research study: you can eliminate the fear of speaking
- Thread starter Morty
- Start date
powerwithin
Member
Tony Robbins is exceptional. I have listened to all his Programs recently. He has some great ideas, strategies and advice. I'd recommend him to anyone, as it will make a difference.
I went to his UPW seminar last year and it was amazing. Would highly recommend it. That cost over $800, though, Frizboy. Does that make it a con? Again, I have no problem paying talented people for powerful processes. But that's just my own value system.
I went to his UPW seminar last year and it was amazing. Would highly recommend it. That cost over $800, though, Frizboy. Does that make it a con? Again, I have no problem paying talented people for powerful processes. But that's just my own value system.
random
Well-known member
I really appreciated the insightful posts - particulary those of Powerbog and Frizzboy.
Frizzboy,
Do you take Visa or Mastercard?
Morty Lefkoe is president of the Lefkoe franchise. His method used to be called the Decion Maker process. He published a book on this process in 1997 and the book is now out of print. (wonder why it's not selling like hot cakes?!) Brace yourself Frizzboy....YOU...yes YOU can buy the book for $3 on Amazon at this link (doesn't include shipping costs). http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0836221672
But there is BAD NEWS Frizzboy....are you sitting down?
Some of the 8 Amazon reviews are hard sell like this thread but two seem 'normal'. One of these normal persons was furious to discover after reading 240 vague "utopian" pages that the book contains NO HELP.
I captured a 2 paragraph quote from the book reviews section: "But he won't do that (even his web site doesn't contain anything usable), because he wants you to go to him and pay extra for getting actual help. What about those who live on the other side of the world? I guess he just doesn't give a damn.
It is obvious that Mr. Lefkoe didn't write this book in order to provide useful service to the readers but to advertise his seminars. I bet that if you'll ever have a chance to talk to him personally, he won't say you a word of any importance without having received advance payment. He will have to do without my money, however, because I returned the book. Though the book was somewhat beneficial for me, I just didn't feel Mr. Lefkoe deserved to get any money for this 240-page sales letter. Besides, reading through parts 1 and 2 once is all you need - the essential information in this book would fit on a half of a page."
PowerBog,
You were right about 'California Pschologist'. It is a magazine and not a peer reviewed journal, I found it online at http://www.cpapsych.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=49.
Note that the magazine limits submitted articles to 3 to 6 double spaced pages and decides what to published based on this criteria:
"Content- The Editors encourage articles that cover a wide range of topics (i.e., scientific advances, professional practice issues, legislative matters, healthcare climate, etc.). Diverse views, critical analyses, theoretical or innovative ideas are also encouraged"
Powerwithin/Morty
You did ask people to contact you privately again so I do feel entitled to post here.
Frizzboy,
Do you take Visa or Mastercard?
Morty Lefkoe is president of the Lefkoe franchise. His method used to be called the Decion Maker process. He published a book on this process in 1997 and the book is now out of print. (wonder why it's not selling like hot cakes?!) Brace yourself Frizzboy....YOU...yes YOU can buy the book for $3 on Amazon at this link (doesn't include shipping costs). http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0836221672
But there is BAD NEWS Frizzboy....are you sitting down?
Some of the 8 Amazon reviews are hard sell like this thread but two seem 'normal'. One of these normal persons was furious to discover after reading 240 vague "utopian" pages that the book contains NO HELP.
I captured a 2 paragraph quote from the book reviews section: "But he won't do that (even his web site doesn't contain anything usable), because he wants you to go to him and pay extra for getting actual help. What about those who live on the other side of the world? I guess he just doesn't give a damn.
It is obvious that Mr. Lefkoe didn't write this book in order to provide useful service to the readers but to advertise his seminars. I bet that if you'll ever have a chance to talk to him personally, he won't say you a word of any importance without having received advance payment. He will have to do without my money, however, because I returned the book. Though the book was somewhat beneficial for me, I just didn't feel Mr. Lefkoe deserved to get any money for this 240-page sales letter. Besides, reading through parts 1 and 2 once is all you need - the essential information in this book would fit on a half of a page."
