Is it just me?

[Etbow23]

The assumption you have made here is that guys who have this complex want to misstreat (abuse) women who look more experienced in sex.(not necessarily prostitutes either!!) I .have never treated any woman badly.
This is not the case. They simply feel more relaxed (less guilty) and more stimulated by provocative dress the woman is wearing. It's more a psychological thing where I compartmentalise two types of woman......one who enjoys sex( in all its various forms! including oral sex) and a virginal type who has no experience. In fact this complex is very old-fashioned now because women in regular relationships are not averse to oral sex. Men could never expect such a thing from their wife in a marriage several years ago (especially a strict Christian one)

I was mostly referring to what I know about the Madonna-whore complex, where either a woman is a saint to be protected/cherished or a whore to be looked down on/disrespected. I know there are many variables here. I'm sorry if i offended you, I didn't mean it that way.

Where did oral sex come into the equation? Not all women who like regular sex enjoy oral sex, you're making generalizations. I'm just not sure how that's related to the conversation.

 

[planemo]

I wish I could say that I have a partner ::

me too, i've never had a partner. i just don't see what's so bad if i don't wanna fantasize about someone i have feelings for. i know given my inability to communicate with the opposite sex, i'm miles away from being at that level of actually performing the act, such that i rather not think of it because it's so unrealistic.

 

[antihistamine]

I was mostly referring to what I know about the Madonna-whore complex, where either a woman is a saint to be protected/cherished or a whore to be looked down on/disrespected. I know there are many variables here. I'm sorry if i offended you, I didn't mean it that way.

Where did oral sex come into the equation? Not all women who like regular sex enjoy oral sex, you're making generalizations. I'm just not sure how that's related to the conversation.

Did I say that? Don't think so. From my experience you are absolutely right!!

You didn't offend me...it's cool.

Before I become someone labelled that "guy who is preoccupied with oral sex", let me explain further. A classic old fashioned marriage from my parents' generation, never involved experimental sex. Oral sex was thought of as "something wives didn't do" (nor did men on their partners)and women's enjoyment was never a factor either'. Usually only one position..the missionary position. Sex was for procreation only. Enjoyment was a bonus.
Have I dug my grave even deeper now??

 

[antihistamine]

I was specifically referring to oral sex in my post above. There are no two types of women. Just as there are no two types of men either. The world is not black and white. See the shades of gray. You will be happier once you do.

Sarcastic tone perhaps??

 

[antihistamine]

The assumption you have made here is that guys who have this complex want to misstreat (abuse) women who look more experienced in sex.(not necessarily prostitutes either!!) I .have never treated any woman badly.
This is not the case. They simply feel more relaxed (less guilty) and more stimulated by provocative dress the woman is wearing. It's more a psychological thing where I compartmentalise two types of woman......one who enjoys sex( in all its various forms! including oral sex) and a virginal type who has no experience. In fact this complex is very old-fashioned now because women in regular relationships are not averse to oral sex. Men could never expect such a thing from their wife in a marriage several years ago (especially a strict Christian one)

I think it is fair to make a generalisation that couples are getting more experimental with sex these days compared to generations gone by. That's what I was getting at anyway. Taboos and stereotypes are changing.

The madonna/whore complex is a dangerous label to put on anyone...now THAT is black and white thinking!!

 

[Etbow23]

Did I say that? Don't think so. From my experience you are absolutely right!!

You didn't offend me...it's cool.

Before I become someone labelled that "guy who is preoccupied with oral sex", let me explain further. A classic old fashioned marriage from my parents' generation, never involved experimental sex. Oral sex was thought of as "something wives didn't do" (nor did men on their partners)and women's enjoyment was never a factor either'. Usually only one position..the missionary position. Sex was for procreation only. Enjoyment was a bonus.
Have I dug my grave even deeper now??

Okay, so I guess we can all just calm down a bit. This is a touchy issue I guess. You're right that sex and its purpose has changed significantly in the past century. I suppose all of us have gotten riled up, so now we can just look at the original thought--the thought that you respect someone, and therefore you don't want to touch them.

