Complete Recovery from SP-Heixi Therapy (1)

Jacky1980

Well-known member
Here I would like to give you a link:
www.heixi.com
The reason I didn't put this link earlier is because I don't know whether I am allowed to put a link in this forum.Furthermore, the whole website is Chinese, but you can get a general impression about Mr. Heixi' s status in China. You can find "English" in its homepage. The English webpage is not completed yet, you can only find some feedbacks from some clients and a few articles in it, I am constructing it day by day.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Jacky,

Thanks for going to the trouble to provide the extra information and also -did you say?- to translate it into English. :D

I am going over the information for now. I will get back to you soon though.

Thank you,
LMM
 

Edon1987

Active member
My feelings of anxiety are completly different from other peoples. its not social situations that make me panic, im a good people person.... after a few beers that is lol.

Im shy, i do agree with that, but not to an extreme. my anxiety is rooted in my childhood and is brought to face by the fact that im a jobless teenager that has lost track of his path.

im no longer in college and have had nothing but free time on my hands, im sure that accounts for at least part of my anxiety.

My mother is a stripper, my father is a drug addict, one of my brothers was arrested at 13 for selling meth and being a runaway, and another of my brothers has cut himself and has had extreme depression. Ive spent my years from age 13 to now 19 trying to parent my brothers but its not possible.

ive also tried helping my parents better there situation but niether of them listen to me... im just there kid after all, i cant be that smart ... >.>

however i dont want simpathy, i work out my own problems and slowly i am bettering my and my brothers lifes.

But from what i read here this is the same method i use to control my anxiety.

1. Ive accepted my problem, i know something is wrong and l learned to deal with it. I spend entire nights re-thinking my first panic attack, it was horrible, that night i figured out all kinds of truths about the universe. i felt that maybe i was the only entity in the universe, seeing and feeling everything in the world until it ends and i restart the process all over again. like i was watching a movie, over and over for eternity, i knew what was going to happen and i knew the horrible ending but theres nothing i could do to change it. since then ive accepted that yea, im a little crazy, yea i may be a little self centered, but i know this so i can fix it.

2. i have a family history of schitsophrania (probably not spelled right but ive just drank alot of alchohol and im trying as best as i can lol). I figure that i set this off by the use of Marjiauna... it accells my heart rate enough to trigger a panic attack. since then ive stopped using illegal drugs and i feel much better more often, but i still have random relapses and im utterly afraid of reliving my first panic attack where i learned of the world and the reason of life. i have since forgotten the things i figured out but im thinking thats because i didnt realy figure out anything, i just felt that i did and was linking things that didnt exist, this scares me too because during my panic attack i remember saying spisificly

"Everything in the universe is the same thing, nothing ever changes its always the same but also different"

"It always comes back to this, after years and years it always comes back to this, the same place the same time, its always the same"

"the world, the universe, it all makes since now, but i wont remember it, this is it, its over, its the end, im the only one, i try to explain but no one knows."

and the thing that haunts me the most, a feeling ive never had before

"i know how to fix it, i have to kill myself, its the only way, theres nothing else i can do"

... i said this on my way out to the kitchen, i was going to grab a knife and stab myself... and now im so fucking glad my brother was there to stop me... otherwise i probably wouldnt be here today.


now. those 2 things... ive over come them just slightly by figuring out the problems i have, and just dealing with them. when things start turning back into that day i think to myself

"im just crazy right now, i need to think about this. Nothing is like that day"

even tho alot of things are, then after a while i figure out there not.

knowing my conditions and learning to deal with them has helped me alot. now im not sure if any of this makes since cuz i am a little drunk and i realize that this is pretty long but im just saying, learning to live with your symptoms isnt always bad. i still have them but i dont ignore them, i realize them, i focus on them, and i tear them apart with my intelect.

if you read all of this i thank you and i hope that somehow this has helped at least one person.
 

