Is it our fault?

[worrywort]

This is one thing I'd really really love to know? Is it our fault? Where do we put the blame? Do you think our social problems are of our own making? Or do you think it's an entirely chemical/genetic condition that we would have got even if we'd made brilliant choices our whole lives?

Cause the way I see it is like this. Imagine our brains are computers, and your computer is running really really slow and all the other computers tease it for being retarded!....then one day a super-antivirus program swoops in and tests all the computers and it finds that your computer has a massive virus. So the antivirus program totally clears your system of the virus, and then suddenly it turns out that your computer can actually run 10 times faster than all the others!!! Wouldn't that be bloody beautiful!!!?!!

But then again, it also seems nowadays that the slightest flaw in your personality and you can blame it on some kind of disorder. i.e. if you're lazy, you can blame it on ADD. If you're an alcoholic you can blame it on your addictive personality disorder. If you're obese you can blame it on your low metabolism.

But at what point should we stop blaming our lives on our "neurons" and start taking responsibility for ourselves?

Personally, I'm [annoyingly] still undecided. I have a very black and white brain, and I'd love for someone to tell me that it's entirely NOT my fault! But I suspect, like most things in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[powerfulthoughts]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react. I think that social fear comes from lack of proper training in parenting; possibly neglect, severe over protection (mom always talks for me!) , abuse, laughing or mocking you for doing something, etc. Negative feedback when you were a child programmed you to feel the way you do. Even if you had loving parents with no abuse, they still failed to train your in the importance of being socially confident. But I can't get angry at my parents, because personally I just think they were ignorant in raising children. It wasn't intentional.

It's very easy to say it's just a chemically based disorder that you were born with. But it's not -- people aren't born with an overload of fear of social situations... things like that are squarely based on environmental experience. If, for example, you were born into a family that constantly took you outdoors, put you on a church stage as a kid (let's say from birth all the way to 10), basically they lived to socialize, then you would have naturally picked that up because that's the only info you were receiving in the brain.

But what's done is done, and now it's up to us to fix it. It's not easy, and it requires massive energy, motivation, effort, and mental toughness to retrain the way your brain reacts to social stimulation. For me, I have read countless books and work books (which I actually did the work in!), watched numerous videos, meditating on good thoughts and imagining myself being rewarded for socializing, and actually trying to accept the fear and still try to say something, shake a hand, open a door for someone, saying something funny, etc. and rewarding myself for these things. You have to restructure your brain to react AUTOMATICALLY in a positive way. It goes beyond thoughts, and straight into the way your brain will automatically perceive social situations (or any other fear based thing) Basically you need to re-raise yourself in your own way, the way you feel is right.

Okay, I'm truly sorry for this ramble, but I really just felt like writing and letting my thoughts take me wherever. lol

 

[Ehsan]

this is really interesting to know the answer.
i believe many factors are involved in developing SP:
1- Genetics
2- Environment
3- Ourselves
sometimes i think genetics is the most important factor coz it predisposes one to be victim of SP when he/she confronts hard environmental situations. Others confront similar situations too but they handle/forget it while predisposed ones will get affected with its results. There are many evidences in my life which convince me about dominant role of genetics in developing SP. there are many papers that confirm genetics effect.
If your parents have some type of SP then you are exposed by genetics and environmental factors at the same time coz you have lived with them for many years especially in your childhood. many of Psychologists say that man's character forms in her/him childhood.

Two first factors are out of our hands but we have a great role ourselves.
i have had a big role in developing SP myself coz i have made many mistakes in my life which worsened my SP and caused many new problems while i could do something to resolve it instead.

Anyway,we all don' deal with SP in the same way. Some of us surrender to it while some other fight heavily and get rid of it. it's another time when we play an important role ourselves.

 

[SickJoke]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react. I think that social fear comes from lack of proper training in parenting; possibly neglect, severe over protection (mom always talks for me!) , abuse, laughing or mocking you for doing something, etc. Negative feedback when you were a child programmed you to feel the way you do. Even if you had loving parents with no abuse, they still failed to train your in the importance of being socially confident. But I can't get angry at my parents, because personally I just think they were ignorant in raising children. It wasn't intentional.

