Be patient? (Fairly long and disjointed, you have been warned)

[schist]

So there's a girl I work with, that I'd like to pursue something greater than friendship with. We get along really well and there's always a fun, playful atmosphere between us.

Unfortunately, she was asked out on a date by another co-worker the other week, and I'm not sure whether that's gonna progress anywhere. A few of us went out for drinks after work last night, and they talked about her "date" (I didn't say anything, nor get involved in the conversation about her date). We got onto the topic of past relationships, and I pretty much hinted at the fact that I don't do "just friends" with girls, and that most friendships I make with girls have the intention of going somewhere.

Later on after work me and her were waiting at the taxi rank, just the two of us. We got to talk and know each other a little better, and found that we have a lot of common interests. She also mentioned that silences in conversations between us were never awkward, so I guess that's good.

Now my question is this - Should I be patient and gradually try to escalate things over time? Or do you think I've already been counted out of the race, so to speak?

 

[N0D]

from what you said it doesn't sound like you've been counted out as you say.

 

[schist]

I dunno, the fact that I was there when they were talking about relationships and dates kinda tells me that there's absolutely no chance now of anything beyond friendship. ::

 

[schist]

Righto, now for an update:

Her and this other guy are now an item. Now here's the tricky part:

Experience tells me to continue being her friend and continue as I am so that when they break up, I'll have a proper opportunity to date her. I am 85% certain that I have not been "friend-zoned" - as I said, there's a flirty atmosphere between us, and I did ask her out to be my date for an upcoming social event, and she said "yes" (though I've since rescinded the offer).

Instinct tells me to shut her out of my life for the time being and keep our interactions civil and nothing more. She'll wonder why, but this is what I need to do to protect myself.

Thoughts?

 

[Lanciao37]

Dont give it time. Just make the move Now, before the other guy takes it further! Maybe they are an item, but its not like there married allready.
Just think that other guy will treat her bad and you must save her from his evil clutches! Seriously it helps. Just keep giving 110% and she will go for the best guy in the end.
Ask her if she wants to see a movie,Just the both of you (Get her to pick the movie) and keep on the charm, She needs to pick between you and the other guy, But theres nothing wrong with helping her with the decision.

I was there once and I never made the move,that girl was amazing, I loved her so much!! I only realise now some years later that she was trying to get me to ask her out in a subtle way, but I didnt understand at the time.. Now she's gone!

 

[mmmm]

Out of curiosity, why don't you do "just friends" with girls? (I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it came across).

 

[schist]

Out of curiosity, why don't you do "just friends" with girls? (I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it came across).

No, I pretty much do mean it the way it came across.

If I'm romantically interested in a girl, I'm not gonna stay around and be a "good friend" while she runs around dating/screwing guys far less qualified than I. I have more respect for myself than that, and I have more pride in myself than that.

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

Righto, now for an update:

Her and this other guy are now an item. Now here's the tricky part:

Experience tells me to continue being her friend and continue as I am so that when they break up, I'll have a proper opportunity to date her. I am 85% certain that I have not been "friend-zoned" - as I said, there's a flirty atmosphere between us, and I did ask her out to be my date for an upcoming social event, and she said "yes" (though I've since rescinded the offer).

Instinct tells me to shut her out of my life for the time being and keep our interactions civil and nothing more. She'll wonder why, but this is what I need to do to protect myself.

Thoughts?

It doesn't sound like you want to be her friend. It sounds like you want to hang around pretending to be her friend so you can jump in there as a ready made boyfriend should things go bad with her current boyfriend. Not a good idea IMHO. Maybe I've misinterpreted what you are saying, but since you said that you don't do "just friends" with someone you have a romantic interest in, and since you clearly do have a romantic interest in this girl, it's difficult to draw any other conclusion.

If you feel you can genuinely be her friend, then fine. Otherwise it would probably be best for both of you if you just keep things on a professional basis.

 

[schist]

It doesn't sound like you want to be her friend. It sounds like you want to hang around pretending to be her friend so you can jump in there as a ready made boyfriend should things go bad with her current boyfriend. Not a good idea IMHO. Maybe I've misinterpreted what you are saying, but since you said that you don't do "just friends" with someone you have a romantic interest in, and since you clearly do have a romantic interest in this girl, it's difficult to draw any other conclusion.

