Demonic experiences
- Thread starter Bronson99
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Flanscho
Well-known member
Let's think of a generic scientists, and call him... hm... Peter. Peter observes. He gathers information from those observations. And he tries to explain those observations with a theory that seems logical, and that is based on those observations and on knowledge Peter already had. Next, Peter gathers more information to try to prove his theory, and presents it to the rest of the scientific community, so that they can check that theory out. Maybe they find information that proves that the theory is true. Maybe they find information that proves that the theory is wrong. In the latter case, Peter will have to come up with another theory.
That's what Peter does. Peter doesn't claim randomly that something somebody else claims is wrong for no reason whatsoever. And of course you are right, reality takes shape in our heads. However, if a person claims that something exists. And that person has no evidence, and no logical theory, and can't reliably make others experience the same, and if what that person says doesn't seem to make sense to Peter based on what he already knows: why should Peter assume that what that person says is true?
If someone tells me "I saw a demon".
And if I reply "I don't believe that demons exist".
Then both of us have an opinion based on the experience we made and what seems to make most sense to us.
Why would that make me evil, just because I don't randomly believe everything?
Especially considering that I give each and everyone the chance to convince me that my current opinion is wrong. If you say "I think that we have microscopic invisible unicorns grazing on our heads", then I also say "that doesn't make any sense to me, but feel free to convince me otherwise".
In many ways I stick to my intuition and to my emotions when it's about deciding stuff. In many other ways, I stick to logic. What's wrong with that?
Why is saying "I think that my blanket is filled with anti-matter and pixie dust" good, and saying "I don't think so" bad? Why are people who doubt things that can't be proven, that make no sense, that are logically flawed, automatically "evil" according to some people?
Is it because so many people long for supernatural things? For glittering vampires that might give them immortality? For a life after death? Maybe especially people who have some social anxiety problem often flee from the reality as it is, and change it intp their mind in something more magical, something more friendly than the world they know? Maybe that's why some people are so sensitive when someone says "that makes no sense", because they fear that their protection from the world as science tells us it is might fall apart if they lose their faith in the supernatural? That they either get aggressive or flee when someone says something that might destabilize their magical forcefield to keep out reality and give their life a higher meaning?
In that case: sorry. I try to be open minded in so far as I consider anything that seems remotely logical to me to be possibly true. But the same I also consider stuff that makes no sense to me to be incorrect. That's the way I am.
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Bronson99
Well-known member
I meant a person, such as one or two people here in this thread, discussing their own strange unprovable experiences. (About phenomena that do actually exist and can be proven, good point, but it's not what I'm discussing right now.)
I just felt that you reacted in a semi-condescending manner to someone here who was simply describing their experience and their opinion, about strange and/or demonic phenomena. The point is.. you should soften your tone when you deconstruct someone's position, otherwise it seems like you just want to step on sandcastles and claim you're always right.
Bronson99
Well-known member
Such a person would not be me. Sometimes I will play devil's advocate, however, and I think that may be what you're reacting to. Sometimes I like to stir the soup, and I admit it's not the greatest habit, but sometimes has interesting results.
I've never experienced it and I'm also a little bit obsessed, but that don't make me childish.
Bronson99
Well-known member
It's not wrong. But the problem here, and perhaps in other venues when you respond to someone sharing an unlikely/unusual experience, is the way you respond to them. When responding to someone here, you brought up an ana-logy of somebody convinced cars are alive and recording various honks and other noises--well, that will be perceived as condescension. That is what is causing the friction. I cannot make you behave in a more diplomatic/polite way, but that is what I would like to see from you. This behavior of yours comes off in a way it makes it seem you're just decompressing from your real life and having fun pushing people around, just because you can, seeing as you're gifted using ana-logies and other "backhanded" approaches. You may not even be aware that what you write is insulting. But it will be to some.
I know you can do better. I'll be monitoring your progress. I'll be there for you, should you need me.
(And by the way, you can't even write ana-logy in this forum? Come on now)
kihira
1
I like how the scientist in this episode of 'Conspiracy Road Trip' (at 29 mins) explains how he approaches unusual phenomena, in this instance UFO sitings
Conspiracy Road Trip: UFOs - YouTube
Conspiracy Road Trip: UFOs - YouTube
Lea
Banned
To explain it better, I used to have many experiences like that. For example, my body (not the physical body) gets lifted in a way like a stream of water was pushing my back from underneath and make it sit, then stand up, go to the door, go to another room.. or something lifts me up as if I was feather light. Once - it was at a full moon - there was some ugly moldy hand floating in the air and it grasped my hand. It felt very real, so real that I couldn´t believe it. So I squeezed my hand in order to make sure I am not dreaming or someting and it squeezed me back! It was a horror. Then it dragged me across the room.