I think we can all agree that it isn't healthy to feel this way; that you should be able to show respect through your sexual relationship with a partner. It's possible that feeling this way can definitely come between you as a couple, and may lead to infidelity, and other issues.

 

[antihistamine]

Yes, this affects women of course. A woman is afraid to express herself sexually for fear of being branded a slut which is like the worst thing a woman can be called. A woman who wants to be seen as a "good girl" may repress her sexual desires and have trouble seeing herself as a sexual being. When she does express herself sexually, she will suffer with guilt after. She will feel dirty. It is all very confusing to her. As you can see, this can be a big problem for us.

I have played both roles. I have been the "virgin". And I have been the "whore". Neither quite fits because I am human, I am real. I am not a statue. I have feelings and urges and it doesn't make me good or bad. A man who loves me who doesn't want to have sex with me or hesitates to engage in certain sex acts is saying that if I want to do those things it must mean I am a dirty bad whore and he doesn't want a dirty bad whore as a girlfriend. There is a battle going on in his head: he doesn't know in which category to place me in, and I can only be one or the other, so which is it? I will always lose that battle. My biggest worry with that is that this man would seek to have sex with someone else, like an actual prostitute, and cheat on me when I am very willing and wanting to engage in those sex acts. See why this is a problem and why it is frustrating? Sex is a big component in a relationship and very important to me, as it is to many women, and yes, I am a woman and not a man. So, would you call me a slut?



You have to dig deep and find out why you feel this way. You will have to challenge your beliefs. You will have to blend the virgin and whore images you have in your head, and see this girl as a sexual being as you yourself are. It will not be easy, but it is possible. Maybe a therapist can help you with this.

Now I'm confused...not my idea of a wet dream!!

 

[coyote]

Before I become someone labelled that "guy who is preoccupied with oral sex", let me explain further. A classic old fashioned marriage from my parents' generation, never involved experimental sex. Oral sex was thought of as "something wives didn't do" (nor did men on their partners)and women's enjoyment was never a factor either'. Usually only one position..the missionary position. Sex was for procreation only. Enjoyment was a bonus.
Have I dug my grave even deeper now??

i don't think this is true at all

the only difference is that it wasn't talked about as openly

people have been getting their kink on in the privacy of their own bedchambers for many hundreds of years

 

[antihistamine]

Okay, so I guess we can all just calm down a bit. This is a touchy issue I guess. You're right that sex and its purpose has changed significantly in the past century. I suppose all of us have gotten riled up, so now we can just look at the original thought--the thought that you respect someone, and therefore you don't want to touch them.

I think we can all agree that it isn't healthy to feel this way; that you should be able to show respect through your sexual relationship with a partner. It's possible that feeling this way can definitely come between you as a couple, and may lead to infidelity, and other issues.

Can I just say that this frank discussion with women about sex is really helpful for me??
In case I say anything else stupid, I want to express my gratitude to you for being willing to discuss it.

 

[antihistamine]

i don't think this is true at all

the only difference is that it wasn't talked about as openly

people have been getting their kink on in the privacy of their own bedchambers for many hundreds of years

well your parents were different to mine then

 

[MikeyC]

Yes, this affects women of course. A woman is afraid to express herself sexually for fear of being branded a slut which is like the worst thing a woman can be called. A woman who wants to be seen as a "good girl" may repress her sexual desires and have trouble seeing herself as a sexual being. When she does express herself sexually, she will suffer with guilt after. She will feel dirty. It is all very confusing to her. As you can see, this can be a big problem for us.

I have played both roles. I have been the "virgin". And I have been the "whore". Neither quite fits because I am human, I am real. I am not a statue. I have feelings and urges and it doesn't make me good or bad. A man who loves me who doesn't want to have sex with me or hesitates to engage in certain sex acts is saying that if I want to do those things it must mean I am a dirty bad whore and he doesn't want a dirty bad whore as a girlfriend. There is a battle going on in his head: he doesn't know in which category to place me in, and I can only be one or the other, so which is it? I will always lose that battle. My biggest worry with that is that this man would seek to have sex with someone else, like an actual prostitute, and cheat on me when I am very willing and wanting to engage in those sex acts. See why this is a problem and why it is frustrating? Sex is a big component in a relationship and very important to me, as it is to many women, and yes, I am a woman and not a man. So, would you call me a slut?

