ETS - Finally!

[Reaching-Zen]

Sorry to hear the surgery was unsuccesful. :? I copied and pasted an article on a possible answer. I got it from a link of Alvinsduckies post on the previous page. I would however, suggest talking to your surgeon or doctors for some more answers.




Flushing
Many patients find that after ETS they develop a flushing problem. There seems a lot of confusion as to why this happens, so all we can do is repeat some of the ideas which attempt to explain this. A distinction is drawn here between blushing, and flushing. Sympathectomy surgeon Telaranta describes blushing as a sympathetic mechanism, whilst flushing is a parasympathetic mechanism. One might wonder then whether removing sympathetic tone allows the parasympathetic system to take over, thus causing flushing.

Another idea is that the sympathetic system is responsible for constricting the blood vessels, whilst the parasympathetic system allows for the opposite. Thus, removal of sympathetic tone allows too much parasympathetic stimuli, engendering vasodilatation, which manifests as redness on the face. This ties in with the reason for using ETS to treat Raynauds of the hands ~ to remove sympathetic tone, thus the blood vessels dilate, so that they get warmer. Telaranta is quoted as saying that dilation of blood vessels in the peripheries due to sympathectomy is a tool for treating Raynauds, but the same action does not happen in the face because the sympathetic system works differently there.

A much simpler idea is that, where before ETS, flushing due to heat, hormones and emotion could be avoided through the natural cooling mechanism of perspiration from the head, the inability to release this heat causes flushing.

ETS surgeon Reisfeld suggests the problem is due to denervation hypersensitivity. Here, the blood vessels become very sensitive to certain circulating hormones within the blood system

 

[Ihateit]

I had T2 one side and T2 and T3 the other side. The nerves were cut. I rather not say who performed my surgery but I had it done in an London hospital.

I am experiencing side effects such as dry hands, more sweating then usual. The only thing that the procedure has cured is the facial sweating and hand sweating.

The pain has all gone now, however I do experience a little awkard pain on my left side now and again.

I just wish that it would of helped the facial blushing because I was relying on it so much to work so I could do the job I have always wanted to do. I am unemployed at the moment and left my last job just before I went into hospital. I'm a little lost at the moment but who knows .. things may become better mentally if not physically.

Thanks for the article Reaching-Zen.

 

[TforceNab]

I had T2 one side and T2 and T3 the other side. The nerves were cut. I rather not say who performed my surgery but I had it done in an London hospital.

I am experiencing side effects such as dry hands, more sweating then usual. The only thing that the procedure has cured is the facial sweating and hand sweating.

The pain has all gone now, however I do experience a little awkard pain on my left side now and again.

I just wish that it would of helped the facial blushing because I was relying on it so much to work so I could do the job I have always wanted to do. I am unemployed at the moment and left my last job just before I went into hospital. I'm a little lost at the moment but who knows .. things may become better mentally if not physically.

Thanks for the article Reaching-Zen.

So sorry to hear about the let down regarding the ETS procedure. I too suffer quite bad facial blushing. However, my options are limited mainly due to financial reasons as opposed to objection.

My ambition dream is to join the Police. However, I cannot bring myself to apply because in the selection process, there is obviously an interview, assessment day which consists of public speaking and role play, then a final interview with two officers as well as a 'big man/woman'. That alone is quite daunting.

Get through that, and you have the day to day confrontations of gangs, teenagers, social inadequates etc. Follow through on a case, interview a suspect with a solicitor present who are payed to try and contradict the Police and defend their client by any means is a blusher's nightmare.

I know I am capable of the job, however, this severe embarrasing problem is preventing me from applying. I am gutted. I was pinning my hopes on ETS if I managed to find the money for it, but now that idea has been punctured.

I feel now, that I may well have to resign myself to a second best career choice. All because of a stupid, horrible physical problem I have that mentally prevents me from confidently pursuing my true ambition.

Those who don't blush really do not know how good they have it. I'd swap genuine shyness without facial blushing for sweaty armpits, brow and red face any day of the year!!

