Is Eating Animals Wrong???

[playlounge]

Each to their own when it comes to eating. But don't force others to do what you do.
A bit like religion really, you wouldn't like to be forced to be Muslim or Buddhist would you?

I think you forget something here, there is a big difference.
Choosing your religion is something which only involves you. By making a choice between atheist, christian or such you don't bother anything else.
By choosing to eat meat you do bother something else, namely animals.
In the question meat/vegetarian there is a third party (the animals), there isn't in the question of religions.
But no, you can't force anyone to become veggie, but consider the fact that by eating meat you're forcing animals to die.
BTW, English isn't my native language so sorry for possible mistakes.

 

[Mutismist]

Ok. Firstly, You're saying that you know 'most people don't like being confronted with these sorts of questions'... I would be very surprised if you knew what 'most people' were thinking. No one can mind read.
Maybe their 'reactions' weren't defensive, aggressive or just plain silly, but that's how you took it. Have you ever been wrong?

You saying social phobia sufferers who don't have the same view as you aren't 'deeper thinkers'.. well that's just insulting and quite frankly quite narrow minded.
I would say most butchers and abattoir workers lead very peaceful lives and love their children and partners. They would be offended at your statement.

Just because you choose to eat vegies over meat it doesn't make you any more or less of a human being. To suggest it somehow makes you superior in ANY way is laughable.[/QUOTE]


My intention wasn't to insult anybody but to make you think more carefully and more deeply about what is involved when you're tucking into a your grease burger and I must say the replies are still quite defensive so far. I say most people as in the people who have replied in this forum. I don't need to be psychic for that, their answers are in front of me.

I stand by what I said about slaughter house workers and butchers, sorry about that, slaughter house man who wrote the previous post. You are one group of people I don't mind offending. They have the same choice as everybody else in the job/career they choose in life. What on earth makes them choose to kill thousands of defenceless animals day after day, year after year, up to their elbows in blood? Kicking sheep in the face for fun is one of the latest slaughter house news stories. If you want to defend all this, be my guest.

My point with other social phobia sufferers is that we have all suffered in our own way and probably more so than most people. I don't know about you, but this has given me some insight into the suffering of others, the thought of which I find very upsetting. It's called compassion for other people and animals and I don't apologise to you or anyone else for being that way. The downfall of the human race is the lack of compassion for others.

So take a chill pill and don't look for ways to be offended, (except the slaughter house people) take a step back and look at where we are all going wrong. This involves stepping out of yourself and imagining being in the position of others less fortunate than you. No one is coming for you with a bolt gun or a machete, but imagine how you would feel if they were. Of course if the compassion is missing, you won't have a clue what I'm going on about and I'll be just wasting my time.
You're right, being veggie doesn't make anyone superior, but it does show a bit of thought for others and, oh here's that word again, compassion.

 

[SCP-087-1]

That is just one individual that kicked the sheep for fun. I once saw a vegetarian attack a guy. Again, that's one individual and I wont hold it against all vegetarians.

Yeah you're right I could just get another job. Why don't I strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on little jobbies?! Or I could take the only job that was available and pays well in order to pay rent and buy food.

You don't mind insulting a group of people? Nice compassion you've got there.

Every time I've talked to a vegetarian it seems they have such a simple world view. Everything is black and white. There is no grey. Pest control isn't allowed because it kills wee bunnies. Even though those bunnies destroy the crops that vegetarians live on. No hunting an invasive species even though it could cause the local ecosystem to collapse. No taking the only job available so you can support your self/family. Vegetarians just can't make tough decisions.

Compassion and being able to kill an animal is not mutually exclusive.

 

[Mutismist]

That is just one individual that kicked the sheep for fun. I once saw a vegetarian attack a guy. Again, that's one individual and I wont hold it against all vegetarians.

Yeah you're right I could just get another job. Why don't I strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on little jobbies?! Or I could take the only job that was available and pays well in order to pay rent and buy food.

You don't mind insulting a group of people? Nice compassion you've got there.

Every time I've talked to a vegetarian it seems they have such a simple world view. Everything is black and white. There is no grey. Pest control isn't allowed because it kills wee bunnies. Even though those bunnies destroy the crops that vegetarians live on. No hunting an invasive species even though it could cause the local ecosystem to collapse. No taking the only job available so you can support your self/family. Vegetarians just can't make tough decisions.

Compassion and being able to kill an animal is not mutually exclusive.

The bottom line, slaughter house man is that you kill for a living. I assume you enjoy your job and you go home feeling fulfilled otherwise you wouldn't do it. There must be other jobs out there for you, but why should you take them if you already enjoy the job you do?

Please don't trot out the usual hunter's defence of killing pests and vermin, be honest like you were in a previous post when you said that hunting is "fun".

I'm happy to offend you and others in your work because what you do offends me beyond words. My few words on a forum pale in comparison to what you do for a living and for fun.

Nice try at defending the sheep kickers. 'Only one person did it'... oh and a few of his giggling friends holding the camera, so that probably makes it ok. You've probably witnessed some real horror stories in your time but I bet you would never divulge on here. I don't condone physically attacking people either and he shouldn't have done it but I suspect the vegetarian didn't kill the slaughter house man afterwards.

