Society Standards - Dating

[shore_of_glass]

I've been lurking around this forum and found some posts like "have you ever dated anyone?" or "How do I ask her out", stuff like that. And it got me wondering....

"I see her. There she is... with her friends... Should I ask her out? How should I do it? Oh no... I can't..... Dammit, what's the worse that can happen? Her saying "sorry, no", right? Nothing I can't handle, let's grow some balls!"

She says yes. What then? Dating. Wtf is dating?

I just.... feel like society tells us "Look! This is dating! Now go do it out there!" Everyone seems the same.... It's like there are rules for getting to know another person.

As for myself, I hate the general idea of what "dating" is.


And I seem to have forgotten what I was saying next, so just discuss this, I'll keep posting.

 

[klytus]

Dating is what you make of it. It has nothing to do with what society may expect. Two people do whatever they want to do. If it's having wild sex the first time they meet up, then this is it - regardless of what society deems proper behavior. Of course, there are the classics of dating, the most common activities, but there is no rule whatsoever that tells you not to deviate from the traditional path.

The "general idea" of dating is to place two people in a comfortable environment, a setting within which they can open themselves up to each other. The sole purpose is to get to know the other person closer. Shared experiences have a bonding effect. The more you do with somebody else, provided it's a pleasant experience, the more you want to be together with that particular person. Dating is certainly a "shared experience" and can be very rewarding.

 

[this_portrait]

Society's dating standards make me highly uncomfortable. I've only dated two guys in my entire 20 years so far, but with both guys, I felt like I was forcing myself to like them, especially with the first one, who seemed to act as if he was smitten with me after only two dates and less than a month of knowing me.

Personally, I would prefer to be friends first, hence why I changed my dating site profiles around. It has decreased the amount of messages I get, which kind of disappoints me, but at least it helps to narrow the options down.

I also feel like people take dating too serious, when they hardly even know the person. If you ask me, I think that, if you've known the person for more than six months or for years, then you probably have every right to take dating them serious. At least, that's how I see it. I can't attach myself to someone I have no feelings for besides maybe some physical attraction. Physical attraction isn't enough. I don't care if dating them would get me some experience; I'm not leading someone on and being in a relationship with them when I feel nothing for them.

Sadly, I'm finding that most people (or in my case, most guys) don't seem to want to be friends first. If they did, I would still be getting the same amount of messages I was getting before I changed my profile to say I was looking for friends. I keep waiting patiently, though, hoping that I'll find someone who wants me as a friend first instead of hoping to just get me as a g/f or a f*ck.

 

[userremoved]

Sadly, I'm finding that most people (or in my case, most guys) don't seem to want to be friends first. If they did, I would still be getting the same amount of messages I was getting before I changed my profile to say I was looking for friends. I keep waiting patiently, though, hoping that I'll find someone who wants me as a friend first instead of hoping to just get me as a g/f or a f*ck.

Well one thing I've learned from a lot of guys is that they've got a belief that once you become friends with a girl, it's impossible for the relationship to progress any further than that. I've actually had this happen before, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say that not all women have that mentality. I don't like the idea of dating myself because of the pressure to perform but the society as a whole is in such a hurry to find that "soul mate" that taking things slowly just doesn't seem to happen. Even people without SA frequently talk about the fear of being alone for the rest of their lives so they're anxious to make things happen and happen now. There's way too much misinformation between the two sexes and only honest communication is going to solve this.

 

[shore_of_glass]

I wouldn't mind having a friend and then let it evolve to a more serious relationship, but what seems to happen is that men "state their buisness" at first sight and women seem to agree with that.

concerning the dating matter, yes klytus, that makes perfect sense, sharing experiences and creating bonds. I guess its just SA talking in my posts -.-

 

[Aphrodyte]

I think the problem that most guys have with dating, and especially guys on this site, is something similar to what shore of glass said above me - the guys are expected to make the first move. I know from personal experience that this is incredibly hard to do, out of fear of rejection, and everyone seems think "I'm the only guy who gets nervous about it." Truth is that many guys are incredibly nervous about asking a girl out, but they go through it anyway. (I have no idea how, but they do!)

