Community

[Opaline]

Do you think the Western world would be better off if we were a more communal society and less of an individualistic one?

It makes sense to me that more communal societies would have higher overall levels of happiness. I don't have a source citing that is the case, but I've heard it more than once (not sure if it's actually true or not).

It might very well be true, though, that America and Britain's culture of individuality is what allowed these countries to become so great, due to the strong beliefs in individual power and motivation that led to great inventions and systems we use today.

On the other hand, though, America is one of the richest countries in the world, and yet we have atrociously high rates of depression, suicide, and high prison population. These things are influenced by more than one factor, of course, but I can't help but think that our individualistic society naturally leads to a lot of loneliness, a sense of inferiority, depression, suicide, and more conflict. Looking out for number one doesn't exactly seem warm, friendly, and social.

Thoughts?

 

[BlackPuma]

I do think there's truth to it. Compare it to how you feel in a massive 20.000+ crowd versus being in a 6 member group (whom you know well). It stand to reason you'd feel more connected, involved and safe in the small group.

I wonder how well the above translates when concerning a few thousand more or less in a city/town's population. I suppose it also depends on the town and the kind of people it hosts, but I do generally get the sense that people are happier in smaller communities.

It looks like I'm going to find out sooner or later, since it has become pretty much impossible to get a decent house/flat for a reasonable price in denser towns/cities here.

 

[jaim38]

Having a communal society doesn't necessarily mean things will be better for us. People who don't fit in with the community in whatever way (i.e. those with mental health problems, autism, etc) will probably be shunned and cast away. Japan is a highly communal society and they have a saying that goes like this: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." They value teamwork over individual success.

Western society is not without faults. Capitalism coupled with individualism created the huge gap between the rich and poor that we have today. But what I like about western society is more freedom to do what you want to do without caring much about what others think. If I dress as a hippie and go live in the mountains, people couldn't care less whereas in communal societies, people will try to persuade you not to do it. I think there's more freedom to be who you want to be.

I don't know if I'm making any sense here.

 

[vj288]

Communal societies have problems just as individualistic ones do. Even here in the US, while as a whole we are more individualistic there are sections that focus more on community: Small towns, churches, tight knight families. What do you think of when you think of these things? What I think is the cliches - Gossip, a strong resistance to change or anything different and putting on a facade to fit in with the community. If you are part of something like that, usually there is a set of ideals or standards that the society accepts. Small religious town? Best not be gay. A sense of community is great, like many feel from places like this site for example, but being forced into it and having no alternative isn't so wonderful. It has many downsides, most of which I haven't addressed properly.

Now reading back up what I think you're talking about more is the idea of a collectivist society, like in many Asian countries, where it's about "we" and not "me." There's interesting studies about how we differ, and how even their language and how they talk emphases how the people identify themselves as part of the society and not as individuals who just happen to be in the society. To that I'd recommend reading Anthem by Ayn Rand. Our identities are important I think, Just being part of the masses makes one feel insignificant and unimportant, and very not special and completely insignificant.

China, Japan, and South Korea are all collectivist societies and have suicide rates in the top ten, significantly higher than the US and other western countries. Personally I don't see the collectivist model being any better than the individualistic one.

 

[Kiwong]

One element I like of society, is the option to opt out of it and live an independant and individualistic lifestyle. I am fortunate that I am rich enough to be able on occassion to walk away from society and be on my own. If I lived in a communal society and wasn't able to do that, it would be a nightmare. I could not cope in places like India or Japan where people are in your face all the time, and there is limited privacy. Regardless of the society I despair when I am around people. Being able to enjoy solitude through my independant lifestyle is what keeps me from being suicidal.

Some people I know have decided to live in community titles in bushland areas. These communities are often full of politics and bickering. I would much prefer to own my own place in the wilderness free of the bickering a rules of others.

 

[ImNotMyIllness]

I don't know of any communal societies that look appealing. I like in the U.S, I can have a lot of alone time. If I want to be part of a group, I can, if I don't, I can do that too. I'm in charge.

Tightly knit societies, having someone up my a** all the time, doesn't appeal to me.

 

[ImNotMyIllness]

I don't know of any communal societies that look appealing. I like in the U.S, I can have a lot of alone time. If I want to be part of a group, I can, if I don't, I can do that too. I'm in charge.

Tightly knit societies, having someone up my a** all the time, doesn't appeal to me.