I'm afraid we are poles apart on this one.

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

I'm happy to offend you

This is a support site.

These are the rules.

Notice #1. Keep it civil or don't post.

 

[Mutismist]

Duly noted.

 

[SCP-087-1]

Please don't trot out the usual hunter's defence of killing pests and vermin, be honest like you were in a previous post when you said that hunting is "fun".

Dude, I wasn't listing reasons why I hunt. I was saying that vegetarians oppose all killing of animals it even though it's important for agricultural, health (many vermin carry disease), and conservation purposes. It could have dire consequences if not carried out. It kinda seems like you just scan my posts for key words then read from a prepared script

Nice try at defending the sheep kickers. 'Only one person did it'... oh and a few of his giggling friends holding the camera, so that probably makes it ok. You've probably witnessed some real horror stories in your time but I bet you would never divulge on here. I don't condone physically attacking people either and he shouldn't have done it but I suspect the vegetarian didn't kill the slaughter house man afterwards.

I wasn't defending. I never said it's okay. I don't approve of it. All I was trying to say was you are judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few bad apples in the bunch. All I have to go on is what I've seen. And what I've seen is that there are strict rules and harsh consequences for shit like that. So either it's from some backwards country with no regulations or it's one rogue slaughterhouse with a few sick individuals working there. Nice cherry picking

 

[planetweirdo]

Personally I don't think that it's really any more morally wrong for humans to eat meat, then it is for other creatures in the animal kingdom to eat meat. I reason that if a person calls a human a murderer for eating meat, that should also mean that lions, wolfs, bears and the countless other carnivorous animals of our world must also be murderers. How can one say that they love all animals including the carnivorous ones, but condemn a human for being a carnivore? Wouldn't there have to be a double-standard in place to allow one to think that its okay for animals to consume flesh but not humans?

I'm a meat-eater, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about animals. It just means that I believe that there is a natural food chain and we humans are a part of it.

I do believe that it is wrong to kill animals inhumanly and mistreat animals though. Animals should not be made to suffer.

 

[PugofCrydee]

I think you forget something here, there is a big difference.
Choosing your religion is something which only involves you. By making a choice between atheist, christian or such you don't bother anything else.
By choosing to eat meat you do bother something else, namely animals.

No sorry mate, you missed my point. I was saying you should just do what you want to do and let others do what they want to do.

Vegans wanting everyone else to become vegans, religious people wanting everyone else to believe what they want to believe in..
People around the world would get on so much better if we just accepted we are all different and that its OK to be different.

 

[PugofCrydee]

I assume you enjoy your job and you go home feeling fulfilled otherwise you wouldn't do it. There must be other jobs out there for you, but why should you take them if you already enjoy the job you do?QUOTE]

For you to even say this suggests that you yourself do NOT show the qualities you preach about, compassion and understanding.

Do you realize all over the world people have to do jobs they don't enjoy just to make a living?
'I assume you enjoy your job and you go home feeling fulfilled otherwise you wouldn't do it'.. Wow.. That statement shows a lack of insight, compassion and understanding.
I wonder if you would be so judgemental if you were to go to say.. Vietnam and scold the people in the poorest areas where they trap eels from the rivers, kill monkeys, and all kinds of other animals just to live? They eat dog which I don't like as I'm a dog lover, but I understand and respect that is their way, their custom and it is not my place to judge them. If you grew up in Vietnam you would be doing the same as them.


All I'm saying is you speak of compassion and understanding. Yet to do this you must understand what it is like to live that other persons life face the choices they have to make and walk a mile in their shoes.
Once you have done that you may say, they have their own ways but it is not for me.
Otherwise to speak of understanding and compassion is hypocritical.

 

[playlounge]

No sorry mate, you missed my point. I was saying you should just do what you want to do and let others do what they want to do.

Vegans wanting everyone else to become vegans, religious people wanting everyone else to believe what they want to believe in..
People around the world would get on so much better if we just accepted we are all different and that its OK to be different.

Concerning religion we couldn't agree more. It's a question of how you shape yourself as a human being and nobody else should interfere with that. What you believe in should be entirely up to you.
But with meat eater/veg it's more complicated then that. This is not just about self-development. The question here is if it's OK that animals are tortured and die for your luxury. If you state that the religion-dilemma and the meat-dilemma are the same thing, you completely neglect the welfare of animals, you completely deny that animals have any rights. And that disturbs me.
As I said I will never forbid anyone to eat meat, but I won't stop trying to convince people animals do have rights.

I'm pretty sure I get your point though, I just don't agree with it and I hope I've been able to explain why.
But we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[mismeek]

I just want to add that my grandfather worked in a slaughter house and meat packing plant. He is one of the nicest people I know. He told me that he didn't like killing the animals but he did it because it put money in his pocket and food on the table. He didn't wake up excited to kills cows and goats all day, but it had to be done.

another thing- not all people view animals as their equals. My grandfathers view was that animals were put on this earth to sustain us so..yes we do have to kill them in order to eat them. He's not going to be cruel and torture them to death..but yes end the end, they will have to die.

