For all the guys who keep getting stuck in the "friendzone"...

[Jay Cataldo]

First off, I'm not at all letting out my anger at you, I'm simply just stating my opinion on the subject and criticizing your methods.

You're not angry? My bad. I couldn't think of any other reason why you would try to insult me simply because you didn't agree with my point of view.

And still don't see how you're "criticizing my methods." What methods are you criticizing? It just looks like you have an issue with humans being compared to animals in any way, for any reason. So let me pose my question again: What's wrong with making these comparisons if they help increase our understanding of the human condition?

The one who seems to let his instinct control his mind seems to be you, not me, so calm down and don't act like a child. I've done nothing wrong, I'm not insulting you or your character {wherever that one came from?}

Accusing someone of "seeing girls as animals and not humans" isn't an insult? Was it meant to be a compliment? And what about this: "dont act like a child"

I certainly won't apologise.

Fair enough.

If you find critics offensive you should go back to elementary school and start all over again on how to debate.

Good point. Although, I don't have a problem with critics who criticize my material. I do, however, find some personal attacks to be offensive, especially when they border on libel and defamation of character.

And since I'm in need of a lesson on the etiquette of a proper, civilized debate please answer the following question: Am I making a mistake by attacking your arguments instead of attacking you personally by accusing you of being "childish" and "seeing all women as animals and not humans?" - I was notorious for napping in elementary debate class.

I'd in fact suggest you stop using the straw man's arguments. That list in the bottom of your post are good advises, and I've not described them as "bad advice", so stop putting words in my mouth. Are you man enough to realize this childish way of debating?

The list in the bottom of the post (and the statement following it) was addressed to everyone following this thread, not just you.

And you did say "Reminds me a lot of PUA, hence the fact that I can't take it too seriously," and I assume that anything that shouldn't be taken seriously can be considered bad advice. Is that too much of a logical leap? Then I apologize... let me rephrase the statement: Please explain why you think the advice in the list should not be taken seriously.

And please point out how I used a straw man argument as opposed to addressing your original positions. I'm pretty sure I addressed everything you said point by point.

I think you know what I mean when talking about intelligence over instincts.

I understand the concept but I don't see the point you're trying to make with it.

We don't drag a pretty girl back to our hideouts and shag her just because she's attractive.

Really? Even been to a bar or club? These places are primarily designed to give men the opportunity to attempt to drag a girl back to his hideout and shag her, for no other reason than she's attractive and he's horny. I'm not sure if guys still prefer to club girls over the head, since alcohol seems to be equally effective in large amounts. And occasionally, you'll even hear stories of some sick bastard resorting to roofies.

Now, you might be far too cultured and civilized to even consider an act such as this, but I assure you that a large percentage of the world's population has not yet evolved beyond this stage.

We don't challenge other guys to a fight where the winner take them all.

Really? Ever been to a bar or club? In some of these places, men "fight" with their humor, stories, body language, etc. in order to win the favor of the girl they're attracted to (some even throw punches when they seem to be "losing"). I'm not sure if some guys are able to leave with ALL the girls in the club, but I've seen guys walk out with two or three on their arms, for sure.

We act like humans, talk, impress, make jokes, stories, use body language to gain a girl's attention, hence the fact that we use our intelligence. Or at least should use our intelligence, first and foremost.

Humans talk.... and animals also talk (aka communicate with sounds).

Humans impress... and animals also impress (with the size of their nests, food supply, etc. and peacocks will show off their feathers).

Humans make jokes.... animals.... well.... my dog thinks it's funny when he pees on my bed. Not sure if this counts.

Humans tell stories... animals... ummm... do Disney stories count?

Humans use body language to gain a female's attention... and so do many (if not all) animals.

So you're saying that when animals do all this stuff, they are just going on "instinct" but when humans do it, they are always using "intelligence?"

And again, why is it "wrong" to compare humans to animals?

And more importantly, what point are you trying to make? How does the assertion that we "should use our intelligence first and foremost" relate to what we're talking about?

