Never learned to speak

DarkSeeker

Well-known member
What's ahead is pretty long, so there's a TLDR version at the end



I'm trying to get over my problems, but I have this thing that happened to me, and that I just can't relate with anyone or anything I've ever heard or read about.

Of course I've learned to talk, but due to my very poor "education" done by my parents I was never able to connect with anyone and sooner made enemies or simply keep myself neutral with pretty much everyone I've ever met.

When I was 13 I was severely bullied and absolutely no one gave a ****, and I knew that self-defense was not an option because where I live those lazy *******s go a lot harder on the good people trying to protect themselves than on the thrash that makes other people's life miserable.

At point I lost all hopes, talking never did me any good, no one, absolutely no one never even tried to understand what I was saying anyway or paid any attention to me. Talking was an useless function, so I just shut my mouth. I let the insults flow into my ears without even bulging, I stared in front of me as if nothing was happening, after all pretending that I didn't exist had always been the thing I did best.

I became a circus freak, attracting more bullies, it didn't matter to me if it was one or another, soon everyone became a bully in my eyes. At the time I was listening to the radio to some guy with a lot of character and a lot of guts. He was talking about how much we lived in the worst place in North America right after Mexico, how our ancestors were just the trash those impotent Frenchies had left behind after losing the war.

I've always been dragged around by my parents to their tea party with other relatives. I was always the only kid there, so I just stayed alone in my corner reading books, but I did listened to them talking about how much we were only "white niggers", that our language was just bad French from 300 years ago mixed up with a tad of very bad English.

My parents forced me to learn English, they didn't give a $hit about it themselves, they can still barely speak it. They clumsily tried to make me into the what they could never be. I couldn't learn "Joual" properly, they forced me to speak like a 70 year old with my "friend(no s)" on the phone, I've never learned to speak like a normal person perhaps not even ever had their accent. I didn't even have any control over what I was saying myself.

But when I stop speaking at 13 years old, there was always the tv., the novels and the video games to cheer me up, all of them in English. The literature from where I come from are practically all tragically stupid love stories about about adults acting like 5 year old kid being stabbed in the back by an envious bitch or stories about kids with horrible childhood and no one to help them, all of them never with a good ending. But for the first time in my life, I had actually stories with characters who stood up for themselves and who fought for their beliefs. The thought of it felt so good, I've never seen anyone like this in real life, only cowards who let others control their life without any dignity.

And the words, I soon discovered those beautiful sounding words actually had meanings, and what special meanings some of them had. No one around me never bother with that, anything was always twisted into anything. Already that their vocabulary was almost only limited to swears, words had no meaning to them (except if you attacked their integrity of course).

I was repressed to death during my childhood, but I was always free to control the tv and all that in anyways I liked. I was repressed learning "Joual", but nobody around me spoke English, so I wasn't repressed learning it with my real parents with artificial real love, the tv and the computer. I stop thinking in "Joual", in fact I have no memories of ever thinking in "Joual". When I was dumped in a foster home in Nova-Scotia for a month that had been the last straw. I never thought in "Joual" again (except for a few words but never full sentences, not for maths either). Even my dream got pretty mixed and finally were exclusively in English.

Everything about English feels so good to write or speak. Even those lines at this very moment I enjoy every single word of it. I always did extremely good in my English class, the teacher told me I had a gift. On the other hand I always did very poor in my French class, after learning English I stop caring all together and barely got the passing grade more than once. French is so ridiculously complex and hard to write, the grammar rules are real crap and makes no sense. But English on the other hand, is almost always so very intuitive, everything feels so natural, it brings tears to my eyes just to think about it (you'll have to forgive me for that run on sentence here ;)).

All those exams I did in French and the few things I ever told people (mostly mouais, nah, no, chpas), I was just letting my mouth follow words whispered from the back of my head, words that I didn't even understand before speaking them and translating them back. I didn't understand what people were saying but I somehow understood what they were talking about and what they wanted.

In 7 years I've never spoken to anyone consciously, had an average of spoken words a day less than 10, and more than enough real conversations a year to count them on the fingers of one hand. And it wasn't any better before that. I did speak a lot, but was always treated like a freak and totally ignored.