 

[Ihateit]

/\ I really wanna join the Police aswell .... but with this constant blushing/flushing of face for no reason there is no way I can. I have wanted to join since I was little and its just a shame that whilst I really want to join I have this stupid blushing problem.

I am currently looking for small office based jobs as that is the only thing I feel quite confident in doing.

I am so scared to go out to see friends etc cause of it ..... its just ruining my life .... I am off to the doctors tomorow to see if there is anything else that can be done which I highly doubt.... but as always will keep everyone updated.

 

[TforceNab]

/\ I really wanna join the Police aswell .... but with this constant blushing/flushing of face for no reason there is no way I can. I have wanted to join since I was little and its just a shame that whilst I really want to join I have this stupid blushing problem.

I am currently looking for small office based jobs as that is the only thing I feel quite confident in doing.

I am so scared to go out to see friends etc cause of it ..... its just ruining my life .... I am off to the doctors tomorow to see if there is anything else that can be done which I highly doubt.... but as always will keep everyone updated.

Please do. I am tempted to try hypnosis to see how that works out. I got an email from a specialist in my area explaining everything about how the procedure works, what the desired results are etc. It sounded very convincing, however, if hypnosis was really effective as they say, I'd imagine it would have more of a positive reputation.

When I was younger, I did blush a lot more often, and one thing that does seem to help blushing is customer focused occupations. It was tough at first, but to conquer your fears, I suppose you have to stare them in the face first!

I think as a result of the blushing I had when younger, I seemed to have constant red marks around the top cheek area, as if they were bags under my eyes. I hated that, so I had some treatment done to try and remove them. This treatment was called IPL (Intense Pulsed Light) which I was told would also reduce facial blushing. I have to say, it defo seemed to have an effect, however, due to a bad patch financially, I didn't complete the course.

It is apparently long term, not permanent, but a couple of treatments for 5-10 years, if not more, relief from blushing is well worth it. I may well have a look a bit more into that. This was 5 years ago, and I assume cheaper and more advanced methods/technology is available now.

Do you live in the UK? I will have a bit more of a scout about on the net, and if I see anything that sounds promising, I'll be sure to pass the info on. Hopefully we can both find a solution sooner rather than later.

Take care.

EDIT:

http://www.aestheticbeautycentre.co.uk/photorejuvenation.htm

Here is the treatment I received from the centre I went to for it. Be sure to check the other treatments too, and especially the Media section at the bottom of the homepage. This guy has a very good reputation and has been on local (possibly national) tv, and newspapers etc. Worth a look...let me know what you think.

 

[Ihateit]

Thanks for the link ... at this stage I would give anything a go ... am guessing it will cost quite a bit ... I was looking for any info on fees but I couldn't find anything. I have quite noticeable red blotches on both of my cheeks that is very annoying so this would hopefully help.

I am still only young am hoping to cure this so I can get on with my life, if not cure then at least reduce it somehow. So any info would be much appreciated

Yeah I am from the UK (London).

 

[TforceNab]

Thanks for the link ... at this stage I would give anything a go ... am guessing it will cost quite a bit ... I was looking for any info on fees but I couldn't find anything. I have quite noticeable red blotches on both of my cheeks that is very annoying so this would hopefully help.

I am still only young am hoping to cure this so I can get on with my life, if not cure then at least reduce it somehow. So any info would be much appreciated

Yeah I am from the UK (London).

Well in 2003, I went for a free consultation. I explained about the red marks on my cheekbones, and how much of an issue they were for me, especially in a warm room when coming in from the cold, under direct bright light etc. Straight away he told me it was a mild form of Rosacae, and even though I didn't blush at the time of the consultation, he said he was fairly confident in guessing that I suffer with flushing/blushing.

He asked what exactly I wanted to achieve...at the time I just wanted the red marks gone - I didn't realise these Aesthetics places had treatment for blushing. He told me it would help reduce flushing and I have to say, it certainly did help. I only had two sessions out of an advised 5 or 6 so the results could have been so much better if I'd been able to complete the course. I wish I could have...I was 20 and money was tight at the best of times.