All in all I'm addressing the very content of your post: to use the tactics and skills a male dog uses to control his bitch, then transform it into human methods.

Maybe this is where you're confused. Let me ask a few questions...

1. By giving a woman affection and sex and not allowing her to walk all over you, are you in essence, "controlling" her?

2. Does praising your woman's accomplishments lead you to have more "control" over her?

3. By not allowing yourself to be dragged around like a kid by your girl, are you now "controlling" her?

4. When you ignore her when she's being nasty to you, are you now in "control" of her?

5. By becoming more decisive and making an effort to "lead" in the relationship, does this mean you now have total "control"?

If you're looking for ways to control women, I think you need to go speak to Chris Brown because, from what I hear, beating a woman senseless and crushing her self-esteem to the point where she believes she deserves abuse is a much more effective form of control than anything I proposed. You might also want to speak to the guy that kept his daughter locked up in the cellar for years. Cellars are always good for control. Also, the movie The Manchurian Candidate might have some useful tips.

Oh, and magic wands. Always effective in a pinch.

Sorry... I'm being childish again.

 

[Danfalc]

I agree somewhat. I just have a problem with this being in the social anxiety section. Put it in the 'meeting people' section or the 'friendship and love' section or something, so I don't have to read it about snaring women by comparing their actions and needs to the behaviour of dogs, when I want to read and get advice on SA.

Agreed im going to move this to the meeting people section.

 

[Havocan]

You're not angry? My bad. I couldn't think of any other reason why you would try to insult me simply because you didn't agree with my point of view.

Hahahaha.

So let me pose my question again: What's wrong with making these comparisons if they help increase our understanding of the human condition?

Nothing wrong with that at all, the problem is that you're imposing that humans have the exact same way of living as animals, and behave in the same way. You've got to understand that you cannot draw that close parallels to humans-animals since our minds aren't the same. Guys who want a girl don't go peeing to mark their territory, hunt down other guys to challenge them for a fight and then try to procreate with as many girls as possible.

Accusing someone of "seeing girls as animals and not humans" isn't an insult? Was it meant to be a compliment? And what about this: "dont act like a child"

It's not an insult, it's a fact. If I had called you names, made comments on your looks {if I'd seen a photo of you} and so on, that would have been an insult. You're of course free to see it as a compliment, if that's what you want. You act like a child when you get upset when someone challenges you to state your views by expressing disagreement on your work. If you're that sensitive about critics, then you certainly possess the brains of a child.

Good point. Although, I don't have a problem with critics who criticize my material. I do, however, find some personal attacks to be offensive, especially when they border on libel and defamation of character.

Again, those are the words of a child. It's honestly one of the worst exaggerations you've made so far.

And since I'm in need of a lesson on the etiquette of a proper, civilized debate please answer the following question: Am I making a mistake by attacking your arguments instead of attacking you personally by accusing you of being "childish" and "seeing all women as animals and not humans?"

You're making a mistake when you think I'm attacking you and your character. This is yet another example on how a spoiled-away brat acts when it doesn't get any sweets. If you honestly don't see that my point with
""seeing all women as animals and not humans?" is that you base your views on the wrong assumptions, and that it doesn't mean I'm attacking your personality, then you're exhibiting the views of a psycho. And I've explained why I think you're debating in a childish way.

And you did say "Reminds me a lot of PUA, hence the fact that I can't take it too seriously," and I assume that anything that shouldn't be taken seriously can be considered bad advice. Is that too much of a logical leap? Then I apologize... let me rephrase the statement: Please explain why you think the advice in the list should not be taken seriously.

And please point out how I used a straw man argument as opposed to addressing your original positions. I'm pretty sure I addressed everything you said point by point.

When you encouraged me to reread the list and explain why I supposedly thought they were "bad advice" you accused me of saying something I didn't do - hence the use of the straw man argument.

