Are "male losers" doomed forever?

[Megaten]

I've never heard of those definitions of a mature or immature man before. To be honest, I don't think any man has the confidence that he can do just about anything he has to do. The only thing I can think of that could be considered emotionally mature is the acceptance that you are not perfect but still finding a way to make it through life. You say you're good at much but from way write seem to me an articulate and deep thinker. Which is something.

 

[theslowesthand]

I think the term "male loser" would apply primarily to said person's mindset, which is negative, irrational, gloomy, hopeless, etc.
So, my answer to the question "are male losers doomed forever" would be YES, but only while their mental outlook stays the same .. otherwise the answer would be NO.

 

[theslowesthand]

I've never heard the term "positive illusion" either, but i heard the terms "optimist" and "glass-half-full", which i think are the same thing?
Neither have i heard of the term "depressive-realism".
Happy to learn these two new terms! :bigsmile:

I'm just curious if the psychiatric field would define "positive illusion" as rational or irrational thinking? (as in "generalization", "all-or-nothing", "future reading", "catastrophising", etc - which are defined as "irrational" thought patterns).
And would "depressive-realism" be defined as rational or irrational?
I think both terms are right on the line between being labelled/categorised as rational or irrational, but for sure they both are much more rational than irrational (ie both are mainly rational, with a little bit of irrationality). However, i'm sure many people/groups out there will automatically jump to their own generalised conclusion about whether each should be classed or viewed as rational or irrational (which is actually an act of irrational thinking itself! -> "jumping to conclusions", jumping the mental skip-rope to the internal musical band "The Conclusions" )

 

[Bronson99]

I think the term "male loser" would apply primarily to said person's mindset, which is negative, irrational, gloomy, hopeless, etc.
So, my answer to the question "are male losers doomed forever" would be YES, but only while their mental outlook stays the same .. otherwise the answer would be NO.

Fair enough, but you should also be able to defend your own position, somewhat... have you noticed a generalized improvement in your life ever since you made an active effort to embrace optimism, and fight against the voice of negativity?

And my other question.. I'm not sure if you're talking about me when you say "irrational", but if you do find some of my statements to be irrational.. maybe you could explain a bit more? I don't mean to put you on the spot, though.

 

[theslowesthand]

Fair enough, but you should also be able to defend your own position, somewhat... have you noticed a generalized improvement in your life ever since you made an active effort to embrace optimism, and fight against the voice of negativity?

Well i do tend to be very hard on myself, certainly way more so than anyone else is hard on me, so i dont habitually stickup for myself readily (mainly i think to incredibly low self-esteem). I only ever "defend" myself when theres a definite legitimate reason that i should (eg sby is misinterpreting my life situation).
Oh yes, i am trying my level best to remain "positive" 24/7. One reason for this is that i can very easily get severely depressed, esp nowadays. So really there's no choice but to be positive (& perhaps a bit "falsely optimistic" at times). If it helps my well-being, & mood, i'll do it.

And my other question.. I'm not sure if you're talking about me when you say "irrational", but if you do find some of my statements to be irrational.. maybe you could explain a bit more? I don't mean to put you on the spot, though.

I mentioned "irrational" a few times in my posts above, but by no means was i referring to you or anyone else in particular - but i was referring to people in general who may have some irrationality going on (but really, are any people anwhere who are never irrational, not even in the slightest??)

Okay i'm done, meds are taking effect, sleep time now.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[jayfan]

yes . as a loser who happens to be a male. i feel like being nonexistant. like as if i want to kill myself so i dont have to see just how bad my life is going continue to be. I try and try just dont like myself and cant get over sa.
. i know that people treat you how you want/allow them to treat you .

it kills who i really am because of self confidence, its like a catch 22 . i have no self confidence cause im a loser and im a loser because i have self confidence.

i have no career , no job , i do have a few male friends who i hang out with that are normal guys but as far as with females. i get initial interest until they get to hang out with me. as a guy with sa you are seen as useless and kid like. girls can get away with it more because guys like girls for different reasons then girls like guys. sucks but just the way it is.

 

[Kiwong]

A chick magnet? That'd freak me out, too many people, no peace. There are advantages to being a people repellent, peace and solitude. A chick magnet, would be like travelling through Asia or India, people in your face all the time, never a moments peace.

 

[accidentprone]

Oh, yeah... Don't mind Reddit. It's a hazardous place full of shallow "kids." I decided that I no longer wanted to be a part of the community after the subreddit "roast me" became a thing. [Check it: https://www.reddit.com/r/roastme] Now, I get that it's a joke. However, I won't condone putting others down for a good laugh. What do you think?

That's just to say that the lady's a part of all the shallowness. She's setting a high bar for what constitutes "proper" for all men, failing to take into consideration everybody's unique backgrounds and upbringings. Psh. You have your reasons for not being college educated but that doesn't by any means make you a "loser." If that's the only thing holding you back, then you need to change your mentality. Really - you're good at your own things and you're your own person. Even if you don't have any skills, so ****ing what? You are no less a person than somebody else for it. Society's stupid... The world of reddit sucks, period.

Just start by not calling yourself a "male loser" because you, again, aren't. Don't seek validation from such acidic people and then make it reality. You've got lots of potential, no doubt - all people do.

Good luck! Sorry for the lateness... I've logged into this site the first time in awhile during my winter break. Anyway - message me if you're feeling like crap. I know the feeling too well... People are constantly calling me a "permanent virgin" and "ugly nerd" but I'm in the process of learning to get past all that shit. I'll learn with you!