 

[userremoved]

Maybe they can go through with it because they've gotten used to the rejection. Some of the guys I used to hang out with were constantly getting shut down by women but they just let it roll off them somehow and moved on to the next one. Or maybe their fear of being alone is stronger than their fear of rejection. I dunno I'm just as lost as you on this one lol.

 

[klytus]

It doesn't make much sense to fear rejection. If there is a significant possibility that she will reject your advances, why would you ask her out or try getting closer to her anyway? Then it is clear that there is no foundation upon which you can build a romantic relationship.

However, if you have good conversations, notice that she seems interested in you, never or seldom says 'no' to spending time with you and generally have fun together, then the likeliness of her rejecting you is quite slim, unless, of course, she was playing you for some deeper reason. But you can't always have what you want.

 

[userremoved]

Of course that fear doesn't make any sense, but I've still been unable to use logic to rationalize it out of my head. People probably wouldn't have this fear in the first place if it were not for the fact that we learned to base our self image off of what other people say to us. Most normal people when they get rejected, probably only think to themselves "Oh, I'm just not her type. Time to move on then." But in my ass backwards mind if I get the answer no I hear "You're too ugly, too scrawny, your car sucks, you have no money" and so on. Excuse me if I sound whiny right now, but this crap makes me so angry and I needed to vent a little. I don't even know where to begin fixing this.

 

[klytus]

The only difference between your reaction and others' reactions is that you make the reasons why you are not her "type" explicit. While others say "I am not her type" you elaborate what there is exactly wrong with you that she doesn't like. Of course, it's because you are "too <whatever>" for her. However, does it matter in the end? You didn't get her. The actual reasons why are eventually immaterial.

 

[userremoved]

Yes, it does matter. If you find yourself doubting what good you could actually bring into someone else's life in a relationship, then you start to doubt if a relationship is even possible. Which would in the end to cause you to try less. Confidence in your own value as a human being is very important. I'm sure you must have something that you pride yourself on that keeps you from just falling into a pit of despair.

 

[Nicholas]

I wouldn't mind having a friend and then let it evolve to a more serious relationship, but what seems to happen is that men "state their buisness" at first sight and women seem to agree with that.

That's what I think too, and it bothers me to see not many people see dating the same way as I do.
Dating is so stupid. Dating is "Let's try to see if this girl can be my girlfriend". What? How do you know you want her to be your girlfriend? Don't you need to know her better first? Don't you need to be friends first?
Plus, on dates, you even need to try to impress her, because you don't have much time. You need to advertise yourself and make no mistakes... everything is based on first impression. How stupid.
Before I need a girlfriend, I need a friend.

 

[illuminationSP]

I hate society and I hate its standards. I never got the whole "dinner and a movie, pick you up at 8" thing.

 

[2ate]

I have been on a few dates in my life but it's nothing to write home about.

Dating and relationships are overrated. Society says you should have this and that. Be married at age 30 with a nice house, car, kids etc...But I don't know why they even concern each individuals with this stuff. It's great if a person wants to get married and all but don't try to persuade other people who don't agree with it to join the family forming stuff.

As far as the ritual of dating itself. Yuck. I like my life the way it is. I don't like the idea of going out of my way and get together with someone to go through this superficial ritual of courting, wining and dining, and all of that BS.

Hypothetical example: A girl likes me. She stares at me. She wants me to acknowledge her existence. Then she wants me to ask her out by acting a certain way (eye contact, hair twirling etc...). So I ask her out. I meet her at 8 or whatever. She looks great. Makeup, nice dress, etc....We have dinner and a movie. Then we converse, laugh, and share about our goals, dreams etc...

Then it is a pivotal point. Will you get a second date? If no. Then it's no. I have taken a night out of my life for a pretender.