I said it before in a similar thread not long ago, but this post reinforces the absolutely ridiculous double-standard humans have created. Women are never treated fairly in these situations.

 

[antihistamine]

Irish catholic heritage especially (a big part of migration to australia in early years)

 

[BlueDays]

i don't think this is true at all

the only difference is that it wasn't talked about as openly

people have been getting their kink on in the privacy of their own bedchambers for many hundreds of years

^ I have to agree with this. After listening to my mum and her sisters talk about there sex lives I can safely say their husbands would have been quite happy in their bedrooms. (They were all post-war babies too)

It is quite sad to read about the men who can only put women into 2 classes; the virgin/wholesome or the whore/horny types.
For they are missing out on all the enjoyment and satisfaction to be had with many, many women that fall "in between" those 2 extremes.

 

[razzle dazzle rose]

The madonna/whore complex is a dangerous label to put on anyone...now THAT is black and white thinking!!

I didn't make this up honestly. You can search online and find information about it. I learned about this in my psychology classes in college.

I said it before in a similar thread not long ago, but this post reinforces the absolutely ridiculous double-standard humans have created. Women are never treated fairly in these situations.

Thinking about this...I don't think I have ever had a healthy sexual relationship with any man I have ever been with: they have either seen me as a whore or saint. I try my best to just be me and not fall into either one category, but that doesn't seem to make any difference. I wonder what it is I am supposed to do.

 

[Aletheia]

Oral sex was thought of as "something wives didn't do"

Random aside: in the 19th Century, prostitutes charged significantly more for oral sex than for vaginal sex, because it was seen as something kinky that men would never get from their wives.

These days, oral sex goes for less because it has become normalized (and possibly because it carries less risk of disease / no risk of pregnancy / is less intimate).

I've also read that purity ring wearers are more likely to engage in anal sex than their non-pledge peers, in order to save their technical "virginity" for their future husbands. This sort of blows my mind, because for my generation, anal sex is way more outre than vaginal (not to mention dangerous). Times they are a changing.

 

[MikeyC]

For they are missing out on all the enjoyment and satisfaction to be had with many, many women that fall "in between" those 2 extremes.

That's right.

Thinking about this...I don't think I have ever had a healthy sexual relationship with any man I have ever been with: they have either seen me as a whore or saint. I try my best to just be me and not fall into either one category, but that doesn't seem to make any difference. I wonder what it is I am supposed to do.

You aren't supposed to do anything except be yourself, which you have.

I think that says more about the men than it does about you. If you can't act the way you naturally would because he will see you in an "unsavoury" light, well, that's his issue.

 

[antihistamine]

Looks like the veteran posters have weighed in to support in each other...and gang up on the villainous antihistamine!!

anti h........get thee to a nunnery!! how do you have anything remotely resembling a mad whore complex!! You evil thing!!

Looks like this site is more politically correct than I thought!!

 

[MikeyC]

Looks like the veteran posters have weighed in to support in each other...and gang up on the villainous antihistamine!!

anti h........get thee to a nunnery!! how do you have anything remotely resembling a mad whore complex!! You evil thing!!

Looks like this site is more politically correct than I thought!!

I'm not ganging up on you, but these discussions can get quite personal. Treading lightly is the key. I even debated whether to post here in the first place.

 

[antihistamine]

^ I have to agree with this. After listening to my mum and her sisters talk about there sex lives I can safely say their husbands would have been quite happy in their bedrooms. (They were all post-war babies too)

It is quite sad to read about the men who can only put women into 2 classes; the virgin/wholesome or the whore/horny types.
For they are missing out on all the enjoyment and satisfaction to be had with many, many women that fall "in between" those 2 extremes.

Sounds good to me!

 

[Aletheia]

This thread makes me realize that I have been lucky lucky lucky lucky in my sex life, and I'm now off to ponder why that is.

(I happen to know that my Gran had a healthy sex life before her husband died; maybe it's genetic.)