Complete Recovery from SP-Heixi Therapy (1)

[Jacky1980]

the critical factor in the recovery of Social Phobia
All could never be eliminated.
Social phobia has the following symptoms: nervous , glance, shyness, blush face, bad expression, panic of space, stutter etc, compulsion, anxiety, insomnia, doubt, eating difficulty , all these symptoms……could not be eliminated, when you start to understand these and learn to adapt yourself to them, live with them, accept them from the bottom of your heart, and never try to repel them, it will fade away gradually. Now let me detail the reason.
In Buddhism there is a maxim: Trouble is Yourself i. Taoism also makes a metaphor : a jar of pure water ,It looks perfect, but virtually it is poisonous water , the shrimp and fish can not survive in it, it is just dead water. Now, you can throw a handful of earth and mud into the water. Superficially it’s dirty and no longer perfect, and also it looks bad, but there is nutrition from then on, it can breed shrimp and fish! It becomes vital water full of life. So , imperfection is the real perfection.
And all the symptoms of the neurosis are almost the same! Nervousness , glance, shyness, flush, uncomfortable expressions, space panic, stutter ect, compulsion, anxiety, panic, insomnia, doubt, eating disorder, concept and behavior, all of the symptoms……these are just like earth, mud, which make our water dirty and imperfect. Actually the core of them are normal, but they are distorted and strengthened by our continuous push and repel. Just because they normal mood , they are part of ourselves. So they could not be removed essentially. Without them, we would be really abnormal. Those normal persons are always the dirty water full of vitality, who have all these symptoms, but they never care about them, naturally they have never strengthen or enhance them.
But we are not like those “careless” persons, we are so sensitive about them. Can you remember when you came up with these symptoms for the first time? They were rational to appear at that time actually, and most normal persons would come up with these symptoms as well, but they would forget them quickly because either their life is so busy or their character is so broad-minded. But we act in different way , maybe as we are too sensitive, and our self distrust and perfectionism mislead us . we are too careful, the environment we are living with render us such a over-sensitive personality. We care about them seriously, and we do think these ideas or reactions are abnormal, we want to get rid of them which are actually normal. Of course we can not get rid of them, we cannot defeat the normal part of ourselves. This is the essence of all the mental conflict: we want to defeat the normal part of ourselves, we want to escape from ourselves. After long-time repelling, concentrating, fighting with those normal mood or, to be more accurate, ourselves. We are getting more and more sensitive about these, and we are more preoccupied by those normal mood which has already been distorted by us. Therefore, they will gradually form a distorted and obstinate “excitement point” in our mind and occupy the our whole mental world.
Several years later, the normal person who once came across the same feelings as we has already forgotten the “bad experience”, the “excitement point” has been transferred to some healthy things such as job and life. But we, during these years, has formed a distorted and inveterate “excitement point” which is similar to cigaretholic and drugholic., who formed this “excitement point”, we ourselves! We repel it, so we strengthen it! The more we repel it, the more we strengthen it! We focus all our attention on it, these attention are nutrition to this “excitement point”, which makes it so powerful and beyond our control.
If we hadn’t supply nutrition to this “excitement point” through our efforts and attention for so many years, such excitement point would have already disappeared. So it’s we ourselves who lead to the formation and enhancement of this excitement point, and once the excitement point is strengthened ,they will affect our physiology, they will affect our behavior and action, then we will be more and more nervous, more and more panic beyond our control , and on the other side, the more nervous we are, the harder we will press and repel our normal mood, so the more attention and nutrition would be given to that excitement point, the more powerful and uncontrollable it will be .Therefore, with this vicious circulation, we will fall deeper and deeper into the abyss of Phobias. I call it Amplifier Principle. That is to say, the essence of these symptoms is normal, but we amplify them by using the amplifier, they may seem abnormally big, but they are essentially the same as normal mood, Buddhism call this phenomenon:” real dream”
So, you can see, we are wrong at the very beginning . It is said by Laozi (Taoism) : the farther you go, the less you know.( means: the more efforts you make to approach your target, the farther you are away from it ) we can explain this phenomenon by using this theory. Originally, all the things are normal . When we want to remove what is originally normal., we supply energy to it, we shift our attention to it, we concentrate to it, we provide nutrition to it, all of these make the normal thing bigger and bigger , more and more powerful and abnormal finally. As the old saying goes ”we are worrying about what we don’t need to.” Another philosophy remark also tells us: problem lies in the solution.( originally it’s not a problem, but you want to do something to it in order to solve it, then it becomes a problem.) so we can say that all of the neurosis are existing because of “treatment”. In the first place, it is not a neurosis at all, when we want to “treat” it, we ourselves make it evolve into neurosis..
Then all is clear. The so called symptoms are normal! So we should understand after so many years: all these can not be removed, give up all the efforts to treat it. No way is workable, do not repel it anymore. It is just your repelling that maintains these symptoms. So please try to understand it and apply yourself to it and accept them from the bottom of your heart, do not repel it anymore, then after some time , it will disappear. When you can understand these fully, your neurosis is recovered to some extent.
Actually all is normal, and there is no need to eliminate the normal things! Actually we have been thinking to get rid of it which leads to the maintenance of these symptoms! I think, this is the reason why great Mr. Morita (father of Morita Therapy) told us” let it be, do what you need to do”.
If you want to talk to me, my msn is [email protected],hope my advice can be helpful

 

[Jacky1980]

I once suffered from OCD, Socail Phobia and Depression and now have completely recovered!
Wish everyone couls share my experience and re-enjoy the fresh breeze!
Posted above is my experience in dealing with Socal Phobia, it can make completely recover from it, hope all of you can learn something from this article. Any question is welcomed, I wish I can help

 

[charlieHungerford]

Personally I totally disagree with what you write, but if it worked for you then that is fantastic.