It's very easy to say it's just a chemically based disorder that you were born with. But it's not -- people aren't born with an overload of fear of social situations... things like that are squarely based on environmental experience. If, for example, you were born into a family that constantly took you outdoors, put you on a church stage as a kid (let's say from birth all the way to 10), basically they lived to socialize, then you would have naturally picked that up because that's the only info you were receiving in the brain.

But what's done is done, and now it's up to us to fix it. It's not easy, and it requires massive energy, motivation, effort, and mental toughness to retrain the way your brain reacts to social stimulation.

Yep. /thread

 

[Honda]

Psychology... Its based on the way we were raised... Now the past is over at least for me but still sometimes it gets the best of me nowadays... Were not raised or used to deal/face the daily difficulties of life... Thats why we get called and treated as cowards... but a man deals/faces with life no matter how difficult it is. Life is just like that..

 

[toto]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react. I think that social fear comes from lack of proper training in parenting; possibly neglect, severe over protection (mom always talks for me!) , abuse, laughing or mocking you for doing something, etc. Negative feedback when you were a child programmed you to feel the way you do. Even if you had loving parents with no abuse, they still failed to train your in the importance of being socially confident. But I can't get angry at my parents, because personally I just think they were ignorant in raising children. It wasn't intentional.

It's very easy to say it's just a chemically based disorder that you were born with. But it's not -- people aren't born with an overload of fear of social situations... things like that are squarely based on environmental experience. If, for example, you were born into a family that constantly took you outdoors, put you on a church stage as a kid (let's say from birth all the way to 10), basically they lived to socialize, then you would have naturally picked that up because that's the only info you were receiving in the brain.

But what's done is done, and now it's up to us to fix it. It's not easy, and it requires massive energy, motivation, effort, and mental toughness to retrain the way your brain reacts to social stimulation. For me, I have read countless books and work books (which I actually did the work in!), watched numerous videos, meditating on good thoughts and imagining myself being rewarded for socializing, and actually trying to accept the fear and still try to say something, shake a hand, open a door for someone, saying something funny, etc. and rewarding myself for these things. You have to restructure your brain to react AUTOMATICALLY in a positive way. It goes beyond thoughts, and straight into the way your brain will automatically perceive social situations (or any other fear based thing) Basically you need to re-raise yourself in your own way, the way you feel is right.

Okay, I'm truly sorry for this ramble, but I really just felt like writing and letting my thoughts take me wherever. lol

Wonderful thoughts!

 

[purplesocial]

Wonderful thoughts!

Yes, but what will you do with them?

I remember how I used to be addicted to forums/ message boards back when my SAD was debilitating.

I read a TON of words of wisdom, but NONE made a difference.

The key thing that people don't understand is that there comes a point where the issue is no longer about a lack of knowledge. It's about a lack of motivation to want to change yourself. At precisely that point is when the fault rests on YOURSELF.

But FORGET about looking for blame. You already have the knowledge that you need. Start focusing on how you can get yourself motivated to want to change.

I personally hate using worst case scenarios for motivation, so instead of saying things like "you will be cold and lonely forever" I thought of how cool it would be to add +5 skill points to my Charisma score (I play dungeons and dragons).

The point is that I used something positive to motivate to want to change. You have all the knowledge you need, stop reading more on forums like these.

P.S. I should clarify that when I say "you," I'm speaking in general terms and not singling out anyone in particular.

 

[kayelle]

powerfulthoughts, you're good!
That's pretty much what I was going to say...your experiences of social situations and of life when you're a child completely form all your opinions on life. Also the way your parents act and influence you. My parents didn't mean to, but the way they raised me was certainly the main reason I got all this, over and above everything else.
I also think it's somewhat genetic...like we are more susceptible to getting anxiety, like some people are more susceptible to high blood pressure or diabetes...both my granny and my dad has anxiety. Though the fact that they have it may just mean that they passed it on to me my surrounding me with that kind of environment, not necessarily in my genes. Whatever it is, I plan on breaking the cycle.
I find that knowing why I personally got anxiety has helped me a lot in dealing with those subconscious thoughts that come up in those situations, but I certainly don't place any 'blame' on anyone...I just think that I was susceptible from it, and situations in my life have caused this to be my crutch....and EVERYONE has a crutch, we're nothing special. Everyone has hardship in their life and this is mine, because that's how it turned out because of various things (upbringing and experience) led to my developing anxiety.

