Why should men always be confident?

[Sebr3]

Sad as I am to admit, I can kind of understand why girls are (generally) attracted to confident guys. I think it's two fold- one it's linked to all this alpha male bullshit, which, like it or not, reverberates through nature. I guess the paradigm has slightly shifted in our society- being an alpha male is about power and the ability to influence and lead other men. Therefore it's not necessarily, as it is generally in nature, to do with brute strength, but often a different manifestation of power- maybe money, maybe intelligence. I think it's usually assumed that any manifestation of power will go hand in hand with confidence: confidence suggests, plain and simple, that you have something of value about you- something to give.

Now I can't really say why a similar 'confidence' does not seem to be required in females- not as far as I'm concerned anyway- I'm generally turned off by very confident women (which is a shame because they seem to be the ones I attract).

In my case, I've simply never been interested in being a 'leader' of other men- my choice has always been either 'equal' or 'loner'. I feel uneasy whenever I have correct someone on something, and certainly do not revel in pointing out others' mistakes. All this must come across as that I lack confidence- and I do: but not within myself, just in the way I project myself.

Which great artist was ever an alpha male, though?

Much of the confidence that some men often project is fake, but unfortunately many shallow/stupid women fall for it.

In my books, true confidence is when, for example someone starts their own business, now that takes a lot of guts. Think about it, when someone starts their own business, they often have to borrow a large sum of money at considerable risk (eg. they may have offered their family home as security) to start a business. Or true confidence is someone like a doctor or commercial airline pilot, these people are responsible for the lives of many innocent people, and if they make a bad call/decision, people die, and in the case of airline pilots, hundreds of innocent people can die.

But going back to relationships, many women are often attracted to "bad boys", and "thugs" thinking that these men are "confident", when in reality these dysfunctional men suffer from low self esteem, but put on a "show" of "toughness" to impress women.

 

[coriander1992]

You can say all this "Why should men.." blah blah blah, but it works both ways..

Why should women always have to wear nice clothes, and be pretty, and have good hair, and have big breasts, and a perfect figure, and be chatty, and kind, and confident?
I could go on forever. This works for both genders, so stop trying to make out like it's worse for you. :?

 

[persian]

Any fool can stick his "you know what" in a woman, but it takes a real and decent man to be a good father.

And do the"thugs" and "bad boys", that seem to get an endless supply of female affection/attention, are they more deserving of female affection than us unfortunate nice guys who get habitually ignored???? Who decides whether some guys deserve female affection, and who misses out??

It's a friggin shame that evolution and our primal instincts cannot separate "decent and real man" and "thugs and bad boys".

Who decides? Genes and nature. It all comes down to that.
If you were lucky enough to "grab" those good genes from the gene pool - you are prolly successful with opposite sex. If not, well ... then you're not I could go on and elaborate this further and further, but i think you get the picture
Some of us are just not meant to have someone

@coriander1992:
Men have it much worse, maybe better to say - men have it tougher, when it comes to dating and relationships. Not saying females have an easy ride, but they're better of then men

 

[bletch]

You people need to get out more. There is no "nice guys vs. bad boys" dichotomy. There is no "nice girls" vs. "stupid/shallow girls" dichotomy. You people are the shallow ones -- you act like the whole world holds to a handful of stereotype personalities. And of course your personality is the only one you think is "nice". :roll:

Everyone is unique. And there sure as hell ain't a human being who has ever lived whose personality could be summed up in one phrase. Your pat little worldview is degrading to everyone in it.

p.s. coriander made a good point too.

 

[coriander1992]

@coriander1992:
Men have it much worse, maybe better to say - men have it tougher, when it comes to dating and relationships. Not saying females have an easy ride, but they're better of then men

I beg to differ.
Both have it easier in some ways and harder in others, it's all relative. I don't think you can say one has it tougher overall than the other...their viewpoints and situations are too different when it comes to "dating and relatonships".

 

[Argamemnon]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

 

[persian]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

exactly what i mean.

 

[coriander1992]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

Not neccesarily at all...what if you are an ugly woman, or just not particularly attractive to males?

My point is that there are difficulties for both genders, I don't beleive you can state that it is harder for one than the other.

 

[ghost_train]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

Not neccesarily at all...what if you are an ugly woman, or just not particularly attractive to males?

My point is that there are difficulties for both genders, I don't beleive you can state that it is harder for one than the other.

