Just out of curiousity - which is more attractive

[coyote]

humility and arrogance are opposites

both have to do with how you view yourself in relation to others

an arrogant person believes they are better than others - a humble person does not

confidence has nothing to do with your relation to others

it's all about your relationship with yourself

a confident person can be either arrogant or humble

i don't think humble confidence is all that rare

(i think EscapeArtist and i just said the same thing)

 

[KiaKaha]

I dont know,

I dont seem to be able to figure this stuff out - its so confusing to me. Seriously.
I hate being viewed as someone who lacks confidence - when really all I see is being humble (most of the time - I mean lets face it, I *do* play a pretty mean Uke) - but really I look at these kinds of concepts from the outside looking in - not the other way round.

What is the point of confidence if people dont see you as confident? If you are a humble, fairly modest person who is confident then it seems to me people are not going to view you as someone who is confident...

I think it is possible for sure - there is fine line between the two, but its often blurred and mistaken - and it doesnt at least to me, SEEM like it is particularly valued...

the only thing that I see that is valued and respected is behaving like a complete and total arrogant tool.

 

[hidwell]

When you're confident you feel good about yourself inside, from within, and you don't really care how other people see you from the outside - other people's opinions become irrelevant.

With that analysis, Margaret Thatcher comes to mind.

 

[KiaKaha]

Yes but in the perspective of what is attractive.

It's difficult to be humble and at least "appear" confident. The reason I thought confidence was so important was not just to support the belief in yourself but also to allow and encourage a more positive reaction from others - or is that an incorrect premise.

 

[GhastlyCC]

I say Humility is more attractive.

 

[Richey]

A healthy balance of the two is ideal.

Confidence: Often comes with blind arrogance and naive assumptions of "how to approach tasks". Tunnel vision opinions.

Humility: Often comes with humour, empathy, friendliness, scope, but lack of confidence in approaching tasks.

But that is all a very generalised way of looking at it.

 

[Lea]

Yes but in the perspective of what is attractive.

It's difficult to be humble and at least "appear" confident. The reason I thought confidence was so important was not just to support the belief in yourself but also to allow and encourage a more positive reaction from others - or is that an incorrect premise.

I think with confidence it´s the same as with honesty. You don´t do it just in order to appear attractive or to get some positive response for it. Because if you do, it´s no longer genuine. If you want to be confident just in order to appear attractive, it in fact demonstrates the opposite - inner insecurity. (nothing personal again).

 

[Kiwong]

Humility is a wonderful trait, coupled with confidence can make wonderful things happen

 

[KiaKaha]

I think with confidence it´s the same as with honesty. You don´t do it just in order to appear attractive or to get some positive response for it. Because if you do, it´s no longer genuine. If you want to be confident just in order to appear attractive, it in fact demonstrates the opposite - inner insecurity. (nothing personal again).

Yeah - I know that. It's already been established that sometimes people behave in an amiable way as a tool for manipulation.
But what if it is sincere - with no agenda.

Appearing confident (even when you are not) - is just as important, or at least - so I thought. Is it not the social glue that holds you together to live life with relative comfort and ease?

People keep telling me that confidence is attractive - it draws people to you, but if you are also humble - would that not mask the affect of any confidence you have? I mean - looking at it from the outside....

I dont know...I probably just dont get it. I never seem to. I need answers... that make sense to me.

I am more interested in how it is perceived from the outside rather than a feeling from within - I think ones presence and how people react to each other has a LOT to do with all of this stuff.

I am getting some interesting responses from people on a (far less forgiving) forum than this one when posed with the same question.... maybe I will post it... if anyone cares I mean.

 

[Lea]

Well, you are the way you are. I have no answers than to just be yourself.. that´s what I´m doing too btw. What else also. I can´t give myself as an example of radiating confidence , because only my face alone looks so naive and vulnerable that I don´t even need to do anything for people to perceive me as inconfident and probably easy to take advantage of. But what can I do with it, nothing, just have to keep some common sense and don´t let them do it if I can..