You mention we should stop fighting the symptoms and accept them, but that is just not right in my opinion. We suffer anxiety to protect ourselves from being hurt. If someone has been hurt in a social situation then next time they are faced with a similar situation then they are going to feel panic and anxiety, the mind's way of protecting yourself from getting hurt, a warning to say AVOID THIS SITUATION YOU ARE IN DANGER OF GETTING HURT. Yes the symptoms are very real and rational like you say, but the answer is not to do nothing, the answer is to get your head around the situation and understand the reality. i.e. if someone has been hurt by negative comments, ridicule, being laughed at when at the centre of attention before, the person depending on how they took that negative feedback is likely to be afraid of being centre of attention and fearful of getting hurt and humiliated again. Hence anxiety to warn of the danger of being hurt. But the way to overcome this is to look at the situation differently - i.e. the person looks at the situation as dangerous and may get hurt, which is fair enough given the past experience, that is rational and real, but its exaggerated, its biased to the extreme negative, its wrong to believe that all people are like those people who may have ridiculed or laughed at someone. At the end of the day, there is a % of people on this earth who will ridicule you, there are a % of people on this earth who are insensitive, shallow, horrible, etc - and you need to start working on changing your beliefs about the situation being so negative and terrible and bad, to a fair and realistic way of thinking.

I personally do not see how you can overcome SA by accepting the anxiety and go about living through experiences which you have extremely negative beliefs and fears of. You do not have to think of these situations and things as being so negative, you can change them and this is what I have been doing and made amazing progress.

Maybe we all suffer different because I know if I did nothing and stopped trying to sort out my problems, I know I will get nowhere.

 

[Amiyumi]

Jacky, I'm sorry if I misunderstand what your saying here, I'm having a hard time thinking clearly right now. But first, congratulations on finding something that has worked for you.

Charlie, I think what he means is that if you focus on your anxitey, on the fact that you have a problem, then your over stimulated mind will continue to hold you in that state of fear. Yes, these feelings/symptoms exist for a reason, but, they shouldn't be forceably applied by your subconsious to every similar situation in your life. Like making friends, dating etc. By accepting your fears, your symptoms, rather than trying to control them, get on with your normal life, eventually they will deminish. Like try not to see blushing, being nervous as being a bad thing, it's a natural thing, part of who you are just now.. like they're only a big deal in your life because you let them. I read a book on it once, but it never really worked for me. But lots of books have similar theorys. Some like keeping your self/your mind busy, and you learn to relax around social settings through having your thoughts being kept at bay..?

I'm really not sure...

 

[charlieHungerford]

Well that just doesn't make sense Amiyumi, the anxiety we feel is automatic and subconscious and is based on beliefs that we are in danger of going to be hurt in some way, you cannot just switch it off, its your subconscious mind's way of protecting you from danger of situations you may get hurt in. If your mind did not recognise danger of being hurt, then you won't feel anxious.

You can accept your fears and symptoms, but it won't stop you from being anxious as hell and having panic attacks because the fears your mind has are still there, still untreated. I went some 10 years accepting I would be anxious and just tried to deal with things best I can and I didn't ever improve.

This method is just the same basis as feel the fear and do it anyway, something that in my opinion is only applicable to those with very minor anxiety where you can cope and perform.

If this works for people then that is fantastic, we all suffer differently and I am not going to say this is any more right or wrong than my beliefs on how to overcome SA, but in my opinion it doesn't deal with the core roots of the problems behind why you are anxious - you are anxious for a reason, not because its a coincidence that you are anxious just in a certain situation. The reasons why you are fearful and worried can be put right, its so easy to get into exaggerated, negative biased thinking patterns, and they need putting right so the mind recognises that you are not in danger of getting hurt. Then the anxiety will go. But this method jacky is talking about is just accepting you are anxious and get on with it, this is not a solution to overcoming SA.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Re: the critical factor in the recovery of Social Phobia

So we should understand after so many years: all these can not be removed, give up all the efforts to treat it. No way is workable, do not repel it anymore.

This is just totally wrong and a clear non understanding of SA!
3 years ago I had to have a drink before I went to work and leave the house, I could not use the phone, I could not speak to people face to face, I was in a terrible way. I have worked on my SA for 3 years by myself and I have almost overcome SA now, by working so hard on this and understanding it and correcting the problems. I have not used medication or therapy, just understanding and changing beliefs. People who know me are amazed at how much I have changed!

So don't tell people to give up all efforts to treat it, and no way is workable. This is just so wrong that it annoys me.

 

[Amiyumi]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as ignorant, I was just trying to make a guess at what he was saying. It's hard to follow for me right now, the way it's phrased. I really didn't mean to sound offensive, and my sa isn't minor either. I know saying do nothing is not an answer for this. Like I said, I've read books on that theory (I've read alot trying to find something that works), and accepting things didn't work for me either. I'm starting to think my original guess of what he meant was wrong..

And I know anxitey isn't something we just can't switch off, I'd be cured if that were the case. I agree that you can change your patterns of behaviour, and "re-write" the deeply ingrained thinking patterns, that get in the way of your life. I know where all my fears have come from, the roots of my problems and I'm trying to work on them myself.

But the feel the fear and do it anyway, it does work. When you let anxitey stop you everytime you want to do something, such as avoiding going out (like I do) then you enforce your fears. I always feel better for going through with things (but seeing as my situation is diffrent, what I do..). SA dosen't have to be minor for that, it helps with severe to, and helps prevent minor from becoming severe. If I went out during the first two months before being fully housebound, it would never have gotten this bad.

I guess I got the wrong idea of this post from the begining, and sorry I tried to explain what he meant, when not being sure myself. I get what's wrong with it now.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as ignorant, I was just trying to make a guess at what he was saying. It's hard to follow for me right now, the way it's phrased. I really didn't mean to sound offensive, and my sa isn't minor either. I know saying do nothing is not an answer for this. Like I said, I've read books on that theory (I've read alot trying to find something that works), and accepting things didn't work for me either. I'm starting to think my original guess of what he meant was wrong..

