Are you an incessant rule-follower?

[Anubis]

Just wondering, because it's a trait I've had since I was a kid. Whenever an external force that I perceive as a "higher authority" gives me a rule, I feel like I'm completely obligated to follow it. I feel anxious if I don't.

Like when I was young, I used to drive with my dad a lot. He only had 1 rule and that was no turning on the radio - even if it meant a lot of dead silence. Now that I'm 23, I've instilled the same rule when driving with my sisters. I absolutely CANNOT have the radio on when I'm driving with them. I just feel guilty if I do. I can listen to it by myself, but not with them. (The funny thing is that my sisters experienced the same rule with my dad, but they have no qualms about turning on the radio when they're driving - and coincidentally, they're total extroverts).

So it got me to thinking. Maybe this "incessant rule-following" is a common trait for us social phobes. That is, whenever we're any situation, we feel obligated to absorb as much external rules as possible, and then follow them. And we digest rules indiscriminately EVEN if the external force that legislates the so-called rule is suspect. We still follow it because back in our minds, "that's how the real world works" and there's no going around it. Because again, we're rule followers!

Maybe this why we feel so restricted when in social conversations? Because perhaps sometime in our childhood, we digested a ton of negative rules of expressing ourselves in public. And consequently, we're now afraid of breaking those very rules of social interaction that we've developed throughout our childhood. This fear of breaking the rules then causes us to be literally paralyzed during conversation.

I'm still brainstorming this, but it just feels so true, at least for me.

 

[Ashiene]

i think its a desperate need to fit into society because we've been shunned by it due to our social anxiety.

 

[Perfidion]

No. If I don't want to do something, I won't. I don't throw tantrums or become disruptive or belligerent, I'll just quietly refuse to do it. I can be incredibly stubborn. Occasionally, at work, we'll have team-building exercises. They're basically a condescending attempt by upper management to get us to be more productive by instilling some sort of emotional investment in the company, even though everyone knows giant corporates have about as much genuine empathy for their employees as Hitler had for the Jews. I view it as an insult to my intelligence and a needless waste of both time and resources, and I refuse to participate. This is naturally frowned upon, but because I'm not contractually bound to take part in what is basically a kindergarten class for grown adults, I can get away with being uncooperative. And my boss knows that if she forced me to participate, I'd sit there smirking and making sarcastic comments about the whole exercise, which would prove somewhat counter-productive.

It amazes me that so many people believe they "have" to do things. Most of the time, you really don't. You have a choice. You can say no.

 

[Anubis]

No. If I don't want to do something, I won't. I don't throw tantrums or become disruptive or belligerent, I'll just quietly refuse to do it. I can be incredibly stubborn. Occasionally, at work, we'll have team-building exercises. They're basically a condescending attempt by upper management to get us to be more productive by instilling some sort of emotional investment in the company, even though everyone knows giant corporates have about as much genuine empathy for their employees as Hitler had for the Jews. I view it as an insult to my intelligence and a needless waste of both time and resources, and I refuse to participate. This is naturally frowned upon, but because I'm not contractually bound to take part in what is basically a kindergarten class for grown adults, I can get away with being uncooperative. And my boss knows that if she forced me to participate, I'd sit there smirking and making sarcastic comments about the whole exercise, which would prove somewhat counter-productive.

It amazes me that so many people believe they "have" to do things. Most of the time, you really don't. You have a choice. You can say no.

Just curious, do you believe that you have any social phobic tendencies?

Because when I ask the question "Are you an incessant rule-follower", I don't necessarily mean you have to be an absolutist at following rules. I just mean, do you generally feel overwhelmed by an overarching super-structure of rules that you feel you MUST obey during your social interactions. And if so, is this complimented with a history of being quite the "rule-follower" as a child? (and being a rule-follower doesn't necessarily have to mean that you were a "goody good" either)

If not, it's alright. I'm kinda still developing the "theory". I just find it perplexing that children from the same parents can have radically different perspectives on rule-following.

 

[dottie]

Just curious, do you believe that you have any social phobic tendencies?

Because when I ask the question "Are you an incessant rule-follower", I don't necessarily mean you have to be an absolutist at following rules. I just mean, do you generally feel overwhelmed by an overarching super-structure of rules that you feel you MUST obey during your social interactions. And if so, is this complimented with a history of being quite the "rule-follower" as a child? (and being a rule-follower doesn't necessarily have to mean that you were a "goody good" either)

If not, it's alright. I'm kinda still developing the "theory". I just find it perplexing that children from the same parents can have radically different perspectives on rule-following.

as soon as i read that post, especially the part about smirking and making sarcastic comments through the whole meeting, i immediately questioned the same. smirking and making sarcastic comments at a meeting would bring attention to yourself, something people with social anxiety would avoid.

i am a strict rule follower; moreso if others are involved.