PowerBog,
You were right about 'California Pschologist'. It is a magazine and not a peer reviewed journal, I found it online at http://www.cpapsych.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=49.
Note that the magazine limits submitted articles to 3 to 6 double spaced pages and decides what to published based on this criteria:
"Content- The Editors encourage articles that cover a wide range of topics (i.e., scientific advances, professional practice issues, legislative matters, healthcare climate, etc.). Diverse views, critical analyses, theoretical or innovative ideas are also encouraged"
Powerwithin/Morty
You did ask people to contact you privately again so I do feel entitled to post here.
powerwithin
Member
The process worked for me and my girlfriend. That's a fact. Dissect and nitpick all you want. You obviously enjoy it. All I care about is results. Have you read the book? Have you tried the process? If not, then you are not in a good position to criticize.
If you HAD read his book and read through his site, you'd see that the process is explained clearly. I knew what to expect before my sessions. What I didn't expect were the profound changes.
If you look for negativity, you'll find it. Sadly the Internet is full of it. This thread exemplifies that mentality, I'm afraid. It's ok to be cautious, but to outright attack someone and criticize without *trying* their approach is not very helpful - the criticism is based on nothing more than skepticism and ONE Amazon review! Why the obsession with money anyway? Talented people often charge for their services. Is paying for something that would change your life unthinkable? For me, it was a no-brainer to spend that money to get the results.
All I wrote was that the process worked for me. Now I'M attacked too! Crazy!
I praised Tony Robbins too. I guess that makes ME Tony Robbins. Odd logic.
Again, anyone on here is MORE than welcome to contact me (by phone, PM or email) to find out my identity. Of course, that's not going to happen, because it's easier for you to throw out unsubstantiated insults than admit being wrong.
If you HAD read his book and read through his site, you'd see that the process is explained clearly. I knew what to expect before my sessions. What I didn't expect were the profound changes.
If you look for negativity, you'll find it. Sadly the Internet is full of it. This thread exemplifies that mentality, I'm afraid. It's ok to be cautious, but to outright attack someone and criticize without *trying* their approach is not very helpful - the criticism is based on nothing more than skepticism and ONE Amazon review! Why the obsession with money anyway? Talented people often charge for their services. Is paying for something that would change your life unthinkable? For me, it was a no-brainer to spend that money to get the results.
All I wrote was that the process worked for me. Now I'M attacked too! Crazy!
I praised Tony Robbins too. I guess that makes ME Tony Robbins. Odd logic.
Again, anyone on here is MORE than welcome to contact me (by phone, PM or email) to find out my identity. Of course, that's not going to happen, because it's easier for you to throw out unsubstantiated insults than admit being wrong.
charlieHungerford
Well-known member
Powerwithin - what do you expect? You seem offended. But you come on here only AFTER you have overcome your SA, where were you before? Why do you never discuss theory to overcome it, just backing up selling a product? Surely you could write a step by step guide, I mean you experienced it all. But no, you say part with $800, which seems very odd. I know that when I overcome SA, I will tell of my own experiences and help others - for free. You just sound like a salesman. You appear very fake.
Its out of order to use this site to sell your product, you are trying to make money from people's misfortune. I am very sceptical of it as well, I mean people suffer very differently, to make claims that you will overcome SA with this amazing method is just ridiculous in my opinion.
I would rather have a leg off than pay all that money to the likes of you or whoever it is behind this. I think you are wasting your time with your selling techniques here.
Its out of order to use this site to sell your product, you are trying to make money from people's misfortune. I am very sceptical of it as well, I mean people suffer very differently, to make claims that you will overcome SA with this amazing method is just ridiculous in my opinion.
I would rather have a leg off than pay all that money to the likes of you or whoever it is behind this. I think you are wasting your time with your selling techniques here.
charlieHungerford
Well-known member
Powerwithin - its all very odd, you never posted when you suffered from SA, but you did decide to post after you overcame SA. Really strange - I mean surely now you have overcome SA you wouldn't want to look back. And its unbelievable that you managed to find this post selling the product. I mean what are the chances of that when it was hidden away amongst lots of other posts?
