Jealousy of other people?

[Articulate]

^12 and 16? That's a big age gap. This 12 years old boy must be very mature for his age.

No he wasn't mature. In fact he was actually very immature. Seriously this kid had no redeeming features besides being very very handsome. Obviously this was enough for hordes of women to shower him with undeserved affection, love and emotional support thereby feeding his ego and letting him develop self confidence/self assurance and inner strength. I don't know how many times I've seen girls/women with boys who they claim are 'nice and interesting and lovely' and show them love even though they're completely undeserving of such affection. All the while these girls/women insist they are not vain. I know that sounds self indulgent, but having worked in education ive become convinced that affection from females is an absolutely integral part of a boy/man's development. in the absence of it I believe you fail to fully develop.

 

[laure15]

No he wasn't mature. In fact he was actually very immature. Seriously this kid had no redeeming features besides being very very handsome. Obviously this was enough for hordes of women to shower him with undeserved affection, love and emotional support thereby feeding his ego and letting him develop self confidence/self assurance and inner strength. I don't know how many times I've seen girls/women with boys who they claim are 'nice and interesting and lovely' and show them love even though they're completely undeserving of such affection. All the while these girls/women insist they are not vain. I know that sounds self indulgent, but having worked in education ive become convinced that affection from females is an absolutely integral part of a boy/man's development. in the absence of it I believe you fail to fully develop.

I agree, this kid looks physically handsome but may not be mature mentally or emotionally. And the girls who fall for him are probably more influenced by hormones than by their brains; not many teenage girls are mature at this age, many of their body parts (i.e. brain) are still developing.

I agree that "affection from females is an absolutely integral part of a boy/man's development," but affection doesn't necessarily have to come from a girlfriend. Affection can be from the boy's mother, grandmother, aunt, and female friends.

 

[gustavofring]

How can a 13 year old be "handsome" haha?

I think most are still very kid-like at that age. Heck, Justin Bieber is like 17, but he seems still like a kid to me. Maybe "cute" is a better word?

Anyway, I wouldn't let it bother you. Don't forget that "prettyboys" don't have it as easy in life as you think. They could deal with a lot of jaleous guys, or men who call them gay or are in other ways resentful of them and get a lot of $hit for that.

 

[Articulate]

How can a 13 year old be "handsome" haha?

I think most are still very kid-like at that age. Heck, Justin Bieber is like 17, but he seems still like a kid to me. Maybe "cute" is a better word?

Anyway, I wouldn't let it bother you. Don't forget that "prettyboys" don't have it as easy in life as you think. They could deal with a lot of jaleous guys, or men who call them gay or are in other ways resentful of them and get a lot of $hit for that.

Cute and handsome are virtually indistinguishable in terms of their value. They may be perceived differently of course. I mean there's a creative difference between a 'cute' guy and a 'handsome' one, but there isn't a qualitative difference. Ultimately being either 'cute' or 'handsome' has one benefit: the attraction of the opposite sex, and the affirmation of your peers for that strength.

Good looking is good looking regardless of the type or style. A demure petite girl is attractive, a sensual figuresome girl is attractive. What makes them attractive isn't paramount. That 12 year old boy was just good looking regardless of whether it was cute or handsome.

I think one of the big misconceptions about relationships is that it's men who are the vain ones. Men are constantly criticised for going after girls of a certain body type, or valuing appearance above personality; however, women are easily equal to this crime and possibly supersede it.

I've seen so many: intelligent, bright girls show huge affection to men who don't deserve it and inventing reasons to compensate for the fact that they are simply attracted to them.

Case in point. My brother is totally different to me, he's extremely handsome. However, he's open enough to admit that dozens of intelligent women have said to him 'you're such a nice guy' 'you're so understandng' or 'you're so kind.' and he openly admits he's been NONE of those things when with these girls. Those qualities get imagined by women when a man is attractive.

 

[Articulate]

I agree, this kid looks physically handsome but may not be mature mentally or emotionally. And the girls who fall for him are probably more influenced by hormones than by their brains; not many teenage girls are mature at this age, many of their body parts (i.e. brain) are still developing.

I agree that "affection from females is an absolutely integral part of a boy/man's development," but affection doesn't necessarily have to come from a girlfriend. Affection can be from the boy's mother, grandmother, aunt, and female friends.

