Marrying someone with SA

[JodyFoster]

Hey guys, I have this friend who I am pretty sure has SA and he knows it, but he's just super reluctant to discuss it. When I try discussing it with him, he's like yeah I already know all this. Now the thing is over the years I have gotten really close to him. I didn't realise it but he's really important to me. Now recently my boyfriend of a year proposed to me and I said yes, but ever since I did, I can't stop thinking about my friend. I think about him all the time and I wonder if I am making a mistake not being with him. I have always wondered this because the only thing that deters me is his complete lack of social skills and lack of confidence in himself. He lets people push him around. My family is also pretty dismissive/at best sympathetic towards him. I hate that. We never argue and he always succeeds at cheering me up. Aside from the intense social awkwardness and extremely low self esteem, there isn't a thing I would change about him. What do you think? Should I take this super massive risk and break my engagement and try to stake it out with my friend instead? Would it be worth it? I just feel he needs me more. Does being in a relationship improve sa? Does it give you the confidence you need? Do you think he will improve? Also most importantly, if I tell him my feelings and he says yes I can improve, give me a chance, should I believe him, or is there a chance that he won't be able to keep his promise, try as he might, plunging himself into deeper depression. I don't want him to turn into smooth talker of the year, just want him to be able to better assert himself. Will having me in his life help with that? Thanks so much!

 

[MikeyC]

If you are having second thoughts on your current engagement, that is a bad sign. You could break it off with him, but just understand that you will be breaking his heart in the process.

Does your socially anxious friend and your fiancee know each other? If so, then you don't have to see him behind his back, even though that is not morally right since you're after something more from him, but...well, what he doesn't know won't hurt him. Yet.

All I can suggest is that you should talk to your friend more and see where he stands. Do you think he likes you back? He might do, but his lack of confidence is shielding those emotions from coming out. He might not feel worthy of your love and attention. Perhaps you could also discuss his emotional issues and try to get a gauge of where he's at there, and if he's willing and able to take steps to improve them.

Getting a girlfriend is not an instant remedy of depression, so no, I don't think he's going to improve fully, but he might be happier if it's what he wants. Overall, communication with him about what he wants and, when the time is right, what you want, is imperative.

I just worry about your fiancee because there are going to be some broken hearts in this love triangle....

 

[JodyFoster]

Well you're right, I will be breaking my finance's heart. But when I think about who I'd like to spend the rest of my life with, I feel he's just not the one. So in a way I'm being fair to both of us considering all this now instead of after we are married and both stuck. He can sometimes be so judgmental, my fiancé. He doesn't know my friend very well, but he tends to make fun of him for being socially inadaquate, something that I find very unnerving, and I always tell him off. My friend is way smarter And more sensible than my fiancé and he knows it. But he still treats my fiancé with a lot of respect although he doesn't get the same from him. He's smarter than me, but he just isn't confident enough. My fiancé and most other men, can be so cocky although they're actually not even that smart. Most boys will show off and exaggerate their merits. But not this guy.
So is it fair that just because he is socially inept he should not get all the happiness that everyone else gets by being confident? I know that he likes me and he feels he is not worthy of saying anything! He just doesn't see himself capable of taking the responsibility of being in a committed relationship much less marriage.
Sometimes I feel Maybe I can convince him otherwise but I really don't know. Once long ago, I know he used to try to flirt With me, but then I started dating this guy and he gave up without even having tried. I don't know, it's all really confusing. I thought it's best for both of us to just remain friends but now I am confused.

 

[Odo]

He can sometimes be so judgmental, my fiancé. He doesn't know my friend very well, but he tends to make fun of him for being socially inadaquate, something that I find very unnerving, and I always tell him off. My friend is way smarter And more sensible than my fiancé and he knows it. But he still treats my fiancé with a lot of respect although he doesn't get the same from him. He's smarter than me, but he just isn't confident enough. My fiancé and most other men, can be so cocky although they're actually not even that smart. Most boys will show off and exaggerate their merits. But not this guy.
So is it fair that just because he is socially inept he should not get all the happiness that everyone else gets by being confident? I know that he likes me and he feels he is not worthy of saying anything! He just doesn't see himself capable of taking the responsibility of being in a committed relationship much less marriage.
Sometimes I feel Maybe I can convince him otherwise but I really don't know. Once long ago, I know he used to try to flirt With me, but then I started dating this guy and he gave up without even having tried. I don't know, it's all really confusing. I thought it's best for both of us to just remain friends but now I am confused.