Its amazing how all your posts just back this $800 method up. And why did your girlfriend pay $800 to overcome this if you know exactly what you have to do to overcome it? Surely you could have told her everything you did rather than fork out another $800.
Its all very odd.
Its amazing how all your posts just back this $800 method up. And why did your girlfriend pay $800 to overcome this if you know exactly what you have to do to overcome it? Surely you could have told her everything you did rather than fork out another $800.
Its all very odd.
powerwithin
Member
Please read my postings again, Charlie. I can tell you have not read what I have written or perhaps misinterpreted things. I do not feel I need to justify myself but, since I have been totally honest, here goes:
1) I didn't find this site until Oct '06, which was when I registered.
2) I found Morty's post here by putting in a search for "Morty Lefkoe" on Google. It was no great mystery. I am fascinated by the process and wanted to see what other people have written about it.
3) I'm not selling anything. Once again, I AM NOT MORTY LEFKOE! Even Morty wasn't selling you anything. He was offering a service which, if you stopped nitpicking, would benefit you tremendously. Yes, it costs money, but so do many other things! Gee, when will this resonate with people? Additionally, it's not some great ruse. Like Morty and I are in cahoots? To think so strikes a little of paranoia. Again, PM me if you want. Call me. I'll TELL you what the process did for me. I'll also tell you what works and good resources. I don't expect anyone to call or write, though. After all, it's easier to accuse, isn't it?
4) All my posts in this thread back up the process because that's the subject of the thread. I never thought for one second that me endorsing something would result in personal attacks, insults and asinine comments.
5) I won't lose any sleep if no-one here signs up for TLM. I have no agenda. I was simply recommending it and can personally back up its claims. It worked for me and my girlfriend. It has worked for thousands more. Again, it's a SA forum. I thought the POINT was to try to help. I was merely trying to help. You don't have to believe me, but I am resistant to ignorance.
6) I can't understand why an experience of a process would suddenly make you an expert. If you go to a chiropractor or plastic surgeon, would you suddenly be able to perform that on friends and family members? I trust that this will answer all the cynical "why don't you let us all in on the big secret?" postings here. It's not a series of step-by-step "rah rah" sessions. The point is, I experienced something which was carried out by a trained facilitator who had years of experience with many clients. Do I feel I could suddenly start doing this with my gf, friends or anyone else? No! It would be like trying to be a director just because you talked with Martin Scorcese. I am surprised that no-one could appreciate this right away!
7) See this thread and the only other one I've posted in here to see why I don't want to post any instructions here. All I've encountered is negativity. No warmth, no intrigue. It's hardly encouraging and , to be honest, far from uplifting.
I wish you all well, though.
1) I didn't find this site until Oct '06, which was when I registered.
2) I found Morty's post here by putting in a search for "Morty Lefkoe" on Google. It was no great mystery. I am fascinated by the process and wanted to see what other people have written about it.
3) I'm not selling anything. Once again, I AM NOT MORTY LEFKOE! Even Morty wasn't selling you anything. He was offering a service which, if you stopped nitpicking, would benefit you tremendously. Yes, it costs money, but so do many other things! Gee, when will this resonate with people? Additionally, it's not some great ruse. Like Morty and I are in cahoots? To think so strikes a little of paranoia. Again, PM me if you want. Call me. I'll TELL you what the process did for me. I'll also tell you what works and good resources. I don't expect anyone to call or write, though. After all, it's easier to accuse, isn't it?
4) All my posts in this thread back up the process because that's the subject of the thread. I never thought for one second that me endorsing something would result in personal attacks, insults and asinine comments.
5) I won't lose any sleep if no-one here signs up for TLM. I have no agenda. I was simply recommending it and can personally back up its claims. It worked for me and my girlfriend. It has worked for thousands more. Again, it's a SA forum. I thought the POINT was to try to help. I was merely trying to help. You don't have to believe me, but I am resistant to ignorance.