 

[toto]

Yes, but what will you do with them?

I remember how I used to be addicted to forums/ message boards back when my SAD was debilitating.

I read a TON of words of wisdom, but NONE made a difference.

The key thing that people don't understand is that there comes a point where the issue is no longer about a lack of knowledge. It's about a lack of motivation to want to change yourself. At precisely that point is when the fault rests on YOURSELF.

But FORGET about looking for blame. You already have the knowledge that you need. Start focusing on how you can get yourself motivated to want to change.

I personally hate using worst case scenarios for motivation, so instead of saying things like "you will be cold and lonely forever" I thought of how cool it would be to add +5 skill points to my Charisma score (I play dungeons and dragons).

The point is that I used something positive to motivate to want to change. You have all the knowledge you need, stop reading more on forums like these.

P.S. I should clarify that when I say "you," I'm speaking in general terms and not singling out anyone in particular.

Then why are you Still here?

 

[TheNewZero]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react.

I think this is the predominant cause. It was so weird being in a psych class and learning about brain development. Its like this light bulb went off in my head saying, wow, know I see why I am the way I am. Like I could see myself getting shut down as a kid or yelled at constantly for saying something stupid. It all made sense to me. But its weird how childhood experiences can evolve into so many different things, like some people could have become psycho killers if they had that kind of stuff done to them. I don't think that its just genes or experience that can be blamed for how we are. I think its so many things that just all come together, you know? Like personality, upbringing, friends, genes, even where we live. There's never going to be one answer, but I think all of the little things that give us the answer have to do with how we are. So I guess in a way we are a huge cause of it, but I don't think it's something we could have prevented.

 

[Rise Against]

I honestly dont think my case is my fault or my parents fault. I dont understand why i have SAD but i do, i think it has to do with my ADD and chemical balances in my brain because now that im taking lexapro for depression/SAD i have notice a huge change in confidence, self esteem and talkativeness.

 

[kayelle]

But its weird how childhood experiences can evolve into so many different things, like some people could have become psycho killers if they had that kind of stuff done to them.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say...I think my life experiences caused my anxiety, but I think I was susceptible to anxiety all along...like maybe I could have been susceptible to something else and those experiences would have developed into something else, some other mental problem.
I think we're predisposed to anxiety, and if our life experiences happen a certain way, then we develop it.

 

[mndigi]

This is one thing I'd really really love to know? Is it our fault? Where do we put the blame? Do you think our social problems are of our own making? Or do you think it's an entirely chemical/genetic condition that we would have got even if we'd made brilliant choices our whole lives?

Cause the way I see it is like this. Imagine our brains are computers, and your computer is running really really slow and all the other computers tease it for being retarded!....then one day a super-antivirus program swoops in and tests all the computers and it finds that your computer has a massive virus. So the antivirus program totally clears your system of the virus, and then suddenly it turns out that your computer can actually run 10 times faster than all the others!!! Wouldn't that be bloody beautiful!!!?!!

But then again, it also seems nowadays that the slightest flaw in your personality and you can blame it on some kind of disorder. i.e. if you're lazy, you can blame it on ADD. If you're an alcoholic you can blame it on your addictive personality disorder. If you're obese you can blame it on your low metabolism.

But at what point should we stop blaming our lives on our "neurons" and start taking responsibility for ourselves?

Personally, I'm [annoyingly] still undecided. I have a very black and white brain, and I'd love for someone to tell me that it's entirely NOT my fault! But I suspect, like most things in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

We ARE computers, natural computers. The word disorder means nothing but something deviant from regular functioning. Therefore even if we are lazy to the point of becoming non-functional, we have disorder in our lives.

But unlike present day computers, we have capabilities to heal ourselves (guess what future computers might do). So we can "take responsibilities for our own actions" as you say, and/or we can seek external help. And our problems might be because of the way we were born, or they developed because of the environment and circumstances.

But at the end, we are like nature's machines, which have faults. These can be minimized/managed, completely removed or allowed to flourish.

 

[purplesocial]

Then why are you Still here?

huh? I only joined this forum yesterday.

Perhaps you misinterpreted the intent of my previous post ??