 

[PugofCrydee]

But with meat eater/veg it's more complicated then that. This is not just about self-development. The question here is if it's OK that animals are tortured and die for your luxury. .

Yea that I think sums it up fairly well, agree to disagree. But, although I do say that animals are to be eaten I certainly do not say that its ok to torture them or treat them inhumanely.

As far as the comparison between religion and animals as a food source goes, I was trying to make a more general point. As in, people should stop trying to force their views and ways of life onto everyone else. Meat eaters don't go around trying to pressure vegans into eating meat. So I believe vegans should live their lives and let others be.

No one group has any higher moral ground on this matter.

 

[GhastlyCC]

Yea that I think sums it up fairly well, agree to disagree. But, although I do say that animals are to be eaten I certainly do not say that its ok to torture them or treat them inhumanely.

As far as the comparison between religion and animals as a food source goes, I was trying to make a more general point. As in, people should stop trying to force their views and ways of life onto everyone else. Meat eaters don't go around trying to pressure vegans into eating meat. So I believe vegans should live their lives and let others be.

No one group has any higher moral ground on this matter.

This is so ****ing untrue.
lol

I was vegan for about nine years and I was constantly ridiculed about it.
On more than one occasion I've actually had people try and sneak animal product into my food....literately trying to FORCE me to eat meat.
It's not even like I went around telling everybody,
people would just find out somehow and feel the need to confront me about it like it was something offensive to them.

People have created this preachy vegan/vegetarian stereotype in they minds and it makes them become automatically defensive when the subject is brought up.
I've heard "What, so you think you're better than me?" more times than I'd even like to try and remember.

My masculinity,sexuality, and intelligence have all been questioned because of my ****ing dietary preferences

 

[planetweirdo]

There seem to be a bit of generalization in this thread.

Yes, there are people that ridicule vegetarians. But not all non-vegetarians act that way.

It is also true that there are some vegetarians that act pretty self-righteous. but not all vegetarians act that way.

As for the claim that all butchers are evil monsters that just love torturing animals and kicking sheep in the face.... that's demonization.

I believe that we are all just human, and none of us are perfect. We like to think of ourselves as "good people" but this thread is an example of how different people have different ideas about what makes a person "good". I guess that despite the fact that most people in the world would not think a person bad for eating meat, I suppose that there are some people out there that think that eating meat is horrible act of cruelty. To those individuals I must be one of the most horrible people to ever walk the earth. No matter how good I try to be I guess that to them I will be a bad guy for as long as I eat meat.
I don't wish to be seen as a bad guy by them. But it is very unlikely that I will ever give up eating meat, because It is not within my own moral code that eating meat is bad. Even if I stopped eating meat so that I can be seen as good through the eyes of those opposed to eating meat. I will still run a foul of some other group of people that think that I'm a bad guy for another reason.

It's impossible to be seen as a "good person" by everyone.

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

This is so ****ing untrue.

The minority will always, on the whole, take crap from the majority. Whether you're the one black/Mexican/white guy in a town of white/black/Mexicans, or the one Christian/atheist in a group of atheists/Christians, or anything else. It's an unfortunate fact of human nature.

The crap might be subtle. It might be disguised as humor. It might even be disguised as kindness or charity.

It's still crap.

 

[warcraft]

500 years ago, if you were vegetarian, people would have laughed at you.

So what happened since? Why the sudden increase of vegetarians?

It's Hollywood brainwashing. We now have people thinking "plants have life" and the planet is overpopulated. It is part of "culture creation/social movements" by the powers that be that run this planet.

Humans are not animals. Humans are not plants.

Eating animals is perfectly fine, people have done it for 6000 years.

 

[GhastlyCC]

holy shit.....

 

[kihira]

Eating animals is perfectly fine, people have done it for 6000 years.

...and before then?? :question:

 

[PugofCrydee]

This is so ****ing untrue.
lol

I was vegan for about nine years and I was constantly ridiculed about it.
On more than one occasion I've actually had people try and sneak animal product into my food....literately trying to FORCE me to eat meat.
It's not even like I went around telling everybody,
people would just find out somehow and feel the need to confront me about it like it was something offensive to them.

People have created this preachy vegan/vegetarian stereotype in they minds and it makes them become automatically defensive when the subject is brought up.
I've heard "What, so you think you're better than me?" more times than I'd even like to try and remember.

My masculinity,sexuality, and intelligence have all been questioned because of my ****ing dietary preferences

Well Ghastly I admit I was generalising when I referred to meat eaters not trying to coerce vegans into eating meat. Of course you're going to get those people who act like j e r k s and do stuff like you mentioned.
Why?
Because people ARE J e r k s. (there I go generalising again..)
Maybe where you live people are more opinionated about what others do. But where I live if you want to be a vegan, not too many people will give a toss.
It's generally accepted. So while it might be 'so **cking untrue' where you live, it's quite the opposite where I live.