I don´t know what this all is, and I don´t really care for scientific explanations of this phenomena because I don´t think it can be done as obviously things like the hand or the "demons" aren t material, so a scientific explanations come out as a joke.
I just prefer to leave this question open and don´t try hard to find explanation for it, I don´t need to have answers to everything.
My opinion is, you guys stop discussing it BEFORE you experienced it yourselves, otherwise you don´t know what you´re talking about. After you Flanscho or Bronson had these experiences like I did and still want to claim it is a bs or it needs to be scientifically proven, then go on. But talking about someting you don´t even know what it is, seems to me futile, like threshing empty straw..
I don´t know what this all is, and I don´t really care for scientific explanations of this phenomena because I don´t think it can be done as obviously things like the hand or the "demons" aren t material, so a scientific explanations come out as a joke.
I just prefer to leave this question open and don´t try hard to find explanation for it, I don´t need to have answers to everything.
My opinion is, you guys stop discussing it BEFORE you experienced it yourselves, otherwise you don´t know what you´re talking about. After you Flanscho or Bronson had these experiences like I did and still want to claim it is a bs or it needs to be scientifically proven, then go on. But talking about someting you don´t even know what it is, seems to me futile, like threshing empty straw..
I had some experiences,I had sleep paralasis as a kid,didnt know what it was until since I was grown up.
also was sleeping and a devilish voice was speaking in tongues,I got scared well not really scared,but I tried so hard to move my body that I woke up,turns out that the voice was actually the tv,speaking japanese,that I am familiar with,but in the state that I was,dont know how to describe,but its like you are sleeping and awake at the same time,I didnt really recognized and it sounded devilish.
Also had 'out of body' experience,frankly it was the same state of "sleeping while awake" I was watching my own body,but not really.
slept in my apartment alone,heard noises for weeks,didnt know what it was it woke me up well only a bit I was half asleep,after some time I discovered that it was a cat who entered my apartment,not by the main door,but somehow by the door that lead to the veranda in the 5th floor.
Two times I woke up with my back and body full of scratches,dont know how that happened but it was probably me or some insect.
to me its when the body somehow mixes the state of deep sleep with being awake.
also was sleeping and a devilish voice was speaking in tongues,I got scared well not really scared,but I tried so hard to move my body that I woke up,turns out that the voice was actually the tv,speaking japanese,that I am familiar with,but in the state that I was,dont know how to describe,but its like you are sleeping and awake at the same time,I didnt really recognized and it sounded devilish.
Also had 'out of body' experience,frankly it was the same state of "sleeping while awake" I was watching my own body,but not really.
slept in my apartment alone,heard noises for weeks,didnt know what it was it woke me up well only a bit I was half asleep,after some time I discovered that it was a cat who entered my apartment,not by the main door,but somehow by the door that lead to the veranda in the 5th floor.
Two times I woke up with my back and body full of scratches,dont know how that happened but it was probably me or some insect.
to me its when the body somehow mixes the state of deep sleep with being awake.
oh about the lights turning on and off,mine currently does that,I got a bit scared at the beginning but I am used to now,its been a while,its clear that its some problem with the light,but I am sure other people will see diferent things based on who it is,and if it is in a scary looking house.:thinking:
Isn't there that phenomenon where the sleep process doesn't complete fully, and you're left lingering between concious and sleep at the same time?
Allowing you to experience a nightmare that is seemingly real. If I'm not mistaken, that is also where alien abductions (also believed to be real by many) originate. Sleep paralysis is a common thing when it occurs.
It's not so strange to think that an overlapping dream could make people belief that they're seeing daemons for real.
The brain has a tendency to misdirect reality when it's not functioning optimally, and with the human's natural impulse to look for patterns (and since most people aren't neuroscientist), they usually jump to the an explanation that aligns with their personal beliefs and experiences. For some that's demons, for some that's aliens, and for some it's a creature of an entirely different kind.
Allowing you to experience a nightmare that is seemingly real. If I'm not mistaken, that is also where alien abductions (also believed to be real by many) originate. Sleep paralysis is a common thing when it occurs.