Jacky1980

Well-known member
Hi, Edon,
The negative environment you are living with accounts for your weak and sensitive personality. It seems to me that your shyness is not a problem, even if I complete recovered now, I still feel shy some times, I never think it is a problem, some girls even like me just for my shyness. Mild shyness would some times increase your charm. Whan makes you suffer is your anxiety and your depression rooted in your childhood,they may not be solved in a short time.
After analyzing your situation, I just raise some personal suggestion:

1.Live a healthy life and quit any drug, You need to have a ambition, and have a dream and make your efforts to realize it. You are so young now, youth is the most precious fortune in the universe.please do not waste it. calm down and think: what is your dream? whan kind of person you want to be? Do you want to parent your brother and make your family live a happy life? If you want to, the first thing is to change yourself, maybe you cannot remove your anxiety, depression and other negative disorders in the short time rooted in your childhood, but you can take action to change your life. What do you want to do now? Further study or find a job to make money? whatever it is, just take action. If you don't do anything everyday, your negative moods will occupy your whole mental world and make you choke. More heathy life will result in less negative mood. So just take action to do something.

2.Deal with your negative moods. They are all uncontrollable, if you have to rethink of that over and over again, just let it be, they are part of yourself, but when you feel temporarily relaxed, just go out and make your life busy.

Remember, think less, do more, you must take action.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Jacky,

Thank you for your help and interest.

I am finding that using Mindfulness eases my anxiety, and I have found a self-help treatment plan that uses this technique in ways that the creator believes will cure anxiety (ie: www.mindfulrecovery.com).

Because Mindfulness does seem to have helped me so far and that when I use it even just in the moment (and not say in meditation) it helps me in that same moment that I am anxious.

The only thing left for me to do at this stage is to continue practising it to see how it works for me and also to look for a therapist with the knowledge of such a technique.

I am still greatful to you for your assistance and the information that you have provided. And it is possible that I may look to it in the future for help -only, you understand, hopefully I won't need to.

So I will still keep Mr Hexi's therapy in mind.
For now I am going with what I know that is helping me.

Thank you once again for your assistance and consideration. :D
Little Miss Muffet
 

Apollos

Member
Jacky1980,

heixi.com is infected. I just clicked on it and got a trojan, fortunately AVG healed it. Its probably coming from one of the adverts. You will want to sort that out a.s.a.p. I'm only posting this to warn others until the problem is fixed.

Apollos.
 

