Child with OCD

[rje1109]

First post. I signed up because my son is tortured by a condition I believe is OCD, and I'm seeking advice how to help him.

He's 9 years old. He's been exhibiting OCDish traits for many years, and it seems to get progressively worse. A few years ago it got bad with him worrying he'd done something bad at school. Each day he'd come home and confess what he'd done wrong, even extremely innocuous behavior. He sometimes will obsess about religious code of behavior, like he'll breathe in second hand smoke and obsess for days about whether or not he smoked a cigarette. It might seem funny to an outsider, but it's not.

He obsesses about whether or not he's getting enough calories and eating healthy food. He obsesses about his weight. For a while he weighed himself every day to see if he was gaining weight.

There's been other related issues over the years. The obsessive thoughts always seem to be related to if he feels he's good enough or doing enough.

The latest is basketball. His favorite sport is basketball, and he's very good at it. He has an older brother that's very good, and I coach it. He saw a piece on TV on his favorite basketball player and how he worked so hard from a young age to become a star. He decided he would do that. For the last four months he has practiced basketball literally every day, for hours and hours. His hands are chapped and calloused and sometimes bleeding.

Everyday he'll ask us if he practiced enough. If it's a rainy day or the family does something and he can't get his basketball in he'll be upset and ask if he's going to lose all his skill. He says when he goes to bed voices in his head tell him he sucks at basketball and he's not working hard enough and he'll never make the NBA. We've spent hours and hours and hours comforting him, building him up, telling him how good he is.

He went to a basketball camp sponsored by the high school coaches. He won the MVP award for his age group and came home beaming. Then he came to us at bedtime sobbing. He knew he didn't deserve the MVP and they gave it to him as a pity award and everyone knows he sucks. It broke my heart and we had an hour conversation, finally turning him around.

He started on a competitive team a month ago. He's absolutely tortured by it. He comes home bawling from almost every practice and game. He says he sucks. He says he'll never make his dream of the NBA. He hates basketball. He wants to quit. We tell him if he wants to quit, he can. But it's a love hate thing. If we act like we're serious that he should quit, he begs and begs to stay on the team. He's the best on his team, but he doesn't see it and goes on and on about how each player is better. For a long time I tried to comfort him by telling him he is good, he is the best player. Now I think I'm doing it wrong and I stopped telling him that. I just tell him he's a good boy and I love him, and basketball should be something we do for fun. But I don't know what to do.

His team just finished a tournament and it was absolutely horrible. He did temper tantrums during the game when things didn't go perfectly for him, pouted on the bench when his coach took him out, and bawled and bawled at home after the games, saying he'll never be good at basketball. I lost it with him and yelled at him and told him he was grounded from basketball. This is the second day of his grounding. He begs and begs for me to let him go out and shoot hoops in the driveway and cries all day at the thought of having to quit his team.

I don't really think quitting basketball is the answer for him. It seems like I'm punishing him for something that's not his fault. And I love to watch him play basketball and it's something we share together, but if it's in his best interests, I'll keep this up and not allow him to play.

I think we're going to get him into a counselor, but my experience with counselors is that they're very inconsistent and I'm not sure what to expect or whether any value will come from it. What should I do?

 

[Feathers]

Hi & Welcome!

aww, he sounds like a sweet boy, and he's very lucky to have loving parents like you!!

It's also great you can coach him and that he's willing to work hard...

Yeah, I understand your concerns and can relate to a lot of what you were writing about...

Don't know if you ever came across research about 'talented' kids? Basically, kids that were labelled 'gifted/talented' became perfectionistic and worried about making mistakes, so they did worse with difficult problems and didn't even take them on, just did 'easier' problems (like easier math exercises), cause they didn't want to 'fail' and thus spoil expectations of others and themselves.

Also read about 'descriptive praise' - it's MUCH better if you say, 'This and this was done well' than 'You're a good/great/the best player'... For example, 'WOW, you threw 10 hoops' or 'You threw a hoop from this far' is better than 'You're good/the best'... Describe behavior/what he DID as much as you can (in detail) so it's realistic and what he really did!!

