You want to know how to change your social anxiety / phobia?

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Alex,

I really like what you wrote for #2. About knowing the difference between what we can and cannot change. And your definition that 'anxiety' is really concerned with changing what can be changed. -this I find interesting, so I will ask you to elaborate more so that I can get a clearer picture. Do you mean that we try to find our place in the world, to adapt and adjust, yet our sense of how to do this is unclear...

And, I think that you said that we are effected by society into defining our values for good/bad, strong/weak and because we are more the anxious-sensitive types, we try to fit into society changing our self more than we should, perhaps.
I like this with the idea that we don't have a clear sense of who we are, that is, what we can and cannot change, and 'good' and 'bad' as relates to who we are within the world.

The other thing you brought up a few posts ago is also interesting. How you identified certain positives coming with a high level of anxiety.

I also simply have to mention how amazing it is that you have such a similar relationship to your sibling as me. I asked you what your relationship was with your siblings, almost knowing that you would have a sister -is it an older sister, at that :wink: - who, similar to mine, is the social butterfly. I've often believed that a degree of my problems come from always having been in the shadow of my sister the social giant. Even in this way, have my values about how I should be in the world been effected. When I was younger, people would compare me to my sister; not hiding the fact that they found her so much more appealing. And despite a bit of shyness and awkwardness, such a comparison was unfair. And also, simply the way we grew up, bouncing off one another in how our personalities formed. I even remember the exact moment that I chose to stop competing with her for my parent's attention -we were in the car and I was sick of having to compete to get a word in edge wise that I decided being quiet was better.

And even when I felt anxiety at work, thoughts of how my sister, the professional extrovert, was better and that I needed to meet her standard to be adequate, entered my mind.

I'm not blaming her. I am noticing that it's highly likely that this family relationship has contributed to both my good and bad qualities now. That it is likely to have played a part in both my high standards and the insecurity that I feel dealing with people (which I don't always have though).

Also, my family are Italian and there is a sort of unwritten code whereby being a controlling stress head goes with being a woman, in my family. My mother and sister are also 'stress heads' yet they function well in the sence that they are not searching to change how they do things as I am. And my sister and mother are somewhat domineering personalities in their own specific ways. My sister is in terms of how she has a tendency to completely take-over any social situation.

Anyhow, I don't seek to blame anyone. I realise that that is not the way. I am just looking into whatever values I may have internalised that are causing me difficulty.
And, it's funny how I was spot-on thinking that you would have a sibling, and a sister at that, who would be a social butterfly!!! -don't you think?! :!: 8O :!:

 

[Alexp]

Hi again!

I think it is one of the biggest problems. We are constantly trying to change that which cant be changed and also not willing to change that which can be changed. Yeah, I think it is our minds trying to adapt and adjust to the world around us and overall it does a pretty good job without us even knowing what its doing. There are plenty of exceptions and problems though.

Like for example, some people blame themselves (I tend to do this) when its not even their fault or something that cant be changed. Your mind uses guilt and anxiety to try to change something that cant be changed (because it was never your fault) or (because it’s a part of you which cant be changed) and as a result, you end up focusing on something endlessly in an effort to change, but because its unchangeable, it just wont let up.

On the other end, some people learn to get mad at others when its really their own fault in a way to stop the anxiety of self corrections. But this doesn’t really work either, because you cant typically curb someone else’s behavior when its not their fault to begin with. You end up in a cycle of anger and anxiety which takes some time to let up – if ever.

When its something that cant be changed, the only alternative is acceptance – typically associated with sadness. It’s a one time process and if done right, you will never have to deal with that particular issue again (with anxiety). It has to be something that is permanent. If your pet dies, then instead of blaming yourself or blaming the vet or something, once you accept that its now permanently unchangeable, you can adapt and move on with your life.

Some people try to accept things that are temporary or something that you do have the power to change and get into the same kind of problems. Like some people accept that they are a failure in an effort to avoid the anxiety and pain of self correction and failure itself. This kind of stuff is usually temporary or something that you can change and you end up dealing with the same issue over and over again in a rollercoaster type emotional way. Accepting things like thinking you are stupid, worthless, dirty…are in the same category. Its unrealistically exaggerated and unrealistically permanent and will cycle anxiety and especially depression in this case over and over.