I agree with that completely. I crave affection from women, but it certainly need not come from a girlfriend. I'd prefer it to, but the longer I've been without it the more I've understood that it only has to come from somewhere, and that it doesn't have to be romantic in nature, or have sexual contact suggested by it.

I'd happily accept my first hug from a female friend, and love to hold hands for the first time with a female friend. Or just be friendly with someone who is female. That would compensate for alot of my childhood and adolescence

 

[truffleshuffle]

Case in point. My brother is totally different to me, he's extremely handsome. However, he's open enough to admit that dozens of intelligent women have said to him 'you're such a nice guy' 'you're so understandng' or 'you're so kind.' and he openly admits he's been NONE of those things when with these girls. Those qualities get imagined by women when a man is attractive.

I have run into the same kind of thing. I am older than my brother who is 2 years younger than me. But he is alot more handsome than I am and the girls seem to fawn all over him no matter how bad he treated them. I on the other hand can basicly not get the time of day from them no matter how well I treat them. The only time they really pay much attention to me is if they need somethng from me. I have a strange feeling even if I treated them bad since I don;t have the looks of my brother I would still be in the same place that I am now.

 

[user deleted]

I can’t help but feel you’re being hasty and pretty harsh in judging this kid. Firstly, he’s a child – children do act in a particularly obnoxious way, it’s almost expected, especially in response to authority figures. You don’t mix with him socially, nor do you see what goes on for him at home, and I feel like you don’t necessarily have enough information to make a sound judgement as to whether or not he has any more redeeming qualities. Teenagers also have a very limited capacity to form meaningful romantic relationships – they are primarily based on physical attractiveness (or simply.. whoever is available) because nobody really knows themselves enough to know what they really want in a partner.

As for adults, physical attractiveness is obviously a factor in general attraction, I’m sure there are things you’re attracted to and things you aren’t. I feel like you’re almost so focused on the fact that someone is attractive that you’re maybe ignoring other qualities they may have.

I’m sure you realise there’s definitely massive pressure on men to perform masculine gender roles in order to avoid social exclusion. I’m not saying that it is right, but surely you must realise that simply because some people act in a certain way, it doesn’t mean that’s how they are behind closed doors. Case in point, I know many of my female friends have had partners that I’ve met socially and thought ‘why….’, but my friends have told me there’s a huge disparity between how they are socially and how they treat them behind closed doors. It seems to me, in masculine culture, that being sensitive and kind, and not treating women like objects is almost unacceptable, it implies weakness. Whilst this is changing, it is definitely prevalent. It isn’t ideal, but it’s a product of the social conditions we live in.

My point is, whilst you say the only reason that women are with certain men is because they’re good looking, that doesn’t necessarily make it true. You don’t know what people are really like much of the time, because the public face often contrasts vastly with how people are privately.

 

[truffleshuffle]

I can’t help but feel you’re being hasty and pretty harsh in judging this kid. Firstly, he’s a child – children do act in a particularly obnoxious way, it’s almost expected, especially in response to authority figures. You don’t mix with him socially, nor do you see what goes on for him at home, and I feel like you don’t necessarily have enough information to make a sound judgement as to whether or not he has any more redeeming qualities. Teenagers also have a very limited capacity to form meaningful romantic relationships – they are primarily based on physical attractiveness (or simply.. whoever is available) because nobody really knows themselves enough to know what they really want in a partner.

As for adults, physical attractiveness is obviously a factor in general attraction, I’m sure there are things you’re attracted to and things you aren’t. I feel like you’re almost so focused on the fact that someone is attractive that you’re maybe ignoring other qualities they may have.

I’m sure you realise there’s definitely massive pressure on men to perform masculine gender roles in order to avoid social exclusion. I’m not saying that it is right, but surely you must realise that simply because some people act in a certain way, it doesn’t mean that’s how they are behind closed doors. Case in point, I know many of my female friends have had partners that I’ve met socially and thought ‘why….’, but my friends have told me there’s a huge disparity between how they are socially and how they treat them behind closed doors. It seems to me, in masculine culture, that being sensitive and kind, and not treating women like objects is almost unacceptable, it implies weakness. Whilst this is changing, it is definitely prevalent. It isn’t ideal, but it’s a product of the social conditions we live in.

