The illusion of seperateness

[gustavofring]

True, and I know this. Recently I was broke for a week and a half or so until my first salary came in, and I had to survive on potatoes for a while, while still having to go to work and function normally. I felt horrible. We humans are bio-chemical beings and our bodies have needs. I became more unconcious because of the stress it brought on. But even here, I got a lot of help out of taking a bit of time to create presence and not being sick of the stream of thoughts/worries/stress created in the head.

Of course, you know, you'd have to be some enlightened being to ignore physical pain and hunger/cold, it's impossible to ask that of yourself. But that's not really what this is about.

 

[sullyS25]

So this theory is good for people whose basic life needs have been met and they have the luxury to think about someting more. I mean it is easy to philosophize for people who are safe and warm, or at least on a reasonable level. But if you lost all that and found yourself having to fight for life, would your theory still be helping or even interesting you?

I disagree. I know where you are coming from and I see how that could apply too but I came across this "theory" when I was detoxing from serious drug withdrawal. I was addicted to drugs that were very strong and I was killing myself slowly every day. When I went to rehab and before I was ready to die and didnt care about anything. I was severely depressed.

Then, I read this book that has these ideas and my perspective on life changed 100%. When I came into rehab I was apathetic and hated life, and had now hope or anything. Then I read this particular book and have been sober for 2.5 years since because it showed me another way of viewing the world.

I realize that I still had the basic needs like food, shelter and water but I was emotionally bankrupt and this "philosophy" gave me hope. I dont refer to it as a philosophy but as spirituality but thats just me.

I would like to also add that when people that dont have the bare necessities in life like you mentioned, often times they do seek spirituality and/or religion to help them get through the suffering. Just go to the ghetto in Las Angeles and count all the churches you see. A lot of impoverished areas around the world follow this pattern. They may not seem like they have hope in the world but a lot of them find it through believing in a power greater than themselves. I dont care what spirituality/religion it is, they seek some way of understanding the world they are in and they do it with philosophies similar to this. Philosophies that give their lives meanings.

 

[Lea]

I am not even saying what Gustavofring says is untrue. I suppose there is much more behind our limited human perspective, and at some level all humans are one etc. What I meant to say is, that I know my possiblities by now and know that I will probably never be able to step over my shadow. I am a material being limited by primitive urges and know I am capable only of doing that much in this world. I´d like to believe that I am in fact omnipotent or that if I believe I will transcend every difficulty. I have maybe even tried, but the obstacles of this material world keep hitting me all the time so heavily, always reminding me how miserable creature I am. If you read my signature, I like the philosophy of that man, I have read almost all of his books and he wrote so many, I have piles of them at home. Including both parts of Hidden Teaching Beyond Yoga, which is quite difficult but I found it interessant. I also had ayahuascas blowing my brain out of the body.. but in the end there is never a magical solution, on the contrary as life proceeds, I still more and more realize my limitations and disability. So nothing wrong with spiritual teachnigs, but I don´t think I will be ever able to use them to change my life. At times I was also thinking about this..what if I started to practice spirituality and became good at it. How can it make me more mature, when in real life I am such an idiot? Wouldn´t I just become a weirdo? Shouldn´t I rather attempt to overcome my life disabilities, educate myself, cultivate my personality? Or if a person who is good at heart is spiritual, that´s what I am but that doesn´t help the fact that otherwise I have many faults. I have SA, am not particullary clever or creative etc. - there are so many others who are better than me. I still believe being good and honest if very important, although I know most others don´t and that´s why they have advantage to better survive in this world. I have read somewhere that a failure in this society is in fact a victory, I guess there is something about it. Or you don´t have to necessarily fail, but probably good people have it harder. Yet still I believe in being good, although it is contrary to survival in material world. So am I not also a bit spiritual? And what about those spiritual or religious people who steal and lie? Isn´t spirituality just being mature in all aspects, in brain and heart, having the courage to face this material world and not only being an escapist?

 

[gustavofring]

Shouldn´t I rather attempt to overcome my life disabilities, educate myself, cultivate my personality?

