I'm Pissed!!
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sabbath92003
Banned
Me, in a speedo, gives a whole new meaning to exposure therapy. I wouldn't wish that sight on my worst enemy. Again this is what I mean by contrived, bogus situation. If life doesn't provide you with enough exposure then you're not really living. I don't want to be a swimsuit model, so this exposure has no value whatsoever to me. In ACT we use our values to dignify, motivate and guide us through the real exposure situations we will encounter in trying to build or rebuild a full life. I value work (and eating), so working full time is exposure situation numero uno. I value education, so studying in college gives me plenty of exposure situations: buying books in the bookstore, talking to classmates, asking the professor questions, etc.
If you're not working, then setting up and going on job interviews should be your most practiced exposure situation. And it actually serves a purpose. Who knows, you might actually end up with a real job.
If you're not working, then setting up and going on job interviews should be your most practiced exposure situation. And it actually serves a purpose. Who knows, you might actually end up with a real job.
Fairy001
Well-known member
Silverwolf, have you really stood in public for 90 minutes in your undergarments? If so, I am deeply impressed. :lol: I agree with what you are saying regarding exposure. My belief in life about phobias is, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. This sounds extreme, however, anixety can feel like it is going to kill you, when you beat it, you are stronger. I hope I see some peolple in their underwear today testing your theory! :lol:
Peace xxx
Peace xxx
silverwolf
Well-known member
I really have!! It was actually the 1st exposure I did and believe u and me I did not enjoy it. Many people would see it as stupid but here's the thing. When u do sumthing this extreme it is super effective in desensitising all other social fears. I think it would probably take about 20 regular exposure sessions to obtain the kind of results you will see with 1 session of flooding. I think both types of exposure are valuable though.
Fairy001
Well-known member
Was it your idea to overcome your phobia in this way? If so, how did you think of it? I would imagine one would have to have ENORMOUS determination to take such radical action, I can understand it working though. Every other social interaction would pale into insignificance after standing around in your underclothes for 90 minutes. Did you get alot of unwanted attention? I suppose for the majority of people this type of extreme exposure would be too overwhelming. Not to detract from your achievement, it must have been pretty hellish at the time. However, it seems it HAS made you stronger.
Well done you, very brave.
Peace xxx
Well done you, very brave.
Peace xxx
Fairy001
Well-known member
I would also like to add. I can understand other people thinking that the attitude of extreme exposure is negative when social interations are so emotionally and sometimes physically painful. However, to have acheived so positively on your own, is amazing.
Retaining support after overcoming such difficulties is key in keeping these demons at bay. Some other people here seem to feel this attitude of "winning" is unrealistic. I agree with the school of thought regarding seizing your opportunites and making your own sucess. That does not mean that others unable to take such firm control are not winning. We all find our peace and our place in this world differently, we must never give up though. Life is for the living, when we find we are only existing then the fight ensues. For some, little steps are vital, others can make these giant leaps. It is not important how we get somewhere, as long as we arrive.
End of sermon!
Retaining support after overcoming such difficulties is key in keeping these demons at bay. Some other people here seem to feel this attitude of "winning" is unrealistic. I agree with the school of thought regarding seizing your opportunites and making your own sucess. That does not mean that others unable to take such firm control are not winning. We all find our peace and our place in this world differently, we must never give up though. Life is for the living, when we find we are only existing then the fight ensues. For some, little steps are vital, others can make these giant leaps. It is not important how we get somewhere, as long as we arrive.
End of sermon!
dzerklis
Well-known member
silverwolf said:
how do u know it? just because u werent born with it? u can find many people who say theyve had it forever. they are born extremely shy and hypersensitive and that leads straight to social phobia with no exceptions, no matter what kind of environment they were raised. i have a sister, we were raised together and had the same conditions - she is the most outgoing social extrovert blabla person and me, with severe social phobia.
silverwolf
Well-known member
Ok let me deal with this belief you have because it is very very limiting and untrue. These types of beliefs are very dangerous because they can ruin your whole life even when they are untrue in the first place!!!
Let's look at the facts. Antony and Swinson (2000) found that genetic factors were important in the development of SP. Plomin (1989) found that personality traits contributing to SP are highly inheritable. At about a 50% likelihood of inheritance.