Now that I'm out of all that misery, I can start speaking again, but it's very hard to try to get rid of your past only to realize that you can't even speak right because of it. I've done a LOT of talking to myself and recording my voice trying to better my skills. I don't have any trace left of the accent (if I ever had it in the first place) from where I come from, but neither do I have an accent from anywhere in the world, except if you count tv as a location. My voice is already strange sounding and nasally, it's unlike anything I've ever heard.

I'm not sure if people do believe me when I tell them that English is my first language, but then again I don't speak any other language. It's a horrible burden, that feeling that I can't speak any language right because I wasn't raised by any real parents.

I've completely cut myself from "Joual" for over a year, and before that I was already doing great amount of work to reduce my exposition to it. I went as far as making very loud noises inside my head to prevent myself from hearing anything when those fat stupid relatives were talking nonsense.

I'm still surrounded by a couple of people who speak "joual". It's the worst language in the world, their every word sounds like swears, it's garbage coming out of their mouth. I feel such an impossibly huge pain when I hear them, it's like touching fire but without the physical sensation. I overexposed myself to it once in the hope of reducing my sensibility, it worked in a way and left me literally stunned for a good 25 minutes, but I still and I think will always avoid it like the pest.

It's less worst if it's the French accent, it feels like a different language. From where I come from, French accent or speaking with proper grammar = being an effeminate homosexual (I understand it's probably the same for any language, but I think it's worst from where I come from where slang is recognized as the officially spoken language). That's make it very hard for me to understand how can someone willingly speak like this in public or at all. Sometimes I feel like I come from those South states I keep hearing about with the hillbillies and all the consanguinity. Just replace the crazy redneck with a shotgun under his bed by a spineless socialist coward, and the woman in the kitchen by a crazy and immature controlling bitch also known as the Queen Bee.

Now that I don't have any academic pressure on me anymore (academic pressure to write or to read French that is), every time I see words in french I have a very great difficulty reading them and I also have to traduce them back in English to understand them. I see expressions that ought to be very familiar to me by now as if it were the first time I read them. The whole language seems so infantile to me, it's like reading something written by a little child.

In the end, this strange and appalling ordeal is both a curse and blessing. It's a curse in the sense that I wasn't raised by native speakers and that doesn't help with confidence which leads to me constantly testing myself. And it's a blessing in the sense that for the first time in my life I can freely and naturally speak a real language and feel like a real human being.



TLDR: I lived with my biological parents for 19 years and never truly learned to speak the language they use and that everyone back there uses in their everyday life (due to horrible childhood).

They don't speak English and can't even understand anything I tell them, not that they would bother listening anyways.

I have no first language, and had to learn how to speak by myself.

This is all very confusing identity wise, but English is so much better and more natural to me. Yet, I just seem to be missing something, I'm lost in between Hell and Heaven.
 
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ThePunisher

Well-known member
I'm sorry to hear that all these horrible events happened to you. Really I am :( /hug

I can relate to you through the bullying I too was bullied around that age. I felt hopeless, depressed, anger and even if I wanted to fight back I couldn't cause they had bigger numbers and yeah other people too started joining in the fun. Damn them!

I also have a bad relationship with my parents, it's like they don't understand me and like you but only for my mum, she doesn't want to advance her english. It's decent but sometimes she doesn't understand what I'm saying especially when I want to pass a point to her and we end up getting into arguments. It's frustrating and depressing and it's been going on for nearly a decade for me.

I can relate to you with the language in a way. I too had difficulty learning mandarin at chinese school. The way my teacher taught us was also crap. She just gave us the answers and spoke mandarin most of the time, in which I could barely understand, and when I asked her something in english, she would tell me off and tell me to speak in mandarin, but how could I if I didn't know how.... I was a kid back then so ofcourse I didn't know how to learn it by myself. 9 years was the time I wasted attending chinese school.

It's good that you found something that helps you escape from reality and that, that thing is your light.

Well Darkseeker all I can say to you is that maybe it's time to have a fresh start, move to some place else and keep searching for that place, where you belong. Everyone belongs somewhere even the scum of society. It's just a matter of putting effort and asking around, believe me you might be surprise from what you find out. I speak from personal expereince, well not the moving out bit, yet....