Do you also discuss other things in life? Or does everything in the family mostly revolve about basketball?
It would be really good if you could start talking about other things too, and give him a chance for accomplishment at and bonding over other things too... eg cook or bake etc. (and don't say 'You're the best chef ever/good cook' etc, say, 'This fish was really yummy!' or 'smells nice!' etc) or maybe he could have responsibility for home maintenance or something else that is really appreciated and necessary... so he feels 'part of the team' and meaningful and important in other ways too... (but don't make it too obvious or use those exact words with him! just maybe say this needs to be done and I need your help - or such.. and make sure to thank him and use descriptive praise of outcome and/or problem-solution description afterwards: 'The yard was a mess and now the grass is trimmed and the plants are watered' or whatever he did!) and maybe you could go fishing together or whatever else you like to do and he might like too...
Also maybe distract him with other interesting and FUN activities around the house or outside home - maybe any creative or 'discovery/nature' workshops (maybe boyscouts? or such), or other sports workshops/events or maybe camps of a more general nature... or volunteering etc? (non related to 'just basketball') Not sure what is available locally?

Maybe it would be also good to read bios of NBA players or other important people together, books or articles... and/or talk about them... Some people did poorly in baskeball, but accomplished other great things... Do you admire any other people? Like eg Martin Luther King etc? (Ideally present also someone your race/ethnic origin or similar beliefs etc) Or there were basketball players who also did other meaningful work... like helped with charities/meaningful organisations or projects... or established successful businesses etc.

Counselling would probably be good too, especially if you can find someone who knows about OCD and/or gifted/talented kids (there are some specialized counsellors, some online too) Nutrition could be a factor too.. Or any other stresses in his or your life... so maybe you could work on RELAXATION and 'mental attitude' with him too? All the best sports players also needed good 'mental preparation'... And 'being cool' or 'playing it cool' is important for team spirit, so maybe you could explain it to him like that? Like, he needs to be an 'example' for other boys, or 'keep it cool on the bench' so that other team players keep spirit?

It's important that each team has good 'team spirit' - this means it's not so important that one individual is a great player, but that as a team they can function well! (I saw this in a sports movie or a few, maybe watch something like that together?) Would his teammates respect Magic Johnson (or whoever) if he would be throwing himself on the floor and being overly miserable about it? Or would it be better that he keep his calm (even if it's difficult!) and they develop a good strategy together? And try to do better in advance?!
(Some sportsmen do throw tantrums even on tennis court etc, and maybe some sports are more known for this - maybe he saw it in a baseball court or something? You could maybe talk about this, if he saw it anywhere and where? In a calm manner, ideally.. I don't know if it is or isn't appropriate in basketball... you might discuss it.. That maybe the judges could be biased if he would behave out of line etc? If that might be a case?)

Children can experience and express strong emotions, and it's important to not be scared of them. They are just emotions. They are just kids. Many people don't know what to do with other people's strong emotions though.

How do you react to his feelings of disappointment and sadness? It's good to acknowledge whatever he's feeling and not just 'gloss over'... I recommend the book by Faber & Mazlish: How to talk so kids listen. Or Nanny 911 or Supernanny videos. eg maybe say 'Aww, shucks, that was a dissapointment' or 'Yeah, I bet you wish you did better' or something that makes him see that you understand and accept his sad feelings... You don't need a kid that's 'happy all the time', his disappointment shows he's a caring boy... Sometimes when you acknowledge someone's feelings those feelings disappear or 'improve' just by acceptance...

It's good to teach him resilience and the importance of 'standing up after falling down'. (In martial arts, one of the first things they teach you is how to fall down and pick yourself up again.)
Maybe use examples from sports - 'What do you think people would think if _famous basketball player_ would (behave like this) when they were playing against XY team?' also show him examples of 'failures' and how people 'got back on track' after failing or having a bad season... or just a bad game... 'Failure' is an important part of sports, and all biggest sports players had to deal with it one point or another... It's REALLY important to learn to accept it and deal with it in a constructive way... Especially useful if you can present examples from sportsmen he admires...

About cigarettes.. It's really great he doesn't want to smoke. Second-hand smoke can be problematic, maybe you can both work on establishing situations without it?
Not sure why he'd connect it with religious stuff? Did he think he was 'bad' for inhaling it?
In that case explain it was the other person's fault.. and it's better to avoid it.. (can you both brainstorm together on ways to avoid it/minimize it?) maybe explain that human bodies have good immune systems and can deal with some small amount of iffy chemicals, though it's better to minimize that... and eat healthy vitamins/minerals to combat that...

I don't know if there are any support groups for parents with gifted/talented kids or kids with OCD in your area, you could maybe find some? Teachers/educators/psychologists for gifted/talented kids could maybe be of help too... Or workshops and books/articles on communication with kids or communication in general too etc.

Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[Bittersweet]

Hi and welcome to the forums

I applaud you for observing your son's behavior so early and doing everything you can to help him.