So genetic factors are important but irrelevant. Let me quote two of the leading researchers and experts in the field of social phobia;
"If genetics does in fact play a role in causing social anxiety, does that mean that social anxiety cannot be changed? Not at all...For example, regardless of whether an individual is predisposed to be athletic, training hard will improve his or her performance as a long distance runner... The same reasoning holds true for social anxiety. A genetic predisposition to have high levels of social anxiety and shyness simply means that you may have to work harder at overcoming the problem than someone who doesn't have such a predisposition."
(The Shyness & Social Anxiety Workbook, M.Antony Ph.D. & P.Swinson M.D.)
Using the analogy of athletes. Top athletes tend to have both good genetics and they work hard to maximise these genetics. However there are athletes who are genetically very poor but are so determined to succeed that they become the greatest. You can find many examples of bodybuilders who were weak and skinny in their youth, top Boxers who were picked on at school for being small and weak e.t.c They all overcame these genetic limitations through hard work. Even if you can't become a top 'social athlete' I believe anyone no matter what their genetics can become much more socially successful than the average person if they work hard at it and aren't deterred.
It is based on an exercise contained in 'An Idiot's Guide to Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy' ( I was the Idiot who bought it lol) in which the author advocates that people who are fearful of looking foolish in front of others should use exposure to make a public spectacle of themselves. It is also inspired by the work of Joseph Wolpe (1915 – 1997) on flooding. It is an unusual but very effective technique. And yes you will get some negative responses but for the most part people will ignore you. I don't consider this method of exposure to be fool hardy because there is no real danger of physical harm. No one will try to beat you up they may just whisper or make adverse comments. I don't advise anyone to do any type of exposure that could be dangerous to themselves or others.
de
Well-known member
one thing i cant stand about having sa is some of the holier then though attitude i get from people who dont have sa,its not a matter of just exposure, because i have and im sure others have made decisions in there lives to get over there sa nd always wind up in the same circumstances
shield why would you stilll be on this site if you have overcome your sa maybe its to boost your already low self esteem by telling people that they are weak and are making excuses so you can feel good about yourself
you are talking as if we are like this by choice sa is caused by chemical imballances in our brains not from a dislike of social situations
this site iis used as a place for people with sa or other mental illness who have no where to vent there frustartions from everyday life not a place for ignorent fuks like you who have supposedly overcome there sa to tell us things that most of us have heard a thousand times from freinds and family like its all in your head your weak stop making excuses why dont you get down off your high horse or actually better then that why dont you piss off on your high horse somewhere else
shield why would you stilll be on this site if you have overcome your sa maybe its to boost your already low self esteem by telling people that they are weak and are making excuses so you can feel good about yourself
you are talking as if we are like this by choice sa is caused by chemical imballances in our brains not from a dislike of social situations
this site iis used as a place for people with sa or other mental illness who have no where to vent there frustartions from everyday life not a place for ignorent fuks like you who have supposedly overcome there sa to tell us things that most of us have heard a thousand times from freinds and family like its all in your head your weak stop making excuses why dont you get down off your high horse or actually better then that why dont you piss off on your high horse somewhere else
Fairy001
Well-known member
My impression was that Sheild and Silverwolf have worked hard to overcome SA, and are now trying to pass on information for other people to help them.
Surely anixety issues cannot be cured as such, certainly treatable, part of that treatment would be continually working on your problems, still seeking support and venting when necessary?
I think the example of an athlete, with little predisposition for sports, working hard and achieving highly is very apt. I guess when you have radically moved positions, set yourself free, then you wish to let others know their potential.
Peace xxx
Surely anixety issues cannot be cured as such, certainly treatable, part of that treatment would be continually working on your problems, still seeking support and venting when necessary?
I think the example of an athlete, with little predisposition for sports, working hard and achieving highly is very apt. I guess when you have radically moved positions, set yourself free, then you wish to let others know their potential.
Peace xxx
silverwolf
Well-known member
Yes I'm here just 2 help people and I enjoy posting on here because I feel good helping others. I remember being angry at family members giving me advice that I thought was stupid like 'just make friends', 'just get a girlfriend', 'just go out and do it'. All I could think was that these people don't have a clue how hard this is. I looked for sympathy from my brother and sister and recieved it. Sympathy is actually the wost thing for social phobics because it rewards them for having problems and this is what kept me moaning to other people for so long and not taking action. Its very funny and ironic but the 'just do it' attitude is actually really is what you need.
