into a possible argument mode, because many people do NOT like getting their pride hurt and told they are wrong about something they think they know. Of course, if someone is wrong about something very important, then you should disagree. Use your instincts on when to agree or disagree.

 

[JosephG]

Are you sure you're not me?? Lol, seriously! I feel all of those D: and even the split personality thing, don't worry about that I always get paranoid I'm not who I'm supposed to be. I question who I am all the time, sometimes I'll think I'm plain crazy, other times I'll think rationally and think I'm only thinking this way because of SA/depression/depersonalization whatever I feel like labelling it at the time. If that makes any sense? lol. I'm also unsure of what I feel about things, like my opinions and stuff. I always thought that was me being crazy lol. I mean if you like something you like it, simple as that but it's not for me :S.
And I still remember who I was technically, like how I used to think and stuff, but trying to think like that now? Impossible.
I am always acting though, because for me, I can't find any other way to 'work out' who I really am. I tend to try and look at things from all kinds of different perspectives to see which is the 'best' one. And so, it's what goes through my mind when I'm talking to different people.. ok, I'm pretty sure I sound like a crazy person now lol.

Oh and I wish I could too sometimes xD. But at the same time, I feel like I can't shut it off until I get to the bottom of this deep mystery.

It sounds like our SA and Shyness are virtually the same. It is quite comforting to have someone out there who is going through almost exactly the same thing as me!
Everything you mentioned above is what I go through on a daily basis!
The acting thing is getting to me at the minute. Perhaps If I worked out what "being myself" was I would be able to naturally respond to conversation. But instead I have to think first "What would I say if I was like this etc" or I have to think to say something to please the other person.

also I did some "mental CBT" as I call it. I haven't gotten round to writing anything down on paper as yet but I will. But I found the following:

If I think that I'm going to do badly before I have a conversation I will also think I'm doing badly during a conversation. This leads to me analysing the conversation after I've had it.

If I have forgotten about my Shyness/SA and have no negative thoughts before a conversation I tend to be absorbed in the conversation and have no bad thoughts. After the conversation I feel good about the exchange.

So for me I think the key is to work out how to silence the anxiety ridden intrusive thoughts that won't go away.

Suppose that's the hardest part though ey..... just theorising and stuff here, ignore me if I am babbling!

 

[Snowdrop]

Not babbling at all in fact, it makes me think. I'm sure it is just our crazy SA/insecurities making us think we are talking unimportant stuff right? xD

I have found that too, just today in fact at college I was able to have a laugh and talk to mates without needing to think or feeling too anxious (obviously I am never NOT completely anxiety-free). Whereas the day before I was hunched over working at my desk, not making eye contact or barely talking to anyone, there was nothing I could think to say. Sometimes even on here I'll begin to post something but then leave til days later to finish just because I can't think of how to say it at the time, and I realize it is not normal but there isn't anything I can do to fix it. It fazes me what influences these change in behaviour though. Maybe it IS as simple as just not thinking as much?Maybe if we carry on going like this, it'll gradually become natural for us? Yeah, now I'm theorising xD

I can act like a confident social person as well. Some people think that being capable of going out to clubs/films with friends, whatever, is sociable and a 'sign' of being overcoming SA or whatever but I don't think that's true because you can't really be cured especially if you are still thinking all sorts of negative thoughts inside...There are all kinds of SA and for us I think we are just very good at acting, keeping up facades ::

 

[JosephG]

Not babbling at all in fact, it makes me think. I'm sure it is just our crazy SA/insecurities making us think we are talking unimportant stuff right? xD

I have found that too, just today in fact at college I was able to have a laugh and talk to mates without needing to think or feeling too anxious (obviously I am never NOT completely anxiety-free). Whereas the day before I was hunched over working at my desk, not making eye contact or barely talking to anyone, there was nothing I could think to say. Sometimes even on here I'll begin to post something but then leave til days later to finish just because I can't think of how to say it at the time, and I realize it is not normal but there isn't anything I can do to fix it. It fazes me what influences these change in behaviour though. Maybe it IS as simple as just not thinking as much?Maybe if we carry on going like this, it'll gradually become natural for us? Yeah, now I'm theorising xD

I can act like a confident social person as well. Some people think that being capable of going out to clubs/films with friends, whatever, is sociable and a 'sign' of being overcoming SA or whatever but I don't think that's true because you can't really be cured especially if you are still thinking all sorts of negative thoughts inside...There are all kinds of SA and for us I think we are just very good at acting, keeping up facades ::

I love all of what you have said It relates to me greatly!

The last paragraph I feel is particularly important. I appear VERY sociable on the outside. I am always at parties/clubs/social gatherings and seen with people and I think I can often (I stress often because there has been sometimes where I have completely lost it) pull off a pretty good sociable act.

This completely confuses some people however! Because they expect me to be sociable and then find me very quiet - they start to think I am arrogant and being different to them individually. I do however think that a lot of my friends suspect something is a miss. Specially my best friend. He knows all about it. But I guess the people who have ideas about what I'm going through could never really understand. I think most people just expect you to be sociable and that if you aren't there's something wrong with you.