But I have done something similar, 2 years ago I stopped contacting all of my friends that I had before. Some of them were jerks, didn't respect me as a friend like they would make fun of me even when I told them to stop it. Others just forgot about me and didn't really wanna hang out with me when I called them.

It's the anger and hatred I had for these people that made me do this. I used my anger to dump this debt and felt better ever since. I've started making new friends, friends I could understand and relate to better and that respect me more.

Anyways, hope this helps, and here's a helpline website that could help you if you want to talk to someone about your problems and ofcourse it'll remain confidential. Trust me it helps, speaking from personal experience. It's also free too :) LifeLine International - Looking for Help

And oh yeah one more thing, not that I'm accusing you of anything or making you feel bad but have you ever heard of Asperger's Syndrome. I think maybe that's what you might have that causes you to have difficulty understanding your language and difficulty with social interaction.

Asperger syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's what I suffer from and it explained the reason why I had difficulty making friends when I was young and also difficulty in understanding stuff sometimes.
 

DarkSeeker

Well-known member
Thank you for replying to my very long post, I really appreciate.

Well Darkseeker all I can say to you is that maybe it's time to have a fresh start, move to some place else and keep searching for that place, where you belong.

I've already did :), the best thing to happen to me in life yet. I still have a hard time making the rest of my brain understand that it's real though. I also have a hard time connecting with people, I just feel like I come from a totally different world, like I grew up too fast to get along with people my age, but yet I still don't have the knowledge or the experience to connect with older people in my domain of interest.

And oh yeah one more thing, not that I'm accusing you of anything or making you feel bad but have you ever heard of Asperger's Syndrome. I think maybe that's what you might have that causes you to have difficulty understanding your language and difficulty with social interaction.
Asperger syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's what I suffer from and it explained the reason why I had difficulty making friends when I was young and also difficulty in understanding stuff sometimes.

I've read about Asperger, but I don't fully identify with it. I know that my mother's mother has unholy blood which is quite troubling knowing I got a quarter of those genes. As a child I would have no problem believing that I had Asperger, but right now I'm not quite sure. I have doubts has whether my problem comes from bad genes or being put into the care of people with bad genes as an infant.
 
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Hellhound

Super Moderator
I've read about Asperger, but I don't fully identify with it. I know that my mother's mother has unholy blood which is quite troubling knowing I got a quarter of those genes. As a child I would have no problem believing that I had Asperger, but right now I'm not quite sure. I have doubts has whether my problem comes from bad genes or being put into the care of people with bad genes as an infant.

I don't think it's a matter of genes. Being raised by bad people and abused plays an important role It causes a lot of problems :(
 

DarkSeeker

Well-known member
Well genes always have a word in everything that is us, but if it mostly comes from the people who raised me then there's a still a little hope left to change things. I believe I've already did.
 

kittypants

Member
i think if you did a longer version of your story, it would be a fascinating book. while it comes from misfortune, you have not stayed in misfortune, you have tried to see the better side of it. my guess about you is that developmentally, you likely did not learn things the time you should have, because your parents did not know how to parent a child. maybe they have deficits. we have certain times in our development that are optimal for learning certain things. language is one of them. if you look up 'childhood development of language' it would explain better than i could.
i know that this is one of the reasons i am as i am. i didnt socialize with people before school; i didnt play outside. I didnt climb trees. Now i am clumsy in all things. i also was bullied between 11-14, because i didnt talk and was an easy target. it was never physical, always verbal, emotional, and threatening. i have never stopped expecting that treatment from other people.
thank you for sharing your story. you have come such a long way from where you started!
 

kittypants

Member
a further comment-
i dont think you have aspergers. and i dont think there are labels and names for everything that goes on in the world. bad parenting is responsible for a lot of the worlds ills. i think that looking to label you is missing your point. you came from an extreme situation and now you are growing outward, away from it. your growth may be like flower that has found a way to thrive in an unlikely crack in a sidewalk. that takes a lot of strength and determination. you are to be commended.
 

ThePunisher

Well-known member
Thank you for replying to my very long post, I really appreciate.