Do any foods seem to increase the severity of his symptoms?

I don't have any advice, but if you want to talk with someone older with OCD, I'd be happy to try and pass along as much info as I can.

 

[rje1109]

Hi & Welcome!

aww, he sounds like a sweet boy, and he's very lucky to have loving parents like you!!

It's also great you can coach him and that he's willing to work hard...

Yeah, I understand your concerns and can relate to a lot of what you were writing about...

Don't know if you ever came across research about 'talented' kids? Basically, kids that were labelled 'gifted/talented' became perfectionistic and worried about making mistakes, so they did worse with difficult problems and didn't even take them on, just did 'easier' problems (like easier math exercises), cause they didn't want to 'fail' and thus spoil expectations of others and themselves.

Also read about 'descriptive praise' - it's MUCH better if you say, 'This and this was done well' than 'You're a good/great/the best player'... For example, 'WOW, you threw 10 hoops' or 'You threw a hoop from this far' is better than 'You're good/the best'... Describe behavior/what he DID as much as you can (in detail) so it's realistic and what he really did!!

Do you also discuss other things in life? Or does everything in the family mostly revolve about basketball?
It would be really good if you could start talking about other things too, and give him a chance for accomplishment at and bonding over other things too... eg cook or bake etc. (and don't say 'You're the best chef ever/good cook' etc, say, 'This fish was really yummy!' or 'smells nice!' etc) or maybe he could have responsibility for home maintenance or something else that is really appreciated and necessary... so he feels 'part of the team' and meaningful and important in other ways too... (but don't make it too obvious or use those exact words with him! just maybe say this needs to be done and I need your help - or such.. and make sure to thank him and use descriptive praise of outcome and/or problem-solution description afterwards: 'The yard was a mess and now the grass is trimmed and the plants are watered' or whatever he did!) and maybe you could go fishing together or whatever else you like to do and he might like too...
Also maybe distract him with other interesting and FUN activities around the house or outside home - maybe any creative or 'discovery/nature' workshops (maybe boyscouts? or such), or other sports workshops/events or maybe camps of a more general nature... or volunteering etc? (non related to 'just basketball') Not sure what is available locally?

Maybe it would be also good to read bios of NBA players or other important people together, books or articles... and/or talk about them... Some people did poorly in baskeball, but accomplished other great things... Do you admire any other people? Like eg Martin Luther King etc? (Ideally present also someone your race/ethnic origin or similar beliefs etc) Or there were basketball players who also did other meaningful work... like helped with charities/meaningful organisations or projects... or established successful businesses etc.

Counselling would probably be good too, especially if you can find someone who knows about OCD and/or gifted/talented kids (there are some specialized counsellors, some online too) Nutrition could be a factor too.. Or any other stresses in his or your life... so maybe you could work on RELAXATION and 'mental attitude' with him too? All the best sports players also needed good 'mental preparation'... And 'being cool' or 'playing it cool' is important for team spirit, so maybe you could explain it to him like that? Like, he needs to be an 'example' for other boys, or 'keep it cool on the bench' so that other team players keep spirit?

It's important that each team has good 'team spirit' - this means it's not so important that one individual is a great player, but that as a team they can function well! (I saw this in a sports movie or a few, maybe watch something like that together?) Would his teammates respect Magic Johnson (or whoever) if he would be throwing himself on the floor and being overly miserable about it? Or would it be better that he keep his calm (even if it's difficult!) and they develop a good strategy together? And try to do better in advance?!
(Some sportsmen do throw tantrums even on tennis court etc, and maybe some sports are more known for this - maybe he saw it in a baseball court or something? You could maybe talk about this, if he saw it anywhere and where? In a calm manner, ideally.. I don't know if it is or isn't appropriate in basketball... you might discuss it.. That maybe the judges could be biased if he would behave out of line etc? If that might be a case?)

Children can experience and express strong emotions, and it's important to not be scared of them. They are just emotions. They are just kids. Many people don't know what to do with other people's strong emotions though.

How do you react to his feelings of disappointment and sadness? It's good to acknowledge whatever he's feeling and not just 'gloss over'... I recommend the book by Faber & Mazlish: How to talk so kids listen. Or Nanny 911 or Supernanny videos. eg maybe say 'Aww, shucks, that was a dissapointment' or 'Yeah, I bet you wish you did better' or something that makes him see that you understand and accept his sad feelings... You don't need a kid that's 'happy all the time', his disappointment shows he's a caring boy... Sometimes when you acknowledge someone's feelings those feelings disappear or 'improve' just by acceptance...