There are various scenarios that we continually mix up our emotions which end up pushing us into cycles of anxiety and possibly depression. Typically we do end up eventually figuring out the right path with specific things (out of prolonged trial and error), but it can take time and sometimes by the time that’s done, we are dealing with 2 other issues of the same thing.

There are times when we never find the right emotional path too. Like when you believe something that is against your own human nature. You can never accept that sexuality is bad, because sexual desire it always present to some degree. If you could accept it as bad and never feel that desire again, then it could work, because then you are no longer that thing and you are no longer ‘bad’. But the desire is present and you continue to fight it with anxiety until you die or until you can reconcile it. Same goes with Social anxiety issues to a lesser degree. There is always a need to be loved and be socially accepted. You cant accept that social interaction is evil (I’ve tried that in the past too) because we all have a need to want to fit in and be loved to some degree.

The moral of the story is that we need to understand more with what our minds are doing and help direct the proper emotional path and know when its time to accept that something is realistically unchangeable. I think if we all had solid realistic perceptions of ourselves and the world around us, then it would all automatically fall into place too and the anxiety would be less. But we live in a world of skewed perceptions and unfair judgments or unfair ‘moral values’ which make it all the more challenging.

My dream one day would be to figure out a complete roadmap to controlling anxiety for specific problem areas. It can be so frustrating when you go a counselor or a psychologist and all they do is try to get you to talk about your ‘relationships’ and your problems in life. Sure its effective to some degree, because when you talk about it, its more likely to be seen logically and in a better context for that specific problem. But it doesn’t really change your expectations or perceptions nor does it pinpoint your emotional anxiety problems. Its more geared to helping specific problems and its emotional resolution and not realizing the underlying issues that will continue to cause problems for the rest of one’s life.

To tell people that extreme anxiety or depression is not the specific cause of problems but a symptom of skewed expectations and perceptions. To tell people to not continually try to use anxiety to change things about themselves that can’t be changed – and at the forefront of that is anxiety itself. You can never change anxiety with anxiety. To tell people to be honest and fair with themselves and allow for mistakes. Also never try to accept that something is bad if it’s normal human nature.

Hahaha, I know, MissMuffet, that’s very funny and yes it is an older sister. My Mom’s side is Hungarian which is very similar to the Italians too in their structure and the way they act too

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Alex,

I think that we may have hit the jackpot when we say that overcoming something like an anxiety problem requires knowing who you are in the world and because of this what you can and cannot change.

Even just simply having encountered and spoken with people here who have similar problems has helped me lessen the shame that I've been feeling on account of difficulties funcitioning in the outside world.

I think that when we are able to put the problem we have within the context of what unique and positive attributes come with it, and similar to this, when we can see 'the bigger picture' and put our problem within some normalised bigger perspective, that much of our anxiety will drop away.

I even think that social anxiety could simply be an identity crisis that sensitive and introverted people are more likely to experience. I think that the whole question is centred around identity.

Even the symptoms of social anxiety are all concerned with being judged for being shy and/or nervous. And there is a shame that we have attached to having these characteristics. I would say that we began more sensitive and prone to 'swinging' emotionally regarding our surroundings, and with this comes tendency towards being perfectionistic and difficulty adapting and being flexible (this comes with sensitive and reactive emotionality); add outside factors such as experiences growing-up with siblings who are louder and vied for attention from parents loudly and got it more than the quiet one, growing up with extroverted older siblings, and entering into a world in which extroversion is prized over introversion and we are taught that the strongest succeeds and that anything that doesn't match this standard loses.

And I really think that shame about being so sensitive and inferiority about being introverted go into what we know as social phobia. That it really is the attitudes and (largely unconcious) values we place on things like introversion, sensitivity that cause us anxiety problems. -Like how you said we are trying to change ourselves too much, competing to fit some standard that, in part, we have been taught or conditioned to accept and that otherwise because we are more emotionally extreme and different, we therefore feel greater pressure to give ourselves balance and fit in. ...Basically, I think it is about not knowing and valuing how we are different and not feeling secure about this.

Anyhow, I won't add much more now. I'll have more of a think about it since I think I'm leaving something out here.

Muffet

 

[LA-girl]

Hey MissMuffet!