I wasn't trying to put anyone down, just trying to show the kind of attitude it takes to get over SAD. You essentially have to want to help yourself. As obvious as that sounds, you would be surprised at how much this plays a role in keeping people from overcoming the anxiety.

 

[lettypagb]

meds detected

 

[TheFreak]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react. I think that social fear comes from lack of proper training in parenting; possibly neglect, severe over protection (mom always talks for me!) , abuse, laughing or mocking you for doing something, etc. Negative feedback when you were a child programmed you to feel the way you do. Even if you had loving parents with no abuse, they still failed to train your in the importance of being socially confident. But I can't get angry at my parents, because personally I just think they were ignorant in raising children. It wasn't intentional.

It's very easy to say it's just a chemically based disorder that you were born with. But it's not -- people aren't born with an overload of fear of social situations... things like that are squarely based on environmental experience. If, for example, you were born into a family that constantly took you outdoors, put you on a church stage as a kid (let's say from birth all the way to 10), basically they lived to socialize, then you would have naturally picked that up because that's the only info you were receiving in the brain.

But what's done is done, and now it's up to us to fix it. It's not easy, and it requires massive energy, motivation, effort, and mental toughness to retrain the way your brain reacts to social stimulation. For me, I have read countless books and work books (which I actually did the work in!), watched numerous videos, meditating on good thoughts and imagining myself being rewarded for socializing, and actually trying to accept the fear and still try to say something, shake a hand, open a door for someone, saying something funny, etc. and rewarding myself for these things. You have to restructure your brain to react AUTOMATICALLY in a positive way. It goes beyond thoughts, and straight into the way your brain will automatically perceive social situations (or any other fear based thing) Basically you need to re-raise yourself in your own way, the way you feel is right.

Okay, I'm truly sorry for this ramble, but I really just felt like writing and letting my thoughts take me wherever. lol

That post was inspiring, kudos to you!

 

[SilentType]

Powerfulthoughts indeed.


Peace

 

[Ehsan]

My opinion is that a lot of the blame goes to the way you were raised, and the feedback you got from your social experiences. From age 0 to 15 our brains are constantly receiving feedback on how we should act based on how other people react. I think that social fear comes from lack of proper training in parenting; possibly neglect, severe over protection (mom always talks for me!) , abuse, laughing or mocking you for doing something, etc. Negative feedback when you were a child programmed you to feel the way you do. Even if you had loving parents with no abuse, they still failed to train your in the importance of being socially confident. But I can't get angry at my parents, because personally I just think they were ignorant in raising children. It wasn't intentional.

It's very easy to say it's just a chemically based disorder that you were born with. But it's not -- people aren't born with an overload of fear of social situations... things like that are squarely based on environmental experience. If, for example, you were born into a family that constantly took you outdoors, put you on a church stage as a kid (let's say from birth all the way to 10), basically they lived to socialize, then you would have naturally picked that up because that's the only info you were receiving in the brain.

But what's done is done, and now it's up to us to fix it. It's not easy, and it requires massive energy, motivation, effort, and mental toughness to retrain the way your brain reacts to social stimulation. For me, I have read countless books and work books (which I actually did the work in!), watched numerous videos, meditating on good thoughts and imagining myself being rewarded for socializing, and actually trying to accept the fear and still try to say something, shake a hand, open a door for someone, saying something funny, etc. and rewarding myself for these things. You have to restructure your brain to react AUTOMATICALLY in a positive way. It goes beyond thoughts, and straight into the way your brain will automatically perceive social situations (or any other fear based thing) Basically you need to re-raise yourself in your own way, the way you feel is right.

Okay, I'm truly sorry for this ramble, but I really just felt like writing and letting my thoughts take me wherever. lol

excuse me, but i believe something is lost within your theory and that is the great effect of biological matters. my brother is one year older than me. me and my brother lived together everywhere(home, classroom, ...) for 16 years and we were equal in everything but we are 180 degrees different now.
he goes out 7:00AM everyday and comes back 11:00PM while i'm in the home all of day long.

 

[SickJoke]

excuse me, but i believe something is lost within your theory and that is the great effect of biological matters. my brother is one year older than me. me and my brother lived together everywhere(home, classroom, ...) for 16 years and we were equal in everything but we are 180 degrees different now.
he goes out 7:00AM everyday and comes back 11:00PM while i'm in the home all of day long.

