Trouble believing that I am likeable

[combat]

First off, I'm really happy I found this place. I'm 25, had my first and only "girlfriend" (really in name only) at 16, which lasted about a week or so and never went beyond hand holding before I got dumped. Like many here I was a social outcast in school. Plenty of kids had the time of their lives making fun of me and I could never figure out why. To this day I wonder what the hell it is I did to deserve any of that and I think it is the biggest reason I am so awkwardly shy when it comes to initiating anything with women.

I used to be horribly shy in any social setting whatsoever, but I've been able to work through a lot of that since high school. I have zero problems operating at work, where we interact face to face with strangers all the time. I also have warmed up well to my coworkers, I can make small talk with them, chit chat about the job, etc. Even shooting the breeze with totally random people in a work setting isn't that difficult for me anymore. But at the same time I avoid afterwork get-togethers like the plague, I don't go to parties I get invited to, and I am again skipping the annual Christmas party (never went any previous year either). I did go to a supervisor's promotion party last year as well as a coworker's birthday party, but both times I felt horribly out of place and uncomfortable, mainly just standing or sitting off to the side somewhere. I did chat some with people, but I was exceptionally self-conscious the whole time and really hated it. I never feel that way at work at all, but since parties are more "personal" I guess it just doesn't work for me. I always dread the personal questions about me that inevitably come up at gatherings like that because for some reason a part of me thinks I will be negatively judged by the answers I give. So I just don't bother with it at all.

There's also a girl at work that I like very much (though I actively try not to obsess too much over her or get my hopes up, as I have no illusions whatsoever that she likes me back). I've been getting kind of friendly with her over the past months. She is absolutely gorgeous but is just such a sweetheart that I gradually felt less and less intimidated by her. She's also kind of quiet/shy herself, which also helps me feel more comfortable with her. She had me figured out right off the bat the first time we ever talked when she said that I must be a quiet type like herself that don't talk much to people we don't know. So a few weeks ago during a longer conversation she asked me if I have a girlfriend which got us to talking about how neither of us has much luck with relationships (no, I did not reveal that I have zero dating experience whatsoever, I kept things just as vague as she did). We've also been getting a little flirty (and I do mean "a little," I'm sure it isn't much by most non-socially inept people's standards) with each other... ie. little comments here and there when we see each other, pushing or lightly kicking when we run into each other. This is something she actually initiated (she just came up to me one day, kicked me in my boot, smiled and said "I don't know why I felt like kicking you" - I would have never dared getting physical with my flirting if she hadn't initiated it, but I'm happy she did because it's fun).

Before anyone warns me not to read too much into any of this, believe me, I've been let down way too many times in the past to start thinking that this means anything. I can't even imagine her liking me at all, but I guess logic dictates that she does on some very basic level. I know she respects me on a professional level because she has said it several times. But professional respect and being liked as a person are two different things as well.

I feel fairly comfortable around her and talking to her (which is not normal for me at all, especially not with a gorgeous girl, so it's a nice feeling), but I am practically petrified of trying to move things to another level (even if it's just a friendship level). I can talk to her (we don't see each other every day or anything but when we do we usually chat for a bit), text message, and Facebook poke her (every now and then, I am not obsessive about any of it), but I am scared to death of asking her even to just hang out and play video games or something along those lines. I know I shouldn't feel this way, but there is an emotional wall inside of me that makes me strongly suspect that she is only friendly toward me to be "nice" (as in she actually dislikes me but is too nice to show it) and that there is no reason whatsoever that she would ever want to hang out with me. Rationally I know this probably isn't the case, but I can't get rid of this nagging feeling and it stops me from doing anything.

 

[Why]

seems like you two are liking each other

I SAY GO FOR IT

SHE teases u and touches u for a reason...

one day at work, start talkin about how hungry or thirsty you are and ask if she would like to come wit u to go eat or drink

 

[hydrapower]

Yikes! Well first of all, I have been at the place where you are at, uncomfortable with big group social situations, wondering if anyone actually likes me at all etc. I would say with regards to the parties, try to at least go for a little while and maybe have a couple of drinks to loosen up a little (NOT get drunk and make a fool of yourself). If you're off being quiet by yourself no one is really going to notice as they are all probably too busy mingling/drinking/partying to be "judging" you.

And this girl, it sounds like you have made a good friend. In my experience, people who "dislike you but are just being nice" give off specific body language, such as short, terse answers, looking around for an escape, smiling uncomfortably, and politely excusing themselves from the conversation quickly. She's not doing that, so it's clear to me that she also likes you as a friend. You said, she is quiet/shy too so I would say there is a good chance that she is wondering if she is likeable or annoying as well. If she thought that out loud I know you'd say "of course I like you! you're great/smart/funny/pretty etc.!" It can be scary but trust her actions at face value instead of looking for hidden motivations (hard, I know).