No worries mate :)


I've already did :), the best thing to happen to me in life yet. I still have a hard time making the rest of my brain understand that it's real though. I also have a hard time connecting with people, I just feel like I come from a totally different world, like I grew up too fast to get along with people my age, but yet I still don't have the knowledge or the experience to connect with older people in my domain of interest.

Awesome good on ya! lol I know that feeling :D Well you'll learn, it takes time and experimenting and risks. Well that's how I learnt to communicate with people again. Just keep searching I'm sure there are people out there that have the same interest you do. And hey aren't I one of them? :)


I've read about Asperger, but I don't fully identify with it. I know that my mother's mother has unholy blood which is quite troubling knowing I got a quarter of those genes. As a child I would have no problem believing that I had Asperger, but right now I'm not quite sure. I have doubts has whether my problem comes from bad genes or being put into the care of people with bad genes as an infant.

No offence, but unholy blood or not, it's all in your head, it's not your genes that are causing you to be the way you are. It's you, as I mentioned in another post, you define who you are and no one else can.

I think it's more to do with the way you are raised, the environment you are in and your experiences through life that make you who you are.
 

ThePunisher

Well-known member
a further comment-
i dont think you have aspergers. and i dont think there are labels and names for everything that goes on in the world. i think that looking to label you is missing your point.

It's not my intention to label anyone. I'm just trying to help.

I think sometimes finding out the truth about yourself can help you in life cause you know what are your limits and you can work around it.

It's like when I discovered I had asperger's disorder I was relief cause it finally explain why such and such happened in the past. It was like the big missing piece of puzzle that fitted in my jigsaw puzzle.

From then on I can live life at least feeling a bit happier knowing that it's not cause I lack the social skills but cause I was born with a mental illness that cause it.
 

just_shadows

Well-known member
What's ahead is pretty long, so there's a TLDR version at the end



I'm trying to get over my problems, but I have this thing that happened to me, and that I just can't relate with anyone or anything I've ever heard or read about.

Of course I've learned to talk, but due to my very poor "education" done by my parents I was never able to connect with anyone and sooner made enemies or simply keep myself neutral with pretty much everyone I've ever met.

When I was 13 I was severely bullied and absolutely no one gave a ****, and I knew that self-defense was not an option because where I live those lazy *******s go a lot harder on the good people trying to protect themselves than on the thrash that makes other people's life miserable.

At point I lost all hopes, talking never did me any good, no one, absolutely no one never even tried to understand what I was saying anyway or paid any attention to me. Talking was an useless function, so I just shut my mouth. I let the insults flow into my ears without even bulging, I stared in front of me as if nothing was happening, after all pretending that I didn't exist had always been the thing I did best.

I became a circus freak, attracting more bullies, it didn't matter to me if it was one or another, soon everyone became a bully in my eyes. At the time I was listening to the radio to some guy with a lot of character and a lot of guts. He was talking about how much we lived in the worst place in North America right after Mexico, how our ancestors were just the trash those impotent Frenchies had left behind after losing the war.

I've always been dragged around by my parents to their tea party with other relatives. I was always the only kid there, so I just stayed alone in my corner reading books, but I did listened to them talking about how much we were only "white niggers", that our language was just bad French from 300 years ago mixed up with a tad of very bad English.

My parents forced me to learn English, they didn't give a $hit about it themselves, they can still barely speak it. They clumsily tried to make me into the what they could never be. I couldn't learn "Joual" properly, they forced me to speak like a 70 year old with my "friend(no s)" on the phone, I've never learned to speak like a normal person perhaps not even ever had their accent. I didn't even have any control over what I was saying myself.

But when I stop speaking at 13 years old, there was always the tv., the novels and the video games to cheer me up, all of them in English. The literature from where I come from are practically all tragically stupid love stories about about adults acting like 5 year old kid being stabbed in the back by an envious bitch or stories about kids with horrible childhood and no one to help them, all of them never with a good ending. But for the first time in my life, I had actually stories with characters who stood up for themselves and who fought for their beliefs. The thought of it felt so good, I've never seen anyone like this in real life, only cowards who let others control their life without any dignity.