It's good to teach him resilience and the importance of 'standing up after falling down'. (In martial arts, one of the first things they teach you is how to fall down and pick yourself up again.)
Maybe use examples from sports - 'What do you think people would think if _famous basketball player_ would (behave like this) when they were playing against XY team?' also show him examples of 'failures' and how people 'got back on track' after failing or having a bad season... or just a bad game... 'Failure' is an important part of sports, and all biggest sports players had to deal with it one point or another... It's REALLY important to learn to accept it and deal with it in a constructive way... Especially useful if you can present examples from sportsmen he admires...

About cigarettes.. It's really great he doesn't want to smoke. Second-hand smoke can be problematic, maybe you can both work on establishing situations without it?
Not sure why he'd connect it with religious stuff? Did he think he was 'bad' for inhaling it?
In that case explain it was the other person's fault.. and it's better to avoid it.. (can you both brainstorm together on ways to avoid it/minimize it?) maybe explain that human bodies have good immune systems and can deal with some small amount of iffy chemicals, though it's better to minimize that... and eat healthy vitamins/minerals to combat that...

I don't know if there are any support groups for parents with gifted/talented kids or kids with OCD in your area, you could maybe find some? Teachers/educators/psychologists for gifted/talented kids could maybe be of help too... Or workshops and books/articles on communication with kids or communication in general too etc.

Good luck and keep us posted!!

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and good advice. I'm trying to do a lot of these things but can always do better.

As for the cigarette smoke, I say that simply to illustrate part of his behavior. In our religion, which is very important to us, there are rules against smoking. So he was worried he broke one of God's commandments because he breathed in second hand smoke. He's not in an environment where this happens very often, in fact it would be extremely rare. And it would be normal for a kid to question this, but he would ask again and again, up to 6-8 times over the space of a couple days "are you sure I didn't smoke cigarettes?" This illustrates a common type of behavior in him.

I like the suggestions about emphasizing non-basketball stuff to share together and to encourage and compliment him. We do that. But like I said, we can do it better.

 

[springk]

hi rje

it is so nice that you are aware of what is going on with your son. he is quite young and he may not know what is going on with him.
i guess he is worrying too much and this happens in OCD. he is afraid and he wants to do everything perfect. here's the problem, everything can't be perfect.
i think you should encourage him for basketball. if he quits,he will do so for wrong reason,i mean he doesnt need to.

this will also mean that his fears,that are not real will appear real.
he has to face those fears.
and of course you should seek a counselor who understands your problem.
he has any other symptoms of OCD?

 

[Bittersweet]

One point I forgot to make about OCD, the problem is not the topic that the sufferer is obsessing about.

The problem is obsessing itself. Until the obsessing is brought under control, it doesn't matter if the topic is food, smoke, basketball, baseball or anything else.

Trying to reason with a child with OCD usually doesn't help. The OCD is not an illness of reason. Instead of trying to reason with the child about what the child is obsessing about, return to your original way of comforting your child.

Trust me, as a sufferer myself, a parent's attempt to reason with, or withdraw privileges usually doesn't help. It increases the child's feelings of isolation, being misunderstood and punished.

 

[Feathers]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and good advice. I'm trying to do a lot of these things but can always do better.

As for the cigarette smoke, I say that simply to illustrate part of his behavior. In our religion, which is very important to us, there are rules against smoking. So he was worried he broke one of God's commandments because he breathed in second hand smoke. He's not in an environment where this happens very often, in fact it would be extremely rare. And it would be normal for a kid to question this, but he would ask again and again, up to 6-8 times over the space of a couple days "are you sure I didn't smoke cigarettes?" This illustrates a common type of behavior in him.

I like the suggestions about emphasizing non-basketball stuff to share together and to encourage and compliment him. We do that. But like I said, we can do it better.

It's good you're already trying and doing these things!

Interesting, never heard of a religion that is against smoking... which religion is that? (just curious)
I don't know if a very strict religion with very many strict 'rules' and commandments is very good for someone with OCD... Maybe it's something to try to talk about with a professional too?
I understand it's important to you, maybe there are ways to talk about it in a less 'strict' way... As a child, religion was pretty important to me too... (And I still worry if I think I may have done/do anything 'wrong'...)

