Help with rationalizing please.

[UnOccupied]

I was wondering if you guys could help me out a little with my rational statements(for CBT). As i am doing CBT, i am realizing more and more irrational thoughts and beliefs i have about myself and the situatioins i am in. But, some situations, i just cannot rationalize myself, and i would really appreciate it if you guys could help me out a little, by sharing some ways you would rationalize these thoughts and beliefs of mine. All ideas are welcome:

For example, my therapist recently told me this one. I complained to him that i feel like when i am in a good mood, people hate me, and i am not supposed to feel like this, because everyone thinks i am just a big jerk and douche bag. He simply told me, "where is the evidence that anyone is thinking that about you?"

So, just something simple like that rational statement goes a long way in helping me rationalize my irrational

beliefs about myself. Okay, so here are some of my irrational beliefs/ thoughts that i am looking for help with:


1. (me thinking to myself)"That pause in the phone conversation was MY fault, this person is going to hang up now, and think i am a complete awkward loser who is too selfish to talk on the phone. Any pause in conversation will make this person completely hate you and never talk to you again."(This is basically the same thought process i have when talking with someone in any situation, just worse on the phone)


2. (me thinking to myself)"I am not allowed to look this person in the eye. Since i feel a little uncomfortable doing it, this person MUST realize my discomfort, and hate me for it. They will tell me i am weird, and never talk to me again."


Any help is greatly appreciated
Thanks!

 

[EasySkanking]

1. (me thinking to myself)"That pause in the phone conversation was MY fault, this person is going to hang up now, and think i am a complete awkward loser who is too selfish to talk on the phone. Any pause in conversation will make this person completely hate you and never talk to you again."(This is basically the same thought process i have when talking with someone in any situation, just worse on the phone)

Whether I am selfish or not, is none of the other person's business. Being selfish allows me to survive and feel comfortable. Survival is essential in preserving my life. I should have the right to be as selfish as I wish. There are often (if not always) pause in conversations, between interactions of people. It's nothing abnormal. This person will most likely not think anything negative of me due to a pause, because he/she understands/knows that pauses often happen. Pauses in conversations are normal.

2. (me thinking to myself)"I am not allowed to look this person in the eye. Since i feel a little uncomfortable doing it, this person MUST realize my discomfort, and hate me for it. They will tell me i am weird, and never talk to me again."

Even when people think I am weird or quiet, most people are understanding and will NOT hate me for it. My anxiety has caused a lot of people to see me as weird or strange, but that has not stopped them from talking to me, and they certainly do not HATE me because of it. I can look anyone in the eye just as anyone can look me in the eye. It is a common procedure between interactions of people, just as is being close to someone to speak to them. Everyone is entitled to look at me in the eye, because that's how we communicate. And I am entitled to look anyone in the eye as well, because I am human as well.

Something like that. I couldn't get them exactly to fit your believes or situation because I don't know you that well. But I did them according to how I feel about it deep inside

 

[AutonomousAutomaton]

If there's a pause in the conversation that means they can't think of something to say either.

 

[AutonomousAutomaton]

It's ok if they know I'm uncomfortable. There's no reason for them to hate me.

 

[UnOccupied]

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the responses.

I actually am trying to become more selfish. But, that is the weird part. I am NOT selfish at all, i dont think any of us are. We focus SO much on others feelings on thoughts, leaving no time for our own. I totally agree with what you say about pauses in the conversation. Thanks!

And yes, if someone hates me without a rational reason, there must be something wrong with them.

The thing i love about CBT is that is really helps us to slow down and realize our moods and feelings are ALL a product of our thoughts. But, when we slow down, we realize the thoughts that lead to these feelings more. Like, i never would have realized these thoughts prior to CBT, because i would be thinking so fast, and be unable to catch them before the severe anxiety and accompanying depression comes.

Thanks again! Any more suggestions are warmly welcomed, i love other peoples perspectives on my irrational thoughts. It is not an easy thing to rationalize your irrational beliefs and thoughts, because we have thought them and believe them for SO long.

 

[UnOccupied]

Here's another one i need some help with:

(thought) I MUST keep my head up while walking around campus, because if i see someone, and don't say hi, they will either think i am ignoring them, or being a jerk by not saying hi, or that they will realize i am too awkward and scared to say hi, and will totally think less of me for it.

 

[agoraphobickatie]

1. (me thinking to myself)"That pause in the phone conversation was MY fault, this person is going to hang up now, and think i am a complete awkward loser who is too selfish to talk on the phone. Any pause in conversation will make this person completely hate you and never talk to you again."(This is basically the same thought process i have when talking with someone in any situation, just worse on the phone)

the thing about any conversation at all, is that it's between two or more people.. it "takes two to tango", know what i mean? if there's any pressure to be put on anyone, it's equally divided amongst the two of you or whomever is in the conversation. so it could never be ALL your fault at all ..and anyway, for all you know, that person could feel the very same way.. during any pause ever in a conversation, i can honestly say that i have never ever thought anything about someone being too 'selfish' to talk to me.

