What RELIGION are you?

[Hoth]

Atheist since birth (agnostic parents).

Any outsider looking at any of them can see that gods are cultural developments which show all the fingerprints of human craftsmanship, but I understand how the mythologies evolved to fill a psychological need. It's the old white lies quandry... if people like it, leave them to it until they harm someone (difficult as that is for me, having majored in philosophy and prefering reality over pleasantness for myself). Generally, arguing with the religious only polarizes them as they build a thicker protective layer of faith... it'd be better to just get more people to believe in versions of gods that aren't regressive/evil.

 

[Thelema]

Atheist since birth (agnostic parents).

Any outsider looking at any of them can see that gods are cultural developments which show all the fingerprints of human craftsmanship, but I understand how the mythologies evolved to fill a psychological need. It's the old white lies quandry... if people like it, leave them to it until they harm someone (difficult as that is for me, having majored in philosophy and prefering reality over pleasantness for myself). Generally, arguing with the religious only polarizes them as they build a thicker protective layer of faith... it'd be better to just get more people to believe in versions of gods that aren't regressive/evil.

But don't overlook the fact that even being born and raised as an ahteist, you are still shaped socially by the Christian faith. Christianity is so ingrained in our culture that we've become totally blind to it. Your very idea of self has been shaped by a religion. You can't run away from that...no matter how much of an atheist you believe yourself to be, Christianity has shaped you permanently.

I just thought I'd point that out...blows your mind, huh? Even if you consider yourself completely atheist, your conscious bears the marks of Christianity

 

[Hoth]

But don't overlook the fact that even being born and raised as an ahteist, you are still shaped socially by the Christian faith. Christianity is so ingrained in our culture that we've become totally blind to it. Your very idea of self has been shaped by a religion.

As far as I can see, that conclusion only arises from a religious worldview. Religious people feel religion is controlling society and setting morals et all, because they see religion as an unnatural imposition from above which tames the savages. From the atheistic point of view christianity is a result of culture rather than the cause of it. In case you haven't noticed, the version of christianity practiced in Jamaica or Rwanda is staggeringly different from California. The cultural instantiation of christianity practiced in 500 A.D. is also unlike anything today (we've dropped slavery, given women rights, aren't so worried about witches, etc). The same book is virtually rewritten to fit the cultural context of a time and place, and new sects spring up all the time to fit newer societal demands (Mormons, Scientologists, etc). Religion generally lags behind the rest of culture (and that's part of its purpose, to put a speed bump on change), but it's still dragged along by it in the end.

If you want to argue that culture enslaves people into being totally different from other people then that argument would be more defensible, but I still don't believe it's as radical as you make it sound since people from different cultures are capable of understanding each other in time -- there are a lot of things that, thanks to common genetics, all people have in common. And after all, a culture is just what a lot of people decided they wanted.

As for my idea of self, philosophically speaking it has more in common with Hinduism or Buddhism in that I reject the Cartesian dualism which most people associate with Christianity (even though like most so-called christian philosophy it's rooted in the decidedly heathen Aristotle). Not that I agree with them either, but I certainly like Nagarjuna and Sankara better than Aquinas or Descartes.

In short, I think your culture is so ingrained in christianity that you've mixed up cause and effect.

 

[Idioteque]

I'm an athiest.. I think religions are not only false but harmful to human development and morally skewed. We would be alot better off without them.

 

[Thelema]

But don't overlook the fact that even being born and raised as an ahteist, you are still shaped socially by the Christian faith. Christianity is so ingrained in our culture that we've become totally blind to it. Your very idea of self has been shaped by a religion.

As far as I can see, that conclusion only arises from a religious worldview. Religious people feel religion is controlling society and setting morals et all, because they see religion as an unnatural imposition from above which tames the savages. From the atheistic point of view christianity is a result of culture rather than the cause of it. In case you haven't noticed, the version of christianity practiced in Jamaica or Rwanda is staggeringly different from California. The cultural instantiation of christianity practiced in 500 A.D. is also unlike anything today (we've dropped slavery, given women rights, aren't so worried about witches, etc). The same book is virtually rewritten to fit the cultural context of a time and place, and new sects spring up all the time to fit newer societal demands (Mormons, Scientologists, etc). Religion generally lags behind the rest of culture (and that's part of its purpose, to put a speed bump on change), but it's still dragged along by it in the end.

If you want to argue that culture enslaves people into being totally different from other people then that argument would be more defensible, but I still don't believe it's as radical as you make it sound since people from different cultures are capable of understanding each other in time -- there are a lot of things that, thanks to common genetics, all people have in common. And after all, a culture is just what a lot of people decided they wanted.