If yes, repeat process again. Then again. Then ultimately she will decide your status. BF material or not? This part irks me. So I have wasted time of my life to prove myself to another human being (with flaws and all) and expect her judgement of me to be deciding if I am fit to reproduce with her. If she stops going out with you then you are not for her.

So I am out of luck. I have to find another girl and start the courting process over again. So I let a person in my life. Let her waste my time and she leaves and pretends I don't exist. What the hell is this?

A girl's judgment IMO should be taken lightly. Girls or people in general tend to make decisions based on how they "feel." Their decisions are not always the wisest and their perception of you is hardly objective at all. The only person objective is god himself. I am not religious but no one on earth will ever give an objective judgment other than god.

so....rejection is nothing. Dating is a stupid ritual indoctrined in our heads. And you can certainly live on without a BF or GF.

 

[userremoved]

I have been on a few dates in my life but it's nothing to write home about.

Dating and relationships are overrated. Society says you should have this and that. Be married at age 30 with a nice house, car, kids etc...But I don't know why they even concern each individuals with this stuff. It's great if a person wants to get married and all but don't try to persuade other people who don't agree with it to join the family forming stuff.

As far as the ritual of dating itself. Yuck. I like my life the way it is. I don't like the idea of going out of my way and get together with someone to go through this superficial ritual of courting, wining and dining, and all of that BS.

Hypothetical example: A girl likes me. She stares at me. She wants me to acknowledge her existence. Then she wants me to ask her out by acting a certain way (eye contact, hair twirling etc...). So I ask her out. I meet her at 8 or whatever. She looks great. Makeup, nice dress, etc....We have dinner and a movie. Then we converse, laugh, and share about our goals, dreams etc...

Then it is a pivotal point. Will you get a second date? If no. Then it's no. I have taken a night out of my life for a pretender.

If yes, repeat process again. Then again. Then ultimately she will decide your status. BF material or not? This part irks me. So I have wasted time of my life to prove myself to another human being (with flaws and all) and expect her judgement of me to be deciding if I am fit to reproduce with her. If she stops going out with you then you are not for her.

So I am out of luck. I have to find another girl and start the courting process over again. So I let a person in my life. Let her waste my time and she leaves and pretends I don't exist. What the hell is this?

A girl's judgment IMO should be taken lightly. Girls or people in general tend to make decisions based on how they "feel." Their decisions are not always the wisest and their perception of you is hardly objective at all. The only person objective is god himself. I am not religious but no one on earth will ever give an objective judgment other than god.

so....rejection is nothing. Dating is a stupid ritual indoctrined in our heads. And you can certainly live on without a BF or GF.

I appreciate the insight. I actually feel a lot better about this now.

 

[lurknomore]

I have been on a few dates in my life but it's nothing to write home about.

Dating and relationships are overrated. Society says you should have this and that. Be married at age 30 with a nice house, car, kids etc...But I don't know why they even concern each individuals with this stuff. It's great if a person wants to get married and all but don't try to persuade other people who don't agree with it to join the family forming stuff.

As far as the ritual of dating itself. Yuck. I like my life the way it is. I don't like the idea of going out of my way and get together with someone to go through this superficial ritual of courting, wining and dining, and all of that BS.

Hypothetical example: A girl likes me. She stares at me. She wants me to acknowledge her existence. Then she wants me to ask her out by acting a certain way (eye contact, hair twirling etc...). So I ask her out. I meet her at 8 or whatever. She looks great. Makeup, nice dress, etc....We have dinner and a movie. Then we converse, laugh, and share about our goals, dreams etc...

Then it is a pivotal point. Will you get a second date? If no. Then it's no. I have taken a night out of my life for a pretender.

If yes, repeat process again. Then again. Then ultimately she will decide your status. BF material or not? This part irks me. So I have wasted time of my life to prove myself to another human being (with flaws and all) and expect her judgement of me to be deciding if I am fit to reproduce with her. If she stops going out with you then you are not for her.

So I am out of luck. I have to find another girl and start the courting process over again. So I let a person in my life. Let her waste my time and she leaves and pretends I don't exist. What the hell is this?