And I know anxitey isn't something we just can't switch off, I'd be cured if that were the case. I agree that you can change your patterns of behaviour, and "re-write" the deeply ingrained thinking patterns, that get in the way of your life. I know where all my fears have come from, the roots of my problems and I'm trying to work on them myself.

But the feel the fear and do it anyway, it does work. When you let anxitey stop you everytime you want to do something, such as avoiding going out (like I do) then you enforce your fears. I always feel better for going through with things (but seeing as my situation is diffrent, what I do..). SA dosen't have to be minor for that, it helps with severe to, and helps prevent minor from becoming severe. If I went out during the first two months before being fully housebound, it would never have gotten this bad.

I guess I got the wrong idea of this post from the begining, and sorry I tried to explain what he meant, when not being sure myself. I get what's wrong with it now.

Please don't aplogise, you did absolutely nothing wrong. Everyone is also entitled to their opinion and I know you were just writing about what the original poster wrote.

I am sorry if I have come across too strong, I know the original poster was only trying to be helpful, I didn't mean to sound strong in response.

 

[rado31]

I just think that both methods can be correct. It is also mentioned here and it is called Mindfulness Cbt , i would really like to get involved in such thing.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi everyone,

Please skim through or even ignore the following: I AM BABBLING SO MUCH, IN A DESPARATE EFFORT TO PUT ALL OF IT TOGETHER! So apologies to everyone who finds this post a bit dotty and scatterbrained...!!!

What I get from Jacky's post is a very simple and well integrated view. I've understood that in accepting our faults and limitations, that by doing so we transform them and through limitations achieve a sense of limitlessness. And Jacky is pointing out that for the most part, as sufferers of Social Phobia, we do not believe this. Instead we are stuck within a mind and experience that tells us that our limitations, our weaknesses are 'flawed' and we try to conquer and hide this part of ourselves.

The new perception that psychiatrists insist we develop is the same as what Jacky suggests. I can tell that she has 'gotten the message' by the words she uses -particularly when she says that Imperfection is Perfection. THis, to me, is clearly someone who has 'found God' and sees with a fresh new percpetion that takes a disease and is able to cure it.
Notice that she sees imperfection as perfection -she does not try to cure imperfection -she does not try to 'cure' it as most of us are still trying to, which is that we still are unable to accept it and integrate it into the rest of us.

She says "we are wrong at the very beginning" -well, our belief that we need to repress our shyness, has caused this shyness to magnify. The more we try to conquer and get rid of this part of ourselves, the more it grows and a conflict between two parts of ourselves is set up -our sensitive side and our judgement of this side.

This is also why we find it difficult to accept our shyness -because it has grown our of proportion so much. Yet her view of the whole of us being acceptable is correct, because it puts everything into perspective and makes something big into something small.

Ok: I wish I could understand and explain things better!

As for the ideas the Charlie Hungerford brought-up... I agree with Rado in a sense because ideally if we were able to accept Jacky's perception we would be cured. However, this takes what is called 'faith' and sometimes we are too stuck in the conflicting emotions of 'the vicious circle' that it is hard(er) to bring two opposite sides of ourself together. To do this would be to see a new perception that made no distinction between our shy part and our judgemental part -and this inner reality would be mirrored on the outside -ie: we would see those who judge us being part of us, because they are our judgemental side. And when we 'make the two into one' we get left our bias, our "imperfection" -this thing that we dread and label 'evil'.

...And through labelling it 'evil' we don't accept it. When we see it in others we feel angry, hurt and ashamed because we have not accepted it within ourselves yet, we cannot accept it in others -and this 'imperfect' part is the part that gives life its 'unfair' quality. Yet, if we could accept this 'unfairness', we would accept our own imperfection and would be granting ourselves our own opinion and view-point. As it is, we can't accept our own yet and can't accept a different, opposite point of view yet.

I think that whilst we are thinking, that doing this is impossible -because this part that we need to accept in order to see a new perception (with which to get an effective sense of who we are and order for our world) because we cannot make what is unconcious concious until and unless we accept that in a sense we cannot. Such a thing is impossible.

This acceptance of our limitations eg: I cannot know what I do not know- accepts that the unknown, the unconcious exists. But whilst we think we can know the unknown, or that we can control the uncontrollable, we are left with little to know control at all.

This means that we cannot do this 'through our mind' -becuase the mind is only aware of what it already knows -it thinks how it thinks. THe question is: How can you know what you do not know?

Buddhists use meditation as a means of seeking to drop the mind (and the body) in order to become the spirit for a while. This 'spirit' is stepping out of conciousness and into the unconcious and it is the 'unknown' -they do this to give a person the experience of knowing that the unknown exists and that despite that it is 'nothing' just as to us it is 'unconcious' -it nonetheless exists just as we find that we are not our bodies and not our minds -we are "the supreme spirit soul".

This "spirit" -in Christianity, it is the Holy Spirit- is this elusive THird Opinion. It is also God's opinion, which is the perception that sees two opposite and otherwise conflicting sides as equal -they both exist simultaneously; and it is likewise "the view from above". At once it sees beyond our own limited human perspective at the same time that it is uniquely able to include such a biased and limited perspctive. Being able to accept this 'two opposites both exist', to remain confident within this spirit-ual no separation of two sides is to be able to accept our own point of view our own innate human bias, weakness and imperfection.

Whilst we cannot believe in and accept in our limitations as existing within an overall perfection as part of a whole and perfect being -we can't accept a point of view that contradicts our own. Because to us this opposite point of view is a death to our own point of view. Without accepting our bias, without granting reality to our limitation (shyness etc), we are unable to accept the opposite of this in other people -because we reject their 'bias' as we reject our 'own'. -It is "unnaceptable", "inferior" etc.

OK: I'll stop now and get to the point!!!!
I have the general idea that we cannot believe in our 'imperfection' as being perfect and therefore change our perception, because this is impossible to do through the mind.
Even if the process could be conceptualised -the conclusion woudl still be the same: that it simply cannot be done through the mind. THe mind is only concious of what it is concious of. And our emotions register an opposite point of view as the death of our own point of view.

