Diversity

[aj]

When you try to define how things are, for example how people act, when you look in real life you'll find that not everyone will actually fit that image, right? Some will but some won't. Maybe you'll even find that most people have a diferent idea. Oh the diversity of life, hmph.

So with the pick up artist stuff that is out there... I'm not saying it's wrong, obviously, but surely for every person who does act in the 'expected' way, there's another who doesn't care and just wants a nice person who isn't necessarily a PUA. No, I don't mean someone who doesn't try at all. But, in fact, yes, people like that as well. Or a million other things. They're out there somewhere aren't they?

Same goes for making friends. Surely there's someone out there for everyone? If you've gone through school, college and work, how can you not have made one true relationship of any kind?

So, um... yeah.

 

[worrywort]

yea I totally agree....although I think the further removed a person is from mainstream popular culture [i.e. the weirder you are], the harder it is to find other people similar to you......BUT, I also think that when you do find someone similar to you it'll be way more special.

 

[aj]

Yeah. Just a shame that there is no reason why you will definitely one day meet that person isn't it.

Not sure if it matters for me. I felt like seeing what eHarmony would come up with for me the other day. If you haven't used it, they make you fill in a fairly large questionnaire about yourself to match you with other people. I am the greyest, most boring there could be. The site didn't come up with one match, and that was after I expanded my search area a lot. What the hell do you do with that? I don't want to know me, I don't know why anyone else would. Well, they don't. ::

 

[worrywort]

I used eharmoney once before too, but nothing much ever happened. I think it's a bit quiet really. Maybe you could try OkCupid, it's free and a lot busier I reckon. I wouldn't worry too much about seeming boring, most people lie on their profiles anyway!

you don't seem boring tho, you seem like an honest, deep thinking kinda guy, and if that's you in your pictures you're definitely blessed in the looks department too! Try Okcupid, I reckon you'll have the ladies flocking in no time!

 

[aj]

I've had a look on OkCupid now and I can't believe it's free. It's fantastic. Haha, yeah, I wish I had them flocking. Nothing yet. Thanks for being nice about me, shame I find it hard to believe you anyway, it's the shirt making me look good, lol.

So, this one or this one? Trying my hardest to look interesting. Shame I have to take all my pictures in my bedroom. Can't believe I'm putting pictures of myself on the internet. Eek.

 

[worrywort]

hmm....I think both look nice.....it's good to have a few pics so that people can see the different sides to your personality....I like the first, in the blue shirt, cause you look kinda grungy and cool, but the second you look kinda humble and friendly so both are good I'd say! whack em both on!....and good luck! I hope you have some success with OKCupid!

 

[klytus]

On OkCupid you must not wait for people - in this case, women - to message you, for they will most certainly not. You must message them, preferably after having read their profile, in an elaborate fashion. Not too elaborate, though, to not come on too strong, but you must use (nearly) perfect English, and convey in your very first message that you found them sufficiently interesting to read their entire profile. Ideally, you do that by commenting on information they published about themselves on their profile.

And it is essential to answer many questions and complete your profile. Don't participate in the forums, unless you have only neutral or positive things to say. Do not complain about not finding anyone on the OkCupid forums, as women you message will look you up on the forums.

The pictures are useless, sorry. Get pictures of you outside, or where you are seen with friends of yours, with good image quality. Ideally in realistic (not acted) situations. Smile. Look friendly and approachable. The environment you are in must be uplifting - not dark; it must be comfortable, natural and/or convey a positive part of your personality. Your pictures will be the first thing women will look at, and they will be very superficial when they judge to respond to your message or not, as they have countlessly more men to choose from.

Complete your profile. Supply elaborate paragraphs for all blocks that you are supposed to fill in. Mind your language and pay attention to grammatical correctness. No "txt-spk". Talk almost exclusively about the positive aspects of your personality; do not lie, as sooner or later she will find out. Nor are you to misrepresent your situation - but that would count as a lie, anyway. If your situation is unprovidential, do not mention it in detail. Do not self-loathe on your profile, or in your messages.

I think you get the picture.