However, I would be extremely extremely cautious about trying to date a coworker. It can get extremely messy and uncomfortable. Her "flirting" might be just that she has a comfort level with you and can do that kind of touching, etc. I would say don't try to date her.

So maybe try this. You don't want to go to the office party because you're uncomfortable and alone. You want to hang out with your friend outside of the typical work day. So just say something "hey the party's coming up, will you hang out with me there for a while?" It's not a "date" or anything, just two friends hanging out in a social setting. I bet you'll have a better time than you would going alone.

Keep listening to your rational side, the side that says "I'm likable, our friendship is growing, people aren't actively judging me all the time, etc." Keep "faking it until you make it". Good luck.

 

[Krista]

Coming from a girl's perspective, she is flirting with you no matter how sly or casual it seems. You're right not to put all your hopes into this but that doesn't mean you can't relax a tad and enjoy the attention she's giving you. It's really very hard to push past the boudaries and thoughts you have in your head when it comes to other people liking you. Sometimes it seems like the hardest thing in the world to do actually. I'm constantly fighting battles with myself when it comes to people showing an interest in me because it doesn't feel right to me, you think they're just being nice because they don't want to be rude, which is how I assume you're feeling? Logically you know that these signs mean she's interested in you on some level but you can't get that past the nagging doubts in your head. Don't rush into things but take your time and see where things go. There's no reason why you can't continue on this path and eventually one of you(more than likely her since she seems to be the aggressor or initiator) will bring up the subject of maybe going out to do something. When this does happen just remember not to freeze up although that's hard. You'll be scared, maybe thinking or wondering why she's doing this but it'll just validate that she does actually like you. Just take the flirting gestures she gives you as a positive thing instead of looking for the hidden actions behind them because there aren't any. That's just how we think.

 

[combat]

=However, I would be extremely extremely cautious about trying to date a coworker. It can get extremely messy and uncomfortable. Her "flirting" might be just that she has a comfort level with you and can do that kind of touching, etc. I would say don't try to date her.

I know. This is good advice and I'll be following it. I was tending toward thinking this anyway, but it's good to hear it from someone else. I would really like nothing more than to date her, but I'd rather just get to know her as a friend than ruin everything and make things awkward. I don't really have many good friends and I have no female friends, so the more the merrier. It also takes away a lot of pressure (though not nearly all of it).

So maybe try this. You don't want to go to the office party because you're uncomfortable and alone. You want to hang out with your friend outside of the typical work day. So just say something "hey the party's coming up, will you hang out with me there for a while?" It's not a "date" or anything, just two friends hanging out in a social setting. I bet you'll have a better time than you would going alone.

I appreciate the idea but I've missed the boat on this already. I would have had to put in a request to have the shift off a week ago at the latest to be able to go. I also really feel like I would be doubly uncomfortable having her around when I'm at something like that because not only would I be dealing with being in a situation I hate as it is, I'd then have her there as well to observe and judge me (yeah, yeah, she probably wouldn't judge me at all, but I would feel like she was anyway and I think I'd have a horrible time because of that).

Keep listening to your rational side, the side that says "I'm likable, our friendship is growing, people aren't actively judging me all the time, etc." Keep "faking it until you make it". Good luck.

Thanks . I tend to be a fighter in life, so I'll definitely keep working on this.

 

[combat]

I'm constantly fighting battles with myself when it comes to people showing an interest in me because it doesn't feel right to me, you think they're just being nice because they don't want to be rude, which is how I assume you're feeling? Logically you know that these signs mean she's interested in you on some level but you can't get that past the nagging doubts in your head.

This is exactly how I feel about this. And even though I want nothing more than to just get to know her better on a personal level, there is something that really terrifies me about the idea of her getting to know me better because I find it hard to believe that she will keep liking what she sees. As in right now I figure that maybe she thinks she likes me (at least at a friend level) but that if she really knew me she wouldn't like me anymore. It's hard to describe but does that make sense?

As a little kid I used to be very honest and open about answering other kids' questions about myself (about things I liked or whatever) and most of it ended up getting used against me. So I think that because of that most of my life I've been very uncomfortable about disclosing anything personal about myself... I frequently even hate answering questions like what my favorite movie or book is, or what kind of music I like to listen to, which is pretty ridiculous.

 

[mrb]

hmm well if it was me id just ask her out on a date ..... whats the worst that can happen ..... bet she says yes take her to to pictures or something , she likes you mate but take it slow let her make the first move , if she never makes a move and wants you for a freind ...... well thats ok as well nice to have a female freind

 

[hydrapower]

This is exactly how I feel about this. And even though I want nothing more than to just get to know her better on a personal level, there is something that really terrifies me about the idea of her getting to know me better because I find it hard to believe that she will keep liking what she sees. As in right now I figure that maybe she thinks she likes me (at least at a friend level) but that if she really knew me she wouldn't like me anymore. It's hard to describe but does that make sense?