It's not so strange to think that an overlapping dream could make people belief that they're seeing daemons for real.
The brain has a tendency to misdirect reality when it's not functioning optimally, and with the human's natural impulse to look for patterns (and since most people aren't neuroscientist), they usually jump to the an explanation that aligns with their personal beliefs and experiences. For some that's demons, for some that's aliens, and for some it's a creature of an entirely different kind.
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Lea
Banned
The only thing I´m wondering about is, why do I only have crappy or evil dreams or horror nightmares, or be posessed by a demon. Why do I never dream about nice things, or experience paradise or angels??
My usual dreams consist of being late, losing or forgetting things, having things stolen, mistake buses, trains, flights, doing wrong things, today I dreamt of going to Russia and forgetting money, I only had some euros but wasn´t even sure they were euros.. while my schoolmates had everything ok. Like always. A couple of days ago I had a dream where everyone I deal with turns into an evil psycho.. or today I also went on a ferry and it was a storm and I thought we were going to drown.
Sometimes before sleep when I close my eyes, I start seeing ugly things and monsters, everything turning into a monster or some totally scary thing. I could leave it full go but usually I am scared by what it could lead to so I stop. I don´t know why I can´t "see" someting nice instead, but exactly the worse of the worst??
But before you start tearing me apart again, I say it just occurs sometimes to me that it´s strange, not because I was too bothered about it. I take it as it is. It´s rather a theoretical question. But otherwise I am glad that even if my dreams are not of the best contentwise, the dreaming phase of sleep is mostly very deep and refreshing.
My usual dreams consist of being late, losing or forgetting things, having things stolen, mistake buses, trains, flights, doing wrong things, today I dreamt of going to Russia and forgetting money, I only had some euros but wasn´t even sure they were euros.. while my schoolmates had everything ok. Like always. A couple of days ago I had a dream where everyone I deal with turns into an evil psycho.. or today I also went on a ferry and it was a storm and I thought we were going to drown.
Sometimes before sleep when I close my eyes, I start seeing ugly things and monsters, everything turning into a monster or some totally scary thing. I could leave it full go but usually I am scared by what it could lead to so I stop. I don´t know why I can´t "see" someting nice instead, but exactly the worse of the worst??
But before you start tearing me apart again, I say it just occurs sometimes to me that it´s strange, not because I was too bothered about it. I take it as it is. It´s rather a theoretical question. But otherwise I am glad that even if my dreams are not of the best contentwise, the dreaming phase of sleep is mostly very deep and refreshing.
Lea
Banned
For some, you don't get to see too much of Paradise in this earthly, material existence; it's actually waiting for us on the other side. Just remember you have something to look forward to
I may just as well come to hell, we can never know.
skins
1
For some, you don't get to see too much of Paradise in this earthly, material existence; it's actually waiting for us on the other side. Just remember you have something to look forward to
this is truely a wonderfull post..thank you
erfect:
Bronson99
Well-known member
Well so many of your posts are helpful and it seems like you have a good outlook, I would suppose you'd land in heaven.
Sometimes I think manipulative or two-faced people visit hell. But generally I think only those without a single shred of empathy for their fellow man, those who only seek to control and enslave, are the ones who get locked up there.
Expounding further sideways, I don't like prejudice. In my experience, sometimes just a single prejudice or agenda against any group of people will change my opinion about someone else. I have lost friends over this, after they "unmasked" themselves. Do not assume the character of a specific group or religion based on the actions of a relative few. If someone can't do this, then I probably can't be his/her friend.
Lea
Banned
The only sin is to excuse or overlook crimes, because that way you enable the evil spread even further. You know nothing about what I think about this subject and unfortunately couldn´t read my opinions on here because they were deleted.
That´s why you can stop accusing me of "prejudices", as I have NONE. I never had prejudices against anyone, if I meet a person of ANY race or religion I will treat them nicely and with dignity and give them to eat if they ask for it or help them if they need it, AS LONG they don´t do anything harmful to me. The only thing I was getting at was an unfortunate cruelty, hate and mercilesness of some ideologies.
Just throwing it out there: I wonder if humans are capable of doing greater evil than demons and devils. I got this idea from reading this manga: Black Butler (or kuroshitsuji). In the manga, Ciel would do the things that his butler wouldn't do, such as order the burning of the kidnapped disabled children, alive. His butler was portrayed in such a way that he seemed more like an angel than a demon.