 

[accidentprone]

Once again, it's okay. You don't have to have a specialization. Even if you decide to pick up a skill, you don't have to necessarily be good at it. There's no need to focus on your mastery or expertise so long as you actually enjoy it. That's what a skill means to me, at least. I'm no Alan Turing but I love Computer Science. So much. I can study programming and cryptography endlessly even knowing that I'm not great at it. That's the thing -- if you're automatically good at it, then you're not going to have fun. The purpose is to pick up a skill and then you get better at it. It takes years or even a life time so don't give up before you start.

What about a hobby even? Reading doesn't require you to particularly be "good" at it. Even watching TV and critically analyzing it could be something fun. You'll have a much more positive mentality when you're not basing it around standards... which, you'll find, are highly subjective person to person. Who's to say your idea of "bad" isn't my "good" or vice versa? That's my 2 cents anyway. You seem like a great guy... Kind of like my old friend who was super intelligent and self-aware even though he had no college education and thought he had no "skills." He turned out to be a great writer after all... So, keep at it, man!

 

[Bronson99]

Hello accident prone,

Yes I do have hobbies.. one where I am noticing improvement, and working hard at it.. but the problem is I'm at an age where it is unforgivable to lack a true vocation, financial security and sheer independence.

It's a real mess because what's happened is I cannot put off the desire for interpersonal relationships any longer without losing every chance of it, and yet what's happening is people are telling me "forget about that, take 4 years to fix everything that's broken" which is still poor advice because:

1) I've got ADD, social anxiety, and some autistic qualities.. there is not much I CAN fix
2) By that time, even if I do improve a few things, I'll be legitimately old and still have no interpersonal experience.

What I need is some kind of extremely simple and low-pressure guidelines for reaching the modest goals I have set, and lots of optimism about it.

If you found this confusing and still want to talk, just send a PM.

 

[Megaten]

You said 4 years to fix things, what do you mean by that exactly? You dont have to give a long explanation, Im just unclear where your deadlines are coming from. Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.

 

[Bronson99]

You said 4 years to fix things, what do you mean by that exactly? You dont have to give a long explanation, Im just unclear where your deadlines are coming from. Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.

No specific source, it just seems a lot of advice I've gotten is "take the time to fix yourself, forget about everything else," but that window of time is nearly closed already.

 

[Megaten]

No specific source, it just seems a lot of advice I've gotten is "take the time to fix yourself, forget about everything else," but that window of time is nearly closed already.

Oh honestly I think the main reason most people will tell you that is because that'll make you a happier person in the long run. And I dont even think a person needs to take years to fix themselves before they can think of dating, it'll probably just make it easier to do and less likely to cause yourself more grief. Like for instance, what happened with the first woman I tried dating. After the first date, it took me like a day and a half to work up the courage to call her back. But my anxiety was so bad that I didnt consider that she was at work while I was trying to touch base lol. So I overreacted and texted her a few times wondering if everything was ok and explaining that I was new to this, and boy she got mad. I didnt get a second date by the way. But I might have avoided that scenario had I worked on my confidence more first and not freak out because I didnt get a response right away.

 

[Catalyst]

How strange. I just read some similar crap on reddit about "incel" men and it upset me enough to lead me here, haha. It amazes me how cruel and heartless some women can be. Makes me question if all this relationship crap is really worth it. I am starting to realize that contrary to popular belief, most women lack empathy.

Well yes I've been accused of this before, it's a reasonable accusation, I'll give you that.. but no that's not quite the modus operandi, even if it's part of the equation.

What's going on is I never used to care about having qualities that may attract interest from the opposite sex--it never even occurred to me, in fact, as I didn't mind so much being the shy, eccentric type with no real direction in life. There was of course an underlying unmet desire there, which I will admit caused much frustration, but I felt "let's put this off, I'll straighten myself out a bit eventually, I'm sure" and that didn't happen. Instead, some self-inflicted wounds (emotional) occurred which made me a less motivated person, and I was content to just be an escapist indefinitely, putting everything off with hardly a care.

Well, unfortunately, time passed and no progress occurred and I was still the same "L" word I was years ago, perhaps even worse, due to lack of progress. This "waking up" has happened too late, though.. that's what I'm dealing with now, and it's rough. I fear the stigma may not be overcome.. virtually everyone my age is far ahead.

I can strongly relate to all of this. I'm sorry for what you are going through. I'm in the same situation and it is extremely painful. Like you, I started caring about this too late and now it feels impossible to catch up with people my age socially. I've been in the same place for 9 years now! Recently, I have been feeling suicidal about these things. Out of curiosity, are you in your early 20s?

 

[Catalyst]

Positive feedback loops can't be created in a vacuum.

The psychologist Eric Berne put this in a way by saying that people need a certain amount of social "strokes" from other people to feel good about themselves.

Everyone hungers for strokes and external validation. Some more than others.

And when you think about it, the classical definitions of success are centered around things that will give the successful individual more social strokes.

For example, a pile of physical, paper cash holds no value in itself, it's just paper, but the amount of social validation that the cash represents is extremely valuable to the owner of the cash.

This is very true. How can someone become "positive" and successful without external validation? I'm so tired of everyone blaming "losers" for their misfortune. A person can only do so much to improve their circumstances. The rest of it depends on the world, how others react, and luck.

 

[Bronson99]

I can strongly relate to all of this. I'm sorry for what you are going through. I'm in the same situation and it is extremely painful. Like you, I started caring about this too late and now it feels impossible to catch up with people my age socially. I've been in the same place for 9 years now! Recently, I have been feeling suicidal about these things. Out of curiosity, are you in your early 20s?

Your question is not very helpful h:

 

[Catalyst]

Your question is not very helpful h:

I'm a bit confused by this response.

Anyways, sorry. I was just curious. Thought maybe it's an age related crisis or some shit.