The only way to see through this false death (that keeps us the living dead) is to experience it through a "peak experience" which can either occur spontaneously just like that, or through meditation by which such an experience is sought.

To sum it up then :wink: !! :roll: :roll: :? :lol: .... this new perception that Jacky speaks of is either easy or difficult depending on whether the 'vicious circle' has happened in such a way that you are able to see 'the circle' -and to put two opposites together, to see God who is at once both the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning as well as the End.

Just as with meditation -meditation is simply 'being still', but when we are anxious and stuck in internal conflict- the 'vicious circle'- 'being still' is elusive (unless you have the very good fortune of having what is described as a 'moment of clarity' or 'moment of individuation', what Jesus calls 'the Apocalypse' when a person finds the End of themselves to see that it is also 'the Beginning' and faces death to see that life does go on). So some technique, some way into the stillness may be necessary.

Similar to this, ideally it would be great to 'face our fear' and to simply get on with the business of life and not focus and dwell on our faults, making them bigger and maintaining our fears. However, it is only as simple as that if it is as simple as that. Being that it all depends on 'how complete the circle' has become for someone -truths change and only when a truth has undergone a true change is a person really able to believe in it.
Until then, some guidance, some 'method' to become still and to approach this believing in a new perception.
This is why meditation methods have been invented -because all meditation truly is is being still. But sometimes we need a method in order to do this. Provided this method aids stillness, and does not stir things up more, than it is a good method.

So, Jacky's method is ideal. But other ways may be needed in order to approach such a simple and complete picture. And so long as these methods have some balance of stillness and analytical thinking, my guess is that they would work. But thinking without coming from stillness first -I don't think that it could work.

If you check-out the thread Mindfulness Based Anxiety Reduction, the author has worked-out a method that invovles a combination of analytical contemplation and concentration on the problem with a change to being still and dropping thinking. ...I think this works on the basis that problems are adressed and looked into, but stillness and acceptance are introduced to them as well.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hey Rado,

You mentioned an interest in MCBT.

The thing with MCBT, is that (from what I've understood) it is quite new. My psychiatrist has not heard of it. It seems that only since scientists have been able to prove (through new technology) the changes in the brain induced by meditation that they have been taking a serious look at the benefits of it. Only this decade have top brain scientists and psychiatrists met with the Delai Lama to discuss how Mindfulness (meditation) can be used in Western psychotherapy.

So Mindfulness based therapies are relatively new in the West (eventhough they have been around for centuries in the East!) ...that's the typical scientific way of not trusting spirituality, only believing what they see!

So, by all means hunt around for a therapist that is familiar with Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioural Therapy -but in the meantime there is already a site up specifically on using Mindfulness for treating Anxiety problems. (There are a couple of Mindfulness based thereapies -MBSR, MCBT and now MBAR and more even -I'm not sure what MCBT is used for specifically, it may be depression, or it may be just a general therapy-?)

I've put a link up to this site in the "Mindfulness Based Anxiety Reduction" thread. But here it is again: http://www.mindfulrecovery.com
IT is definetly worth a look.
Not only has the author of the site himself recovered specifically from Social Anxiety, but he has made all the material on how to follow in his footsteps freely available to everybody -ie: you won't have to pay him for the therapy (and there is even the option to personally email him).
He says himself, that because he is not a 'trained professional' -nevermind that he has personally conquered anxiety!- that his self-help form of therapy is not a substitute for the professional kind.

-But, what the hell! It's for free; it's by a guy who got over anxiety and Social Anxiety at that; and if you take a little time to read through it you'll find that all the steps are very clearly set out and that the whole thing is quite short and easy to read.

He is using a combination of Mindfulness meditation, thar drops concious thinking and moves a person into acceptance and stillness, with Analytical meditation wherein a person invokes the images and feelings that go with their specific feared situations. And he alternates between these two devices in order to bring new associations of calm to our feared situations and as a way of bringing an acceptance and to the conflicting emotions that anxiety involve, integrating together our shy, sensitive responses with our judgements and aversion towards this.

...in other words, it is similar to Mindfulness CBT I think, in that it involves thinking and not thinking, or analysing and dropping thoughts. -And I think that you are correct in you observation that "both methods can be right" ...this guy who made www.mindfulrecover.com seems to confirm your point of view!

Well, I don't understand quite how it works. But it does seem to be a potentially powerful way of taming anxiety and bringing order back to what he calls our "dis-ordered anxiety".

I like this site VERY much. He has made it all easy for us. ...I think you asked me for a reference, for a particular book or method to follow regarding Mindfulness meditation. -Well, this guy has already figured out how to apply the tool of Mindfulness specifically to anxiety.

All that is left now is to carefully read and follow his freely available program!!!

 

[phoenix1]

I agree that If you could perfectly accept everything about yourself and the world around you, you would not have anxiety. You would also never change, adapt or be able to do much because everything is as it should be in your mind - but you would still be anxiety free.

The word 'accept' is not really clearly defined and I think that might be causing some confusion. You cannot accept something bad about yourself and still view it as bad or evil. Like you cannot say that you accept that you are ugly or stupid. That means that you still view it as something 'wrong' and still in need of change or hiding - which actually creates the anxiety.

Anxiety creates a need to want to change something. Yet all of us are victims of trying to change something that just cant really be changed and we keep trying and trying with more and more anxiety and it never works because we really cant change it.

When you realize that you can no longer change or hide something, you can start to accept it as simply a part of yourself- not bad nor good really, just a part of who you are and at that point you do feel less anxiety about it. I think the hardest part of acceptance, is convincing yourself that you can no longer change or hide or avoid it - we then lose all the control over it and we have to 'let go' of a part of something we hold dear. But if we do that, we do end up 'accepting' which takes the anxiety away for that specific thing.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Pheonix,

I agree with much of your post. And you're right about being specific and careful with what is meant by words like 'acceptance'. Changing perception involves subtle thinking -so you're right in being careful about the words used.