 

[coyote]

I dont know...I probably just dont get it. I never seem to. I need answers... that make sense to me.

this is what i find frustrating

you asked a valid question and were given many very valid answers - most of which said the same thing, but you categorically reject anything that doesn't fit in with the viewpoint that you've already established for yourself

so it leads me to probe for answers myself...

1. are you really asking questions? or are you trying to prove your point?

2. what is your point exactly? that you have a valid reason for feeling like the world is against you, holding you back, making you suffer, and that there's nothing you can do about it but wallow in despair?

3. do you want the rest of us to climb on the bandwagon with you?

4. why? to pity you? or to pity ourselves?

and most importantly...

5. how on earth does that help? how does it help you? how does it help anyone?

 

[Kiwong]

Humility is the power to be confident but not find the need to brag about it.

People who excell in something and have a knowledge or skill to share, but are humble about it are often seen as role models.

Both qualities can be attractive

 

[bcsr]

coyote posted almost word for word what i was going to say. so.. yah.

 

[Lea]

Humility is the power to be confident but not find the need to brag about it.

People who excell in something and have a knowledge or skill to share, but are humble about it are often seen as role models.

True.

As for getting positive attention and being liked by others, nobody can be liked by all people. Especially if some people are jerks who judge superficially, who don´t have developed the ability to appreciate inner qualities of people. But why do you care about positive evaluation from people who don´t have enough qualities themselves in order to appreciate you?

You should know your qualities yourself and if others appreciate them, good. If they don´t, they don´t.. not the end of the world..

I think also some abillity to let go is necessary and not dwell on things we can´t change..

 

[KiaKaha]

All I am trying to do is understand what confidence really means and why I dont seem to be able to pull it off - apparently. I find it interesting that depending on where you go and who you ask, the answers are different. What does that suggest?

1. are you really asking questions? or are you trying to prove your point?

Sometimes I ask questions - sometimes I want to prove a point. You make it sound like that thats a bad thing. With this particular thread, I am seeking information. I am not rebuffing for the sake of rebuffing - I am just not convinced which is why I am seeking more information. I am quite happy to accept an answer for what it is provided it's substantial and has enough weight to overcome my suspicion - that is not to say that I am not grateful for any information provided - there have been plenty of times in the past where it has. I dont mean any offense by apparently not accepting the answers given - its just that a lot of the time the answer raise even more questions - quite often what i see in the observable real world contradicts what I see written on the forum.

2. what is your point exactly? that you have a valid reason for feeling like the world is against you, holding you back, making you suffer, and that there's nothing you can do about it but wallow in despair?

Not exactly - but yeah, I do feel that there is a valid reason for feeling like the world is against certain kinds of people. I do believe that the world DOES hold people back and that I have never stated that people should wallow in despair - but if they do, its completely understandable. I dont advocate for a victim mentality. Never have.

3. do you want the rest of us to climb on the bandwagon with you?

Yep - then perhaps instead of complacency, indifference and rationalizing everything to the point of neutrality, maybe things would be more fair (yes thats right, I said fair) things would change and perhaps we would start caring about things that are outside of what immediately effects us. Some have more than others - and its only our attitude and mindsets that keep it that way.

4. why? to pity you? or to pity ourselves?

See above - but whats wrong with a bit of sympathy in a while? To a point yes - but sometimes people only need to know that their feelings have been acknowledged, rather than having their problem "solved." People arent logical creatures, we are emotional ones - sometimes its good to keep that in mind when helping people.

5. how on earth does that help? how does it help you? how does it help anyone?

I am well aware that I am the purveyor of my own anguish a lot of the time. Sometimes it doesn't help - but despite that, it can be seen as a motivating, powerful force. If someone pity's themselves - sure its pathetic, but do they do it because they are seeking validation and undying sympathy? perhaps - but more importantly they also do it because its a response to past issues that have not had the time to heal or have had closure. That isnt to say that its helpful, but it should be understood. It should be noted that not everyone deals with adversity the same way. There are different thresholds that each of us have - but we all still need to face it - and if one crumbles and the other one doesnt then there is a reason for it. Not everyone is as strong as someone that does.