One more piece of advice: Most women will not respond. Do not despair. They will not tell you that they aren't interested in you, either, so don't ask again. If no response arrives, she evaluated you as unworthy of interaction, or hasn't read the message yet - wait at least a week. The reason why women don't respond to every single message they get is simple: They get likely hundreds every week. While they wade through all these - mostly sexually motivated - messages, they pick out those they found interesting on the first sight, and will discard all others without further notice. Given that people usually have lives, you cannot expect them to respond to every single message that they aren't interested, especially as most men react to such rejections aggressively by verbally lashing out at them, calling them names, etc.

 

[anomicdeer]

yea I totally agree....although I think the further removed a person is from mainstream popular culture [i.e. the weirder you are], the harder it is to find other people similar to you......BUT, I also think that when you do find someone similar to you it'll be way more special.

I agree with you on that part.

 

[aj]

hmm....I think both look nice.....it's good to have a few pics so that people can see the different sides to your personality....I like the first, in the blue shirt, cause you look kinda grungy and cool, but the second you look kinda humble and friendly so both are good I'd say! whack em both on!....and good luck! I hope you have some success with OKCupid!

Thanks. 'Grungy'... nobody's ever called me that before!

@klytus - Thank you, yes, most of that I have been trying to do already. I've sent a few messages already but I can see that they haven't even looked at my profile yet. Each message is about things in their profile and I'm trying to use a good subject line. If I can't get one reply, then it's either ridiculously hard, or it's down to the photos. I thought they wouldn't be much good but:

or where you are seen with friends of yours

is impossible right now. Half of the point of this is to try to find someone who might become a friend so might finally get to feel what it's like. Anything else is a bonus. I have (literally) a couple of photos from when I've gone along for a drink after work - not friends, but then again they're not to know that - but they're awful. If I had a chance to take them again now, they'd be better, but that could take forever. I did try taking one in the car, but that just looks weird. Taking one of myself when I'm walking around somewhere is a possibility... but only when the weather clears up a bit, because it's wet and cold at the moment, and I can't wear what I'd want to.

And that all brings this back nicely to my original question - although I am not trying to rely on it, there must be some leeway in the way women use the site. My profile/photos/messages are fairly okay, and so if I send enough messages, I must eventually get to talk to someone, surely.

 

[klytus]

And that all brings this back nicely to my original question - although I am not trying to rely on it, there must be some leeway in the way women use the site. My profile/photos/messages are fairly okay

Well, the solution is in being picky but not too picky. Don't message people who you find uninteresting based on their profile, but don't don't message someone based on one or two aspects that you might not be okay with, like, say, the person is a smoker. I dislike the smoke, but I could easily put up with it, if essentially necessary.

As I said in my post, one issue with the pictures is that they look negative. I, of course, know and understand the reason that underlies this fact. One additional problem is that you take them yourself - don't you have an option for a countdown, such that you can get into a reasonable distance from the lens? Perhaps think of getting professional photos, which are not -too- expensive.

The negative impression I have of the photos is mainly due to the fact that they are rather dark. It's not necessary to take some outside, but it'd be great to take them at some place that conveys positivity - like a bright library, or a greenhouse-based tropical garden, a butterfly zoo (pretty places and can create really lovely situations, like a butterfly landing on your nose), ...

The clothes you wear are more irrelevant than you might think. It's the situation you are in which is paramount.

and so if I send enough messages, I must eventually get to talk to someone, surely.

That is true, but all this is about minimizing the number of messages that you need. A perfectly wonderful person might discard and ignore you based on the fact that, say, your photos were unappealing to her.

Half of the point of this is to try to find someone who might become a friend so might finally get to feel what it's like

Then you should possibly message guys, too. Most, if not all, women on the page are there mainly to find the 'man of their dreams' (something they can't easily do in real-life, because most women on OkCupid are rather sophisticated and occupied with their academic careers), and are very much not interested in a platonic friendship with a guy.

Another thing. If you do find someone you like and can have great conversations with, and think to be able to keep that up indefinitely, then do not wait too long before making a move, like meeting up in real-life. If you need a reason, here it is: Chances are high that she will be having more than one conversation at the same time with different people, simply because of the higher diversity and easier means of contacting that women have as an advantage. If you wait too long before lifting the interpersonal relationship to a higher, more intimate level, the online conversation will gradually die off and the contact will be lost.

 

[aj]

What about in the garden? Hardly ideal but a little better? Yes, I do have a tripod and timer, but it's either a good quality indoor photo from a proper camera, or a hideous quality one of me out and about from a camera phone. I suppose I could use my compact camera but it's still hard for me to do with other people around, at home or anywhere else. In fact it's probably worse at home because I will have an audience and the inevitable 'what are you doing' whining (not necessarily from my parents) and that puts me off completely.