I don't follow your first paragraph though. Perhaps you mean something different to what I've understood.

I don't see that acceptance of everything the way it is would mean we could not adapt to change,-in fact, I see this continuos process of opening up towards the world as being how we get through anxieties and adapt to our changing life.
I understand that we have anxiety because we are unable to adapt succesfully to change; because how we see the world and ourselves in it no longer accomodates for the new world.

You wrote something very interesting to me in your last paragraph. YOu said that you think that the hardest part is convincing ourselves that something about us cannot be changed. -this sounds very accurate to me. And I think it goes together with what you say about 'evil' being what we refuse to accept; so that when we see completely that something "evil" cannot be changed, we can only see it as basically good in and of it self. (Just as 'good' is what exists and 'bad' is what doesn't exist.)

And I like what you said about giving-up a part of what we hold dear. -Maybe we have a fear of losing what we hold dear and trouble seeing and believing that it still remains but in a different way. -like believing that there is 'light and the end of the dark tunnel' and seeing our"bad" parts as having good to them.

 

[phoenix1]

Hi littlemissmuffet,

I think that’s a great question posed. What I meant to say was if you could accept everything about yourself and the world around you, including everything you cant change as well as everything you can change, then you really wouldn’t feel to need to change or adapt or do anything really because you would see everything as completely unchangeable. You wouldn’t feel the slightest bit of anxiety either – which isn’t good either.

However, that’s not the purpose of acceptance to accept things you really can change. Its purpose is to accept that which you can’t change. If you could accept everything in your life that you honestly can’t change, internally and externally, then yes, it would mean you would still feel anxiety in order to grow and adapt and change to the things you can change around you. The anxiety wouldn’t be painfully prolonged (the bad anxiety) and it would be just be normal short term anxiety needed to get the change or task completed.

You said “anxiety is there because we cannot successfully change.” I think that is a great point and a great distinction that should be made. Prolonged anxiety which is the painful anxiety that most of us here experience because we are dealing with something that we cant successfully change that we think we need to change. Anxiety itself isn’t suppose to be like that. Its suppose to come when change is needed in some manner – its suppose to initiate that change and then be done. Prolonged anxiety is the ‘stuck anxiety’ that keeps trying and trying to change something but just cant do it. Such as SA.

That’s why I think acceptance is such a big part of helping SA or any anxiety. The proper kind of acceptance – not the kind of acceptance that says that we try to believe (accept) ourselves as stupid, or painfully shy, or socially worthless. That just fuels the pain needed to create more anxiety in order to change it. Which is actually the opposite of proper acceptance.

 

[Jacky1980]

Hello, everybody, sorry for late reply. I said I welcomed any question, because I can make myself fully understood in replying to your questions. So, thank you all very much. charlieHungerford,Amiyumi,rado31,LittleMissMuffet,phantom and phoenix1.

First, I would like to give a brief introduction of myself. I am from China and I am 26 years old now. As I mentioned before, I once suffered from OCD, Social Phobia and Depression for almost 8 years. what was worse, I used to think I am the ugliest and the least socially valuable in the world. I dared not go out, not to mention find a good job and pursue my dream. I dared not see their eyes when I talked to people, even a small conversation was a big project to me. I dared not make even a small tongue slip during the talk, worrying that I might be thought of as a stupid guy if I did. Every time after I talked with people, I would spend all day reproducing the whole process in my mind, afraid of having said something wrong. Sometimes I would look at my face in the mirror for half a day, thinking that I am the ugliest in the world......you can see that at that time I could be described by one phrase "walking corpse". I tried every therapy available, Cognitive Therapy, Behavior Therapy, Morita Therapy, Hypnogenesis etc. including all the Therapies from western countries and eastern countries, I failed, sometimes I could make some progress, sometimes I would fall deeper, and the root has never been removed or eliminated. When I calmed down, I could still clearly feel that I was the ugliest guy in the world, I still dared not face people confidently, I still felt I have no future, I guessed that suicide may be the only way out for me until I met a therapist. What interested me is that he has the similar experience with me. He also suffered from severe SA, OCD, and other mental disorders and he suffered much longer than I, over 13 years, He also has visited all the counseling centers throughout China, going through all the therapies whether western or eastern., as a result, he saw no evidence of recovery. Then he began to study Buddhism, as he said, he despaired of recovering at that time, so turned to Buddhism just for peace, but miraculously, after 1 or 2 years, he got completely recovered, without any trace of his past. After he recoved, he generalized a comprehensive therapy system which can completely cure all the nerosis such SA, OCD and Depression from his own suffering and recovering experience,this therapy system is not any theory you can learn from any text book, it is really the result of long-time practice. The core of this therapy system is Oriental Philosophy (Buddhism and Taoism) which is less familiar to the people from western countries, besides that, he also included some western therapies such as Cognitive Therapy, Behavior Therapy, Desensitization Therapy and so on in order to quickly remove the symptoms, however these western therapies can only remove the symptoms, never touching the essence of the problem (means these methods can only make us feel confident or recovered superficially not essentially, the core of our mind is still low self-esteem), so if we want to eliminate the roots of Social Phobia and other neurosis, if we want to become essentially confident and brave, the oriental philosophy is a must. After his 13 years' practice, finally he decided that Oriental Therapy is the only way out for us neurosis sufferers.

However, at first, I really did not believe I was able to truly recover from the verge of suicide.but I was touched by Mr. Heixi's confidence, so I just had one more try. I listened to his speech carefully every time, practise according to his requirements every time, gave him feedback whenever necessary......therefore, after over one year, I saw the miracle myself, I completely recovered myself. When I look back, the 8 years' suffering is like a nightmare to me, I woke up from the nightmare and the sun was still shining upon me. All in all, it feels good to be confident from the bottom of your heart, not just on your face.