You know, I'm trying to be impartial here but every fiber of my being is routing for the guy you're not engaged to. I can't help it-- I think it's because I identify with him and I absolutely despise cocky 'alpha' types… not sure if your fiancee is one of those, but yeah. I despise how they can be successful without really trying. I despise how they put others down to get what they want. I despise how they make the world an overall shittier place because they take pleasure in hurting others, and also make that the norm. I despise how they always get what they want, even when they don't deserve it.

To be honest I'm not sure what kind of future someone with SA could ever give you… it's not something that tends to lead to a lot of success in life, and to be even more honest, speaking as someone who has a lot of issues, I completely understand why more people aren't interested in me. But I definitely wouldn't want someone to love me out of pity… that would be awful, and I'd rather be alone.

I think you need to ask yourself whether you're doing what's right for you or if you're doing what everyone else expects you to do. It could be that you're just nervous about the whole thing, which is fair enough. I don't know your friend… but for me, I'd probably be willing to do pretty much anything for someone I was in love with, and that includes suffering through things I didn't want to do… just because I would want to show that I'm willing to do that for her. I wouldn't do it if I felt like it was a lost cause… I mean, there's love and everything, but I still have to think of myself and be realistic about things. What do you think that your fiancee would do for you? Or are you more likely to end up like a trophy or a sign of his/your own 'normalcy'? Again-- are you doing this because it's what you want or because it's what's expected of you?

Maybe I'm way off here, but yeah… if you come onto a site full of frustrated 'beta' types and ask them whether or not you should be with the alpha or the beta, they're not going to pick the guy they've spent their whole life losing out to.

 

[JodyFoster]

The reason why I am asking here is, I want to know if it is worth taking this risk for him? I can't ask him because he is so reluctant to talk about it. But what do you guys think? My fiancé is not a **** really, but he represents how the rest of the world sees my friend. I feel he'll be sad and heartbroken but eventually he will find another girl. Sounds a little cruel but I can't help it that somehow I care more for my friend than my fiancé it seems. I've known my friend a lot longer than my fiancé, so when it comes to a decision that lasts forever, I cannot not take him into consideration when the only thing that has prevented us from being together has been my own long stand aversion to dating him based on "people will judge me". As it turns out, I don't care what people think as much as I thought I would. He's socially very incompetent but he's a great guy once you get to know him. If you know him you realise that aside from the social incapacity he is smart astute and gets exactly how people see him but has learned to graciously live with it, he could've been bitter but he's not. It's all so confusing I wish it was easier!
If he likes me maybe I should give him a chance? I know he hasn't expressed himself but I know why. It keeps eating at my heart which must indicate something. Ever since I've gotten engaged he's been happy and supportive but also reluctant to discuss it too much. Which is unlike him, we discuss everything. I just feel it's so unfair, If I marry now, I'm gone forever, and all because he's not confident enough? Hope this makes sense.

 

[Littlewilly]

You sound to me like a very nice person & although you are probably rather reluctent to break off your engagement to your fiance because you know it may or will break his heart for a time & you said he will eventually find another girl, it sounds to me as though you would rather be with your SA friend but hopefully not because you feel sorry for him because that wouldn't be right you do it because as I said earlier I think you would feel more comfortable with him & maybe in time he will become more comfortable in opening up to you with his SA or whatever is on his mind that keeps him clammed up.

I wish I could find someone like you.

 

[mismeek]

I would just be careful that you don't get it in your mind that dating him with improve him or "fix" him. I've dated people with anxiety and low self esteem and it can wear on you after a awhile... :/

 

[Opaline]

What I'm going to say is going to be unpopular here, but that's not going to stop me from saying it.

If you're having doubts - serious doubts - about the engagement, I would say you should end it. Who wants to get married with a nagging feeling of ambivalence? If you're feeling that way now, imagine how you'll feel a year into your marriage. Two years. Three? By then you may hate the guy's guts because you weren't completely into him from the beginning.