It does but I think you're being your own worst enemy here. She is already proving that she likes you and trusts you (she's given you her cell phone #, facebook friendship, and is willing to seek you and talk to you rather than just whatever incidental contact comes up). She probably does not think you are this perfect guy and your fear that as soon as some less-than-ideal quality or history surfaces that it will shatter her illusion and she'll run off to find some better friend. Everyone has insecurities and regrets, including her. And worst-case, let's say she DID do that, well, that says a lot more about HER as a person than it does about YOU. I can understand where you're coming from, especially in light of what you say here:

As a little kid I used to be very honest and open about answering other kids' questions about myself (about things I liked or whatever) and most of it ended up getting used against me. So I think that because of that most of my life I've been very uncomfortable about disclosing anything personal about myself... I frequently even hate answering questions like what my favorite movie or book is, or what kind of music I like to listen to, which is pretty ridiculous.

Yeah, well, little kids are toxic and cruel, and school is often torture (been there). But you're adults now. If somebody is going to be like that then you need to cut them out of your lives because they are manipulative and mean. It's not your problem, it's theirs. That doesn't sound like this girl, she sounds like a really nice person and I think you're on the road to a great friendship.

Think about it, maybe you guys will be friends forever. Crazy, right? But entirely possible. Over time you might end up revealing more and more to each other, have shared experiences (hanging out together etc.) and will gradually grow to trust and care about each other as true friends. Or maybe it stays mostly incidental at work and once one of you move on you drift apart. Or maybe she is the manipulative whackjob, but I highly doubt that one. The thing is, if you want the first option (the true friendship) it takes effort, and a little risk. You have to put yourself out there for somebody else and hope they reciprocate. It's scary, but so rewarding when it works out. So don't assume the worst about her, trust her and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Krista]

This is exactly how I feel about this. And even though I want nothing more than to just get to know her better on a personal level, there is something that really terrifies me about the idea of her getting to know me better because I find it hard to believe that she will keep liking what she sees. As in right now I figure that maybe she thinks she likes me (at least at a friend level) but that if she really knew me she wouldn't like me anymore. It's hard to describe but does that make sense?

As a little kid I used to be very honest and open about answering other kids' questions about myself (about things I liked or whatever) and most of it ended up getting used against me. So I think that because of that most of my life I've been very uncomfortable about disclosing anything personal about myself... I frequently even hate answering questions like what my favorite movie or book is, or what kind of music I like to listen to, which is pretty ridiculous.

That does make perfect sense. I am a very private person as well not only because I don't really like sharing things with everyone on that level but because sometimes I feel I'll be criticized for what I find interesting. But that's just my own doubts about myself. I think I get what you mean though, when guys like me they usually start out as friends and that's how they know me. A little shy but if I can get on a level of comfort with you then I'm an enjoyable person to hang around but when it comes to moving past friendship I freeze. This means they won't be seeing me as just the friend but as something more and that scares me. That means being intimate not sexually but honestly. They'll start asking questions like any potention boy/girlfriend will and what am I suppose to tell them? Once they really get to know me I'm afraid they aren't going to be satisfied with me.

If she does move past friends and isn't interested you have to start learning to retrain yourself to think that "It's not me, we just weren't compatible". If we took every rejection so hardly(like I do sometimes) then we'll start losing opprotunities because we think we already know what they outcome will be. She might go for you or she might not and if she doesn't that means there is someone twice as better who will understand you twice as more.

 

[combat]

The thing is, if you want the first option (the true friendship) it takes effort, and a little risk. You have to put yourself out there for somebody else and hope they reciprocate. It's scary, but so rewarding when it works out. So don't assume the worst about her, trust her and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'll try and see what happens. Thanks for the encouragement, it definitely helps.

 

[combat]

They'll start asking questions like any potention boy/girlfriend will and what am I suppose to tell them? Once they really get to know me I'm afraid they aren't going to be satisfied with me.

Yup. That sums it up perfectly.

If she does move past friends and isn't interested you have to start learning to retrain yourself to think that "It's not me, we just weren't compatible". If we took every rejection so hardly(like I do sometimes) then we'll start losing opprotunities because we think we already know what they outcome will be. She might go for you or she might not and if she doesn't that means there is someone twice as better who will understand you twice as more.

I know. But I can tell myself "it's not me, we just weren't compatible" a hundred times and logically know it to be true, but deep down I still feel like it's something I did or that there is something wrong with me that caused the rejection. So mostly I just avoid it altogether.