My point is, whilst you say the only reason that women are with certain men is because they’re good looking, that doesn’t necessarily make it true. You don’t know what people are really like much of the time, because the public face often contrasts vastly with how people are privately.

I deffently agree with your point of view for the most part but I have also seen alot of it where the person is the same or harsher in private and the women still fawn and flock to them. Its like they crave the treatment and if they don;t get it there not loved or something. I have seen it both ways. I will admit I don;t treat women bad but I am also masculine for the most part at lest usualy but I won;t treat a woman like trash publicly or privatly just to get them to want to be with me and I know that my looks do negitivly affect my luck with most women and I know that being attractive is not everying for a woman but it opens up the door of opurtunity more than someone less attractive.

 

[JackOfSpades]

I think women in general have the ability to be a lot more selective. And as a result of that some develop a dismissive and rejecting attitude towards men they don't want. In my experience it has been nearly impossible to get my foot in the door with women who don't view me as attractive, and when I am viewed as attractive they do seem to let regrettable aspects of our relations go accepted. I don't think the attraction has to come from the physical but I don't think it comes from the qualities they profess to desire. In my experience it is immeasurably more helpful to be cocky/persistent/suggestive. It's gotten me further than any amount of goodwill and sincerity has. And it does give me resentment, because I hate the idea that to get the attention of a girl I genuinely want, a girl i genuinely care about and want to be with, that it's better to play the game than to value her as a person, at least during courtship.

This is just my experience.

 

[user deleted]

Oh yeah, it definitely happens that some people are jerks and still get women. I just meant it isn't always the case, we can't always be sure.

There is some psychology behind it I suppose. I think it has a lot to do with self esteem. I do know one guy who I suppose if I thought about it is kind of average looking, I wouldn't say he was 'handsome'. He gets more women than any other guy I've met though, simply by treating women badly. He insults their friends, insults them, and then hits on them. You'd think it would repel women, but it actually works.. I think there's some natural competition between women and when he insults them, and their friends, but then starts hitting on them.. it makes them feel.. special.. in some weird way. He makes out like he has really high standards because he's always insulting women and thus women he hits on feel like they must be really attractive. I don't think it's shallow though, it's just psychological weakness being exploited. Too many people's sense of self-worth is based on what other people think of them and is therefore subject to constant change. It's almost human nature for some people to seek the self-esteem boost.

 

[user deleted]

I think women in general have the ability to be a lot more selective. And as a result of that some develop a dismissive and rejecting attitude towards men they don't want. In my experience it has been nearly impossible to get my foot in the door with women who don't view me as attractive, and when I am viewed as attractive they do seem to let regrettable aspects of our relations go accepted. I don't think the attraction has to come from the physical but I don't think it comes from the qualities they profess to desire. In my experience it is immeasurably more helpful to be cocky/persistent/suggestive. It's gotten me further than any amount of goodwill and sincerity has. And it does give me resentment, because I hate the idea that to get the attention of a girl I genuinely want, a girl i genuinely care about and want to be with, that it's better to play the game than to value her as a person, at least during courtship.

This is just my experience.

I feel like the opposite is actually true, men can afford to be a lot more selective than women can. Women outnumber men in most Western societies. In the UK it's something like 4:1. Not to mention that by society's standards, women devalue with age very quickly, and men don't. There is an obsession with female youth that doesn't carry over to men. It's also far less likely to see an older woman with a young man than the reverse.

 

[JackOfSpades]

Sometimes I don't like the idea of "exploiting". And any guy who's genuinely interested in a woman shouldn't either. And that's the irony, if that's the guy women expect to be the pinnacle.

It may be psychology, it may be instinctual, but at some point we have to start using brains here.

 

[JackOfSpades]

I feel like the opposite is actually true, men can afford to be a lot more selective than women can. Women outnumber men in most Western societies. In the UK it's something like 4:1. Not to mention that by society's standards, women devalue with age very quickly, and men don't. There is an obsession with female youth that doesn't carry over to men. It's also far less likely to see an older woman with a young man than the reverse.

These are very good points but I think men tend to desire more widely than women do. Which makes it harder to fall into their window of appeal. Also, from a biological standpoint, women are more wired for one mate or one mate at any time. So the burden of selction is in fact on them.