In many cases, rules are made with the thought that some people would not abide by them and would try to 'go around' them or break them a little.. So sometimes the rules are 'stricter' for that reason... Also, some people do need to be 'scared' into doing healthy things or to live in a more people-friendly manner...
For someone who may 'obsess' easily, it is better to try to 'inspire' them by saying why it's important and encourage them...
For example, smoking is not healthy, so that is why it's better to not smoke...

I think just saying something is 'God's will' can be put under question when kids/people grow up and may start thinking and questioning what they were taught...

Bittersweet, I think that both the topic and the obsessing can be a problem sometimes... For me, it was sometimes helpful if someone eg a doctor addressed the topic of my concerns in a rational and expert manner. (So that it changed my beliefs/worries about it.) I agree that parents may sometimes not be seen as 'expert enough', and that just withdrawing privileges or being scolded/'reasoned with' in an impatient manner without feeling 'understood' may not work either.

There are quite some books and articles on OCD, maybe it's good to get informed about it a bit...

 

[rje1109]

It's good you're already trying and doing these things!

Interesting, never heard of a religion that is against smoking... which religion is that? (just curious)
I don't know if a very strict religion with very many strict 'rules' and commandments is very good for someone with OCD... Maybe it's something to try to talk about with a professional too?
I understand it's important to you, maybe there are ways to talk about it in a less 'strict' way... As a child, religion was pretty important to me too... (And I still worry if I think I may have done/do anything 'wrong'...)

In many cases, rules are made with the thought that some people would not abide by them and would try to 'go around' them or break them a little.. So sometimes the rules are 'stricter' for that reason... Also, some people do need to be 'scared' into doing healthy things or to live in a more people-friendly manner...
For someone who may 'obsess' easily, it is better to try to 'inspire' them by saying why it's important and encourage them...
For example, smoking is not healthy, so that is why it's better to not smoke...

I think just saying something is 'God's will' can be put under question when kids/people grow up and may start thinking and questioning what they were taught...

Bittersweet, I think that both the topic and the obsessing can be a problem sometimes... For me, it was sometimes helpful if someone eg a doctor addressed the topic of my concerns in a rational and expert manner. (So that it changed my beliefs/worries about it.) I agree that parents may sometimes not be seen as 'expert enough', and that just withdrawing privileges or being scolded/'reasoned with' in an impatient manner without feeling 'understood' may not work either.

There are quite some books and articles on OCD, maybe it's good to get informed about it a bit...

We're of the Mormon faith. Smoking is not something like constantly talked about, but there is a belief in Mormonism that things like smoking, alcohol, and even coffee and tea are against God's commandments. I agree a strict religion could make OCD worse for a kid. But it's also hard to change your religion when it's already built in the context of the family and even community (everyone's Mormon in the community where we live).

 

[rje1109]

One point I forgot to make about OCD, the problem is not the topic that the sufferer is obsessing about.

The problem is obsessing itself. Until the obsessing is brought under control, it doesn't matter if the topic is food, smoke, basketball, baseball or anything else.

Trying to reason with a child with OCD usually doesn't help. The OCD is not an illness of reason. Instead of trying to reason with the child about what the child is obsessing about, return to your original way of comforting your child.

Trust me, as a sufferer myself, a parent's attempt to reason with, or withdraw privileges usually doesn't help. It increases the child's feelings of isolation, being misunderstood and punished.

I think I made the wrong choice by grounding him from basketball. I'll straighten that out. But I don't know what to do. I'm grasping at anything.

 

[Feathers]

We're of the Mormon faith. Smoking is not something like constantly talked about, but there is a belief in Mormonism that things like smoking, alcohol, and even coffee and tea are against God's commandments. I agree a strict religion could make OCD worse for a kid. But it's also hard to change your religion when it's already built in the context of the family and even community (everyone's Mormon in the community where we live).

Yeah, I understand... I don't think Mormon is such a strict religion, I was raised Catholic and think it's stricter kinda, though it's not completely against alcohol etc. It probably also depends on how it's all presented to a kid...

I think I made the wrong choice by grounding him from basketball. I'll straighten that out. But I don't know what to do. I'm grasping at anything.

Well, for how long has he been grounded? Did you mention it to him? I think it's good to be consistent and stick to what you said. Maybe you can help make his days more interesting by offering other activities meanwhile.. take him out on a trip, waking/hiking or such?

If you didn't specify time, maybe you could talk to your wife/family or any other experts or a psychologist first?
Or maybe you could 'lift' the ban, only if not contradicting what you said to him earlier... Basketball time could also be a 'reward' for helping out at home or homework or such (though I know it's holidays now..) or a 'natural consequence' after doing something to help at home etc.