Jacky1980

Well-known member
Hi, littlemissmuffet,
First congratulate on your discovery of a method working on you, sincerely I wish you feel better with each passing day, though I don’t think MCBT can totally make you fully recover, it seems good in removing your symptoms. Here I just state the reason why I don’t think it will fully cure you.
From its name, MCBT, M means Mindfulness, namely Meditation. It is a small branch technique in Buddhism. It can be used to reduce anxiety and fear, and it is widely used in China because the main religion in China is Buddhism. To be exact, Buddhism is not a sort of therapy, it is a religion, but the essence of Buddhism is a real cure to SA even all the other mental sufferings in the world. I used to doubt it myself, but after I completely recovered, I realized the curative effect of it is amazing even unbelievable. Buddhism is broad and profound, It encourages me that Western Therapists turn to Buddhism for some solution, it is really a breakthrough program for doing that. but they really have a long way to go before they go through superficial understanding and catch the essence of it. Even a lot of Oriental therapists don’t understand it, not to mention that western world can master it in a short time. CBT means Cognitive Behavior Therapy, so the essence of MCBT is still Cognitive Behavior Therapy, as long as it is CBT, it can not cure SA. It is truth. Because, there are 3 main development stages in curing SA and all the other neurosis. The first stage is CBT (western therapy), the second stage is Morita Therapy (eastern therapy of Japan ), the ultimate stage, namely the final solution is the essence of Buddhism (which is the core of Heixi Therapy). I never said the CBT or MCBT would not work at all, at least it can remove some symptoms temporarily to make you comfortable for a short time, It is also good. However it cannot make you completely recover, it is not a casual judgment or a guess, It is a conclusion based all sorts of western therapy and eastern therapy (next time I will make a post about the main difference between east therapy and western therapy and state why we should turn to east for the solution of complete cure.). As the host the website said himself, it is only an anxiety reduction solution, which can never replace therapists or psychiatrists. I think he shows a wise attitude by saying so. The target is of Heixi Therapy is not only to make your anxiety reduced, but to make you take a new look, make you go through human reformation, complete eliminate your low self-esteem. It is not big words, I experienced it myself. However, littlemissmuffet, by saying so much, what I mean is not to suggest you should quit your current therapy and turn to Heixi, I am glad that you feel good right now. Although Meditation is only a small branch of Buddhism, it is so wise of you to take the first step. Anxiety-reduction, whether it is temporary or not, is quite useful in the treatment of SA, even if in Heixi therapy, we will also conclude western therapy to make suffers temporarily comfortable in order to smoothly continue the therapy process. However, if what you need is a complete cure instead of a short-time anxiety reduction, I suggest besides your current MCBT, you should at least turn to Morita Therapy, the 2nd development stage in the treatment of SA and other neurosis, I don’t know whether it is popular or easily accessible in your local place, it has much longer-lasting effect. If you need help, I am glad to do so. I once gave an evidence of full recovery, “however they laugh at me, I don’t care”, if you feel this way from the bottom of your heart, you can say that you fully recover. By the way, what sort of messenger tool you are using now, I am glad to exchange view with you. If you don’t mind. As a former sufferer, I believe I can give some guide.

To Apollos,
I am sorry and thanks again for your reminding, our website is undergoing a big operation now to kill that damn Trojan, it will be solved ASAP. And our English Website will be completed soon, by the way, AVG is really a powerful tool, I have been using it for a long time, it is wise of you to use it.
 

phoenix1

Well-known member
Hi Jacky1980,

I find alot of what you say interesting - if a little vague. I agree that repelling the symptoms and fighting them is what creates them or sustains them. But I'm curious as to how would you go about accepting something that other people dont like? The need to be loved and accepted by others drives an incredible need to want to change who you in an effort to fit in better.

If you can have others laugh at you and not care, then yeah you have confidence and low anxiety. But how do you learn to not care when you are so sensitive and have been raised to believe that you have to be perfect in any situation? How do you accept and numb yourself to the point where you can override 15+ years of parenting that makes you think you have to be perfect or you are a complete failure in life?
 

marykate

Member
I am new and have been reading your messages. I think you dont have
any right to say to no one that his therapy (no mather witch) cannot
cure him fully. I did not read you previus post and dont know your
occupation. I presume that you are not psychologist or psychiatrist!!
Cause nobody with any real respect will ever say that to nobody.
Maybe you have been cured with that therapy but saying that others
dont work is quite irensponsible.You don have any scientific evidence
to claim this, only your experience.
I think you should really think twice before saying something like that!
 

Jacky1980

Well-known member
Hi,marykate
Thank you so much for your reminding and I am sorry if my attitude seems a little bit overconfident or seemingly irresponsible. sometimes u know, high confidence of something may sound a little bit proud. Although I think my English is good enough, but after all I am not a native English speaker. So, here I apologized for any improper even wrong word used. However, from the bottom of my heart, I never show any disrespect to any therapy or therapist, as I said in my previous post, I appreciated all the honorable therapist for their contribution, without their contribution as the foundation, there would be no Heixi Therapy.
but in terms of the effect of therapy itself, I must tell the truth, I cannot allow myself to lie:western therapy cannot fully cure SA unless yours is a quite mild one which hardly cause any problem in your life,but it seems good in removing symptoms temporarily,which is the shortcoming of eastern therapy. So I never suggest any sufferer to quit their therapy, I am just here to state the truth. Everyone has their rights to choose their own way.It is wise of so many western therapist to seek solution in the east, but to be frank, they have a long way to go, superficial understanding is not enough. It is the regular pattern of development in all the things in the world. It is not from my personal experience, it is due to the nature difference and cultural difference between east and west. Recently I will post another article to state this topic. I know that my article is a little bit difficult for the western sufferers to understand, I really want to help,so I sincerely suggest you chat with me through MSN personally. I have chatted with many friends in this forum and give them some guide, they all have felt better and understand more and clearer.