And the words, I soon discovered those beautiful sounding words actually had meanings, and what special meanings some of them had. No one around me never bother with that, anything was always twisted into anything. Already that their vocabulary was almost only limited to swears, words had no meaning to them (except if you attacked their integrity of course).

I was repressed to death during my childhood, but I was always free to control the tv and all that in anyways I liked. I was repressed learning "Joual", but nobody around me spoke English, so I wasn't repressed learning it with my real parents with artificial real love, the tv and the computer. I stop thinking in "Joual", in fact I have no memories of ever thinking in "Joual". When I was dumped in a foster home in Nova-Scotia for a month that had been the last straw. I never thought in "Joual" again (except for a few words but never full sentences, not for maths either). Even my dream got pretty mixed and finally were exclusively in English.

Everything about English feels so good to write or speak. Even those lines at this very moment I enjoy every single word of it. I always did extremely good in my English class, the teacher told me I had a gift. On the other hand I always did very poor in my French class, after learning English I stop caring all together and barely got the passing grade more than once. French is so ridiculously complex and hard to write, the grammar rules are real crap and makes no sense. But English on the other hand, is almost always so very intuitive, everything feels so natural, it brings tears to my eyes just to think about it (you'll have to forgive me for that run on sentence here ;)).

All those exams I did in French and the few things I ever told people (mostly mouais, nah, no, chpas), I was just letting my mouth follow words whispered from the back of my head, words that I didn't even understand before speaking them and translating them back. I didn't understand what people were saying but I somehow understood what they were talking about and what they wanted.

In 7 years I've never spoken to anyone consciously, had an average of spoken words a day less than 10, and more than enough real conversations a year to count them on the fingers of one hand. And it wasn't any better before that. I did speak a lot, but was always treated like a freak and totally ignored.

Now that I'm out of all that misery, I can start speaking again, but it's very hard to try to get rid of your past only to realize that you can't even speak right because of it. I've done a LOT of talking to myself and recording my voice trying to better my skills. I don't have any trace left of the accent (if I ever had it in the first place) from where I come from, but neither do I have an accent from anywhere in the world, except if you count tv as a location. My voice is already strange sounding and nasally, it's unlike anything I've ever heard.

I'm not sure if people do believe me when I tell them that English is my first language, but then again I don't speak any other language. It's a horrible burden, that feeling that I can't speak any language right because I wasn't raised by any real parents.

I've completely cut myself from "Joual" for over a year, and before that I was already doing great amount of work to reduce my exposition to it. I went as far as making very loud noises inside my head to prevent myself from hearing anything when those fat stupid relatives were talking nonsense.

I'm still surrounded by a couple of people who speak "joual". It's the worst language in the world, their every word sounds like swears, it's garbage coming out of their mouth. I feel such an impossibly huge pain when I hear them, it's like touching fire but without the physical sensation. I overexposed myself to it once in the hope of reducing my sensibility, it worked in a way and left me literally stunned for a good 25 minutes, but I still and I think will always avoid it like the pest.

It's less worst if it's the French accent, it feels like a different language. From where I come from, French accent or speaking with proper grammar = being an effeminate homosexual (I understand it's probably the same for any language, but I think it's worst from where I come from where slang is recognized as the officially spoken language). That's make it very hard for me to understand how can someone willingly speak like this in public or at all. Sometimes I feel like I come from those South states I keep hearing about with the hillbillies and all the consanguinity. Just replace the crazy redneck with a shotgun under his bed by a spineless socialist coward, and the woman in the kitchen by a crazy and immature controlling bitch also known as the Queen Bee.

Now that I don't have any academic pressure on me anymore (academic pressure to write or to read French that is), every time I see words in french I have a very great difficulty reading them and I also have to traduce them back in English to understand them. I see expressions that ought to be very familiar to me by now as if it were the first time I read them. The whole language seems so infantile to me, it's like reading something written by a little child.

In the end, this strange and appalling ordeal is both a curse and blessing. It's a curse in the sense that I wasn't raised by native speakers and that doesn't help with confidence which leads to me constantly testing myself. And it's a blessing in the sense that for the first time in my life I can freely and naturally speak a real language and feel like a real human being.