6) I can't understand why an experience of a process would suddenly make you an expert. If you go to a chiropractor or plastic surgeon, would you suddenly be able to perform that on friends and family members? I trust that this will answer all the cynical "why don't you let us all in on the big secret?" postings here. It's not a series of step-by-step "rah rah" sessions. The point is, I experienced something which was carried out by a trained facilitator who had years of experience with many clients. Do I feel I could suddenly start doing this with my gf, friends or anyone else? No! It would be like trying to be a director just because you talked with Martin Scorcese. I am surprised that no-one could appreciate this right away!
7) See this thread and the only other one I've posted in here to see why I don't want to post any instructions here. All I've encountered is negativity. No warmth, no intrigue. It's hardly encouraging and , to be honest, far from uplifting.
I wish you all well, though.
charlieHungerford
Well-known member
Its nothing personal powerwithin, I think anyone who comes in here who seems to just be posting why we should part with $800 would not receive the nicest of comments.
I think you are very niave to think people would not be very sceptical paying $800. You get so many con people on the internet and I think its extremely unfair that you think people should not be wary of this as well. You may have no problems paying $800 which is a lot of money for something from people you don't know or trust, but others will be wary.
Is this fantastic product done over the phone? It sounds so incredibly mickey mouse if it is.
I am really glad it worked for you and people of course will make their own mind up on whether they are willing to pay $800 for this. But its a no from me.
I think you are very niave to think people would not be very sceptical paying $800. You get so many con people on the internet and I think its extremely unfair that you think people should not be wary of this as well. You may have no problems paying $800 which is a lot of money for something from people you don't know or trust, but others will be wary.
Is this fantastic product done over the phone? It sounds so incredibly mickey mouse if it is.
I am really glad it worked for you and people of course will make their own mind up on whether they are willing to pay $800 for this. But its a no from me.
signs05
Well-known member
The $800 program says that if a person does not achieve the results he was promised by the end of the program, he is reimbursed.
My question is, why not let people try the program for free, and if their fear of public speaking disappears completely as is promised, they have to pay? This is more suitable. Of course this will not happen since it would force the people behind it to actually help people if they want some money.
BTW, a program that eliminates the fear of public speaking, the number one fear in America, and only ONE institute does a study about it? :roll:
My question is, why not let people try the program for free, and if their fear of public speaking disappears completely as is promised, they have to pay? This is more suitable. Of course this will not happen since it would force the people behind it to actually help people if they want some money.
BTW, a program that eliminates the fear of public speaking, the number one fear in America, and only ONE institute does a study about it? :roll:
frizboy
Well-known member
A couple new thoughts. With the Lefkoe Method, there are two logical possibilities: A.) the method works, and I will have spent 800 dollars, or B.) it doesn't work, and I get my money back. Interestingly, in this case, I would prefer B to be true. If it works, I'm down 800 dollars; that's a lot of money to me. Right now, I'm saving for a car, and that's a pretty big shake from the piggy bank. The benefit for me is getting over public speaking anxiety. Meanwhile, with B, I get the money back, and I learn something pretty important: that the method doesn't work for me.
Now let's consider CBT. Again, because of my circumstances, this therapy is free. So the possibilities are: A.) I spend no money, and I get over my public speaking anxiety, or B.) I spend no money, and I don't get over my public speaking anxiety. What we can conclude from this is that CBT should be the preferable option, due to the cost (none) and expected benefit (relatively high) compared to TLM (which will never cost 0 dollars as often as CBT, and since we have insufficient evidence to make a claim about how frequently it works, we can't even say how much we should normally expect to pay).
Now, the paper on TLM Morty cites mentions casually that his process can cure the phobia of public speaking permanently. But the data he gives only permits us to infer that it can cure it for as many as 6 months, and, again, for various methodological reasons, we should tend to look upon this result with skepticism. And since we also don't have sufficient evidence to claim that TLM will make a difference any faster than CBT (again, see the sloppy methodology of the original study), the favorable qualities of TLM that Morty claims should be held if not agnostically than discounted altogether.