2. (me thinking to myself)"I am not allowed to look this person in the eye. Since i feel a little uncomfortable doing it, this person MUST realize my discomfort, and hate me for it. They will tell me i am weird, and never talk to me again."

if ever you are talking with someone who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you feel any discomfort and they tell you that you're weird and they never want to talk to you again, you should thank them for helping you weed out the rude and inconsiderate people in your life.. ha! that would just be hateful, ya know? be open and be yourself, if you feel discomfort, then feel it, it's completely okay anyway.. anyone that has some huge issue with it probably has many other issues that you don't want to handle...


...and generally speaking about rationalization-- think about your own perspective (i'm sure you've probably heard this from your therapist before) ..think about how YOU would feel if you were that other person, would you think "wow, this dude just paused for like three seconds.. what the hell is he thinking?! doesn't he know that my time is valuable and he shouldn't be wasting it!? ugh.. i should just hang up this phone right now in his face and never talk to him again.. i mean, who does he think he is?!" .......chances are, you wouldn't think that! i don't know anyone who could possibly think that! lol, we may have our own little SA issues, but our perspectives often mirror those of the ones we may be intimidated by..
also, we may be intuitive people.. i know i can read almost anyone like a book. i can tell how they feel even when they aren't speaking it or are even trying to hide it.. not everyone else is like that. not everyone can read your mind and see straight through you. in fact, most people can't.. people aren't genies with weird mind tricks and special powers, ya know?

i hope this helped some ::

 

[agoraphobickatie]

(thought) I MUST keep my head up while walking around campus, because if i see someone, and don't say hi, they will either think i am ignoring them, or being a jerk by not saying hi, or that they will realize i am too awkward and scared to say hi, and will totally think less of me for it.

this is a good one, it's easy almost everyone is in their own world, we all just have different ways of showing it.. even if you do walk around with your head up at all times (which no one does) and you don't say hi to someone, it's completely fine and acceptable! no one ever has any idea of what has gone on throughout your day.. if you have to, just give a little smile if you make eye contact with someone when walking past them.. and anyway, if you don't know them, then who cares

i don't know if this will help, but it's an example of one of my rationalizations that once i 'realized' or whatever, it really helped me.... i'm really nervous about going places alone. say to the mall or something.. i think what happens if i go into this store and pass out or something while i'm shopping (which has never happened, idk why i'm afraid of it, lol) i'm scared that i'll just fall out in the middle of everyone.. what if i have on a dress or skirt and when i fall out my skirt flies up and you can see my undies or i land weird and look awkward and wake up embarrassed (again, i have no idea why it's these thoughts that are in my head, lol) ..so i'm telling this to my therapist and she's like, 'you think everyone is evil don't you?' lol.. i'm like wtf? but yeah, i felt like more people are evil than good... when in reality, though it hardly ever seems like it, more people really are good than evil.. surely there'd be some lady or girl or whomever who would be genuinely concerned, cover my private parts if i have some kind of wardrobe malfunction and they would do whatever to help me.. i know that if i saw someone fall out in the middle of the mall, that would be my first reaction, i'd help them, i wouldn't think any bad thoughts about them, i'd simply be concerned and want to do everything i could to help.. i'm certainly not the only person who would be that way, ya know? moral of the story, things became much easier for me when i realized that not everyone is 'evil', there are still lots and lots of 'good' people left in the world...

okay.. sorry! i keep typing you novels! lol

 

[UnOccupied]

katie, thanks for the reply. I only read your first comment, will read the second tomorrow(SOO tired, haha sorry). But, i absolutely LOVE your comment, "if ever you are talking with someone who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you feel any discomfort and they tell you that you're weird and they never want to talk to you again, you should thank them for helping you weed out the rude and inconsiderate people in your life.. ha! " Especially the thanking them part, hilarous. So true, i never thought about it that way. For some reason, the way you worded that made me sort of realize in another way to my mind that i AM in fact allowed to feel my emotions, display them, and me comfortable with them. As bad or as good as they are.

Other people have a way of getting into my mind in a different way. I feel bad for people who don't tell people things they are thinking AT ALL. Like, i have so much trouble telling people in real life. But, thank god for these forums, and my therapist where i can at least try a little bit. So, again, thanks for that reinforcing perspective of my thought.


ALL replies here are greatly appreciated guys and girls! Thanks so much again. I love these forums.

So tired, bedtime for me.

Night,
-Un

 

[UnOccupied]

Irrational thought: Why do i talk!? I must look so awkward and make others so uncomfortable when i talk at them, because they have to deal with me awkwardly trying to look them in the eye. I am so weird!