 

[Reiji Moritsugu]

do you generally feel overwhelmed by an overarching super-structure of rules that you feel you MUST obey during your social interactions.

THIS.

It happens to me all the time, thinking there is some kind of structure that I don´t know how to follow, but if I knew how to, things would become a lot easier. As Ashiene said earlier, it probably is because of how desperately we want to fit into society. Although it seems society keeps on shunning many of us no matter how many times, or through how many different ways we try.

I hope there´s an answer to why this happens. See you around

 

[teandtoast]

I probably used to be quite a rule follower or whatever when was younger but as got more SA problems started becoming more of a shit and not giving a toss and as such not so much of a rule follower.
Like perfidion actually things like work is where it comes out where meetings and stuff Im expected to go to Ill just say no and avoid just cause those sort of thing are worst for my anxiety/shyness etc

 

[Anubis]

I probably used to be quite a rule follower or whatever when was younger but as got more SA problems started becoming more of a shit and not giving a toss and as such not so much of a rule follower.
Like perfidion actually things like work is where it comes out where meetings and stuff Im expected to go to Ill just say no and avoid just cause those sort of thing are worst for my anxiety/shyness etc

This is actually interesting. It seems some of you do initially "bump" into a set of rules to follow in a situation (through experience), but after perceiving that you are inadequately following the rules for a set period of time, you refuse to partake in the event altogether. In this case, not being able to follow the rules causes you to appear unworthy to do the action that "requires" them. I can definitely relate to a lot of this.

Perhaps this is related to locus of control? (that SickJoke brought up a month ago).

To reiterate:
- High internal locus of control people believe that events result primarily from their own behavior and actions.
- High external locus of control people believe that powerful others, fate, or chance primarily determine events.

It seems like 'high external locus of control' people would be the rule-followers in our example, because they feel obligated to follow the rules of external sources. This is not to say that you must never follow the rules of external sources, but maybe there's a perfect blend to be had here (and social phobes are too far on the external side).

 

[no1]

I am a rule follower for many things but for others not.

I have this one rule that is to not invade a persons personal space because i'm such a ****ing pest...

 

[Perfidion]

as soon as i read that post, especially the part about smirking and making sarcastic comments through the whole meeting, i immediately questioned the same. smirking and making sarcastic comments at a meeting would bring attention to yourself, something people with social anxiety would avoid.

We're not going to play the "you don't have SA because you don't subscribe to my definition of what constitutes SA" game again, are we? Because that would be horribly boring.

For the most part, I like to blend into the background. I don't enjoy being the centre of attention. I don't enjoy feeling that everyone is staring at me. However, if I feel passionately that something is insulting, stupid, a waste of time, or otherwise generally worthless, I'm compelled to say something. Usually derogatory, occasionally offensive. That's just me. That's how I'm wired.

Because of these "episodes" I do end up occasionally being the centre of attention. And people do occasionally sit there, staring at me. This continues to make me very uncomfortable, but my irritation, frustration and/or anger have a habit of over-riding my self-consciousness. It's as though my SA is diminished in the presence of any sort of intense emotional response. I have no idea why, or how, but that's just the way it is for me.

If this doesn't gel with your text-book diagnosis, then there's not a whole lot I can do about that, is there?

 

[dottie]

We're not going to play the "you don't have SA because you don't subscribe to my definition of what constitutes SA" game again, are we? Because that would be horribly boring.

For the most part, I like to blend into the background. I don't enjoy being the centre of attention. I don't enjoy feeling that everyone is staring at me. However, if I feel passionately that something is insulting, stupid, a waste of time, or otherwise generally worthless, I'm compelled to say something. Usually derogatory, occasionally offensive. That's just me. That's how I'm wired.

Because of these "episodes" I do end up occasionally being the centre of attention. And people do occasionally sit there, staring at me. This continues to make me very uncomfortable, but my irritation, frustration and/or anger have a habit of over-riding my self-consciousness. It's as though my SA is diminished in the presence of any sort of intense emotional response. I have no idea why, or how, but that's just the way it is for me.

If this doesn't gel with your text-book diagnosis, then there's not a whole lot I can do about that, is there?

thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense now. sometimes my emotions (only rage, really) put my SA on the backburner. i have to seriously be pissed. and then i'm embarrassed after my little episode.