As for the PUA-thing I simply cannot take manipulation techniques to shag as many girls as possible seriously when it's promoted as "how to get a girlfriend" when all it does is to develop skills and methods to trick their minds so that they'll consider you "more special" than any other bloke out there when in reality you're not. Let state that this of course applies to PUA in general and since I didn't see the PUA word used in your blog it was not meant against your work, but the text in the blog reminded me about PUA.

When I say I can't take things seriously that doesn't mean they're bad advises, you're jumping to conclusions again^^.

Really? Even been to a bar or club? These places are primarily designed to give men the opportunity to attempt to drag a girl back to his hideout and shag her, for no other reason than she's attractive and he's horny.

Now, you might be far too cultured and civilized to even consider an act such as this, but I assure you that a large percentage of the world's population has not yet evolved beyond this stage.

Oh dear - I should start a club to convert all those cavemen into proper, civilised human beings, would you care to join it? I'm sure I can give you a special discount. Those clubs you refer to, what kind of men go there? The same ones who go to strip bars, who consider a rape a worthy deed because they're so horny; predominantly male chauvinists.

Really? Ever been to a bar or club? In some of these places, men "fight" with their humor, stories, body language, etc. in order to win the favor of the girl they're attracted to (some even throw punches when they seem to be "losing"). I'm not sure if some guys are able to leave with ALL the girls in the club, but I've seen guys walk out with two or three on their arms, for sure.

Hmmm...you're actually just proving my point here. These so-called "fights" are not with the fists, they're "mental fights", again the use of intelligence over instinct.

Humans talk.... and animals also talk (aka communicate with sounds).

Humans impress... and animals also impress (with the size of their nests, food supply, etc. and peacocks will show off their feathers).

Humans make jokes.... animals.... well.... my dog thinks it's funny when he pees on my bed. Not sure if this counts.

Humans tell stories... animals... ummm... do Disney stories count?

Hahahaha. I've never seen a male bug telling his girlfriend bug with a French accent and a very passionate voice how much he loves her. Talking is of course not just using sounds to communicate, you have to use passion, voice pitching, and so on.

So you're saying that when animals do all this stuff, they are just going on "instinct" but when humans do it, they are always using "intelligence?"

And more importantly, what point are you trying to make? How does the assertion that we "should use our intelligence first and foremost" relate to what we're talking about?

Considering your points on the bar situations, it seems almost as if you're trying to say that humans use our instincts and should too, over our intelligence, that's what I mean about using our intelligence. And not acting like dogs do.
In general I mean that humans have more developed brains than animals and have a greater intellect. If that's taken us where we are today then it would be smarter to use that over the instinct, don't you think?

Maybe this is where you're confused. Let me ask a few questions...

1. By giving a woman affection and sex and not allowing her to walk all over you, are you in essence, "controlling" her?

2. Does praising your woman's accomplishments lead you to have more "control" over her?

3. By not allowing yourself to be dragged around like a kid by your girl, are you now "controlling" her?

4. When you ignore her when she's being nasty to you, are you now in "control" of her?

5. By becoming more decisive and making an effort to "lead" in the relationship, does this mean you now have total "control"?

If you're looking for ways to control women, I think you need to go speak to Chris Brown because, from what I hear, beating a woman senseless and crushing her self-esteem to the point where she believes she deserves abuse is a much more effective form of control than anything I proposed. You might also want to speak to the guy that kept his daughter locked up in the cellar for years. Cellars are always good for control. Also, the movie The Manchurian Candidate might have some useful tips.

Oh, and magic wands. Always effective in a pinch.

Sorry... I'm being childish again.

If you follow these points in the list at the bottom of your post, you'll eventually become in total control of the girl since you always must have the final word, and since it seems like a total loss if she wins an argument. God forbid she has a life on her own. I think I actually may have to speak to you if I want to control a woman, since when looking away from that list, you obviously know where to search for control inspirational sources. Perhaps you where the Austrian cellar father's secret apprentice?

 

[SickJoke]

Hahaha, typical. No valid arguments, just personal attacks. Havin fun jay?