Irrational thought: I can't show that i am happy, or happy for others, because this is just a recreational sport, and the other team will think i am stupid for being so happy over such a small game. Why can't i just be cool like the guys on the other team?


I was having these troublesome thoughts while playing a sport today with a bunch of girls and guys. Whenever i would turn around to say "nice play" or something nice like that, i would get so down on myself for opening up my mouth. I was surprised i am still dealing with irrational thoughts like this(at this point in CBT), but i guess its just the reality i am in right now. I have a tough time rationalizing thoughts in this situation, but a quick thought or statement would be really helpful for me, because my thoughts are already SOOO racy when around girls, and playing sports.

Thanks for the help! All suggestions are welcome. It doesn't have to be perfect, i appreciate ALL suggestions and tries at helping my brain.

 

[agoraphobickatie]

you shouldn't be worried about struggling with your irrational thoughts, they might always be there, but eventually, after enough practice, you'll get much better at shooting them down quickly and shutting them out.. trust me, i know from experience, lol... used to when i would have some crazy thought, i'd freak out about it and it'd give me anxiety, but as i worked through CBT, it got easier to shut the thought up and move on to the next thing...

as far as those thoughts ^^ about playing sports and talking and whatnot... just know that whatever you're doing, you're being yourself.. if you're excited then you're excited, that's just the way it is if people have a problem with it, then you just have to realize that their negative opinions don't always matter... being happy or voicing your opinion isn't something you should try to limit, ya know? and anyway.. do you know how many crazy insane sports fans there are?! lol, people not even playing the sport go absolutely nuts just watching the tv! i'm one of them! haha, yelling at the tv and anyone around me whenever a football game is on.. i just get into it, lol, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[UnOccupied]

Thanks again for the advice Katie. I like your perspective on things That's a good point i sometimes forget...that the thoughts may always be there. I cannot expect them to magically disappear, but i need to remember to devalue them, and realize they are not the truth. Also, i don't always need to get rid of them. Simply saying these thoughts are not true, i can still do ANYTHING in the world with them, they may just make it a little bit more challenging, may just be enough to get me through tough times like this for me.

How long have you been doing CBT for?

 

[agoraphobickatie]

i first saw my therapist in june of 2009 and now i don't even have to go see her anymore, although i love that lady and make appointments sometimes just to discuss random things in my life, lol.. i started more intense CBT/exposure therapy around november/december of last year and improved pretty quickly (in my opinion) when i really started challenging myself and my thoughts, while it was hard to do, it became easier and easier to do more and more ..does that make sense? lol

 

[Confuseddd]

what is agoraphobia?

 

[agoraphobickatie]

what is agoraphobia?

basically for me, it's an intense fear of being in public, anywhere outside of my "safe zone"...

 

[UnOccupied]

i first saw my therapist in june of 2009 and now i don't even have to go see her anymore, although i love that lady and make appointments sometimes just to discuss random things in my life, lol.. i started more intense CBT/exposure therapy around november/december of last year and improved pretty quickly (in my opinion) when i really started challenging myself and my thoughts, while it was hard to do, it became easier and easier to do more and more ..does that make sense? lol

Wow, that is very impressive Katie, it seems like a very quick recovery for you. Do you feel "satisfied" with your social anxiety. Like, do you feel like you are where you want to be in life, socially? I've been doing CBT for 2 and a half months now, and feel a lot better. But, i feel as if i may never be satisfied with myself, no matter how good i feel :/

 

[UnOccupied]

I thought of SUCH A GOOD rational statement today, but i was wondering if anyone could help me expand on this, or give me your input on it. Ok, so i was in class today, and i have this problem where when i am looking at the teacher, i feel like everyone in my line of vision will think i am staring at them, or that they will be staring at me, and seeing how i am feeling uncomfortable.

So, my rational statement that i thought of while in class was:

If these people have nothing better to do in class than judge me and look at me, then there must be something wrong with them.

This worked really well for me. I have a problem listening to the teacher and focusing on my work in class, because of the problem with all the people there who are my age, and who i assume are judging me. But, i am getting better at focusing on what really matters, the teacher. And, then when i thought of this rational statement, it helped me out a lot. And, i was very happy i thought of a good rational statement while feeling anxiety, which made me even happier.

 

[UnOccupied]

Can someone help me out with this irrational thought please?

Whenever i want to thank someone, and be sincere, i run into troublesome thoughts. For instance, if i say:

"Thanks, i appreciate it." ...I always think people think i'm being a jerk when i say this. This causes me to say it REALLLLY fast, and i like can't look them in the eye, and i just say to myself, "wow, they probably think i'm just being a smart ass and not being sincere at all. They must hate me for this."

Anyone have any rationale for this?

Thanks!