 

[Articulate]

"I can’t help but feel you’re being hasty and pretty harsh in judging this kid. Firstly, he’s a child – children do act in a particularly obnoxious way, it’s almost expected, especially in response to authority figures. You don’t mix with him socially, nor do you see what goes on for him at home, and I feel like you don’t necessarily have enough information to make a sound judgement as to whether or not he has any more redeeming qualities. Teenagers also have a very limited capacity to form meaningful romantic relationships – they are primarily based on physical attractiveness (or simply.. whoever is available) because nobody really knows themselves enough to know what they really want in a partner."

This is not true at all. I knew this kid's family very well, and I knew as aquaintances, or colleagues lots of other people who knew him. Trust me he had seriously unlikeable qualities about him. Unbelievably arrogant, exceptionally egotistical because his family had alot of money, totally unreliable, extremely disrespectful to poor employees in his dad's business. He also had no work ethic and no respect for anyone but himself. This kid had a very bad reputation among: parents, teachers, people who worked for his dad etc. I'll say in his defence he wasn't malicious or bad in terms of hurting people. I will also say that the attention girls gave him very much exacerbated these negative traits because they gave him the knowledge that he didn't have to bother to change. However, this kid is a particularly good example because he was extremely unlikeable, but at the same time extremely good looking. You could see that as soon as you saw him, you were struck by his face. What annoyed me about all the girls who swooned to him is that they totally denied they were doing it because of his appearance. I remember taking the 16 year old girl's class once and some students were very mildly teasing her about being a 'cradle snatcher', she was obviously popular, and she kept saying 'he's so understanding.' Yet when I was with this boy's family at their home, and he was talking about it not once did he express one ounce of emotion or understanding. He just, in an incredibly smug way, kept repeating 'I'm handsome' or 'they all think I'm adorable.'

My brother is also a good example because he's really candid about his experiences. Yes he admits sometimes he has turned on the charm offensive, yet he openly admits that other times he's just an unreliable, disinterested b*stard yet they still say he's wonderful.

There are two points to make here. Firstly that I think it's unfair to say either sex is more vain than the other; however, women so seldom admit to being vain. You never hear women say they like this boy or this guy because of how he looks even when it's so obviously true. Men on the otherhand are much more open about the fact that they are physically attracted to girls and that's what draws them in. Women always seem to need to pretend that something 'else' is going on. They have a hard time ever just saying 'I'm with that guys because he looks hot.' Men do that all the time.

Also the point about which sex can be more selective is risky. However, it's a stone cold fact that any average looking woman can leave her home and in the course of that day find several men who would happily sleep with her. An average looking man can DEFINATELY not do that. I think a stunningly handsome/wealthy man has more control over selection that a beautiful/wealthy girl because he has more freedom, but on the whole women have far far more selective power.

I'll never forget knowing a nice/demure girl in class at university. I really liked her and wanted to be her friend outside of class, and maybe take her for coffee. She gently rebuffed me three times. However, after the third rejection I remember in creative writing we were composing pieces about what person we're attracted to. What really drives us to seek another person? She wrote this very eloquent, apparently sincere, piece about needing an intelligent, kind and mysterious man. She even showed it to me as 'proof' of what her intellectual standards were. Not long after, and it's surely no surprise, I found out she was going out with a boy I had known in college from the basketball team. Very tall, great face, but with a reputation for being a seriously pushy and arrogant partner who upset multiple girls in college, and already a few in the first year of uni. Intelligent he was not! Kind and mysterious give me a break? Of course unlike a boy who would admit that he was with someone because 'she's just gorgeous' this girl wouldn't in her wildest dreams ever admit that this was the ONLY reason she was with him.

 

[laure15]

I'll never forget knowing a nice/demure girl in class at university. I really liked her and wanted to be her friend outside of class, and maybe take her for coffee. She gently rebuffed me three times. However, after the third rejection I remember in creative writing we were composing pieces about what person we're attracted to. What really drives us to seek another person? She wrote this very eloquent, apparently sincere, piece about needing an intelligent, kind and mysterious man. She even showed it to me as 'proof' of what her intellectual standards were. Not long after, and it's surely no surprise, I found out she was going out with a boy I had known in college from the basketball team. Very tall, great face, but with a reputation for being a seriously pushy and arrogant partner who upset multiple girls in college, and already a few in the first year of uni. Intelligent he was not! Kind and mysterious give me a break? Of course unlike a boy who would admit that he was with someone because 'she's just gorgeous' this girl wouldn't in her wildest dreams ever admit that this was the ONLY reason she was with him.