 

[j_brown2]

If you follow these points in the list at the bottom of your post, you'll eventually become in total control of the girl since you always must have the final word, and since it seems like a total loss if she wins an argument. God forbid she has a life on her own. I think I actually may have to speak to you if I want to control a woman, since when looking away from that list, you obviously know where to search for control inspirational sources. Perhaps you where the Austrian cellar father's secret apprentice?

I find that thinkin irrational (delusional)

 

[Jay Cataldo]

Nothing wrong with that at all, the problem is that you're imposing that humans have the exact same way of living as animals, and behave in the same way.

Am I proposing that we are the “exact same way” or that there are similarities?

You've got to understand that you cannot draw that close parallels to humans-animals since our minds aren't the same.

Again, not exactly the same, but there are many similarities. And since researchers still continue to draw close parallels, you might want to take up your argument with them. Familiar with Paul MacLean’s work? Triune Brain Theory

Keep your “intelligence over instinct argument” in mind while reading the following: “It had previously been assumed that the highest level of the brain, the neocortex, dominates the other, lower levels. MacLean has shown that this is not the case, and that the physically lower limbic system, which rules emotions, can hijack the higher mental functions when it needs to.”

Guys who want a girl don't go peeing to mark their territory

True. But humans also mark their territory... they just use different methods to do so.

guys don’t hunt down other guys to challenge them for a fight

Nobody’s ever hunted down another guy to challenge him to a fight because of a woman?

guys don’t try to procreate with as many girls as possible.

No guy has ever gone through a stage of attempting to procreate with as many girls as possible? Isn’t this one of the driving motivations behind pledging a fraternity?

It's not an insult, it's a fact.

I’m sure you realize the futility of debating someone who doesn’t understand the difference between “fact” and “opinion.”

If I had called you names, made comments on your looks {if I'd seen a photo of you} and so on, that would have been an insult.

Before you attempt to redefine the term, let’s consult the dictionary:

Insult: an insolent or contemptuously rude action or remark; affront.

But don’t fret. Nothing you said bothered me in the least. That was just my way of attempting to maneuver you away from attacking me personally, and steer you back to attacking the material in the article. However, it looks like…

you certainly possess the brains of a child.

…I’ve failed miserably. ::

Again, those are the words of a child. It's honestly one of the worst exaggerations you've made so far.

The three lawyers in my family are convinced that you never went to law school.

You're making a mistake when you think I'm attacking you and your character. This is yet another example on how a spoiled-away brat acts when it doesn't get any sweets.

Nope. No mistake. But I do tend to cry when someone takes away my gummy bears.

If you honestly don't see that my point with "seeing all women as animals and not humans?" is that you base your views on the wrong assumptions, and that it doesn't mean I'm attacking your personality, then you're exhibiting the views of a psycho.

Again, you seem to have a problem with simple logic. Let’s get this straight… you’re saying that if I honestly don’t see your point… it means that... I’m “exhibiting the views of a psycho.” LOL So if you don’t see my point that almost everything you’re saying is based on your personal opinions (and not backed up with facts) then by your logic, doesn’t this mean you’re also “exhibiting the views of a psycho?”

I can’t believe I’m having this conversation. Sickjoke, I feel your pain, man. lol

When you encouraged me to reread the list and explain why I supposedly thought they were "bad advice" you accused me of saying something I didn't do - hence the use of the straw man argument.

I explained that that statement was addressed to everyone, not just yourself. I apologize for the confusion.

As for the PUA-thing I simply cannot take manipulation techniques to shag as many girls as possible seriously when it's promoted as "how to get a girlfriend" when all it does is to develop skills and methods to trick their minds so that they'll consider you "more special" than any other bloke out there when in reality you're not. Let state that this of course applies to PUA in general and since I didn't see the PUA word used in your blog it was not meant against your work, but the text in the blog reminded me about PUA.

Understood.

Oh dear - I should start a club to convert all those cavemen into proper, civilised human beings, would you care to join it? I'm sure I can give you a special discount. Those clubs you refer to, what kind of men go there? The same ones who go to strip bars, who consider a rape a worthy deed because they're so horny; predominantly male chauvinists.