But yeah as I was saying before - I will go to these events and appear sociable but I never am. The stuff going through my head and the way I "perform" is certainly not sociable.

I mentioned I lost it once before... this one time I had to lock myself in the bathroom at a party and was leaning against the sink sweating and shaking. It took such an effort to go back out. I went straight to the garden and sat on my own and had a cigarette - a girl came outside who I didn't really know and told her all about it. Turns out she was quite understanding but I still regret telling her...


and I also feel what you feel with posting here. Some days I just can't post or reply to people etc because I simply cannot piece together correctly what I want to say. It's like I have lost confidence in what I am writing is coherent or will make sense. Or I just can't get it out...

anyway much of the above is a bunch of random points I suppose - but yeah again. Just theorising and going over stuff to help me understand myself better. I'm sure many people here could relate...

 

[Snowdrop]

I love all of what you have said It relates to me greatly!

The last paragraph I feel is particularly important. I appear VERY sociable on the outside. I am always at parties/clubs/social gatherings and seen with people and I think I can often (I stress often because there has been sometimes where I have completely lost it) pull off a pretty good sociable act.

This completely confuses some people however! Because they expect me to be sociable and then find me very quiet - they start to think I am arrogant and being different to them individually. I do however think that a lot of my friends suspect something is a miss. Specially my best friend. He knows all about it. But I guess the people who have ideas about what I'm going through could never really understand. I think most people just expect you to be sociable and that if you aren't there's something wrong with you.

But yeah as I was saying before - I will go to these events and appear sociable but I never am. The stuff going through my head and the way I "perform" is certainly not sociable.

I mentioned I lost it once before... this one time I had to lock myself in the bathroom at a party and was leaning against the sink sweating and shaking. It took such an effort to go back out. I went straight to the garden and sat on my own and had a cigarette - a girl came outside who I didn't really know and told her all about it. Turns out she was quite understanding but I still regret telling her...


and I also feel what you feel with posting here. Some days I just can't post or reply to people etc because I simply cannot piece together correctly what I want to say. It's like I have lost confidence in what I am writing is coherent or will make sense. Or I just can't get it out...

anyway much of the above is a bunch of random points I suppose - but yeah again. Just theorising and going over stuff to help me understand myself better. I'm sure many people here could relate...

By the way, just sayin don't feel the need to reply (i mean, sometimes I feel like I have to reply as well as if it might offend people ), I just like comparing thoughts XD. Helps me understand myself better as you said...

I don't think I appear very sociable. People can tell I am a very quiet person but not "shy", funnily enough...When talking to someone even someone much older than me I can act as if I'm confident/uncaring sort of, whereas inside it is of course a huge conflict going on.
But I will still go to clubs, see friends even though inside I would much rather stay at home... I feel like doing this though, keeps up the facade, the 'person' that I want to be, normal and doing what other teens my age would do. I feel like if I stop doing this, it will make it all the more true and real for me that I am not normal.

So I don't think anyone realises what's going on with me exactly, they just think I'm quiet and innocent lol.

I feel like you're pretty brave to be able to tell a girl about your problems - I could never do that, but maybe I am just a very private person. I guess I'm also scared of what other's will think.
I do regret telling the people I have told about myself though, but in a weird way it also helps me cope, like at breakdowns. Do you know what it was that started your breakdown? You don't have to say if you don't want to ::

I'm sure people could relate here, but...I dunno, as I say, I sometimes doubt what I really have and I often think I'm different to everyone else in terms of what's wrong with me. Sounds kinda arrogant, but I've been looking at it like my own little problem since the beginning.

 

[JosephG]

By the way, just sayin don't feel the need to reply (i mean, sometimes I feel like I have to reply as well as if it might offend people ), I just like comparing thoughts XD. Helps me understand myself better as you said...

I don't think I appear very sociable. People can tell I am a very quiet person but not "shy", funnily enough...When talking to someone even someone much older than me I can act as if I'm confident/uncaring sort of, whereas inside it is of course a huge conflict going on.
But I will still go to clubs, see friends even though inside I would much rather stay at home... I feel like doing this though, keeps up the facade, the 'person' that I want to be, normal and doing what other teens my age would do. I feel like if I stop doing this, it will make it all the more true and real for me that I am not normal.

So I don't think anyone realises what's going on with me exactly, they just think I'm quiet and innocent lol.

I feel like you're pretty brave to be able to tell a girl about your problems - I could never do that, but maybe I am just a very private person. I guess I'm also scared of what other's will think.
I do regret telling the people I have told about myself though, but in a weird way it also helps me cope, like at breakdowns. Do you know what it was that started your breakdown? You don't have to say if you don't want to ::

I'm sure people could relate here, but...I dunno, as I say, I sometimes doubt what I really have and I often think I'm different to everyone else in terms of what's wrong with me. Sounds kinda arrogant, but I've been looking at it like my own little problem since the beginning.