I could ask people at work what they think, but as they're not friends they just aren't going to care and will say 'yeah' to anything I suggest.

I have fields out of the back of where I live, maybe a little odd but could I do something with that? Or around the New Forest (here - it isn't all forest)? Would be easier because at least I'd be able to get away from people, kind of.

 

[klytus]

Forests are wonderful places, of course. But I'd wait for the weather to clear up a bit; Sunshine is what you need. Prefer situation over quality. (What keeps you from taking the 'proper' camera outside with you?)

it's still hard for me to do with other people around, at home or anywhere else. In fact it's probably worse at home because I will have an audience and the inevitable 'what are you doing' whining (not necessarily from my parents) and that puts me off completely.

I need not remind you that the search for a potential mate or platonic friend is reliably going to fail if you build it upon the inner hope that a particular person is going to help you get out and overcome your problems. "what are you doing" is a perfectly reasonable question, and there will be lots of situations in your future life where you will be required to explain yourself. I am sure, however, that all this isn't news to you.

 

[aj]

Yeah, it isn't news. But at home, every little thing I do out of the ordinary is scrutinised (probably not as much as it feels, but it's still like someone standing over me), and I am talked to like an idiot. The 'I shouldn't care what they think' attitude is fragile and being asked what I'm doing, knowing I'm being watched, brings the whole thing crashing down.

This is probably why I stopped trying and stopped doing what the other kids did. I am gradually getting it back: for example, until 2000 or so, I thought that the music at the time was crap like the rest of my family did (and still does), and obviously that didn't help with making friends. Then I got my first MP3 player, actually started listening to it, and I realised that I... liked stuff.

In real life, it's fine telling yourself that what you're doing is okay, but having just one other person that you respect doing it makes it a million times easier than mind tricks do.

I can't carry a big camera around with me because I have social anxiety - sorry, but that's how it is. I am making progress and hopefully soon it won't bother me as much; I don't know.

 

[JCS008]

I don't think I can ever be with someone who is like me.

 

[aj]

If you do start talking to someone, how does it get to the point of asking them if they want to go further (ie. meet up)... just like in real life, I can't really imagine how it's done, I've never done it, and nobody's ever done it with me. You can have mediocre conversations indefinitely without ever getting anywhere, how do you avoid that? Obviously if the conversation doesn't become good fairly easily then it isn't mean to be, but besides that?

 

[klytus]

The point is, if you met someone online who you find physically attractive and have things in common with - which lead to good, pleasant conversations - then you shouldn't wait and just ask whether to meet up.

And do it quickly. Do not wait for too long, because that might lead to unreasonable expectations on both sides and eventually to a disappointing meet-up later.

How it's done? It's simple. "You know, I could imagine us having this conversation indefinitely; it's really cool/pleasant/great/... so I'd love to meet up with you. Fancy <some innocent activity, informal - like, drinking coffee> at <some public place, not too high-class, informal> this weekend?" -- This can be worded in myriad ways. Just write what you feel like writing.

You should really like the conversations and have an innermost wish to meet up. So, saying "our conversations are pretty cool, I'd love to meet you" after the third, or forth mail is inappropriate.

Personal experience: I met a girl on OkCupid a year ago and we had really long conversations. We would message each other two to three letter-sized mails almost every day. I asked her whether she would like to meet up after the 37th mail of such kind. She wasn't against it, but I stopped messaging her for a number of reasons. So, don't do that mistake. (Though, in retrospect, it was the right decision, because I moved across half the nation a couple of months later.)

One more thing: Never self-loathe in messages. Don't tell them about the countless ways in which you think you are incompetent socially.

 

[aj]

Interesting

It all seems to be going okay at the moment. There seem to be a hell of a lot of people on there.

I know it's still quite rubbish, but what to you think of this - is it terrible? And do I look like I'm 10?

 

[klytus]

Ah, that one is much better. It's outdoors, which conveys a sense of freedom. You aren't within the boundaries of your room. The sun appears to be shining. So, I'd definitely upload it to OkCupid. It's a good picture.

 

[aj]

Really? Oh ok. Added that and made it my primary one then. I didn't think I was smiling enough. Thank you