So all men who go to clubs “consider rape a worthy deed?” Would you also say that this statement is a “fact” and not just your opinion (which may also be considered insulting to male clubbers)? It’s interesting how your mind works.

Hmmm... you're actually just proving my point here. These so-called "fights" are not with the fists, they're "mental fights", again the use of intelligence over instinct.

What point did I prove? You said: “We don't challenge other guys to a fight where the winner take them all.” You didn’t specify the type of fight.

Fight:
1. a battle or combat
2. any contest or struggle
3. an angry argument or disagreement

And again, both animals and humans can choose to “fight” either physically, or by using other strategies (i.e. body language, intimidation, etc.)

The real issue here is that you seem to have a serious problem with someone “drawing close parallels between humans and animals.” I can’t understand why you would feel this way since it’s a practice that has helped “take us humans where we are today”, but your point of view is perfectly valid.

Hahahaha. I've never seen a male bug telling his girlfriend bug with a French accent and a very passionate voice how much he loves her.

So now bugs are animals and not insects? Back to elementary school I must go.

Talking is of course not just using sounds to communicate, you have to use passion, voice pitching, and so on.

You “have to use passion and voice pitching” to talk? You’ve never met a person who speaks in monotone? Maybe I should introduce you to my elementary school debate teacher.

Considering your points on the bar situations, it seems almost as if you're trying to say that humans use our instincts and should too, over our intelligence

It may “seem almost as if” to you… but it’s not really what I said, is it?

In general I mean that humans have more developed brains than animals and have a greater intellect. If that's taken us where we are today then it would be smarter to use that over the instinct, don't you think?

The point I made was that humans don’t always choose to “use their intelligence over their instincts.” Whether this is “smart” or not is an entirely different argument.

If you follow these points in the list at the bottom of your post, you'll eventually become in total control of the girl since you always must have the final word, and since it seems like a total loss if she wins an argument. God forbid she has a life on her own.

I’m just curious… how would you know for sure that those points would lead to “total control of a girl?” Have you used them in the past and found yourself in total control of someone? If you have, then please teach me your secrets, because my mentor “the cellar master” must have been holding out on me.

Now since you implied that these techniques are controlling and manipulative, then I’m guessing you feel that having any type of control over a woman is “bad.” If this is true, then we finally both agree on something.

However, you did write this:

I'd rather go for good, old-fashioned politeness where I'm still the one in charge.

So being in charge of a woman is acceptable by your standards but being in control is not? Is it also wrong for me to draw parallels between the two terms?

Perhaps you where the Austrian cellar father's secret apprentice?

Yes I was. Did you catch me on Oprah last week?

Anyways, this thread is going nowhere so let’s end it before the moderators shut it down. No hard feelings and I appreciate you helping me keep the thread up top so more people could check out my article.

I’m going back to my cellar now.

 

[Havocan]

Anyways, this thread is going nowhere so let’s end it before the moderators shut it down.

Agreed. Good to see you finally try to behave appropriately.

 

[j_brown2]

Your signature says it all lol

 

[NormanBates]

Is this the drama that you were talking about, Sick Joke?
sounds like a ... sick joke

 

[NormanBates]

Anyway, before anyone mentioned anything about controlling women or whatever, I was even following this topic because I think that people really are an animal too and like all animals a person has feelings and responds to negative and positive stimuli.

I did want to watch more episodes so I could take tips, even though I have no natural drive to be assertive and it wouldn't be all much helpful anyway.

The dog whisperer is a good example of somebody who's just assertive, but maybe that goes to show that there are some who should own dogs and some who should just enjoy other people's dogs.

 

[SickJoke]

Is this the drama that you were talking about, Sick Joke?
sounds like a ... sick joke

Yep that's pretty much it. I kind of enjoy it actually.

And Jay's getting a bunch of traffic on his blog from it. Drama is like free marketing.