But anyway, I will fight myself, try to take on a little risk with her, put myself out there and see what happens. Thanks for your detailed responses, it really helps a lot to know that there are others out there who actually understand and battle these same problems. It makes me feel a little less alone in the world.

 

[combat]

Well... wow... so she texted me while I was at work from the Xmas party asking me if I was going. And when I said I wasn't she basically (playfully) told me to stop avoiding the parties. And here I didn't think anyone was even noticing that I never go to any. Again, I'm not going to read too much into it but... with this and the (corny but fun) FB hugging the day before (yeah yeah she probably sent 'em to 100 people but whatever)... I almost feel kind of liked. ::

And we might actually hang out soon. Not 1 on 1 just yet but with another friend. This made it easier to ask since it's a no pressure "hey want to join us" type thing (I was still pathetically nervous to even txt the invite but I figured I have to do something eventually). I won't quite believe it until it happens but still... I'm feeling kind of good about this right now.

 

[Avarak]

If I were you I'd ask her to dinner after work one day. I know it's extremely hard to get up the courage to ask her that, I have experience with it myself. But hey, if you really want to be friends with her or date her then you can't be scared to ask her to do things with you.

 

[combat]

If I were you I'd ask her to dinner after work one day. I know it's extremely hard to get up the courage to ask her that, I have experience with it myself. But hey, if you really want to be friends with her or date her then you can't be scared to ask her to do things with you.

We have some things planned now actually. Not dinner but better than that... to me at least, less formal and more fun stuff... seeing a movie and some other activities (and she basically suggested the whole thing, too). Like I said earlier, I'm not going to push the dating thing. If something develops, then I won't be one to turn down the chance at making this into something more, but I'm also not going to put on any pressure. Whatever happens, happens.

 

[Weirdo]

You're such a lucky man to have met a girl like this...gorgeous, shy, likes shy guys and to top it all off, she is the initiator of everything...it's almost too good to be true, tbh. I'd feel a little paranoid about her intentions too but ultimately I'd go for it.

 

[combat]

You're such a lucky man to have met a girl like this...gorgeous, shy, likes shy guys and to top it all off, she is the initiator of everything...

I know. But giving myself just a little credit here, she wasn't quite the initiator of everything. I asked her first to hang out and we were supposed to do that today but something came up on her end. Pessimist that I am I started to think it was just an excuse because she didn't really want to, but then she suggested another day (a couple of weeks from now... we are on different shift schedules so coordination is a bit of an issue) and to top it off wants to make what would have been at most a 2-3 hour thing (what we had planned today) into practically an all-day hang out. I really don't know that she likes me the way I like her, but that idea literally came out of nowhere. It's like she read my mind or something because it's what I wanted but was way too afraid to ask... I would have been content with a couple of hours and calling it a day.

(And just to clarify, this will be with a mutual friend so it's not exactly 1 on 1, but he's going to most likely bring along his girlfriend so it'll kind of even things out nicely.)

it's almost too good to be true, tbh. I'd feel a little paranoid about her intentions too but ultimately I'd go for it.

Yeah, tell me about it. This is all very new for me. I am happy but absolutely bloody terrified at the same time. Right now I am just assuming that her intentions are to be friends. I just can't bring myself to believe there's more to it which is why I'm not trying to date her. I'll just let it play out and if it naturally progresses into something more I certainly won't run away from it.

 

[Why]

im jealous.. i hope you two end up together

 

[Honk]

im jealous.. i hope you two end up together

I second that.

 

[combat]

Thanks for the support, much appreciated...

You guys are killin' me with this ending up together stuff though... it sure would be a nice outcome, but I still keep second guessing this whole thing. I just can't see why this girl would like me as more than friends. But anyway, I guess I'll just see what happens when we hang out after New Year's. I'm trying not to get my hopes up though, I am so tired of the inevitable disappointment. The positive is that I don't think I'm giving off the "trying too hard" vibe which I think I have with others in the past. I don't feel the need to seek her approval and I don't feel like she judges me by every word I utter, which is nice...

I can't wait to hang out and actually get to know her better, I just really hope I don't find some way to f*** it all up. I suck so bad at this... but I suppose there's no time like the present to start learning by doing. I'll just play things by ear and of course I'll keep whoever cares posted via this thread.

 

[Jake123]

Well, not everyone is likeable. If they were the world would be a big happy family. A horrible serial killer could come on this forum and say he has low self esteem and thinks he's unlikeable and everyone would jump to say he's not, but the truth is some people really just are unlikeable and not everyone deserves to feel good about themselves. Sometimes it's justified. (Being realistic)
But of course, since one man's trash is another man's treasure, there's always someone who will like even the most unlikeable of people.