After I recoved, I became the student of Mr. Heixi and help him spread this valuable therapy to the whole world because I know so many people are still in the purgatory, they still could not see the sunlight.They are still lost in the dark forest, trying find a way out and they don't know what they are doing is wrong or right. I decide to become the therapist of Heixi Therapy ( in fact, Mr. Heixi never name this Therapy as Heixi Therapy because he thinks he is not the inventor of this therapy, he is just a beneficiary of Oriental Philosophy ) to help more people.

Now, you can see, I am not the author of this post, the author is Mr. Heixi. I am just a translator of it. I think my English is OK because I was an English major at my university.

Well, now, let me deal with the replies.

charlieHungerford:
Thank you for your doubt and critism. I received your messege of apology. There is really no need to say sorry, I didn't feel annoyed at all. I see that you are also a long-time sufferer. I used to suffer almost the same with you, so I know what you are feeling now. I carefully translated your post for Mr. Heixi, and he also wanted to give you some advice.What you are practising now is actullay Cognitive Therapy, means we try to correct our exaggerated cognition. This therapy is helpful to some extent, but you will never completely recover only through this method, Mr. Heixi and I have both tried before. If you are really a severe social phobia sufferer, I guess you can still feel inconfident,feel timid or insecure FROM THE BOTTOM OF YOUR HEART. The experience of getting hurt is inhibited in your heart, never removed or dissovled.It is like a bomb, and will haunt you any time without any omen. What you should do now? It is difficult for me to tell you in one or two sentences. If you are interested, we can talk through MSN, we are both long-time sufferers, I really hope my advice can be helpful. I also don't mind if you want to argue with me through MSN. I am sure this article is very difficult to understand,especially for the readers from wester countries, but trust me it is a real cure. When I first read such articles, I also got confused, I thought " NO, it will not work on me." So, I turned to Mr. Heixi for help, during the process of therapy, I gradually know the meaning of this article. and I didn't completely understand this article until I fully recoved. You say we suffer differently, you are wrong! we all suffer the same, maybe our symtoms are different, but our essence is the same. It is low self-esteem or self-denial.I dare say you are a very excellent man, but you got lost in the forest of SA, once you go through it, you will be able to exert your capability as I am doing now.

Now, I am engaged by some other business. But I will read every post carefully and give you my sincere answer. ( to be continued )

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Jacky1980,

I was wondering about what sort of Buddhist philosophy/technique you use(d) in your therapy. I've been getting involved in Mindfulness (meditation) and this is being used more in the West as well. Now they are starting to use MCBT (Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), instead of only CBT.
And Mindfulness-based therapies are starting to really catch on with Wetern therapists.

Some of these also agree that CBT can be ineffective, especially, some say, for more intense levels of anxiety, and that CBT can actually increase 'ruminating' (which is a word they use to describe preoccupied overthinking, I believe); and some believe that either CBT or Mindfulness can work. And I've seen a combination of these two used, as with MCBT.

P.S. Your English is quite good, I think.

 

[Jacky1980]

Hi,LittleMissMuffet.
I have carefully read your post about MCBT, and I also looked it up in our Chinese webpages.
It seems many honorable psychologists are exploring in this area. I really appreciated them

for their contribution. However, If I am allowed to tell the truth, I think such therapy

could never cure SA.Maybe it can make you relax for a short time, but when you come back to

the society. come back to the communication with people, I bet your will find your low self

-esteem or self-denial has never been eliminated or dissolved. you don't need to believe

what I said, you can try it yourself. Practice is the only way to test the theory.

Then I would like to give you some personal suggestion:
1.self-help is not feasible especially for severe sufferers, please turn to a professional

and experienced therapist(the first class therapist) for help around you. I don't mean it is

impossible for you to overcome SA through self-help, Mr. Heixi is the one who has made it.

However, there are too few people have such luck to do so. Even if you were the lucky

person, maybe the time is a problem you cannot avoid. Mr. Heixi spent almost 13 years to

overcome the SA,OCD and Depression. Before I met Mr. Heixi, I have already struggled for 8

years,trying all kinds of therapies, without Mr. Heixi, maybe I would not overcome my

nerosis (not only SA)even if I was given another 8 years. If you are 20 years old now, if

you spend 10 years (at least 10 years) in struggling with SA and finally recover, you are 30

years old then. Your gold time has all been wasted. Why so long? because if you struggle

with SA yourself, you are actually an explorer, you don't know which way is effective and

necessary, which way is a sheer waste of time and energy, you should try yourself, then so

much priceless time is wasted. Let me make an example, we sufferers are like those who are

lost in a dark primitive forest, it is very difficult for us to go out ourselves, we need a

experienced guide to lead us.

2.Western people are really unlucky. I think western countries like USA and Western Europe

have very advanced scientific technology,but in the treatment of SA and all the other

neurosis, they really get lost. I think I am lucky to be born in China, otherwise I would be

in the purgotary maybe for the rest of my life. As Mr. Heixi said, Western therapists have

entered a blind alley.For example, if our destination is the in the west, we should go

westward to approach our target, if we go eastward,we will never reach our target. (please

don't say the earth is round, it is just an example, hehe). What the western psychologists

and therapists are doing now is like this. They go eastward, but their target is in the

west.So the starting direction is wrong.LittleMissMuffet, you ask me what sort of Buddhist

philosophy/technique we use in our therapy, actually my post has told you all. If you need

further explanation, the essence of Buddhism and other philosophy is difficult to explain in

one or two sentence.Talk me on MSN:[email protected]. I wish I could provide some

advice, you can also tell me your detailed situation. and also I will post more articles of

Mr. Heixi in this forum.I believe this therapy must be suitalbe for all the people in the

world, we are already the largest counseling center in China because we have the real cure,

now I would like all friends on the earth to know it, it is a real treasure.


3. I would like raise two examples(especially for charlieHungerford), please judge which is

the real confidence.
1)"I don't feel panic, because I think these people will not laugh at me"
2)"I don't feel panic, however they laugh at me, I don't care"

Obviously, the 2nd sentence stands for the real confidence, charlieHungerford, you are the

1st one, and I am the 2nd one, hope all of you can taste the difference.