The second thing is, think really hard about this guy you like with SA. All of us here have SA for the most part (although I am under the assumption you do not), including me, so I understand what it's like to struggle with it. The thing is, though, that while you may be able to overlook his lack of confidence and poor social skills now (which, frankly, seems odd to me - that doesn't really bother you?), it's most likely going to become more of an issue after the initial infatuation wears off. Whether people like to admit it or not, people on the whole do tend to be attracted to confidence in others; but even more importantly, they are turned off by a lack of it. Maybe not right away (although usually it seems to be right away), but over time I'd be willing to bet it will come to wear on you and you'll yearn for someone who can take charge and make you feel feminine. Again, very unpopular thing to say here and I will probably get blasted, but so be it. I don't prescribe to the "women and men are equal to the point where they behave almost exactly the same and look for all of the same traits in each other".

Either way, I wish you luck with your decisions and hope it turns out well for you

 

[neardeath]

any doubts? Walk now.

Don't get married unless you are so in love you can't stand to be apart and you know without a doubt this is the one. This kind of love is real and out there, and you should hold out for it!

Don't do it because of anyone else's needs. Be head over heels.

Best wishes!

 

[vj288]

If you are not willing to take your friend as he is, I wouldn't take him at all. He can change, but that doesn't mean he will. Most of your questions about his improvements would be dependent on the root of his social issues, everyone is different, even on this site. You know the guy better than any of us, and we can't tell you what to do.

Based on what you're saying though, first it sounds like either you're starting to get cold feet about the wedding, or you simply do not like the guy your with or settling for him. If either of those are the cases, you may want to seriously consider breaking off or pushing back the wedding, despite whether or not you end up trying to be more than friends with your friend.

Dating your friend won't "fix" him though. He may plunge into a deeper depression. Relationships bring out a whole new wave of insecurities he'd have to deal with. I may give him confidence, or it may have no effect on it whatsoever. If you ask him to improve for you, he can try but it doesn't mean he will succeed. It would definitely put a lot of pressure on him, things that may seem easy to you are impossibly hard to him. Every person is different, reacts different ways to things, is effected in different ways.

You just have to be willing to take him how he is. He sounds like a great guy, you may not want to try to change him. Plenty of people with poor social skills and a lack of confidence live happy lives, and can find people to be happy with.

 

[MikeyC]

A lot of people here have said that if you're unsure, to break off the engagement. I am leaning to support that, because you will end up resenting him after spending too many years with him.

Maybe this other guy is not for you, either, but it does seem like you should give him a shot if you're more attracted to him.

What I'm going to say is going to be unpopular here, but that's not going to stop me from saying it.

If you're having doubts - serious doubts - about the engagement, I would say you should end it. Who wants to get married with a nagging feeling of ambivalence? If you're feeling that way now, imagine how you'll feel a year into your marriage. Two years. Three? By then you may hate the guy's guts because you weren't completely into him from the beginning.

The second thing is, think really hard about this guy you like with SA. All of us here have SA for the most part (although I am under the assumption you do not), including me, so I understand what it's like to struggle with it. The thing is, though, that while you may be able to overlook his lack of confidence and poor social skills now (which, frankly, seems odd to me - that doesn't really bother you?), it's most likely going to become more of an issue after the initial infatuation wears off. Whether people like to admit it or not, people on the whole do tend to be attracted to confidence in others; but even more importantly, they are turned off by a lack of it. Maybe not right away (although usually it seems to be right away), but over time I'd be willing to bet it will come to wear on you and you'll yearn for someone who can take charge and make you feel feminine. Again, very unpopular thing to say here and I will probably get blasted, but so be it. I don't prescribe to the "women and men are equal to the point where they behave almost exactly the same and look for all of the same traits in each other".

Either way, I wish you luck with your decisions and hope it turns out well for you

This post is really good, and here's why: sure, maybe the social anxiety in him isn't an issue. What about in six months time when he's bailed out of yet another social function that you were dying to go to? Will you still have the same attraction to him?

Also, Opaline is right in that girls are attracted to confidence. No, not ****s, which can seem like it overlaps, but confidence. Your fiancee now has that, so do you really believe this other guy can gain some?

Overall, though, this is your decision and I hope it works out well for you, whatever you decide to do. Think about who truly makes you happier and go for it. I guarantee you wouldn't be the only girl in the world to break an engagement for another guy.

 

[Odo]

Also, Opaline is right in that girls are attracted to confidence. No, not ****s, which can seem like it overlaps, but confidence. Your fiancee now has that, so do you really believe this other guy can gain some?

It's interesting how you know what she's attracted to better than she does.

Personally, I think the whole 'all girls like xxx'/ 'this is what you should want' attitude is probably one of the biggest reasons people end up with the wrong person. A lot of people are told what they're supposed to like and aren't strong enough to go after what they actually like because they're afraid of what people might think.