This argument is sufficient to produce the following conclusions: CBT is the preferable option for those who have tried neither CBT nor TLM. On the other hand, for those who have tried CBT and all other processes we should expect to have a similarly excellent cost-benefit profile, TLM may become a feasible option.
Now let's consider CBT. Again, because of my circumstances, this therapy is free. So the possibilities are: A.) I spend no money, and I get over my public speaking anxiety, or B.) I spend no money, and I don't get over my public speaking anxiety. What we can conclude from this is that CBT should be the preferable option, due to the cost (none) and expected benefit (relatively high) compared to TLM (which will never cost 0 dollars as often as CBT, and since we have insufficient evidence to make a claim about how frequently it works, we can't even say how much we should normally expect to pay).
Now, the paper on TLM Morty cites mentions casually that his process can cure the phobia of public speaking permanently. But the data he gives only permits us to infer that it can cure it for as many as 6 months, and, again, for various methodological reasons, we should tend to look upon this result with skepticism. And since we also don't have sufficient evidence to claim that TLM will make a difference any faster than CBT (again, see the sloppy methodology of the original study), the favorable qualities of TLM that Morty claims should be held if not agnostically than discounted altogether.
This argument is sufficient to produce the following conclusions: CBT is the preferable option for those who have tried neither CBT nor TLM. On the other hand, for those who have tried CBT and all other processes we should expect to have a similarly excellent cost-benefit profile, TLM may become a feasible option.
random
Well-known member
Powerwithin/Morty
You have been deceptive from the beginning - claiming that YOU want to personally help everyone here for FREE (on another thread) if they call YOU and finally admitting that it costs $800 dollars and it isn't YOU who delivers the solution because you aren't qualitified. Many times you stressed (other thread) the point that it was FREE and it doesn't seem to phase you at all that you were caught lying. In fact - now you seem to be contemptuous of people who found out it wasn't free - implying that THEY place too much emphasis on money. This program has been around for more than 20 years and still has not gained professional acceptance. Not in the field of psychology or socially. If 93% of Toastmasters volunteers who participated in the study really were cured - I would think they would support this product. I never have understood why you think fear of public speaking and SA are equivaletnt - almost everyone is afraid of public speaking but a small percentage of them have SA. These are differnet issues. Why come to an SA board? Did you think we were vulnerable or perhaps more desparate than the Toastmasters?
Everything is blatant manipulation with you - it's either sales pressure or NPD and I can't tell which one anymore:
Your stock response to queries that you don't like is to blame others, suggest they haven't read or paid attention, comment on their ignorance and negativity. I don't find you warm or uplifting at all but I have to say the way you have exposed yourself here is kind of intriguing.
I think you are locked into your sales pitch and/or NPD so that you will never stop with the chiding, blaming, taunting, fake 'concern' and indignation.
You have been deceptive from the beginning - claiming that YOU want to personally help everyone here for FREE (on another thread) if they call YOU and finally admitting that it costs $800 dollars and it isn't YOU who delivers the solution because you aren't qualitified. Many times you stressed (other thread) the point that it was FREE and it doesn't seem to phase you at all that you were caught lying. In fact - now you seem to be contemptuous of people who found out it wasn't free - implying that THEY place too much emphasis on money. This program has been around for more than 20 years and still has not gained professional acceptance. Not in the field of psychology or socially. If 93% of Toastmasters volunteers who participated in the study really were cured - I would think they would support this product. I never have understood why you think fear of public speaking and SA are equivaletnt - almost everyone is afraid of public speaking but a small percentage of them have SA. These are differnet issues. Why come to an SA board? Did you think we were vulnerable or perhaps more desparate than the Toastmasters?