Excuse makers often get frustrated at my posts because they want sympathy not constructive advice because sympathy makes them feel good and constructive advice doesn't. As long as people are being rewarded for having problems they will not want to change they will want to continue being rewarded by being apathetic.
The reason most people don't make progress with exposure is because they practice inconsistently or give up. This is basically what pretty much everyone does that is why recovery is rare.
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Excuse makers often get frustrated at my posts because they want sympathy not constructive advice because sympathy makes them feel good and constructive advice doesn't. As long as people are being rewarded for having problems they will not want to change they will want to continue being rewarded by being apathetic.
The reason most people don't make progress with exposure is because they practice inconsistently or give up. This is basically what pretty much everyone does that is why recovery is rare.
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de
Well-known member
yeah dont get me wrong the metaphor of the athltete was very clever but in reality you are compareing how your brain controls muscles and how your muscles react and use oxygen as fuel to how your brain reacts to different chemicals that its being exposed to when you are thinking or in sociall situations they are 2 completly different things
and im alll for taking peoples advice and have done since ive joined this site which is only recently but to say that we are in this situation because we are weak and that we dont take responsibility for our situation is just bullshit,
i dont have any freinds because i cant act myself and relax when im in the company of others my brain just wont let me function
i have tried countless times over the last year especilly to put myself in situations where i know no one ,force myself to get over it ,but i always fall flat on my face it isnt just a matter of exposure in most cases medication is needed but in reality to use your athlete anology i can practice and practice but i am never going to be as good at it as others
looking for sympathy huh mate i didnt even know i had this until 3 weeks ago and i was diagnosed 2 weeks ago if i didnt have this fukn thing i would be playing professional rugby now, do you honestly think id rather have your sympathy sorry your pity then the alternative
sa has ruined my life im ashamed of having sa and am made to feel ashamed and that im infereior to others whenever i try to bring it up with or explain it with people this site isnt a place to get sympathy and i have never used it to get it ,i tell a story and i get a responce from someone who can relate to it i then do not feel isolated and for a second i dont feel alone that is not looking for sympathy that is called being human
and im alll for taking peoples advice and have done since ive joined this site which is only recently but to say that we are in this situation because we are weak and that we dont take responsibility for our situation is just bullshit,
i dont have any freinds because i cant act myself and relax when im in the company of others my brain just wont let me function
i have tried countless times over the last year especilly to put myself in situations where i know no one ,force myself to get over it ,but i always fall flat on my face it isnt just a matter of exposure in most cases medication is needed but in reality to use your athlete anology i can practice and practice but i am never going to be as good at it as others
looking for sympathy huh mate i didnt even know i had this until 3 weeks ago and i was diagnosed 2 weeks ago if i didnt have this fukn thing i would be playing professional rugby now, do you honestly think id rather have your sympathy sorry your pity then the alternative
sa has ruined my life im ashamed of having sa and am made to feel ashamed and that im infereior to others whenever i try to bring it up with or explain it with people this site isnt a place to get sympathy and i have never used it to get it ,i tell a story and i get a responce from someone who can relate to it i then do not feel isolated and for a second i dont feel alone that is not looking for sympathy that is called being human
silverwolf
Well-known member
Yes it is your responsibility to get out of this. I know you may never accept me saying this. But u aren't that special. There are people in your position, probably a worse one that have overcome social anxiety. When doing exposure you will fall flat on your face every time maybe for months because u will be so nervous you won't be able to think of anything to say or u may blush e.t.c. But exposure is not a matter of weeks it is a matter of months or years. The athlete analogy is not mine it is the words of people who have spent their life studying this disorder. I say these things to u because I DO NOT want you to think that you have no choice in overcoming social phobia. Mate u can do it u can be just as good as others.
de
Well-known member
We cudn't be weak and make excuses, we had to decide to take 100% responsibility for the mess our lives were in.