The price for the 6 sessions was quoted at £1000. I was knocked side ways! Being so naive, I assumed I would only need 2 treatments, for about £50 each! I payed roughly £195 for each session, each one a month apart for the skin to recuperate. I wasn't keen on waiting 6 months for the course to finish, because I wanted a fix there and then! However, each session, you do notice a decent improvement each time.

The good news is, I went back for another treatment 4 years later but only had one (I ended up in a financial sticky mess again) and again, I noticed a difference with both red marks and blushing. This time, upon paying up, I only payed £105! I wasn't complaining with a £90 saving from last time! It could be even cheaper now. The doctor explained that as more advanced equpiment comes out, he doesn't need to charge as much for the 'older' (but still VERY effective) equipment, which I thought was very honest and decent of him.

On the rare occasion I did feel myself blushing, it felt very mild...enough to still feel comfortable to look people in the eye. I am defo looking to go back, as the two problems are related. As I blush, my cheekbones act as 'blood pockets', and as the blushing decreased, so did the blood fed to my 'blood pockets', hence less noticeable red marks.

I would certainly recommend trying it, as we all know, treatments for anything can work good for some, and not so for others. I'd assume the price for a session now would be about £85...if I get a chance, I will quote it up for you as an approximation based on my own personal consultation. They should still have my details on file, so they may be able to give me a price over the phone.

You also say you have blotches on your face, and I would almost certainly say you have a form of Rosacae too. Can I ask how young you are, because age can also be a very important factor. Also, has the Police always been your career aim - the job you spoke about when creating this thread?

If your problem is similar to mine, this treatment may also kill two birds with one stone and treat both the blushing and the blotches. Can't be bad.

Let me know your thoughts! It would be great for us both to prove to be successful stories on this forum!

Take care.

 

[Ihateit]

I would pay anything to get rid / reduce redness in any case ... as soon as I have a job that is. I missed a doctors appointment today in which I was going to ask the GP about anything they can suggest which will help ... but I was having a bad day as sometimes I do when I feel like I can't leave the house.

Can I ask if there was any sort of side affects from the treatment.

I am 20. Yes, joining the Police is something I have wanted to do from a young age and it is the job I was on about when creating the thread. I'm not sure if it will ever happen but as long as there are options out there to help with the blushing/flushing theres always little hope.

 

[TforceNab]

I would pay anything to get rid / reduce redness in any case ... as soon as I have a job that is. I missed a doctors appointment today in which I was going to ask the GP about anything they can suggest which will help ... but I was having a bad day as sometimes I do when I feel like I can't leave the house.

Can I ask if there was any sort of side affects from the treatment.

I am 20. Yes, joining the Police is something I have wanted to do from a young age and it is the job I was on about when creating the thread. I'm not sure if it will ever happen but as long as there are options out there to help with the blushing/flushing theres always little hope.

You will join the Police, trust me! At age 20, all sorts of chemcials, hormones etc. are still kicking about in your body which can only make matters worse. Kinda remnants from puberty! I still think I do - I'm a slow developer and a kid at heart!

I first applied with the Police at 18.5, and I passed all of the tests though they said I did not have enoguh life experience. I think that contributed towards my blushing.

Now with the years gone by, the jobs I have had have helped me combat my blushing and it does occur less, even more so with those few sessions.

There is no known real side effects from this treatment as it is non-invasive. No tampering with nerves, snipping this, snipping that. It basically works by burning the lesions, veins etc. that causes most problems in the face, and then the body's natural repair process takes place. You end up with smoother skin, and reduced blood rush to the treated area. I aint a specialist in it or anything, that is just the basic conception I got of it! All I know is that it does actually make a difference.

You can have the treatment in your dinner break and resume work straightaway...no downtime which is partly due to multiple sessions too. It has a very high success and satisfaction rate, and I can confidently say myself (I can be hard to please) it does actually work, and this is with only a quarter of the recommended sessions.