As for my idea of self, philosophically speaking it has more in common with Hinduism or Buddhism in that I reject the Cartesian dualism which most people associate with Christianity (even though like most so-called christian philosophy it's rooted in the decidedly heathen Aristotle). Not that I agree with them either, but I certainly like Nagarjuna and Sankara better than Aquinas or Descartes.

In short, I think your culture is so ingrained in christianity that you've mixed up cause and effect.

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. I was only stating the fact that even as an atheist, the American culture is so ingrained with Christianity that it has shaped your consciousness.

Take for instance the fact that everyone in America can give you the outline of the Jesus myth, but will know next to nothing about Islam. Take for instance that even if your parents are atheist, your friends are raised by Christian parents, your parents are friends with Christians. The only way for an American to not be influenced by Christianity would involve an undiscovered tribe of Native Americans living in the mountains somewhere

I'm taking sociology and it's really eye opening to see how culture effects the individual

 

[Artanis]

depending on my mood, I'm one or more of the following:
Atheist, Anti-Theist, "Militant" Atheist (in that I won't politely be silent in a discussion about religion, Militant Atheists don't endorse violence - Militant Atheists simply don't give any religion or superstition a level of respect that it demands but hasn't earned), Rationalist, Sceptic, Secular Humanist, etc.
Most often I describe myself as a Secular Humanist because that philosophy also takes into account any ethical stance questions that may be asked next...

Sometimes I declare that I am a follower of Russel's Interplanetary Teapot, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Cthulhu, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or I declare that if I had to choose an existing non-parody religion I would choose Norse Paganism because they easily have the best version of the afterlife...

 

[Neph]

im definitly not atheist since i beleive in some kind of higher power

makes life somewhat more exciting,

i partially blame the crazy super conservative christian poeple out there, they ruined what religion was meant for and abused it,

i am not against any belief one has since now in this day and age everyone is more free to choose who they want to be. People should stop perstering

 

[Thelema]

depending on my mood, I'm one or more of the following:
Atheist, Anti-Theist, "Militant" Atheist (in that I won't politely be silent in a discussion about religion, Militant Atheists don't endorse violence - Militant Atheists simply don't give any religion or superstition a level of respect that it demands but hasn't earned), Rationalist, Sceptic, Secular Humanist, etc.
Most often I describe myself as a Secular Humanist because that philosophy also takes into account any ethical stance questions that may be asked next...

Sometimes I declare that I am a follower of Russel's Interplanetary Teapot, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Cthulhu, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or I declare that if I had to choose an existing non-parody religion I would choose Norse Paganism because they easily have the best version of the afterlife...

But if you are willing to be so blatant, can you be bothered by Mormons knocking on your door and bothering you? You might say that there is no God and you're just letting people know because you don't want them to believe something that isn't true. But, the Mormons believe you'll go to Hell if you don't believe what they do, so...really...whats the difference?

I think it's strange that atheists act just like religious people

 

[saen]

I'd call myself an Ignostic (The view is that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed.)

 

[Artanis]

But if you are willing to be so blatant, can you be bothered by Mormons knocking on your door and bothering you? You might say that there is no God and you're just letting people know because you don't want them to believe something that isn't true. But, the Mormons believe you'll go to Hell if you don't believe what they do, so...really...whats the difference?

I think it's strange that atheists act just like religious people

If you claim something to be true, then I will evaluate the evidence which supports your claim. If you have no evidence, then I will not accept what you say to be true and I will likely think you a foolish person for believing it so yourself... Simple enough I think...

 

[Jesus]

I'm Jewish.

 

[Thelema]

If you claim something to be true, then I will evaluate the evidence which supports your claim. If you have no evidence, then I will not accept what you say to be true and I will likely think you a foolish person for believing it so yourself... Simple enough I think...

I just think it's strange that Richard Dawkins will say the same sort of things that Anne Coulter does. The same sort of over the top insulting type stuff, not just presenting their opinion. Every Religion talks like it's just abundantly clear that they're right and everyone else is wrong, but that's no excuse to be mean or rude. Atheism is no different

It's one thing to express your opinion when it's warranted and something else to shove it in someone's face.

I don't see how anyone can claim that they're so smart because they believe X and then turn around and act like the people they disagree with.

I'm not picking on you, I'm just talking about what I've noticed.

 

[Andrew]

I am agnostic. I do not know whether there is a God or not. As my knowledge is not infinite, and the subject matter impossible to measure, I have no way of making any kind of decision. My belief is that religions are a scam and that most people probably come to believe in God due to faulty thinking. It is only a belief though and no more valid than anybody else's belief.