I think there is some confusion as to exactly what we're talking about: if we're talking about relationships in general, then I think you are right in your point that it cannot be catagorically stated as 'easier' for one sex or the other. But if we're talking simply about the approach, I think you must concede that it IS easier for women (on average). Such is the nature of our society, at least in the UK, that the onus is placed on the male when it comes to making the approach.

Though not true 100% of the time, I think it's a pretty fair generalisation to say that a man will not be directly 'approached' by a woman of equal attractiveness, whereas a woman will be. ('Equal attractiveness' is obviously a very ambiguous term)

 

[coriander1992]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

Not neccesarily at all...what if you are an ugly woman, or just not particularly attractive to males?

My point is that there are difficulties for both genders, I don't beleive you can state that it is harder for one than the other.

I think there is some confusion as to exactly what we're talking about: if we're talking about relationships in general, then I think you are right in your point that it cannot be catagorically stated as 'easier' for one sex or the other. But if we're talking simply about the approach, I think you must concede that it IS easier for women (on average). Such is the nature of our society, at least in the UK, that the onus is placed on the male when it comes to making the approach.

Though not true 100% of the time, I think it's a pretty fair generalisation to say that a man will not be directly 'approached' by a woman of equal attractiveness, whereas a woman will be. ('Equal attractiveness' is obviously a very ambiguous term)

No, you're wrong, I fully understand what you are talking about...I just don't agree! :lol:

I don't think there's any point me contributing to this little debate anymore anyway, so let this be my last post on this thread. :wink:

 

[ghost_train]

Women have it easier in the sense that they could go to a cafe and simply wait for guys to approach them. I'm sure that women who go out often will eventually be approached by someone. Whether she will meet the right person is another story.

Not neccesarily at all...what if you are an ugly woman, or just not particularly attractive to males?

My point is that there are difficulties for both genders, I don't beleive you can state that it is harder for one than the other.

I think there is some confusion as to exactly what we're talking about: if we're talking about relationships in general, then I think you are right in your point that it cannot be catagorically stated as 'easier' for one sex or the other. But if we're talking simply about the approach, I think you must concede that it IS easier for women (on average). Such is the nature of our society, at least in the UK, that the onus is placed on the male when it comes to making the approach.

Though not true 100% of the time, I think it's a pretty fair generalisation to say that a man will not be directly 'approached' by a woman of equal attractiveness, whereas a woman will be. ('Equal attractiveness' is obviously a very ambiguous term)

No, you're wrong, I fully understand what you are talking about...I just don't agree! :lol:

I don't think there's any point me contributing to this little debate anymore anyway, so let this be my last post on this thread. :wink:

Without wishing to be the obstinate asshole that I'm apparently so intent on portraying myself as, I am in fact completely correct in my assertion, (and no, I offer no supporting evidence. This is not an attempt to get a rise out of you. Regard this reply only as a manifestation of mild OCD)

 

[coriander1992]

Despite me saying this would be my last post on this thread....I think it is neccesary for me to add that I think we should agree to disagree on this matter :wink:
I don't wish to start an argument with you

 

[ghost_train]

hahaha- I knew it. who will have the last say? ok ok- I agree to disagree..... OR DO I?!!?!? :twisted: (yeah I do :lol: )

 

[coriander1992]

:lol: <-- (Does this count as a "say"? :twisted: )

 

[ghost_train]

:lol: <-- (Does this count as a "say"? :twisted: )

I would 'say' so yes. But since I have just 'said' that, yours, whilst still a 'say', is no longer the 'last'. 8) eazzzzzy money

 

[coriander1992]

Alas, you've beaten me. :lol:

I will give up now, and let you have the last say :wink:

 

[Sebr3]

You people need to get out more. There is no "nice guys vs. bad boys" dichotomy. There is no "nice girls" vs. "stupid/shallow girls" dichotomy. You people are the shallow ones -- you act like the whole world holds to a handful of stereotype personalities. And of course your personality is the only one you think is "nice". :roll:

Everyone is unique. And there sure as hell ain't a human being who has ever lived whose personality could be summed up in one phrase. Your pat little worldview is degrading to everyone in it.

p.s. coriander made a good point too.

Are you serious???

I am sorry but there is strong anecdotal evidence to suggest that there is a large percentage of women who prefer "bad boys" over us boring nice guys, and I can speak from personal experience. Also there are lots of shallow women who only care about looks and/or money, does the name Heather Mills ring any bells???

And please don't call us love-shy guys shallow, we are anything but shallow, and once again your insults and shaming language are not welcome. By all means express your point of view, but back them up with facts NOT bullshit personal opinions.

Us nice guys/love shy guys are fucking sick to death of being demonised and shamed just because we are not a bunch of bed hopping "players/casanovas".