Everything is blatant manipulation with you - it's either sales pressure or NPD and I can't tell which one anymore:
What? You came here to find warmth and intrigue? If we don't give it to you you won't help us? While you are deceptive and contemptuous toward us - we aren't uplifting enough? Is it really all about how good we make you feel?powerwithin said:
Your stock response to queries that you don't like is to blame others, suggest they haven't read or paid attention, comment on their ignorance and negativity. I don't find you warm or uplifting at all but I have to say the way you have exposed yourself here is kind of intriguing.
No, you don't.powerwithin said:
I think you are locked into your sales pitch and/or NPD so that you will never stop with the chiding, blaming, taunting, fake 'concern' and indignation.
powerwithin
Member
Random, I'm FASCINATED to know what I'm trying to sell. Since I'm not a Lefkoe facilitator (a point you have somehow missed!), I'm not delivering the process - not qualified for it. Additionally, I'm not referring people to TLM. The two threads are entirely unrelated. Are you starting to understand now?
Your conspiracy theory is intriguing, but sadly you are way off-base.
And please do not presume that I don't wish people well. Your petty comments, ignorance to what I've actually written and outright paranoia highlights that you know nothing about me. Again, you have not PMed or emailed, so this forum thread where you get to spout off is just a form of release for you. What a shame....
Your conspiracy theory is intriguing, but sadly you are way off-base.
And please do not presume that I don't wish people well. Your petty comments, ignorance to what I've actually written and outright paranoia highlights that you know nothing about me. Again, you have not PMed or emailed, so this forum thread where you get to spout off is just a form of release for you. What a shame....
frizboy
Well-known member
Let's look at things a little differently. On a positive note, powerwithin seems to have seen results with the Lefkoe Method. That's good! I love a success story just as much as the next person. Naturally, he feels compelled to recommend the process (he does so on page 2 of this thread); if something worked for me, I might even write up a little about it for your reading pleasure. So all of this so far seems completely normal.
It is, however, an unfortunate aspect of human nature to take one man or woman's testimony as representative of what you yourself can expect, and make risky decisions based on that expectation. It's not as if we should take powerwithin's testimony with a grain of salt. But given that he's just one person, among a very small contingent of people who testify to TLM's effectiveness, we should at least suspend judgment as to the product's effectiveness for the time being until more convincing evidence comes to light (Lefkoe himself claims that the method has helped tens of thousands; he does not, however, report on how many people it does not help, leaving it unclear what the ratio might look like).
Meanwhile, there are other options for which the evidence is convincing, which cost much less or that are in many cases free. Again, these options should reasonably be pursued first.
It is, however, an unfortunate aspect of human nature to take one man or woman's testimony as representative of what you yourself can expect, and make risky decisions based on that expectation. It's not as if we should take powerwithin's testimony with a grain of salt. But given that he's just one person, among a very small contingent of people who testify to TLM's effectiveness, we should at least suspend judgment as to the product's effectiveness for the time being until more convincing evidence comes to light (Lefkoe himself claims that the method has helped tens of thousands; he does not, however, report on how many people it does not help, leaving it unclear what the ratio might look like).
Meanwhile, there are other options for which the evidence is convincing, which cost much less or that are in many cases free. Again, these options should reasonably be pursued first.
random
Well-known member
Frizboy,
I wonder how a person who wants their money back 'proves' that the 'treatment' didn't help them; how do you prove it to the person who wants to keep your $800 dollars that you still feel nervous when speaking in public?
Unfortunately there are plenty of predators in the market place and they aren't ALL limited to the sellers of miracle cures. Some of the buyers probably wouldn't mind getting 'free treatement' regardless of the outcome - what's to stop all or many of the buyers from claiming it didn't help them so they could get their money back?
It must be really really hard to get your money back....if not....then their 'success rate' would be MUCH lower wouldn't it?
I wonder how a person who wants their money back 'proves' that the 'treatment' didn't help them; how do you prove it to the person who wants to keep your $800 dollars that you still feel nervous when speaking in public?
Unfortunately there are plenty of predators in the market place and they aren't ALL limited to the sellers of miracle cures. Some of the buyers probably wouldn't mind getting 'free treatement' regardless of the outcome - what's to stop all or many of the buyers from claiming it didn't help them so they could get their money back?