Resuming these sessions is my first choice - when I said I hoped for ETS, I meant that hopefully the doctor would feel sorry enough for me to put me through it via the NHS. In this day in age, money is now more important than ever when you have a family to support too.

Go for it, I can almost guarantee satisfaction. As I say, it takes a lot to impress me...I can be a persistent critic at times, and the benefits of this treatment were obvious, not slight.

Any more questions, ask away. I may be bending your ear when it comes to ETS!

Edit:

Sorry, after a bit more research, a small minority have experienced what they say are side effects of IPL. They complain mainly of fat loss to treated area, slight burns and indentations to the skin. I personally never experienced any of this, so it could be any number of factors. The Doctor/Nurse, sensitive skin, poor procedures, age etc.

I for one would regard myself as a part success story. As with anything, do the research and weigh up the pro's and con's of which you best think suits your own personal needs and circumstances.

 

[Ihateit]

Well I hope so even if I apply in a few years time once I have overcome the things I need to overcome I will be happy.

Am still looking into the treatment, and am going to arrange for a free consultation as soon as I have a few other things back on track.

Ask away with any questions for ETS, I'll be more than happy to share.

Can I ask if you have asked your doctor if you could have ETS or is it just something you want them to suggest? I kept on at my doctors since I left school (aged 16) to get this surgery and eventually one doctor who was 100% against the idea referred me.

 

[googleinc]

Dude... You dont need to worrie about going red to join the police!! I know of a policeman who goes red ALL THE TIME!!

The trick is to keep it together.

 

[DaaaBulls]

In all honesty looking at my life right now pretty much all of my anxiety/tension/social inabilities are due to my sweaty hands. I'm only 22 and this should be a time where I am enjoying life. I say if you want to get ETS then do it, yeah there might be side effects but honestly how many people get the surgery and have it go great with little side effects and just move on and llive life, while the people who have those side effects have no where to turn and come directly to these sites to post their horror stories. So while you may think it is like 80% that you will get devastating side effects it may only be 5-10% because we never here from the people who are doing fine. I know one thing, I'm not enjoying life right now so what could it hurt?

 

[Ihateit]

I agree, if people want to get ETS they should. Even though I have had it done and it did not work, it may work for others. I do not for one single second regret having it done, I am annoyed by the fact it did not work for me, but I wouldn't say its a 'horror story'. ETS has made me have dry hands, but saying that I did not really have sweaty hands to begin with, I had it minor. Again, its a side effect but not necessarily a bad thing.

(Btw, I am female to those who direct posts thinking I am male lol)

 

[Reaching-Zen]

Dudette now that you have tried ETS and are not impressed with its results, you should try 6 months of Kung Fu or Tai Chi. This will give you more confidence, health, fitness, but most importantly, mental fitness and inner calmness. If Kung Fu seems a bit full on with its contact sparring, then try Tai Chi. Tai Chi is like slow motion Kung Fu and is similar to Yoga, but gives you a lot of mental qualities essential to reducing your problem. It focuses on meditation, concentration, self discipline, mental health, relaxation and confidence. All these qualities can only benefit everyone in every way. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain. Not only that, if you do end up in the police force, the skills learnt will benefit you there.

 

[Ihateit]

I haven't posted in here in a while but I have had a terrible week so I just wanted to get it off my chest. I started a new job this week and I feel like leaving already. I really do not know how much more I can take of this blushing. I am getting my GP to refer me back to the surgeon/consultant who done my ETS, I really hope there is some more that can be done. I just do not know know what to do in the meantime, I can't take any days off or take sick leave because it will not look very good. It is so embarassing going to meetings and having a burning, red face and feeling so sick that I feel just like running out the room. I have no one I can talk to. No one knows about my problem and the fact that I had ETS. I have to go through it all by myself. I feel so lonely and so scared because I just feel like I am falling into a big hole and will never be able to pick myself back up. I feel stupid, ashamed and humiliated.