Sorry it took me a long time to reply. I haven't had much time to the past few days. I've been revising for an interview and I had a girl come over last night which was like ultimate stress mode. But it wasn't catastrophic like I imagined - still a failure though. Which has led me to a depressed state But I'm going for a jog in a bit to help ease the pain...

I'm not totally sure what caused my breakdown. The realisation that everything wasn't good with me came before christmas. This is when I had what I consider a breakdown. But I think I'd always had problems with stuff. I definitely suffered from depression for a year or two. I'd used weed to escape a lot of the time which hasn't helped. and I remember always having issues with socialising.
I think what caused the paranoia/depression was my mum being made ill with cancer when I was very young. And I didn't understand what was going on - though she was going to die etc. This caused me to be a bit weird in school so I got bullied. This led me to SA/Shyness/Depression/avoiding people.
Somehow I didn't really realise I had difficulties with shyness until before christmas. The breakdown was just a big realisation of what I was. And from that point onwards I lost nearly all of my ability to converse and a slow steep learning curve has begun in which every day I am climbing and fighting to get over it. With some minor victories and losses.....

hope that was coherent.
What caused your breakdown?

and yeah I sometimes feel like I am on my own. It seems a lot of people here would have a lot to say. It's just they are limited by their anxiety of getting past that barrier. Where as I am the other way round I feel. My mind is just constantly blank. It's ****.

 

[Snowdrop]

Yeah sorry for the late reply too...things have been pretty hectic for many reasons. If it's worth anything, I'm sorry about feeling depressed. It is so easy to fall into that and so difficult to shake the feeling. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as you thought it was though, cliche as it sounds, when I feel better after depression I realize things weren't so bad. And if it was bad at least it wasn't SO bad.

Yeah it was coherent.
I'm sorry to hear what you've been through in the past too... It sounds like you have a real reason to feel the way you do now though. I totally get what you mean when you say you just happened to realize this even though you've felt depressed for a long time. Same for me too. It happened about 3-4yrs ago now that I realized it, I don't know what happened, I just realized my life wasn't going the way I wanted. I remember shaking and whatnot. Telling my mum about it. Nothing I can think of started it, maybe it's an innate personality trait.
And yeah, since then it's been a downward spiral although I would always entertain myself with the thought that I would get better/was getting better..

I know what u mean, people having a lot to say. I will have some things to say sometimes but most of the time it seems like a blag. Other times I haven't the faintest idea what to say. Especially around social people, I'm like a goldfish, opening my mouth but nothing no words coming out.

 

[JosephG]

Yeah sorry for the late reply too...things have been pretty hectic for many reasons. If it's worth anything, I'm sorry about feeling depressed. It is so easy to fall into that and so difficult to shake the feeling. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as you thought it was though, cliche as it sounds, when I feel better after depression I realize things weren't so bad. And if it was bad at least it wasn't SO bad.

Yeah it was coherent.
I'm sorry to hear what you've been through in the past too... It sounds like you have a real reason to feel the way you do now though. I totally get what you mean when you say you just happened to realize this even though you've felt depressed for a long time. Same for me too. It happened about 3-4yrs ago now that I realized it, I don't know what happened, I just realized my life wasn't going the way I wanted. I remember shaking and whatnot. Telling my mum about it. Nothing I can think of started it, maybe it's an innate personality trait.
And yeah, since then it's been a downward spiral although I would always entertain myself with the thought that I would get better/was getting better..

I know what u mean, people having a lot to say. I will have some things to say sometimes but most of the time it seems like a blag. Other times I haven't the faintest idea what to say. Especially around social people, I'm like a goldfish, opening my mouth but nothing no words coming out.

well I hope things get better for you! I really feel for you and others living through this nightmare. It seems we have a lot in common Which is very comforting.
I feel this curse of an illness has made me empathise a lot more with shy/quiet people and be more open to people who may be appear aloof/arrogant out of shyness. Which I suppose is a positive out of all of this.

I think the first indication of anxiety for me was the shaking which you mention! At the time I had no clue about anxiety disorders etc but I was always shaking and getting "sick" at social occasions. I at one point thought I had parkinsons :/ But yeah like you said since then it has been somewhat of a downward spiral.

I have contacted my Doctor and I am starting counselling and hopefully leading on to CBT properly this time. I tried a few months ago but couldn't muster the courage. I hope this will help me on to my way to freedom. I hope you find the way to yours

I would like to finish this post with expressing my interest in knowing how you get on with things and my hope that things get better for you I feel we are similar in what we experience as I have expressed before.

 

[Snowdrop]

Thank you Yeah it's weird but comforting how similar we are XD
You've no idea how many 'theories' I've been through, depersonalization, derealization.. lol. For some reason though, I've noticed a theme with my 'breakdowns', it's always an emphasis on me being somehow "behind" from everyone else and everyone else advancing ahead of me. Maybe it's 'cause it feels like I've got the brain of a 13yr old when everything started for me heh.

I wish you all the luck in the world for counselling and CBT. Really hope it works for you