TLDR: I lived with my biological parents for 19 years and never truly learned to speak the language they use and that everyone back there uses in their everyday life (due to horrible childhood).

They don't speak English and can't even understand anything I tell them, not that they would bother listening anyways.

I have no first language, and had to learn how to speak by myself.

This is all very confusing identity wise, but English is so much better and more natural to me. Yet, I just seem to be missing something, I'm lost in between Hell and Heaven.

wow :(
i'm sorry that you had to go through so much pain in your life :(
it sounds pretty horrible :(

it's just a suggestion, and feel free to say i'm being weird 0 but if you want to talk to someone even online, just to practice - i'm totally up to it. would like talk to you anyway - you sound like an interesting person to know :)

(sorry if that is weird :p)
 

DarkSeeker

Well-known member
a further comment-
i dont think you have aspergers. and i dont think there are labels and names for everything that goes on in the world. bad parenting is responsible for a lot of the worlds ills. i think that looking to label you is missing your point.

As far as I'm concerned, labels are not important. It's all about the symptoms, labels are there only to make a connection between those symptoms and other symptoms.

you came from an extreme situation and now you are growing outward, away from it. your growth may be like flower that has found a way to thrive in an unlikely crack in a sidewalk. that takes a lot of strength and determination. you are to be commended.

Well, it's like they say. Love can grow from the last seed. I'm only 20, so here's to hoping that I can still do as much positive change inside my brain as possible.

No offence, but unholy blood or not, it's all in your head, it's not your genes that are causing you to be the way you are. It's you, as I mentioned in another post, you define who you are and no one else can.

From all the introspection I've been doing, I'm starting to realize just how much of it was only my anxiety talking. I know now that I can speak correctly to myself, but can I speak correctly to other people? Maybe if I could persuade myself that I'm alone that would do it.

Oh, I wasn't clear but by unholy blood I meant undiagnosed case of mental retardation. You can't help being worried about yourself when you know that you could have inherited something like that.

realized how good I have it, at least I can speak within my immediate family!
Must have been horrible for you;(

wow :(
i'm sorry that you had to go through so much pain in your life :(
it sounds pretty horrible :(

It wasn't as bad as I made it sound. I feel like a drug addict who finally got over his addiction and is now living the pain of all the bad he did in his past. It was bad back then, but the tv and all that made it bearable. The real pain started a year and a half ago when I cut myself from the past. Now that's it's done, I'm glad it happened, although in an ideal world things wouldn't have gone like this at all.
 

ThePunisher

Well-known member
From all the introspection I've been doing, I'm starting to realize just how much of it was only my anxiety talking. I know now that I can speak correctly to myself, but can I speak correctly to other people? Maybe if I could persuade myself that I'm alone that would do it.

Told ya it was all in your head :)

Well you can you're doing that now in this forum. It's all about meeting the right people that share things in common with you. That's always the basis of a good conversation and making friends.


Oh, I wasn't clear but by unholy blood I meant undiagnosed case of mental retardation. You can't help being worried about yourself when you know that you could have inherited something like that.

Yeah I know how you feel, before I discovered I had asperger's disorder I'd always knew I was weird. The signs were there, lack of friends, bad social skills, people looked at me weirdly.

It wasn't until I went to counselling and they diagnosed me and came up with the conclusion I had AS. And yeah AS is hereditary so I think I might it got it from my parents.....

So as a suggestion maybe you can go find out the truth about yourself. Like if you do really have a mental illness. Maybe you have it, maybe you don't. But until you find out the truth it's all speculation.....

Trust me after discovering I had AS, it's been a life changing experience for me, it explained why such and such happened in the past. Why I was the way I am. I felt less pressure to "fit in society" cause I knew I was different and couldn't help it. Overall I felt more relieved and happier than before. It was like having a big missing piece of puzzle fit into my jigsaw of life.
 

lunarla

Well-known member
I definitely feel for you, what you went through sounded like a very painful and confusing childhood. All I can say is that you seem like a very well spoken person, even with having gone through what you did with learning the language. It's an endearing story even, and I don't think the right people would judge you for what you went through. Also, I can definitely say I agree with you about your opinion of french. I dropped it in grade 9 because I hated it so much, and instead took spanish as my second language.
 
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