phoenix1
I will give my answer to your questions asap.
 

marykate

Member
First of all i did not commented your english, it is fine!Mine is probably
worse!
Second, here you go again!YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT WESTERN
THERAPY CANNOT CURE SF FULLY!WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?YOUR
OWN EXPERIENCE!
You can give advice and help others because you no long have this
problem, you can say that nothing from Western medicine has help
you, but????? So are you saying that there is nobody that has been cured
in Western world ever? This is not true!!!!

I think we do not need somebody to say to us right now that we cannot
fully be cured unless we use Eastern therapy.This is completly irrespon-
sible of you. So, i think it is for the best that you say that it has help you
so much and that there is another solution that can be used.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi jacky,

I don't understand what you mean by 'messenger tool'?

I wanted to get this straight - I am following the technique of Mindfulness (from meditation books such as "Meditation in Plain English" -Chapter 12 'Dealing with Distractions 2', by Gunaratana Mahathera, see www.budsas.org) and specifically using Cesar Bujosa's web page: www.mindfulrecovery.com

(Now, the latter resource, 'mindfulrecovery', does use some CBT, but Mindfulness is the main part as far as I can tell. A person uses mindfulness as a practise in daily life, but also meditates with mindfulness. Also, a person Creatively imagines feared scenarios when they meditate and then switches back into mindfulness in order to fully accept their emotions. This is done to take the strength out of the fear and a person does it until they can remain calm about their fears even when having them -which means that they put perspective back in. Also, a person meditates to discover what unhelpful and reflexives ways of coping with fear that they have. ...Essentially I understand that Acceptance of emotions and the present state of being, and also development of Conscious Awareness -are the strong points of this technique of Mindfulness -and also Creative Imagery meditation. Also, I have recently read that the use of Creative imagery coupled with Mindfulness and/or a stabilising, relaxing and simple kind of meditation, is said to be a very effective technique for dealing with phobias.)

-Now, hopefully you have been looking at www.mindfulrecovery.com
and have found out what I have written in the bracketed paragraph above. Because I think www.mindfulrecovery.com falls under what is called Mindfulness Based Anxiety Reduction and isn't technically Mindfulness Cogntive Therapy. ...I for one don't know enough about what MCBT consists of , but the point here is that whatever difference exists between what I am doing at mindfulrecover.com and MCBT -I just wanted to get it straight that I am doing the program at www.mindfulrecovery.com and not strictly MCBT.

If you have been looking and talking about the www.mindfulrecovery.com
and having read the "Treatment" section have the opinion that this program is less than very effective.... well, there is not much that I can say other than that it is wisest that I trust first and foremost my own experience -and this is one that so far, given my experience, tells me to certainly continue with such a therapy.

I am glad that in your response to Mary Kate, that you said something along the lines of that CBT may only be effective for those whose anxiety disorders are less severe. ....I think that this is a much more tactful and likely more correct opinion. -I've also made the error of claiming CBT to be ineffective, and in doing so have been blinded a bit by my own personal experience. And, the fact that obviously for some CBT is effectivee, does suggest that at least it works for some cases and cases which are probably less severe -and this latter point is one that professionals seem to agree with.

So, I think that it is more correct and certainly more tactful to approach Anxiety Disorders and what effectively cures them, with the understanding in mind that there are different levels of anxiety and that different therapies, therefore, can effectively work.