A girl's judgment IMO should be taken lightly. Girls or people in general tend to make decisions based on how they "feel." Their decisions are not always the wisest and their perception of you is hardly objective at all. The only person objective is god himself. I am not religious but no one on earth will ever give an objective judgment other than god.

so....rejection is nothing. Dating is a stupid ritual indoctrined in our heads. And you can certainly live on without a BF or GF.

I don't really have much experience with dating... but it is a two way street. Both individuals are evaluating each other, and either party can choose to reject the other at any point. Do you not have any standards of your own? You make it sound like it's all up to the female for you... wait for a sign of interest from her to ask her out (when you could just as easily pick out a girl and show interest yourself)... wait for her to decide whether there will be a second/third/etc. date (when you could just as easily put the brakes on yourself)... let her "waste" your time if you date for a while and it goes nowhere. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, and I'm not saying that I think that the "process" is a great one... but you're making yourself sound like a puppet that takes no initiative over his own life (as far as dating goes at least) and just lets any girl who shows interest dictate what you will do and won't do. You can have more control over your dating life- if you choose to have one, that is. It's not for everyone- but don't condemn it just because you're allowing yourself to be completely at the mercy of the people you choose to date.

 

[this_portrait]

That's what I think too, and it bothers me to see not many people see dating the same way as I do.
Dating is so stupid. Dating is "Let's try to see if this girl can be my girlfriend". What? How do you know you want her to be your girlfriend? Don't you need to know her better first? Don't you need to be friends first?
Plus, on dates, you even need to try to impress her, because you don't have much time. You need to advertise yourself and make no mistakes... everything is based on first impression. How stupid.
Before I need a girlfriend, I need a friend.

I agree. I agree 100%. I really wish these stupid dating sites I'm on worked that way, though. I clearly put up on my profile that I'm not interested in all the lovey-dovey sh*t right away, and I'd rather just meet up, hang out, and draw my opinion from there, but I still get messages from these guys who are attempting to "woo" me.

Ugh, I hate dating. -.-

 

[Anomaly]

That's what I think too, and it bothers me to see not many people see dating the same way as I do.
Dating is so stupid. Dating is "Let's try to see if this girl can be my girlfriend". What? How do you know you want her to be your girlfriend? Don't you need to know her better first? Don't you need to be friends first?
Plus, on dates, you even need to try to impress her, because you don't have much time. You need to advertise yourself and make no mistakes... everything is based on first impression. How stupid.
Before I need a girlfriend, I need a friend.

Yes, agree with your statement. Traditional "dating advice" states the opposite, but to hell with it. It makes no sense whatsoever to try and find out about a person at a time when they're probably doing their best to impress you, thus not being themselves but trying to be what they think you want. Fast-forward through the honeymoon period where the couple is in euphoria, and often it dawns upon them that they are not the people they thought they were (and are now incompatible), making the relationship fall apart or drudge on.

Friends generally do not try to impress each other like this. Friendships are formed during a time when the people are less likely to adjust their personalities to be satisfactory, thus showing their true selves to the other person. While there may be friendships formed for "political" reasons (getting inside information about a certain person, being friends with a popular person, and so on), those types of friendships I would not consider true friendships and do not apply to my reply.

Consider, then, a couple who are in a romantic relationship that was formed out of a friendship. The couple is attracted physically and are attracted to personalities that are likely to be more representative of who they really are. That type of scenario I consider to be the ideal romantic relationship.

 

[backflipper144]

"Dating"- get that out of your vocabulary.

Attraction, intimacy, communication. Those are the words that will get you "dating" opportunities.

First learn to look at a woman and appreciate her beauty without immediately wanting anything from her. Women can sense when you're nervous and they get very turned off. Have a positive attitude and be appreciative that she's alive and that you can and will have a relationship with a woman of her caliber one day, even if you don't exactly know how.

Just chill and be cool. Focus on improving yourself and the women will come naturally your way!

 

[userremoved]

Lol ok I give up, none of us should be giving relationship advice anyways since we obviously don't excel in this area of life