 

[MikeyC]

It's interesting how you know what she's attracted to better than she does.

Personally, I think the whole 'all girls like xxx'/ 'this is what you should want' attitude is probably one of the biggest reasons people end up with the wrong person.

Well, I didn't tell her what she likes, but I'm telling her that it's what most girls tend to become drawn to. I don't know the OP.

I'm not confident in myself, and I've had girls attracted to me, so obviously that's not a concrete rule.

Also interesting that j-e-r-k is now filtered. mg:

 

[Opaline]

It's interesting how you know what she's attracted to better than she does.

Personally, I think the whole 'all girls like xxx'/ 'this is what you should want' attitude is probably one of the biggest reasons people end up with the wrong person. A lot of people are told what they're supposed to like and aren't strong enough to go after what they actually like because they're afraid of what people might think.

No one is telling her what she is attracted to. We're saying that MOST girls are attracted to that, and for evidence you can just look around you and see how things are in relations between the opposite sex. A lack of confidence is often viewed as a sign of weakness and therefore a turnoff. But there are plenty of women who don't see it as an issue, I'm sure. I'm just saying that after a while she may become weary of his lack of self-esteem. I've seen it happen before. But she won't know unless she experiences it, so she can give it a try anyway and see what happens. Maybe it will never become an issue for her.

If she really does like the other guy more and isn't bothered by the issues she mentioned, she should go for it and let both of them be happy. It doesn't matter what others' opinions of what traits are desirable or not, obviously.

 

[Odo]

I'm not confident in myself, and I've had girls attracted to me, so obviously that's not a concrete rule.

It's a huge generalization brought on by the human need to conform, actually. A lot of people are alone because they think that they should only want one thing when another thing would probably make them a lot happier. I guess how you appear to others is important to a lot of people and nobody wants to be stuck with someone that their obviously awesome and open-minded family belittles all the time, because then it's like they themselves are being belittled... which, as lovely as it is, isn't the most positive way to live your life.

 

[MikeyC]

It's a huge generalization brought on by the human need to conform, actually. A lot of people are alone because they think that they should only want one thing when another thing would probably make them a lot happier. I guess how you appear to others is important to a lot of people and nobody wants to be stuck with someone that their obviously awesome and open-minded family belittles all the time, because then it's like they themselves are being belittled... which, as lovely as it is, isn't the most positive way to live your life.

Family is a big influence on who you're with, especially if you get along with your family well. It's not always the case, of course.

 

[Odo]

No one is telling her what she is attracted to. We're saying that MOST girls are attracted to that, and for evidence you can just look around you and see how things are in relations between the opposite sex.

I'm just not sure what the point of saying that is. If you 'look around', you'll see that a lot of people are overweight, too. That doesn't mean that everyone should aim for being fat.

 

[Odo]

Family is a big influence on who you're with, especially if you get along with your family well. It's not always the case, of course.

Yes, but that doesn't mean their influence is positive and you still have to be your own person. I know that if I took my parents' advice all the time I would probably be extremely unhappy.

 

[MikeyC]

Yes, but that doesn't mean their influence is positive and you still have to be your own person. I know that if I took my parents' advice all the time I would probably be extremely unhappy.

Whether the influence is positive or not, when growing up, it's our biggest influence. Once we reach maturity, we can start to see flaws in their wisdom, but it's up to us to determine whether the influence is positive or not. If we get along with our parents, it's more likely that we'll view them as being a positive force.

Anyway, this is getting a little off-track so I'll stop it here.

At the end of the day I hope the OP makes the right decision, whatever that might be.

 

[Opaline]

I'm just not sure what the point of saying that is. If you 'look around', you'll see that a lot of people are overweight, too. That doesn't mean that everyone should aim for being fat.

Who said anything about aiming for anything? I'm saying that based on my observations and things I've heard from women and men alike, women tend to eventually tire of a lack of self-confidence if they didn't already find it unappealing. That's all. I'm not telling the OP how to feel, what to look for, etc., I'm simply saying to keep in mind it could happen because it's very common that it DOES happen, and that there are biological reasons for it (for example, a woman looking for a male to be strong, socially and otherwise, and able to provide for her, etc.).

Anyway yeah like Mikey said, last I'll say on the topic. I'm sure the OP will end up following her gut in the end.