 

[Nicholas]

Damn it, when I saw this thread I thought I could be in time to tell you "DON'T do it!"
I'm sorry. ::

The thing is, ETS is not a cure for anything. It just deals with symptoms, just like medications. Why shouldn't anyone do it? For a simple reason: Why should anyone try messing around with their nerves and try a new kind of surgery (not universally accepted or secure) when the truth is no one in the whole world even knows what the causes of HH or blushing are, or knows anything for sure yet?

I have severe HH, and I don't want to try ETS anyway. I have heard of too many people that had serious trouble after the operation. And considering what I said above, it's not accepted yet, it's just a way to try to cure the symptoms. I know I feel these heatwaves on my face whenever I am uncomfortable, so I just don't know how cutting some nerves will help me cure the real cause.

My current theory is that at least part of my HH, and all my heatwaves must be caused by some "emotional problems" I have, which then act like they are real physical stressors. These emotional problems must be acting like a form of rejection of society or some situations, they must be telling me "I am going to suffer and society won't accept me, I want to run and hide and refuse all this", and then your body reacts by blushing.

Still working on that though, I have a long way to go. :: But don't be too depressed, just keep on trying hard, try to avoid mistakes, try to see if anything at all can bring even a minor change in your life. Take care.

 

[Ihateit]

Before I decided to go for the surgery, I knew the risks, side effects, had read the negative reports about the procedure but I had also read some positive reports from people that had already had the procedure and that swayed me to go through with it. I do not regret the surgery. I was desperate, still am which is why I will try anything to help with my problem.

If the hospital had not agreed to do the surgery for me I do not know what I would of done. I still consider my facial blushing to be a physical problem which causes my anxiety etc. I will try any medication or surgery that may help me. I am just so desperate at this moment in time. No amount of psychological help will help me, I have been there and done that. It does not help. How can a pshychologist cure something that is obviously a physical problem.

Thank you both for you posts though, and to warn me, prior to you knowing that I had already had ETS.

 

[Ihateit]

Could this operation spare your blushes? | Mail Online

I found this article today, not sure when it was published but I am pretty happy that I found it. It is a different form of operation, similar to ETS. It says they deal with the nerves in the neck. Not sure if it would be allowed for me to have this when I have already had the ETS.

I have requested for some advice from a consultant at the stated hospital. I am willing to go private if it will help me. It is worth a shot.

 

[Nicholas]

As that article says, it's a psychological problem, it's anxiety. I still don't get why a psychological problem should be treated by cutting nerves and stuff. That article also says you won't be able to sweat on you face anymore, and as a result you might have compensatory sweating. Well, THAT is common in those who have ETS for hyperhidrosis, and you would NOT want to have that. If the operation is not reversible, please, don't even think of trying it.

Dr Mitra says, 'That's the trade off you make for not blushing. But patients say they would rather sweat more than blush.'
Big LOL at that! I would prefer to blush rather then having HH.

I think you should cure your anxiety first, not blushing. If you cure blushing, you are curing a symptom, but your anxiety will probably come back with another new symptom, like panic attacks or something (even though "blushing attacks" are already a kind of panic attack in my opinion)

Take care.

 

[Ihateit]

I am already suffering from the CS and my face does not sweat anymore from the ETS I have already had, so what is the worst that can happen.

I agree that cutting nerves is a big issue and if I had a choice I would not have had it done before and I would not even consider do it again. If its helps the blushing at least that will be one step to curing my anxiety issues.

I agree with Dr Mitra's statement about the trade of for not blushing would be sweating instead. That is how I thought when I had the ETS previously. Even though it did not cure my blushing, if there is anothe surgery that I could have to attempt to cure my blushing I will consider it.

I have attemped to cure my anxiety, for years I have been trying to with no luck. Which is why lately and now I have had to start considering alternative causes of action ie. surgery, because it seems like the last option.

I do understand what you are saying, and your advice is really good, I just hope you can understand my point of view about the problem.