When you say "equal in everything" that implies that all of your experiences were exactly the same. Maybe you were in the same home and classroom, but did people respond to you identically? No, that would be impossible. Feedback from other people is the issue here.

 

[Ehsan]

When you say "equal in everything" that implies that all of your experiences were exactly the same. Maybe you were in the same home and classroom, but did people respond to you identically? No, that would be impossible. Feedback from other people is the issue here.

feedback of my family was always equal for us. even strictly speaking it was better for me bcz education was very important for them and i was successful in it while my brother wasn't.
although, i can't remember my infancy but i can't ignore the role of genetics. my biology and habits are very similar to my father and he is also a mild SP sufferer himself.

These are two paragraphs which i've selected from two of the best papers about biology of SP. they say genetics and environmental factors both affect SP. may be environmental factors plays a greater role:

1)Genetic factors vs. environmental factors
Genetically speaking, some animal models have shown social temperament to be breed-dependent. Kalin and Shelton (28) commented on the common ground shared by the novelty-aversive behavior of children with BI and the defensive behaviors of infant rhesus monkeys. (Interestingly, in infant rhesus monkeys the fear-related freezing and defensive barking have been shown to share common features, and were relieved by diazepam.) Despite genetic influence, animal models of behavior show that temperamental predisposition, and potentially SAD, is indeed affected by the rearing environment. In laboratories, postnatal handling of rat pups by humans increased maternal licking and grooming and arched-back nursing, while maternal separation reduced this behavior (29) to a level equivalent to that of non-handled pups (30). Furthermore, the offspring of non-handled pups showed greater fearfulness in unfamiliar surroundings (31). Pups experiencing maternal separation and their non-handled cohorts were also less likely than handled pups to feed in a novel environment. Moreover, handled pups spent significantly more time exploring novel environments and showed reduced startle response when compared with the other cohorts (31). (The neurobiologic mechanisms are discussed below.) To reinforce the discussion of environment vs. genetics, the concept of cross-fostering has been explored. BALBc mice are typically very fearful and wary of novel environments. However, once cross-fostered to C57 mothers, known for a twofold greater frequency of licking and grooming, the BALBc pups become significantly less fearful (31– 33). Another study showing the effect of early life stress was conducted in non-human primates. Infant bonnet macaques were subjected to differences in maternal stress induced by food availability. Infants raised by mothers exposed to variable foraging demands showed significantly more fearfulness and aversion to social interaction in adulthood than those infants raised with a reliable food supply (34, 35).

2)Genetics of Social Anxiety Disorder
Although there is increasing evidence that social anxiety disorder and its childhood variants, including behavioral inhibition and shyness, have a strong familial basis, the genetics of the disorder have not been adequately studied.
Several early studies (58, 59) established a familial link, but only for the generalized subtype (59). It was reported that if a proband has a diagnosis of social anxiety disorder, the percentage of first-degree relatives with the illness was 15%, which was greater than the 10% finding in subjects with agoraphobia and less than the 31% seen in subjects with simple phobia (49). Subsequently, a larger study (60) showed that the generalized subtype was markedly increased in frequency (approximately 10 times greater) among first-degree relatives of generalized social phobic probands. Another study (61) demonstrated that the children of patients with social anxiety disorder were at an increased risk of developing this disorder and other anxiety disorders.
The low genetic concordance rates for social anxiety disorder in monozygotic twins (62) have suggested that genetics plays a limited role in its development. As we suggested for panic disorder (1), what appears to be inherited is a susceptibility to social anxiety, not the disorder itself. Although no systematic genetic linkage studies employing a genomic scan or search among candidate genes have been conducted for social anxiety disorder so far, such studies are underway for panic disorder (63) and OCD (64). Likewise, molecular genetic studies of candidate genes for the several neurotransmitter systems implicated in social anxiety, notably the serotonin transporter and dopamine receptor and their various subtypes, have allowed
for associations between specific genes and behavioral traits, such as harm avoidance and novelty seeking (65, 66)—characteristics relevant to the social anxiety disorder phenotype. Thus, genetic and family studies in social
anxiety disorder are still in their infancy but support longitudinal clinical data that are suggestive of links between childhood and adult variants of the disorder.