It must be really really hard to get your money back....if not....then their 'success rate' would be MUCH lower wouldn't it?
random
Well-known member
Morty Lefkoe's earlier book on the Decision Maker Process (also known as the Lefkoe Process) was written in 1995 and is titled:
Using the Decision Maker process to change beliefs, attitudes, and feelings in order to reduce criminal behavior in delinquent offenders: A pilot study : final report -- revised March 13, 1995 (Unknown Binding)
http://www.amazon.com/Decision-atti...ef=sr_1_3/002-3871018-1945630?ie=UTF8&s=books
Update:
Used copies are also available on the Barnes and Noble website. Here is an exerpt from Publisher's Weekly review of Morty's book posted on Barnesandnoble.com website:
"Lefkoe stresses repeatedly that he has no credentials in psychology, psychotherapy or recovery counseling, save a long stint with est, as trainee and then as group leader. "
source: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780836221671&itm=3
Using the Decision Maker process to change beliefs, attitudes, and feelings in order to reduce criminal behavior in delinquent offenders: A pilot study : final report -- revised March 13, 1995 (Unknown Binding)
http://www.amazon.com/Decision-atti...ef=sr_1_3/002-3871018-1945630?ie=UTF8&s=books
Update:
Used copies are also available on the Barnes and Noble website. Here is an exerpt from Publisher's Weekly review of Morty's book posted on Barnesandnoble.com website:
"Lefkoe stresses repeatedly that he has no credentials in psychology, psychotherapy or recovery counseling, save a long stint with est, as trainee and then as group leader. "
source: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780836221671&itm=3
powerwithin
Member
I wondered this myself. There are predators, no doubt, and some customers may be liars - moneyback guarantees are surely rife for abuse. I think what these practitioners do, however, is build up a trust and rapport with their customers. I couldn't in good conscience use someone's time, pay the fee, then lie that it didn't work. Karma and all that. I'm sure some people do but, if you pay that amount of money, you are going to commit.
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. I wondered this myself. There are predators, no doubt, and some customers may be liars - moneyback guarantees are surely rife for abuse. I think what these practitioners do, however, is build up a trust and rapport with their customers. I couldn't in good conscience use someone's time, pay the fee, then lie that it didn't work. Karma and all that. I'm sure some people do but, if you pay that amount of money, you are going to commit.
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. I wondered this myself. There are predators, no doubt, and some customers may be liars - moneyback guarantees are surely rife for abuse. I think what these practitioners do, however, is build up a trust and rapport with their customers. I couldn't in good conscience use someone's time, pay the fee, then lie that it didn't work. Karma and all that. I'm sure some people do but, if you pay that amount of money, you are going to commit.
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. Who knows? Not me, as they never answered!
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. I wondered this myself. There are predators, no doubt, and some customers may be liars - moneyback guarantees are surely rife for abuse. I think what these practitioners do, however, is build up a trust and rapport with their customers. I couldn't in good conscience use someone's time, pay the fee, then lie that it didn't work. Karma and all that. I'm sure some people do but, if you pay that amount of money, you are going to commit.
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. I wondered this myself. There are predators, no doubt, and some customers may be liars - moneyback guarantees are surely rife for abuse. I think what these practitioners do, however, is build up a trust and rapport with their customers. I couldn't in good conscience use someone's time, pay the fee, then lie that it didn't work. Karma and all that. I'm sure some people do but, if you pay that amount of money, you are going to commit.
On a similar note, I was going to try Change That's Right Now (that costs $2500+, by the way!). At the time, it was a toss-up between that and TLM. I sent emails to both companies because, to be honest, I wanted help asap. I was dubious that anything would work for me.
Both companies did reply, detailing the processes and how things would work out. I asked TLM about their refund policy and they were very forthcoming. CTRN, on the other hand, never answered any more of my emails on the matter. They cut off all contact and, to me, that suggested "take the money and run". I could be wrong but it didn't convey the same level of confidence to me.