Of course, if what you say about MR Hexi's therapy is true (and I say if because I cannot know given my understanding and experience) then, it would be superior ...but not superior in the sense that it would in all cases make other less sophisticated kinds of therapy -including CBT- not work for some people. ...For example, I searched, found and adopted Mindfulness as a therapy because my own experience told me that CBT was not working. Yet, when I presented this opinion in a thread here at the forum (and perhaps the way that I presented my opinion), others reacted back, and I think they were right for doing so. The simple fact that some people do find CBT effective and others don't suggests just that -and it suggests that while I required a less simple solution, that for others this same simple solution worked well enough.

So, your Mr Hexi's therapy may be superior. And other kinds of therapies may not be effective enough in the long term -but different levels of anxiety disorders exist and therefore not all of these may need more than CBT or even Mindfulness. -some will, however.

Well, I hope you respect that we need to give it a go -that whatever form of therapy that we are using, we need to try first to see for ourselves and that this experience is everything. -If we do not trust our own experience first and foremost then we run the risk of not trying something when we should have. So, keeping an open mind to new ways is important, but so is truly trying some thing to see if it could work; just as not trying and not committing effort would be a mistake.

I keep what you are saying in mind, but I cannot allow my self to believe that Mindfulness and mindfulrecovery will not work for me. I must try things for my self and can only truly trust my own experience. I need to give what does seem to be working for me a genuine shot. No point in prematurely giving-up on something that could work for me. All I can go on at this stage of my experience is what I know so far -and this is that what I am doing is helping.

One last thing, though, I am looking at your "Morita Therapy" and it does seem interesting and likely valuable -particularly given that it was invented specifically for alleviating neurotic anxiety.
I am greatful to you for recommending this kind of therapy.
...and who knows- perhaps in reading it I may discover that more than what I am doing is necessary or desirable for me. ...We shall see!!!
 

Jacky1980

Well-known member
To Marykate:
My conclusion is absolutely not from my own experience, I know I should not categorically rule something out because impossible in nothing, even whole brain transplant is possible in the future, however if we go in the wrong direction, is there any possibility that we can reach our target? When I fully recovered, I realized that all the western therapies have gone in the wrong direction, I will prove it by starting a new thread.


To Phoenix1:
Q:"But I'm curious as to how would you go about accepting something that other people dont
like?The need to be loved and accepted by others drives an incredible need to want to change who you in an effort to fit in better. "
A: Thank you for the good question, I would like to give you an answer based on my article:Yes,you are right, we need to be loved and welcomed by others. No one likes to seem stupid before other people, i am not an exception. do you remember the "excitement point" I have mentioned in my 1st thread, please review it carefully. Back in earlier times, we are as normal as any other, u know, almost every person in this world tends to feel nervous before opposite sex, before stranger, before authority or before a group of people when making public speech. When they, those normal people, felt nervous or tense, they neglected it, they didn't care about it, then did not make any efforts to repel it, get rid of it, they take the nervousness as a normal part of themselves. But we were so sensitive, we thought we must not behave like that, we took the situation more severe than the fact itself because of our sensitive and weak personality.We try to get rid of it, try to repel the once very mild nervousness because we didn't think it was a normal part of ourselves. by doing so, we supply nutrition, supply fuel to this nervousness, we ourselves make it become a very inveterate and powerful “excitement point",the more veterate and powerful this excitement point becomes, the more tense and nervous we will become, the more severe symptom (like facial twitch and heartbeat) we will show before other people, the more desired we want to get rid of or repel our nervousness, the more powerful and inveterate it will become. So you see, it is a vicious circle with no way out ahead. Who is the creator of this vicious circle, we ourselves. Where is the escape, turn back. What does "turn back" mean here, accept it. The oriental therapy such as buddism,morita therapy and Heixi Therapy just teaches us how to accept, how to turn back. Just like Buddhism has told us:"there is no destination in the ocean of tribulation unless you turn back." Let me put it another way to make it as simple as possible, there is a small fire, if we don't do anything to it, it will go out naturally, but we want to put it out as quickly as possible,so we pour gasoline onto it, and then it becomes more brighter, then we continue to pour gasoline onto it, at last, it becomes an uncontrollable fire, we ourselves are the creators of such severe fire.What is the solution now, stop pouring gasoline,since it is already uncontrollable, so evev if we stop pouring gasoline, it will still burn brightly for a long time, but it will sooner or later go out itself.