 

[Marvolo]

Well, Jacky, it's quite wise text, but I'm afraid if such thinking could help in the anxiety feeling in real; but if it helps you, I'm happy of it.
Cheers

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Jacky,

There are a few things I wish to say.

One is that, I wish that you would give some explanation and description of what Mr Hexi's treatment involves. It is difficult for me to make any kind of comparison and gain any sense of how different and how, according to you, it is superior to other treatments.
And I'm sure that everyone else here would benefit from getting some idea of what such treatment is like. ...because I didn't really see from your email how it explained everything, as you said.

It is true that professional therapy would be good. My psychiatrist isn't familiar with using Mindfulness to treat anxiety and I think that I will ask to see a professional who is rather than essentially waste my time wiith a treatment that I don't believe in -ie CBT.

MCBT isn't strictly the form of self-help therapy that I am using. I am following the following method from www.mindfulrecovery.com. It is mindfulness based anxiety reduction therapy, according to the creator of this site, a Cesar Bujosa. He himself has recovered from Social Anxiety.

So far, I cannot give a guarantee that such therapy will work, being that I haven't fully recovered as yet. However, through using his method of mindfulness practise combined with alternating to experiencing the anxious feelings (sometimes through visualising and imagininng oneself in an anxiety provoking situation) ...well, this is reminiscent of a natural process of adjusting to strong feelings that I vaguely remember doing just through life, for one thing. Secondly, the Mindfulness part is all about "Radical Acceptance" and this already seems to assimilate what are otherwise painful and difficult to bear emotions. And, thirdly, while I can't say great things at this stage, the Mindfulness method of dealing with anxious thoughts and feelings is having a positive effect on me -which is why I am pursuing this method. Also, the simple idea behind it of Radically Accepting ones' feelings with the absence of any judgement or attempt to control, just appealed to me from the beginning -it seems certainly at least to be of major basic importance.

Now, I wish that you would give examples of what Mr Hexi's therapy entails -some taste to whet our appetites with. And also, in doing so, provide us with a real sense of how uniquely beneficial Mr Hexi's therapy is. I say this only because I haven't been able to see how Mr Hexi's therapy could be superior to other therapies I've so far come across. And it is not possible to make any real assessment of what works without having an example of what Mr Hexi's therapy consists of. (I know that in your first email that you gave a basic introduction to it -the perception with which to look at our anxiety- but, the steps to being able to think in such a way, you haven't given examples of.
I hope you see that I am only stating what is true: that I have no comparison by which to decide to choose your therapy or mine.

Perhaps you could give a link to MR Hexi's therapy, then I could read about it and get an idea.

 

[Jacky1980]

Hi, LittleMissMuffet
The essence of Heixi Therapy really lies in my first post, I know it is difficult for western world to understand it because of the cultural difference, even I myself didn't completely catch the essence of it until I completely recovered, so I am trying to make myself understood as much as possible to make you realize the revolutionary value of this therapy, I hope we can communicate more.
First, I will post an article I have recently translated, the general introduction of Mr Heixi and his therapy as well as Heixi counseling center.

Introduction of me myself
I suffered from Social Phobia, OCD, PTSD and Depression since my childhood. The life Is a mess and I see no light when looking ahead to my future. I tried tons of tablets and all the advanced therapies including Cognitive Therapy and Hypnogenesis, but I saw no evidence of recovery. I was in despair at that time, no friends, no good job, no lover……all in all, I was in the bottom of life and society. However, one day, I chanced to see the article posted by Mr. Heixi in some forum, so I contacted him and talked to him. From the conversation, I knew he once had the similar experience as I, the difference is that he got completely recovered. To me, he was a honest and humorous man. So I chose him as my therapist, but at first I don’t believe I can really recover at all because I was on the edge of suicide and trusted that nobody could save me, nobody could drive away those weird and pessimistic ideas in my mind, nobody can help me to re-enjoy the life. The reason I chose him is because his counseling mode is interesting me “Once paid, there is no time limitation. You can call him any time for any questions and problems you have encountered related to your suffering”, So I thought: “ well, even if I cannot recover, but it is good to call someone anytime and bomb him with all the weird and pessimistic problems which I dare not disclose to my few common friends even my parents. But Mr. Heixi told me “you don’t need to believe, you just do as I told you and give me feedback anytime, I will lead you to your destination”. After over one year, I completely recovered, without any trace of my past. I, from the bottom of my heart, feel that the breeze is so soft, and the life is so beautiful. Is it a miracle? No, because I witness with my own eyes the whole process. During the treatment, I practiced according to his instruction and gave him feedback from time to time. He corrected my mistake whenever I met him or called him and made sure I don’t stray. The whole process is like that he is a sailor and I am the boat. He can see the destination clearly and know how to get to it, but I ,the boat, don’t know the way, what’s more, I will be made stray even retreat by winds, tides and all the other factors( recurring is the feature of all the neurosis )Without the sailor, even if I by myself advanced a little, I would at last retreat to the starting point and even worse, stray to nowhere. When I got to the destination , the sailor’s mission was over. After I got completely recovered, I believed that Mr. Heixi ‘s Therapy System ( he calls it “Systematical Human Reformation Project, what a cool name! ) is the only way (it is not a single method, but a systematical combination of all the therapy including western and oriental ) to free those tortured souls who are still trapped in the purgatory completely. By “completely” I mean once you recovered, you never need any psychological therapist in the rest of your life, because you already know the essence of all the mental disorder and know how to deal with them easily yourself. It is not like temporary comfort after going through a counseling session, it is a complete human reformation. Mental disorder can never be exterminated in one or two counseling session, so in order to guarantee every client can get complete recovery, Mr. Heixi applies a particular counseling mode ( you can see the detailed information in the following paragraphs).
I know In this world there are thousands and millions of people who are still haunted by all sorts of sufferings as I was and don’t to how to escape, I feel it is my duty to bring the people all over the world a guiding beacon. So now I work as Mr. Heixi’s assistant, wishing to help as many people as I can in the rest of my life.