With regards to dating, women have it RIDICULOUSLY easy. Women are not the ones who have to make the first move, and put their egos on the line like us guys do. Women don't have to pay for anything, as they expect us men to, and don't believe that feminist bullshit that proclaims financial independence from men, because it's always the man who has to pay for everything.

Basically when it comes to dating, women don't do anything (apart from getting dressed up), it's us guys that have to do all the work and shoulder all the risks.

 

[celestialrecluse]

With regards to dating, women have it RIDICULOUSLY easy. Women are not the ones who have to make the first move, and put their egos on the line like us guys do. Women don't have to pay for anything, as they expect us men to, and don't believe that feminist bullshit that proclaims financial independence from men, because it's always the man who has to pay for everything.

Basically when it comes to dating, women don't do anything (apart from getting dressed up), it's us guys that have to do all the work and shoulder all the risks.

uhm...kay, well im sorry that the only women you seem to have met seem to have fallen out of the stepford wives, i made the first move with my ex, i paid for our first date, and yeah the dressing up part is fun, but saying that you guys shoulder all the risks, women put more emotionally into a relatsionship form the get go so we have more to lose in the outcome.

anyways back to the original question/statement, i don't see why men have to be confident to be found attractive, i don't find confidence very attractive, as there is a very fine line between confidence and arrogance, and most "confident" guys like to waver on it!

 

[coriander1992]

. Women don't have to pay for anything, as they expect us men to, and don't believe that feminist bullshit that proclaims financial independence from men, because it's always the man who has to pay for everything.
.

See I was going to be good and stay away from this thread, until I read your pathetic little mis-guided bull crap of a comment.

What the hell do you mean women don't pay for anything?
Of course they do!? 8O

Loads of women have jobs...they have to, just like you men.

What about single mothers? They don't have a man to "pay for everything" so how the heck do you think they survive?

For God's sake people, open your eyes will you :?

Some of you are so bitter about your own failures and shortcomings, and far too ignorant to admit it, that you just blame everything on everybody but yourselves to make you feel better.
"Oh my life is so hard, it's ok for them they have it easier"


That's one of the most pathetic posts i've ever read on this forum, and i've read a fair few. :roll:

 

[Sebr3]

With regards to dating, women have it RIDICULOUSLY easy. Women are not the ones who have to make the first move, and put their egos on the line like us guys do. Women don't have to pay for anything, as they expect us men to, and don't believe that feminist bullshit that proclaims financial independence from men, because it's always the man who has to pay for everything.

Basically when it comes to dating, women don't do anything (apart from getting dressed up), it's us guys that have to do all the work and shoulder all the risks.

uhm...kay, well im sorry that the only women you seem to have met seem to have fallen out of the stepford wives, i made the first move with my ex, i paid for our first date, and yeah the dressing up part is fun, but saying that you guys shoulder all the risks, women put more emotionally into a relatsionship form the get go so we have more to lose in the outcome.

anyways back to the original question/statement, i don't see why men have to be confident to be found attractive, i don't find confidence very attractive, as there is a very fine line between confidence and arrogance, and most "confident" guys like to waver on it!

You have made some valid points, but your case is the exception not the rule. In the vast majority of cases, the male always has to initiate first contact with a woman he is interested in. Also, I am glad to hear that you paid for your first date with your "ex", sadly many women, although they won't admit it, still expect the man to pay. And since I always get rejected by women, I don't go out on dates, so I can't comment about the "stepford wives" (I don't watch soapies, they are an insult to my intelligence).

And what men don't invest much of their emotions into a relationship???,are you suggesting that men are not deep,sensitive and and don't have feelings?? Well I hate to tell you this, but men have feelings as well, we just don't express them as much as women do for fear of being labeled weak.

With regards to your comment:

anyways back to the original question/statement, i don't see why men have to be confident to be found attractive, i don't find confidence very attractive, as there is a very fine line between confidence and arrogance, and most "confident" guys like to waver on it!

Again, as a woman you are the exception, not the rule, most people including most women will state that confidence is one of the main attributes that women find attractive in a man, apart from looks,money and status. But I do agree with you, that there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and unfortunately some people think behaving arrogantly is being confident, when it is not. Also much of the confidence people try to project to the outside world is often fake, and not genuine.

And I stand by my comment that men shoulder much of the risks in establishing relationships with women. With some exceptions, it is the man who has to initiate contact (in most cases), and as such he effectively puts his ego on the line each time he approaches a woman he is interested in.