Why would one rule out the other? Do we suddenly not have the ability to think or be motivated anymore when we are practicing spirituality? :question:

In my opinion people ironically overrate spirituality a bit too much and overcomplicate it, turn it into a concept, a state that must be reached, or something that is a big effort and that they now will only sit under a tree all day trying to become enlightened. This of course goes against the true meaning of spirituality , though there are a lot of people (even those who claim to be in the spiritual profession) who fall into the mind-trap and make it into that and they start getting problematic with it. Tolle has some good things to say about this paradoxical dilemma.

Really, it could be as simple as taking a few moments a day stepping out of the stream of thought and relaxing the mind and being in touch with "being". It's simple things to make us more peaceful and thus possibly more productive and less anxious and stressed. I like to be reminded of the K.I.S.S. rule (Keep It Simple Stupid). We are already enlightened and complete right now, we just can't see it because of our thought and ego.

Again, I understand your position, and I respect your views. Everyone should of course decide for themselves what their view of the world is, and if it doesn't work for you that's fine. There's no wrong or right here.

What I meant to say is, that I know my possiblities by now and know that I will probably never be able to step over my shadow. I am a material being limited by primitive urges and know I am capable only of doing that much in this world.

I think this is quite a spiritual and ego-less thing to say, it is acceptance of things how they are and acknowledging the limitations and sufferings of life.

 

[MollyBeGood]

I don't know how to quote a persons post on here-sorry..But I like what is said here^ above about finding time everyday to be at peace with yourself and be present.

That is where it all began to make sense to me. Dropping all the wants of future, regrets of past and just being in the moment if you can just do that then you are really on your way to becoming at peace more in every aspect of your existence here. Just sit and be with out thought-give your mind a break from all of it and just BE. That was freedom Is freedom from all the entrapment of thoughts. Letting go of thoughts is bliss. Being caught up in all the mental cages whatever they may be is jail and can become hell if you let it. That is so much so for those who live in their heads 24/7 like most people here.

Keep it simple-yes. Just be. Drop the constant mind chatter about jobs and relationships and fears and sadness and just be. Don't be ruled by time. Don't be a prisoner to your incessant thought dribble. If you can do that for even 2 mins a day it makes your life a much more beautiful peaceful place to be.

Sometimes I do feel having experimented with psychedelics helped me get to this place-a place without boundaries and with out time. I feel like if I can get there more often, like through meditation too, I could handle anything life throws at me.

I know what it's like to suffer, thought I know too that it has been necessary for me to suffer...not done yet either...h:

 

[skins]

wow i can't believe i missed this thread...such an enlightened and elegant post, i couldn't have described the way this universe operates any better then this, qudos to you sir..the thread of the year!

 

[Dreamseller]

Lately I've been listening to many great speakers on religion, morality and philosophy. I find these subjects to be the most interesting, as they are essentially what makes us human. From my time spent researching in this field, I've come to the conclusion that it can be summed up in just 3 words.

Perception is everything.

The slightest change in your perception of life can have the largest of effects and it essentially dictates your state of mind, your emotions and dare I say it, your actions.

I just wish I was a more articulate writer or artist so I could express myself more clearly, as the exchange of knowledge is the only way in which we can gain insight into how other people perceive the world, allowing us to alter our own perception.

 

[coyote]

Perception is everything.

The slightest change in your perception of life can have the largest of effects and it essentially dictates your state of mind, your emotions and dare I say it, your actions.

i think this is true as well

and the most exciting think is that we have the power to change our perception

 

[Dreamseller]

Unfortunately I cannot alter my perception "manually" for more than a few hours. Whether that's lack of motivation or something else, I don't know.

 

[gustavofring]

Lately I've been listening to many great speakers on religion, morality and philosophy. I find these subjects to be the most interesting, as they are essentially what makes us human. From my time spent researching in this field, I've come to the conclusion that it can be summed up in just 3 words.

Perception is everything.

Yes. This is true.

I watched some program about a "street coach" the other day who was coaching Moroccan youth that have gone "off the rails" in the Netherlands. The youth complained about the Dutch people giving them stares of disdain, but the coach very accurately said that a lot is up to interpretation. A look could be completely misinterpreted and create an image/a fiction. Also he said, if those people really are racist, would you want to sink to their level and be like them as well? I thought it was quite inspiring.