Introduction of Heixi:
Mr. Heixi is now one of the most fruitful psychological therapist in China. He once suffered from social phobia, OCD and depression since his childhood. In order to recover from all the sufferings, he had not only visited almost all the famous psychological organizations and clinics for more than 10 years but also chose Psychology and Clinical Medicine as his major in university. But after trying almost all the therapies (including Western Therapy: Cognitive Therapy, Behavior Therapy, Psychoanalysis, hypnogenesis and so on, as well as Oriental Therapy: Morita Therapy from Japan) and all the drugs, He still got no recovery.Then, he studied Buddhism and Taoism ( the treasures of Oriental Chinese lore ), meanwhile analyzed the merits and demerits of all the Therapies he has tried, finally he successful got recovered completely from his 13 year long nightmare and concluded from his practice a therapy system which can help all the suffers of neurosis. In 2003, he established Heixi (shanghai) Psychology Consultation Center, wishing to save all the tortured souls in the world in the rest of his life.


Mr. Heixi’s Emancipation Declaration
To those who suffer from “social phobia”, “obsessive compulsive disorder” etc, these so called mental conditions or mental phenomena are not illness, it’s like something we know as a stubborn bad habit going extreme. Mr Hexi has got such conclusion after ten years’ successful practice. He doesn’t think these symptoms are “neuropathy” or “mental illness” but “bad habits” ”bad ways of thinking” like the formation of smoking, drinking! All you have to do is to get rid of it! You are always normal. Don’t bear the burden of being crazy, for you consider “normal” as “abnormal”. As an ancient Chinese poem says: “You cannot get the true colour of the mountain, because you are just in the mountain itself”. Gandhi, Beethoven, van gogh, lots of great politicians, artists have once suffered from some kind of psychological problem. From that point of view all human civilization is out of neurotic. In fact, there’s no definite line between “neurotic person” and “normal person”. In Freud’s words that is: the whole human history is a neurotic history. Please don’t think that I am bluffing, please throw away the title of “sufferer” at once. You are only tortured by some bad habits, bad ways of thinking. If you once correct those bad habits, you can re-enjoy the life freely. You will find in fact you are better than many people in many ways. The prerequisite is sufficient time and correct therapy, otherwise you will fall deeper into the trap you have digged for yourself.

A Brief Introduction to Heixi(Shanghai) Psychology Consultation Center

Heixi’ Consultation, officially registered, ratified by Business Administration of Shanghai, is founded by Mr. Zheng(Mr. Heixi ) who is a professional tutor of psychology and an expert on neurotic treatment.


Our Mission
Save Souls in Purgatory!


Our Long-range Plan
Try our best in the following ten years, together with all the people who believe in us, to improve quality of psychal health of human beings, first Chinese, then people all over the world.
Since opening, Mr. Heixi and his students have helped enormous people out of neural perplexity symptoms. Those people are from different parts of China. Now our friends from abroad are consulting Mr. Heixi through internet or on a phone.
A major distinction of Mr. Heixi’s therapy is the experience that he himself suffered from a psychal perplexity for more than 10 years, but finally completely recovered from it. The therapies he concluded in the 10 years have been proved very effective by tested and examined on himself and people who consulted him. The most effective method is the usage of oriental philosophy.

My oriental philosophy Therapy
Many people want me to talk about my therapy. The essence of my oriental therapy is “counter-therapy” or “reverse therapy”. To most of my clients, I would apply customized NLP , Subconsiousness Theory , plus Intensified Contact Training (seemingly like traditional “desensitization therapy”, but actually not the same), Cognitive Therapy, Morita Therapy and Buddhism or Taoism. If everything is OK, to be honest, the curative effect is amazing!
To many sufferers, "Morita treatment" is not very effective, because its natural tendency is very slow. So to many people it has little efficacy. But Heixi's treatment has been proved again and again, the curative effect is amazing even miraculous.
Counter-therapy is the result of the combination of Buddhism and my own treatment experience. Its root is Oriental Philosophy. Old Chinese philosophy "Yijing" (Book of Changes) believes that the whole world (including all the things in this world) can be divided into two contradictory parts, like sun and moon, day and night, man and women, life and death……, “Taoism” believes that “if you want to get to your destination, you should countermarch”, for example, if you want to make money(get), you should invest first (pay). The whole world has been applying so many methods and tons of drugs to deal with all kinds of phobia, OCD, anxiety disorder, depression and so on. The methods include Cognitive Therapy, Behavior Therapy, Psychoanalysis, hypnogenesis and so on. Every method has its merit and do help a lot of people to alleviated their symptoms, but ask those people and even yourselves: have you really completely recovered? I mean “completely”, means you will never fall back into your nightmare once again and enjoy the life as freely as possible. If these methods can really help people to completely free from all the neurosis, why many people are still tortured by SA,why over 100 millions people are trapped in the nightmare of depression and some of them choose suicide as the solution? Why many people cannot jump out of the cycle of OCD? Where is the problem? Oriental Taoism has the answer.
There is a maxim in “Dao De Jing”( book of morality): “the more efforts you make to approach your destination, the farther away you are from it”, why? Because we are going the wrong direction.
But the methods mentioned above is still very useful in removing the symptoms, for example, in social phobia treatment, behavior therapy will help the sufferer to remove the symptoms, but if we want to completely recover from it, oriental philosophy such as Buddhism and Taoism is a must.
Because “Counter Therapy" originates from dialectic oriental philosophy, it can be applied in many fields, such as “anxiety before important examination or interview”, “social phobia”, “anxiety disorder” “insomnia” “OCD” “Psychogenic Depression”. The fact shows that once it is used correctly and timely, the effect is miraculous.
Sometimes, even I myself will marvel at it.
I will detail some therapy practice in my other articles, but different people have different condition and should be treated accordingly. I often adjust my measure according to the feedback from my clients to make them recover as soon as possible.

I don't know whether it can give you a general impression of Heixi Therapy, hope to get reply from you.