that was said and it pised me off majorly silverfox and that kind of reponse is the one i get from people who dont know the effort it takes to say walk into a changing room full of people and sit down
this isnt our responsiblity its a burden, i havnt given up and dont like being belittled by people who are miles ahead in terms of progress but to suggest its as easy as consistently putting yourself in these positions isnt true you cant get over sa alone ,everyone needs help whether it be from a freind or words of encouragement from people on this site and im certain that you didnt get over it on your own
and in terms of myself getin over sa ive been consistently trying for 3 years ive made decisions in my life solely on the fact that i wont know anyone and have force myself to do these things on a weekly basis
if exposure was just the case then anyone who went to school wouldnt have sa everyone needs encouragement or an outlet
that was said and it pised me off majorly silverfox and that kind of reponse is the one i get from people who dont know the effort it takes to say walk into a changing room full of people and sit down
this isnt our responsiblity its a burden, i havnt given up and dont like being belittled by people who are miles ahead in terms of progress but to suggest its as easy as consistently putting yourself in these positions isnt true you cant get over sa alone ,everyone needs help whether it be from a freind or words of encouragement from people on this site and im certain that you didnt get over it on your own
and in terms of myself getin over sa ive been consistently trying for 3 years ive made decisions in my life solely on the fact that i wont know anyone and have force myself to do these things on a weekly basis
if exposure was just the case then anyone who went to school wouldnt have sa everyone needs encouragement or an outlet
Fairy001
Well-known member
If you have only very recently been diagnosed then it will take some time to sink in. That is not to say that you have not lived with this disorder for alot longer.
I think these guys are trying to offer advice, one of the key aspects being taking responsibility. In my experience it is not possible to solve these problems in a matter of weeks. I have been a work in progress for seven and half years! I have found with my disorders that I have HAD to do the bulk of my healing on my own. I do not dispute for one minute that support is vital. Friends, family and sites such as this.
Perhaps the point is at the end of the day it IS all down to us whether we choose to get better. Not choice as in, hmmm, what biscuit shall I have with my coffee, choice as in I will keep taking risks. Even though I feel uncomfortable, paranoid and vunerable, I will keep putting myself out there.
I remember my diagnosis being given to me, and being shell shocked for a long time. I was in a psychiatric unit under section, had no real grasp of reality at the time. I was not diagnosed with SA in a hospital, I have never been diagnosed with SA, however other mental health problems impact and share the same syptoms. In my experience you have to allow some time to pass to accept what you have been told is wrong with you. A difficult, cold and lonely time, for me anyway. Thank goodness there are sites such as these for people to share advice and experience.
Peace xxx
I think these guys are trying to offer advice, one of the key aspects being taking responsibility. In my experience it is not possible to solve these problems in a matter of weeks. I have been a work in progress for seven and half years! I have found with my disorders that I have HAD to do the bulk of my healing on my own. I do not dispute for one minute that support is vital. Friends, family and sites such as this.
Perhaps the point is at the end of the day it IS all down to us whether we choose to get better. Not choice as in, hmmm, what biscuit shall I have with my coffee, choice as in I will keep taking risks. Even though I feel uncomfortable, paranoid and vunerable, I will keep putting myself out there.
I remember my diagnosis being given to me, and being shell shocked for a long time. I was in a psychiatric unit under section, had no real grasp of reality at the time. I was not diagnosed with SA in a hospital, I have never been diagnosed with SA, however other mental health problems impact and share the same syptoms. In my experience you have to allow some time to pass to accept what you have been told is wrong with you. A difficult, cold and lonely time, for me anyway. Thank goodness there are sites such as these for people to share advice and experience.
Peace xxx
silverwolf
Well-known member
I have said my piece. The information on how to get better is out there. I think debating this out may be going in circles because we have different but equally strong beliefs. If anyone here wants to share anything with me feel free to pm me and I will give u my take on it. Peace xxx
Marie_knowsbest
Well-known member
the on going thing i find on this site, and please no one take this the wrong way is that :
you have people who just read the posts and give a little comment back and give it a shot.
you have people who have maybe tried it and it hasnt worked but add some feedback about it.
and then u have people who find every excuse under the sun why this and that wont help them because they have this, was born with this, have always been like this and i could go on with more examples. but mainly just find negatives in any advice they are given.
when people make excuses of why they cant do something, to me it says they are trying to justify why they are in their current situation and why they remain there and that is exactly why they remain there, because its just denial. no one is born with social phobia like no one is born with the gift to chat for hours, this is proven because when we are born we cannot physically talk.