I agree. I think the only reason this demure girl went out with the basketball player is because this guy was way out of her league. She was given an opportunity to date someone who is beyond her wildest dreams - popular, hot, tall, experienced, athletic, etc - and she just couldn't pass it up. If you were given an opportunity to date a a really hot sexy beautiful girl, a “diamond in the rough,” would you gladly accept her or reject her instead? For many average-looking men, this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity so I imagine many guys will have a hard time passing this chance.

But on some level, I think this girl knew the relationship won’t last because there’s just no way she could settle with a guy like this. But, she went for the wild ride anyway because she wanted to experience some fun before she get married, have kids, and settle down. Just like some guys wanted to experience three-somes before they settle down.

 

[JackOfSpades]

But generally I think guys will often admit this, whereas generally I think women often won't. Moreover, guys are often shamed for this type of behavior by women.

 

[Articulate]

I agree. I think the only reason this demure girl went out with the basketball player is because this guy was way out of her league. She was given an opportunity to date someone who is beyond her wildest dreams - popular, hot, tall, experienced, athletic, etc - and she just couldn't pass it up. If you were given an opportunity to date a a really hot sexy beautiful girl, a “diamond in the rough,” would you gladly accept her or reject her instead? For many average-looking men, this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity so I imagine many guys will have a hard time passing this chance.

But on some level, I think this girl knew the relationship won’t last because there’s just no way she could settle with a guy like this. But, she went for the wild ride anyway because she wanted to experience some fun before she get married, have kids, and settle down. Just like some guys wanted to experience three-somes before they settle down.

She was an attractive girl. It wasn't like something out of her wildest dreams. It's just another one of the countless examples ofgirls choosing their partners solely because of appearance and as always pretending that wasn't the reason. I don't understand why women have to always invent reasons for choosing boys/men. Why can't they just put their hands up and own up to being just as vain as men.

 

[jaim38]

She was an attractive girl. It wasn't like something out of her wildest dreams. It's just another one of the countless examples ofgirls choosing their partners solely because of appearance and as always pretending that wasn't the reason. I don't understand why women have to always invent reasons for choosing boys/men. Why can't they just put their hands up and own up to being just as vain as men.

You make a good point in this thread. As a woman, I will admit to being shallow/superficial when having crushes on guys. I daydream about guys who are handsome and rich, but I'm scared of admitting this because I don't want to be called shallow, superficial, gold-digging, etc. But in real life, I know I won't ever score such a guy because let's be realistic here, I'm not hot, good-looking, or wealthy.

 

[Fighter86]

She was an attractive girl. It wasn't like something out of her wildest dreams. It's just another one of the countless examples ofgirls choosing their partners solely because of appearance and as always pretending that wasn't the reason. I don't understand why women have to always invent reasons for choosing boys/men. Why can't they just put their hands up and own up to being just as vain as men.

Yes women can be just as vain as men when it comes to choosing partners, but I imagine many would agree that men are definately more inclined to go for good looking ladies. You almost always hear or read men going 'she was so beautiful and so nice' much lesser simply 'she's so nice' therefore he is interested, the beautiful part always come into play for a man to find a women so great. Whereas it is lesser that a women go 'he's so handsome and so nice' they do simply like a man simply because 'he's so nice' more often.

 

[truffleshuffle]

Yes women can be just as vain as men when it comes to choosing partners, but I imagine many would agree that men are definately more inclined to go for good looking ladies. You almost always hear or read men going 'she was so beautiful and so nice' much lesser simply 'she's so nice' therefore he is interested, the beautiful part always come into play for a man to find a women so great. Whereas it is lesser that a women go 'he's so handsome and so nice' they do simply like a man simply because 'he's so nice' more often.

I am not sure I totaly agree with what you say here. From my own exsperince and what I have seen even if the guy is the the best person in the world but dosn;t have the looks to go with it more often then not he will not be liked simply just becasue he is so nice. He will get friend zoned faster than you can blink your eyes and im sure there are woment with the same kind of exsperince as me. I think no one is more shallow than the next person shallow is shallow.I think it just all depends on if you are male or female as to how you look at it.