Q:"If you can have others laugh at you and not care, then yeah you have confidence and low anxiety. But how do you learn to not care when you are so sensitive and have been raised to believe that you have to be perfect in any situation? How do you accept and numb yourself to the point where you can override 15+ years of parenting that makes you think you have to be perfect or you are a complete failure in life?"
A:Actually it is impossible for me not to care about other ones' laughter at the very beginning of Heixi Therapy, namely at the very beginning of acceptance,just like what I have mentioned above in that figure of speech, the fire is very bright, even if i stop pouring gasoline onto it, it will burn for a long time. This is the shortcoming of all oriental therapies like Buddhism and Morita Therapy, it goes in the right direction, but the process is too long for the sufferer to persevere,the western therapy can remove the symptom temporarily in a short time, but since the direction of all the western therapies is wrong( i will prove this by starting a new thread soon),so it will never reach the target, the removed symptom will come back again in the future, A psychological major in this forum has told me that research shows that even those who have claimed they have fully recovered will fall back into the abyss of SP a few years later. However,Heixi Therapy is not a pure oriental therapy, if you read my replies carefully enough, it has included some useful parts or western therapy including CBT and Exposure Therapy to shorten the process quite a lot because the westen therapy is quite useful in quick symptom-removing, but the core of Heixi therapy is the essence of Buddhism thus with the combination of the merits of east and west, it can make you fully recover with a relatively short time. Therefore, I completely recovered after one and a half year after I start with Heixi Therapy, freed myself from the mental suffering. Because I suffered from multiple disorder such as SP, OCD and depression, so the time is relatively long. For those who suffer only from SP, I think half a year is enough. If you need to know more about this therapy and need some personal advice based on your own situation, please talk to me through MSN: [email protected]

To littlemissmuffet:
Hi, miss, I have received you message stating that you have found Morita Therapy very useful, I am so encouraged and glad to hear that. Morita Therapy originates from oriental Buddhism and is the 2nd development stage of treatment of neurosis, it is also a main part of Heixi therapy,however heixi therapy goes further than Morita therapy in the understanding of the essence of Buddhism, let me put it another way, if you were in a swamp of SP, Heixi Therapy can completely pull you out of it while Morita can put almost your whole body out of the swamp with your lower legs still inside, I don't know if there is any Morita Therapist in your country, if you practise yourself, I don't know whether you will fully understand it because it is a sort of oriental wisdom. If you need some advice based on you personal situation, please add my MSN: [email protected]


All in all, I don't know whether I can make myself fully understood through my replies, so more questions and criticisms are welcomed
 

phoenix1

Well-known member
Jacky1980,

I actually agree with most of the ideas. The idea that we cause our own anxiety and SP because we fight it and repel it. The simpler way to say it would be that anxiety is created to change something about yourself. But when the anxiety is what we are trying to change (like being shy, symptoms of anxiety) then we create more anxiety in an effort to change anxiety. Which actually adds more anxiety, which makes us dislike it more and then we try to fight it or change it, which only creates more anxiety. It is a vicious escalation.

I also agree that acceptance of symptoms is key to pulling back those layers. That's seems to be the easy part though.

We can pull back the symptom layers with understanding fairly easy. But trying to accept what created the anxiety to begin with is extremely hard. Many of us are sensitive and perfectionistic, so its extremely difficult to actually accept that we dont need to worry so much or that we dont need to try to change and be like everyone else (the expectations and sensitivies that created the first basic anxiety).