I just wanted to say that when I came into this site half a year ago I ended up in a religious discussion and I was confident that what I had been taught for years was the truth. After discussing for a long time I realized that there were so many things I hadn't questioned before. And to make the story short I started this search to try to find out what the truth really was. And I can't believe all the things I have learned the last 6 months or so. I have even seperated from my old church because of it. So we all have to make that journey for ourself. I still have a long way to go in my "quest" for the truth, and I'm sure you haven't reached your final destination in your search either. Hopefully some day we will...

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi LAGirl,
maybe we could discuss a little about this. If we still disagree then we'll leave it at that.

 

[dzerklis]

i already know how to change it, its:

- doing CBT
- listening positive affirmations
- good sleep
- proper eating
- excesising
- staying positive
- focusing on good things
- sadly,its also spending less time reading this forum..

 

[LA-girl]

Hi LAGirl,
maybe we could discuss a little about this. If we still disagree then we'll leave it at that.

It seems like we both want to continue "walking" on the path we are on, and it is obvious that the paths we have chosen is somewhat different. That is why I think we're better off not to discuss this particular subject any further. I think I can speek for both of us when I say we respectfully disagree and leave it at that! :wink:

 

[LA-girl]

i already know how to change it, its:

- doing CBT
- listening positive affirmations
- good sleep
- proper eating
- excesising
- staying positive
- focusing on good things
- sadly,its also spending less time reading this forum..

Sounds like a good list, Dzerklis! The advices you gave are not only beneficial for anxiety, but for our overall health as well. The problem is just to pull myself in the ears and start living by them, it's unforunately not always that easy, but absolutely possible!

I just need a solid:

 

[Alexp]

I think that we may have hit the jackpot when we say that overcoming something like an anxiety problem requires knowing who you are in the world and because of this what you can and cannot change.

Even just simply having encountered and spoken with people here who have similar problems has helped me lessen the shame that I've been feeling on account of difficulties funcitioning in the outside world.

I think that when we are able to put the problem we have within the context of what unique and positive attributes come with it, and similar to this, when we can see 'the bigger picture' and put our problem within some normalised bigger perspective, that much of our anxiety will drop away.

I even think that social anxiety could simply be an identity crisis that sensitive and introverted people are more likely to experience. I think that the whole question is centred around identity.

Even the symptoms of social anxiety are all concerned with being judged for being shy and/or nervous. And there is a shame that we have attached to having these characteristics. I would say that we began more sensitive and prone to 'swinging' emotionally regarding our surroundings, and with this comes tendency towards being perfectionistic and difficulty adapting and being flexible (this comes with sensitive and reactive emotionality); add outside factors such as experiences growing-up with siblings who are louder and vied for attention from parents loudly and got it more than the quiet one, growing up with extroverted older siblings, and entering into a world in which extroversion is prized over introversion and we are taught that the strongest succeeds and that anything that doesn't match this standard loses.

And I really think that shame about being so sensitive and inferiority about being introverted go into what we know as social phobia. That it really is the attitudes and (largely unconcious) values we place on things like introversion, sensitivity that cause us anxiety problems. -Like how you said we are trying to change ourselves too much, competing to fit some standard that, in part, we have been taught or conditioned to accept and that otherwise because we are more emotionally extreme and different, we therefore feel greater pressure to give ourselves balance and fit in. ...Basically, I think it is about not knowing and valuing how we are different and not feeling secure about this.

Very well said! and a great way to sum things up

 

[dzerklis]

I just need a solid:[/b]

hehe LA-girl=) i need that too,but maybe in other form? i hate physical pain!

 

[COALPORTER]

i already know how to change it, its:

- doing CBT
- listening positive affirmations
- good sleep
- proper eating
- excesising
- staying positive
- focusing on good things
- sadly,its also spending less time reading this forum..

This is a nice list and I will try to use it.
It can be very hard though. To really "focus on good things" and "staying positive" because i think allot of us have "core programing" that is very negitive. Your core self is what comes out in the "heat of battle", for me that is social interaction. So , you can't really put on a happy face and just make all this crap go away. (I wish i could, but its not that easy)

BTW What is CBT ? 8O

 

[SocialRetahd]

- sadly,its also spending less time reading this forum..

why?