Not to offend anyone but I could never do stuff like this. See pic (not saying this is typical life for all Indians)

 

[ImNotMyIllness]

Small towns, like in the U.S where everyone knows everyone=NO THANKS! Mind your business Vern. LOL

 

[BlackPuma]

Not to offend anyone but I could never do stuff like this. See pic (not saying this is typical life for all Indians)

That's kinda cool in a way. I have great admiration for minimalistic and improvised lifestyles where people make the most of what they have. Though, I'd NEVER be the one to hang at the front of a train regardless of how slow it goes. I don't trust my grip that well. Side or back for me, thank you very much.

My guess is that when you grow up in dense cultures such as that you don't particularly notice it as much as others would. It'd be second nature to just hop on a train like that I would imagine.

 

[Opaline]

I do think there's truth to it. Compare it to how you feel in a massive 20.000+ crowd versus being in a 6 member group (whom you know well). It stand to reason you'd feel more connected, involved and safe in the small group.

I wonder how well the above translates when concerning a few thousand more or less in a city/town's population. I suppose it also depends on the town and the kind of people it hosts, but I do generally get the sense that people are happier in smaller communities.

It looks like I'm going to find out sooner or later, since it has become pretty much impossible to get a decent house/flat for a reasonable price in denser towns/cities here.

I tend to agree with this.

I do see how it could be annoying or even distressing to constantly have people around you, but I do think overall it's a better way to live. I'm only basing that on theory, though, because I've never experienced a very communal culture for myself.

 

[Opaline]

Small towns, like in the U.S where everyone knows everyone=NO THANKS! Mind your business Vern. LOL

Hehe. It's a good point you make.

Read some of the classic stories that take place in early New England towns, like The Scarlet Letter. Those show the ugly side of everyone being in everyone else's business in the name of community.

 

[hidwell]

One element I like of society, is the option to opt out of it and live an independant and individualistic lifestyle. I am fortunate that I am rich enough to be able on occassion to walk away from society and be on my own. If I lived in a communal society and wasn't able to do that, it would be a nightmare. I could not cope in places like India or Japan where people are in your face all the time, and there is limited privacy. Regardless of the society I despair when I am around people. Being able to enjoy solitude through my independant lifestyle is what keeps me from being suicidal.

Some people I know have decided to live in community titles in bushland areas. These communities are often full of politics and bickering. I would much prefer to own my own place in the wilderness free of the bickering a rules of others.

I agree with you 100%.

people = stress
stress = depression etc.

 

[ImNotMyIllness]

I guess a question to ask yourself whether you would fare well in a communal society or not is understanding your irritability level. I can get easily irritated and annoyed with people! Just think of your home situation X 10. People can be such morons or too nosey. And, if you wanted some alone time, they would all think that was strange, which would make you feel strange. Great for social butterflies, could work if you're a caterpillar. I feel like a freak'n MOTH. But, I'm a bit anti-social. Some people just haven't bloomed yet, you might be one of those.

Piece of dropped rotten fruit is waving up to you. Bloom little flower, bloom.

 

[Lea]

3rd world countries function differently.. it seems to me that nobody protects you, but nobody inhibits you in doing anything either, as someone once pointed out. When you run across an X-lane busy street with streams of cars and motorcycles, nobody slows down or stops to let people cross, so they have to be careful and avoid the streaming vehicles while making it to the other end. But it´s not illegal for people to cross like this, it´s a custom and everyone does it. In my country I was once caught by a policeman when crossing a road of several lanes with no crossing. And there is a great difference in services especially. While in our countries we have to search hard for someone to repair our shoes or for a public transport (which is somewhere so scarce or almost nonexistent, because they count on everyone having a car), in these countries they are not only rude or aloof to customers (in fact that´s something they cannot eve imagine), but they chase them and almost beg on their knees, haha. If your shoe breaks, there surely is someone near to get it repaired, if you need transport, you get riksha or a motocar (no need to wait hours for buses or pay for an expensive taxi), if you´re hungry there are children or people on the bus selling snacks, everything caters for poor and ordinary people too, not only for people who can afford it or who have time to look for places where it is done. Just my thoughts, maybe not exactly on the topic, and sorry for my english..

 

[Nanita]

I want to live in a tribe. Like the native americans.
I can´t stand living the city life where neighbours are strangers.