 

[dpr]

I think it's strange that atheists act just like religious people

It's true, they really do to a certain extent.

As far as I know, agnosticism is pretty much admitting you don't know if there is a god, whereas atheism is saying you are 100% sure that god does not exist, which is just as dumb as saying you are 100% sure god DOES exist, IMO... How can anyone be 100% sure of anything?

I like Bill Maher and Louis Black. They're funny as hell. But hearing them go on about religion, you'd think they have the ultimate answer. They talk as if they do.

One time, Louis Black went on some rant and said something like, "You christians go on about God but you have no proof. I have proof to back up my case though... fossils!" and then he said, "No matter what your argument is, my answer will always be fossils! Fossils, fossils, fossils! I win!"

I'll admit I found this funny, but all the existence of fossils does is prove that the timeline of our creation in the bible is bullshit. It doesn't really shed any more light on where we came from, if you were to ask yourself (or Louis) any follow-up questions.

"Where do fossils come from?" (Dinosaurs)

"Where did dinosaurs come from?" (Evolution)

"Where did evolution come from" or "Why do we have evolution?" (The Big Bang)

"Where did the Big Bang come from?" or "What caused the Big Bang" (Uhh well we don't know yet, but according to one of about a billion theories, there was this solar nebula...)

"Where did solar nebulas come from?"

It goes on and on, and atheism or any kind of "ism" can't explain how we got here, so I don't really understand the smugness that athetists tend to carry around, as if they know so much more about our creation than christians, buddhists, taoists, etc.

Science is absolute fact until tomorrow.

 

[Thelema]

It's true, they really do to a certain extent.

As far as I know, agnosticism is pretty much admitting you don't know if there is a god, whereas atheism is saying you are 100% sure that god does not exist, which is just as dumb as saying you are 100% sure god DOES exist, IMO... How can anyone be 100% sure of anything?

I like Bill Maher and Louis Black. They're funny as hell. But hearing them go on about religion, you'd think they have the ultimate answer. They talk as if they do.

One time, Louis Black went on some rant and said something like, "You christians go on about God but you have no proof. I have proof to back up my case though... fossils!" and then he said, "No matter what your argument is, my answer will always be fossils! Fossils, fossils, fossils! I win!"

I'll admit I found this funny, but all the existence of fossils does is prove that the timeline of our creation in the bible is bullshit. It doesn't really shed any more light on where we came from, if you were to ask yourself (or Louis) any follow-up questions.

"Where do fossils come from?" (Dinosaurs)

"Where did dinosaurs come from?" (Evolution)

"Where did evolution come from" or "Why do we have evolution?" (The Big Bang)

"Where did the Big Bang come from?" or "What caused the Big Bang" (Uhh well we don't know yet, but according to one of about a billion theories, there was this solar nebula...)

"Where did solar nebulas come from?"

It goes on and on, and atheism or any kind of "ism" can't explain how we got here, so I don't really understand the smugness that athetists tend to carry around, as if they know so much more about our creation than christians, buddhists, taoists, etc.

Science is absolute fact until tomorrow.

We know where we came from as a species, and digging up bones shows us that. Some animals evolved to run fast or camouflage into their surroundings, or even be able to survive in boiling acid...but we evolved these brains and here we are.

I think atheists are willing to say there is no Christian God for sure, just like anyone would say that Anubis doesn't exist for sure...but, I'm not saying that I know what started the big bang or what created all the matter for it...I just don't know, and nobody does.

Atheism isn't some sort of church where we get together and agree upon our beliefs, we're supposed to be the opposite of that. Atheism means you don't believe in God...so its hard to pin us down. You can't just take a broad swipe at people that don't like the color yellow and extrapolate a whole belief system. It's same thing.

 

[bleach]

As far as I know, agnosticism is pretty much admitting you don't know if there is a god, whereas atheism is saying you are 100% sure that god does not exist, which is just as dumb as saying you are 100% sure god DOES exist, IMO... How can anyone be 100% sure of anything?

Under Occam's Razor, I think it is likely an omnipotent, omniscient creator god does not exist, because the universe does not seem to need one to function. I don't know what is so dumb about assuming a negative until I have ANY reason to believe otherwise.

Humans are imaginative, greedy, self-deluded, insecure liars. I believe nothing they say unless they have proof which is logically consistant with the world I can observe. Consider that every religion demands faith without proof and what purpose that serves.

Taoism and Buddhism were conceived as practical philosophies and evolved into religions, mainly because ignorant peasants couldn't conceive of a ethical standard that was created by humans and not handed down by some golden idol. Please don't soil their names further by associating them with the middle eastern death cults, they are from a far greater tradition.