I would never pay over 2k without getting some sort of guarantee, but perhaps they took my question as a sign that I was going to dupe them. Who knows? Not me, as they never answered!
random
Well-known member
powerwithin said:
Powerwithin/Morty
Oh but they are the same! (I list some of the reasons why they are so hard to tell apart below – if anyone is interested enough to read it.)
You made a blanket statement in the other thread that you "want to help everyone here" with anxiety for FREE and never would say how- no matter how many times we asked.. In fact…you seemed to abandon that thread when a 21 year old male poster accepted your offer of help and asked for you to tell him how you would help. So you left that thread to show up here on THIS thread instead. Refusing to say WHAT resources you would share on the other thread (hey - was it a Lefkoe DVD?) allows you to claim that these two threads are different and it allows me the equal right to claim that they are exactly the same.
1 On both threads you refer to “processes” that you are recommending (you were careful not to identify the process on the other thread - extremely careful)
2 On both you indicate that these “processes” will help EVERYONE (you are confident everyone WILL or can be helped except when you backtrack a little and blame the victim)
3. On both threads you claim ‘special knowledge’ (YOU have tried lots of things and YOU know “what works” for everyone)
4. You make assumptions about us (we can all be helped the same way) while you insist we not assume or presume ANYTHING about you
5 On both threads, you urge people to call you, IM you, email you
6 On both you accuse people who take legitimate issue with your posts of not having read your posts (hey! Morty does that too!)
7 On both threads you indicate that THIS process will work and other efforts (particularly reading) are a waste of time and will not help anyone (how encouraging!)
8 On both you say that resistance (people don't really want to get over their fears) is the REAL reason why what you are recommending may not work for some people (blame the victim)
9 On both threads you stress "I have no agenda" and that you don't care if people try the process or not - and then you go back to pushing it
10 On both threads you say that you don't need to justify yourself - and then you try to
11 On both you claim that there's something wrong people who doubt you (you call them paranoid, negative, nitpicking etc.)
12 On both threads you stress that you were just trying to help (but your claims to altruism are peppered with insults directed at posters)
13 On both – you side step queries you can’t face; you pretend they don’t exist, and focus on something else
14 On both you have a striking lack of awareness about how you interact with others.
When WILL you help that 21 year old man (signs05) on the other thread? Or is it all about you?
powerwithin said:
Oh...I see...we owe you warmth and intrgue or you won't help anyone here....we have to be uplifting no matter what you say to us...I get it.
charlieHungerford
Well-known member
Yeah you are right random. Just looking at the style of writing it is so obvious that powerwithin and morty are the same person. And another point - how come morty disappeared as soon as Powerwithin came on the forum backing this up?
Have you noticed both morty and powerwithin use CAPITALS to emphasise a point:
I guess you can understand why Morty would do this, he knew he was getting nowhere as Morty so thought maybe inventing someone backing up this $800 product might make some cash.
Hehe, good try morty/powerwithin, you nearly had us all going there. Well he did didn't he? Well, ok he didn't.
Have you noticed both morty and powerwithin use CAPITALS to emphasise a point:
Morty said:
powerwithin said:
I guess you can understand why Morty would do this, he knew he was getting nowhere as Morty so thought maybe inventing someone backing up this $800 product might make some cash.
Hehe, good try morty/powerwithin, you nearly had us all going there. Well he did didn't he? Well, ok he didn't.
charlieHungerford
Well-known member
Signs, I kind of feel Morty/powerwithin won't be back.
You can also see that they both seem to be pissed off in their replies but keep that same composure of not letting it spill over, you know what I mean.
They are both the same person, but I think it shows how arrogant Morty is to not admit it. I would have some respect if he said look I did post as two people but only to try and be heard above the negative comments.
You can also see that they both seem to be pissed off in their replies but keep that same composure of not letting it spill over, you know what I mean.
They are both the same person, but I think it shows how arrogant Morty is to not admit it. I would have some respect if he said look I did post as two people but only to try and be heard above the negative comments.