From my experience with dealing with acceptance in myself and others, its not too hard to lower the symptoms by submitting and accepting them. But there is still that original core layer that starts all the anxieties that is extremely difficult to accept. That intense need to want to fit in...to be perfect...mixed with sensitivity. I can tell myself that I can accept that I am shy or that I might act weird when nervous and that will pull back the high-end symptoms. But I cannot tell myself to accept imperfection or failure...which is the core of what drives my anxiety to begin with (not a symptom of anxiety).

Any tips on how to break down that core? or am I missing something?
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Pheonix,

I wanted to try to understand your meaning...

What I think you are saying is that it is easier to accept rationally that being sensitive is acceptable, but emotionally it is much more difficult to do. And emotions make up what we call "belief".
So that, when it really comes to the crunch, deep-seated beliefs (or lack or belief) mean we give-out to the thoughts we do not want and furthermore, the thoughts we know are not important or real.

And I think that the more highly sensitive or sensitised that we are, the more different we feel from others, and therefore the greater the gap to transcend between our sensitive self and the rest of the world.

The only effective solution to this that I have come across is -again!!-dare I say it!... Mindfulness.
I think that Mindfulness helps when there is a good part of our beliefs/thinking that is unconscious. When there still exists that part of ourselves that will not be tamed by reason or our own will.
Mindfulness is actually for the purpose of creating conscious awareness. And it is this and only this -conscious awareness- that gives everything.
You could also look at such a thing, Mindfulness and the greater consicous awareness that it creates, as being the necessary emotional stamina and tolerance that underlies true and lasting self-belief. ...We need to be able to face any and every doubt in an unflinching and unconditionally forgiving way if we are able to truly effect a lasing change within ourselves -if we are truly to acquire the "Third Opinion" that characterises people who have undergone true and lasting personal transformation.

...Without this 'unconditional forgiveness and acceptance' it is impossible to create -because we could not have begun to have created- a new sense of bundaries for self-definition; or, in other words, to gain a sense of who we are and where we fit in, we must begin from BELIEVING in no division between ourselves and all others. Just as God's love is unconditional, we require this same emotional acceptance in order to have God's truly objective and rational perception of everything. Just as in philosophy the understanding is that consiousness is "dialectic", and we cannot separate the object we are conscious of from our own consciouness viewing it (or subject and object).

Well, I will leave it there, because it is about all that I have managed to grasp about such ideas. And like I said, I am not knowledgeable about how Mindfulness works -and for that matter, how the mind actually works- but -hey!- I do know that it is working for me so far; and I know from my reading that it creates conscious awareness and brings us to be at this centre of our experience called 'the Third Opinion' or 'the Impartial Observer'.
 

Hurricane

Well-known member
Hi Jacky, what you tell me makes alot of sence. But I'm like always a bit skeptical. It's not the first time someone comes in here and starts telling about some great therapy that fully cured him, and later on it seemed just out of profit, trying to sell his own " miracle cure".

Can you clearly state this: "I have nothing to sell."

Is it ok that I add you on msn one of these days?
 

phoenix1

Well-known member
Hi Missmuffet,

Right, I believe so. I'm not quite sure if its even possible to accept ourselves to the point of 'normal' when we are born sensitive and 'not normal'. The theory is there, but in order to accept that far in we need to change who are as a person in essense I believe. I think you are right. Rationally we can actually do alot to be more reasonable to accept the top layers that fuel so much anxiety. Deep down emotionally when we are left with the core of who we are - it becomes virtually impossible? Some of us are born more reactive to say the least and raised to high expectations. I would have to let go of everything I am and everything I was raised to believe in order to break down that core and accept everything that causes all the anxiety.