 

[Thelema]

Under Occam's Razor, I think it is likely an omnipotent, omniscient creator god does not exist, because the universe does not seem to need one to function. I don't know what is so dumb about assuming a negative until I have ANY reason to believe otherwise.

Humans are imaginative, greedy, self-deluded, insecure liars. I believe nothing they say unless they have proof which is logically consistant with the world I can observe. Consider that every religion demands faith without proof and what purpose that serves.

Taoism and Buddhism were conceived as practical philosophies and evolved into religions, mainly because ignorant peasants couldn't conceive of a ethical standard that was created by humans and not handed down by some golden idol. Please don't soil their names further by associating them with the middle eastern death cults, they are from a far greater tradition.

Yes, it makes no sense why God would require faith when he has the power to show himself to you right now...I guess your soul isn't important enough for him to simply say "Here I am"

Buddhism started as a religion in which there was no God, but as time passed, it picked up all sorts of deities and a Buddhism God. Ever hear of the primordial Buddha? A self creating all emanating being since the beginning of time. I guess it happens to all religions, they meld together with the old beliefs, but its so sad Buddhism went that way!

 

[bleach]

Buddhism started as a religion in which there was no God, but as time passed, it picked up all sorts of deities and a Buddhism God. Ever hear of the primordial Buddha? A self creating all emanating being since the beginning of time. I guess it happens to all religions, they meld together with the old beliefs, but its so sad Buddhism went that way!

I don't think it's sad, kind of silly that Buddhists have all this quasi-idol worship shit, but the Buddha was also tolerant of folk religions, aside from brahmanism (now Hindusim)-- it was probably his intent to subvert the indigenous beliefs and back-door his philosophy into different cultures. 'Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?' was a great metaphor for Buddhist history which I wonder if anyone ever picked up on.

 

[dpr]

We know where we came from as a species, and digging up bones shows us that. Some animals evolved to run fast or camouflage into their surroundings, or even be able to survive in boiling acid...but we evolved these brains and here we are.

Sounds so simple, but *I* don't know where we came from as a species. Was it natural selection or was it gene mutation? Did homo sapiens evolve "out of Africa" or what it multiregionalism?

Bones offer us a glimpse of an explantion, and at least an alternative theory to creationism, but IMO they don't explain much. There are still way too many unanswered questions and "holes in the story" to claim to believe 100% in evolutionary theory. I'll admit it makes a lot more sense than creationism but as a previous poster pointed out so does the story of Santa Claus. I still cannot tell myself or anyone else that I "believe in" evolutionary theory.

I'm not saying that I know what started the big bang or what created all the matter for it...I just don't know, and nobody does.

Yes that was my only point. Shouldn't atheists (if they ask themselves enough questions) just logically end up at agnosticism? Like I said, a lot of atheists seem to think they have all the answers (God doesn't exist, now everything is wrapped up in a neat little package!), when really their belief system leads to the same dead-end street as many religious belief systems do.

Atheism isn't some sort of church where we get together and agree upon our beliefs, we're supposed to be the opposite of that.

"Supposed to be"... yeah, I guess. Atheism IMO has become more than just a rejection of God and creationism these days. It has become a "religion of doubt" all its own. I think a lot of people use atheism as something to hide behind... something to make themselves feel better about not knowing what happens when you die. I guess my problem with atheism is that there is no alternative theory presented. It's simply "God does not exist." A response that definitely begs a follow-up question... "Okay, then where do you think we came from?"

 

[dpr]

I disagree. Obviously not all atheists are the same, but many simply treat god as they would treat anything they haven't been given good reason to believe in. Religious people have faith, but would laugh at the suggestion of Santa, Flying Spaghetti Monster etc., when IMO they're all the same: no one can prove them either way. If anything, Santa is more plausible than a god (I'm really not taking the piss). It's this anomaly that gets me.

I realize not all atheists are the same. But most of atheism uses logic and facts to back up its beliefs. But really... what do we know? We used to think the Earth was flat. I realize this was quite some time ago, but for a more modern angle: scientists currently think sub-atomic particle-smashing experiments are a good idea! (More to come on that, I guess).

I agree with the Santa thing. But since atheism offers us NO alternative theory to our creation, all you can really say at the end of the day is that "theory A is less likely than theory B."

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well enough. I guess my point is that atheism is just saying "I don't believe." If anyone asks why, the answer is likely to be "Your theory just doesn't seem plausible," which is fair, but then the next question I would follow with would be "Then how did life end up on this planet?"

You could use science to fish for an answer (which leads in all sorts of different, invariably going back to square one) or could simply say, "I don't know." In which case, why wouldn't you call yourself an agnostic?