I hope that I answered your questions - I can elaborate if you wish.

Thanks for the feed back to the thread.

 

[vj288]

"Quiet confidence" comes to mind, which fits well with humility

This the first thing that came to mind when saw the thread, to me it seems like the most attractive, a mix of confidence and humility. And I agree with everyone else that said they aren't mutually exclusive values.

Like if you are running a race let's say, I think humility would be knowing you may lose, but confidence is knowing you can win. Think of the Tortoise and the Hare, the hare had 0 humility and no respect for the tortoise at all. He was very, very confident though. Why wouldn't he be, he's much faster than the tortoise and he knew it. He ended up losing though, because of it. Slow and steady wins the race, the tortoise knew what he was capable of, and didn't try to do anything more. He knew sure well that he could have lost too,he was confident in his abilities as well though, his strategy.

Both the tortoise and the hare had confidence, I don't think there's any question that that is an attractive quality. Humility keeps that confidence grounded, and in the long run is better for you. And personally, I find it more attractive. Humility+confidence is better than just confidence. The boastful hare cares all about his image, and caring about your image so much isn't attractive. In the real world, that confidence without humility is found to be attractive to people, because confidence is an attractive quality, but I think you can have too much of it. Different people think differently though I'm sure. In being so confident a person is putting themselves out there, and forcing themselves to prove themselves. If the Hare had won many would have thought "wow, he was right, he is a much better racer than that slow tortoise!" I think that ideology is more attractive to those who view the world as "dog eat dog" though, and that being the best, prettiest, fastest, strongest, funniest, whatever is all that matters.

Different things attract different people. Just be yourself and you'll attract people who like the qualities you hold. Neither is more attractive objectively,it depends on who you are asking. I like quiet confidence, another may find loud boastful confidence with the abilities to back it up more appealing.

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

I'd have to say confidence. Confident people have a self-assuredness that makes them attractive to others. It affects the way they act, they way they speak and the way in which they carry themselves.

Humility is an admirable trait, but I don't think it's one that actually attracts people. (And I'm talking about attraction in a general sense here, not specifically sexual attraction.)

 

[coyote]

You make it sound like that thats a bad thing.

no, the only bad thing is when it comes across as manipulative, i.e. "passive/aggressive"

i wonder if that's the problem you've encountered with being "nice"

what you may think is being nice isn't really perceived as nice at all if it is manipulative

similarly, trying to act in a way you think is confident isn't really perceived as confident at all if it is really arrogant condesencion

so the problem is not in how others view you - it's in how you act (or think you're acting) in the first place

which is exactly where we tend to disagree (and where i think you misunderstand me) - many of our issues are in our own head.

we THINK we're ugly, stupid, worthless, ignored, etc.

we THINK we're being nice, humble, confident, gracious, funny, etc.

we THINK the world should be a certain way, that events should happen a certain way, that our lives should go a certain way

while you assume that those thoughts are valid and look for an external cause (someone or something to blame), i am suggesting that those very thoughts we have about ourselves ARE the problem - that they're NOT necessarily valid, that we should question their origin rather than taking it for granted that they're true, and - most importantly - that we can change them

i'm not suggesting that people become indifferent or complacent about their social problems - not at all

i'm saying that the best way to correct them is to change our own thinking about ourselves rather than trying to change something beyond our control

or worse yet, throw up our hands and do nothing because we think it's someone else's fault.

i enjoy discussing these issues with you, it helps me to formulate my own thinking much more clearly

i hope we can continue the dialogue

peace, and good luck

 

[XxXWhiteRoseXxX]

I think a good combination of both is attractive

 

[ForeverTheWeirdKid]

Man.... great discussion.