The thing with that is, I cant even logically tell myself that if I let go and accept myself, I would be better off. My mind knows I would no longer care about what others think, so that woudl mean I would make more mistakes, I would be disliked by many people and so on and so on. On the surface, that might seem okay. But the anxiety makes me reactive and careful so its less likely that people will hate me or think ill of me. Deep down inside me when it matters, I want so bad to not be hated..to want to been seen in a good light, that I will continue to fuel anxiety unless I change who I am and can honestly tell myself that I no longer care what people think. That I wont feel pain when someone dislikes me for something I said or did.

I do like mindfulness as well. As I said in the other post though, I think it is a symptom blocker in that it will help minimize the symptoms but not do a lot to stop what was causing the symptoms in the first place. Not too different from medication in a way. I like it though because there are so many things that we just cant change about ourselves completely. Mindfulness is a great technique to help lower the pain and anxiety of pretty much everythign if done right. Its simple and easy for anyone too.

I think, though, that there is still so much we can do to realistically pull our anxiety down from the front end. Such as acceptance, expectation lowering and proper ways to deal with emotions and anxiety. Things will still filter through and mindfulness could mop up and tone everything down. If anyone used all those kind of techniques (including mindfulness), they could significantly lower their anxiety.
 

marykate

Member
I am 100% sure that his therapy cost a lot of money.I just dont know how is he planning to do this, when he and this therapy center is in China!

And if he is asking all the money in advance, cause i have heard that this is new trick then people use, be aware!! Senting money to someone like that can only lead to disaster!
 

Jacky1980

Well-known member
To Phoenix:
hi, friend. I don't think you really understand what "acceptance" mean here. it seems that you are TRYING to accept, you think you can only accept something easy, but cannot accept something difficult,right? but I can tell you, acceptance is unconditional, you don't need to try to accept your shyness, your sensitivity, your perfectionism or something you think is your symptom, something you think is not your symptom but the core of your symptom. All of these, is an unremovable part of yourself. Let me give you an example, if I suddenly lost my legs and become a gimp, although I don't want to be a gimp, but it is impossible for me to grow new legs. What else could I do except for accept the fact that I am a gimp now? One more example, if you like winter and hate summer, when summer comes, you complain,why it is so hot, why summer cannot leave me, you don't accept the fact the it is already summer, but will it work? However hard you complain, summer is still there. what you can only do is to accept the fact that it is summer now
 

phoenix1

Well-known member
Hi Jacky1980,

I know exactly what you mean and I do think there are varying degrees of acceptance. Your example of the gimp is flawed. Anyone who loses a leg is easily able to accept that they wont grow a new one. Why do you think that is? Simply because they eventually know for certain that it is unchangeable. Unchangeable is the key word. Summer is just as unchangeable too and likewise extremely easy to accept.

Mental and physical traits are not black and white though in a normal human and even worse in someone who is born sensitive. They are an 'unremovable part of ourselves' but they are not necessarily unchangeable. Like shyness for example. I cant remove it, but I can do things to change it. Until I can see it as an unchangeable, I could never accept it. And the reason I cant tell myself its unchangeable is because of my sensitivity, perfectionism and high expectations.

An unremovable part of yourself doesnt determine acceptance. There are alot of things that are unremovable that I can still change and that are anxiety provoking. Another example is If someone was bald and it was causing them anxiety. Its an unremovable part of them, but its not unchangeable. You could get a hair transplant, take some pills, buy a toupee and so on and so on. Until you can convince yourself that its unchangeable or no longer worth changing, you will still have anxiety about it.

And by that logic, I cant accept certain core traits like perfectionism, shyness, sensitivity and the need to fit it. They might be an unremovable parts of myself, but they are not unchangeable in my mind because there is still alot I can do to change it. They will continue to cause anxiety until I can tell myself they are unchangeable, which is extremely difficult for my type of personality and high expectations.

So you can see what I mean about varying degrees of acceptance? I think acceptance is unconditional with everything that is unchangeable - losing a leg, summertime. But everything else is not so black and white when you talk about your physical and mental traits. There is alot that you believe is still changeable in your mind that you cant accept until you realize you cant change it anymore.
 
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