i happen to think the underwear thing is a excellant idea!! because u will proberly get the most negative comments, wierd looks u will ever have in your life!! and if you can have the streangh to deal with that, something like walking into a shop and paying for some milk will seem like absalutly nothing!! fair play to u two as well, i havent got SA and i couldnt do that! lol.
i am very proud of both of you for taking responsibilty for yourselfs and just gettin out there and doing it! so well done!
i went through a patch where people made me feel nervous thats how i found this site actualy!!. so i decided walking down the street one day, i would make sure i made eye contact with everyone i passed, and i found 9 times outa 10 they would smile at me! mainly because they got nervous too and alot of people smile or laugh with strangers when their nervous! which made me think, ya know what...we all get nervous, its not a problem!
you have people who just read the posts and give a little comment back and give it a shot.
you have people who have maybe tried it and it hasnt worked but add some feedback about it.
and then u have people who find every excuse under the sun why this and that wont help them because they have this, was born with this, have always been like this and i could go on with more examples. but mainly just find negatives in any advice they are given.
when people make excuses of why they cant do something, to me it says they are trying to justify why they are in their current situation and why they remain there and that is exactly why they remain there, because its just denial. no one is born with social phobia like no one is born with the gift to chat for hours, this is proven because when we are born we cannot physically talk.
i happen to think the underwear thing is a excellant idea!! because u will proberly get the most negative comments, wierd looks u will ever have in your life!! and if you can have the streangh to deal with that, something like walking into a shop and paying for some milk will seem like absalutly nothing!! fair play to u two as well, i havent got SA and i couldnt do that! lol.
i am very proud of both of you for taking responsibilty for yourselfs and just gettin out there and doing it! so well done!
i went through a patch where people made me feel nervous thats how i found this site actualy!!. so i decided walking down the street one day, i would make sure i made eye contact with everyone i passed, and i found 9 times outa 10 they would smile at me! mainly because they got nervous too and alot of people smile or laugh with strangers when their nervous! which made me think, ya know what...we all get nervous, its not a problem!
de
Well-known member
and then u have people who find every excuse under the sun why this and that wont help them because they have this, was born with this, have always been like this and i could go on with more examples. but mainly just find negatives in any advice they are given.
when people make excuses of why they cant do something, to me it says they are trying to justify why they are in their current situation and why they remain there and that is exactly why they remain there, because its just denial. no one is born with social phobia like no one is born with the gift to chat for hours, this is proven because when we are born we cannot physically talk.
yeah its true but we are born with pre disposions to either fast twich muscles or slow twitch like we are are made with pre dispositions to being good talkers or not i make no apologys about my situation and i have no freinds because of me not anyone else and fail to see any advice in someone saying that i am weak i dont want sa and someone saying its just a matter of mind over matter is bullshit because i have gone through hell with addictions and for someone to say sa is just a matter of mind over matter is rediculous
when people make excuses of why they cant do something, to me it says they are trying to justify why they are in their current situation and why they remain there and that is exactly why they remain there, because its just denial. no one is born with social phobia like no one is born with the gift to chat for hours, this is proven because when we are born we cannot physically talk.
yeah its true but we are born with pre disposions to either fast twich muscles or slow twitch like we are are made with pre dispositions to being good talkers or not i make no apologys about my situation and i have no freinds because of me not anyone else and fail to see any advice in someone saying that i am weak i dont want sa and someone saying its just a matter of mind over matter is bullshit because i have gone through hell with addictions and for someone to say sa is just a matter of mind over matter is rediculous
Fairy001
Well-known member
I don't think it is just a case of mind over matter, I think it is alot more complex than that. Any anixety or phobia has many dimensions. For most I think it is a mixture of nature and nuture. You have to have a genetic predisposition to suffer with these conditions. However, once you know what the problem is, then the work begins. I am NOT suggesting that anyone is not working to get over their problems, joining this site is a step. Sometimes we have to take giant leaps of faith to change and improve our lives. This is so hard, but, as Sheild and Silver have proven, possible. That was their solution, not for everyone I am sure! I guess we all have to find our own way out. I do agree with the fundamentals of exposure, I believe it doesn't matter how many times we fall down, what matters is whether we get up again.
Peace xxx
Peace xxx