If you feel you can genuinely be her friend, then fine. Otherwise it would probably be best for both of you if you just keep things on a professional basis.

Well, no - I mean, just because it seems she has a boyfriend doesn't mean I'm gonna rule out the possibility of us being an item later on down the track and not put in any effort towards that outcome, to do so just seems defeatist to me.

Not sure if you know this - but this happens A LOT with people. It's rare that you find guys who are willingly "just friends" with girls they are attracted to.

 

[coyote]

No, I pretty much do mean it the way it came across.

If I'm romantically interested in a girl, I'm not gonna stay around and be a "good friend" while she runs around dating/screwing guys far less qualified than I. I have more respect for myself than that, and I have more pride in myself than that.

Well, no - I mean, just because it seems she has a boyfriend doesn't mean I'm gonna rule out the possibility of us being an item later on down the track and not put in any effort towards that outcome, to do so just seems defeatist to me.

Not sure if you know this - but this happens A LOT with people. It's rare that you find guys who are willingly "just friends" with girls they are attracted to.

while you may have respect for yourself - it doesn't sound like you have much respect for the woman

interpersonal relationships don't have to be an "either/or" proposition

if you like her as a person and enjoy her company, you don't have to quit associating with her altogether just because she's seeing someone else

do you treat other men in the same fashion? what about women that you don't want a romantic relationship with?

women are people first - try treating her as a person, not an object of desire

 

[cosmosis]

Not sure if you know this - but this happens A LOT with people. It's rare that you find guys who are willingly "just friends" with girls they are attracted to.

It's probably the truth, but I personally don't like that mindset. Good long-term relationships are always based off selflessness. Caring about the person, beyond your own needs or desires. Being a friend just because you like being around her, is not a degrading thing. It's not about pride. It shows you care just about her wellbeing and a romantic relationship should almost feel secondary to that. Arn't the best relationships built out of friendship anyway?

 

[schist]

It's not about quitting associating with her altogether - it's about toning that level of association down, so I don't fall into the dreaded "friend zone".

No, I do not treat other men in the same fashion, as I am not gay. Nor do I women I'm not romantically attracted to, seeing as I desire nothing more than friendship in that instance.

@Cosmosis: Ideally, good long-term relationships are born out of selflessness and caring for the person in question. But look at the cold hard reality - how often do you hear about guys that give everything for the object of their desire, including acting out of selflessness and genuine unadulterated kindness - only to wind up always and forever being "just friends" in the eyes of their intended? That's not what I aim for.

Call me cynical and jaded, but I've learnt the hard way over the years that things are seldom reasonable or logical, and I have to act accordingly, if I want to take what I desire.

 

[coyote]

No, I do not treat other men in the same fashion, as I am not gay. Nor do I women I'm not romantically attracted to, seeing as I desire nothing more than friendship in that instance.

so you can be friends with people, including women?

just not anyone you want to have sex with?

Call me cynical and jaded, but I've learnt the hard way over the years that things are seldom reasonable or logical, and I have to act accordingly, if I want to take what I desire.

i guess i see it not so much as something for you to take

as it is something for her to give

 

[schist]

so you can be friends with people, including women?

just not anyone you want to have sex with?

Put it this way - If you're really into this chick, and you finally muster up the courage to ask her out on a date, and she hits you with the classic "I value our friendship too much"/"let's just be friends" line, are you REALLY going to stay friends with her? Are you really going to allow your heart to sink every time you look at her, and constantly be reminded of how you failed as a man in her eyes? Will you allow yourself to be emasculated by being constantly reminded of how you aren't good enough to be boyfriend material in her eyes every time you speak to her?

I don't think so, buddy.

 

[coyote]

..Are you really going to allow your heart to sink every time you look at her, and constantly be reminded of how you failed as a man in her eyes? Will you allow yourself to be emasculated by being constantly reminded of how you aren't good enough to be boyfriend material in her eyes every time you speak to her?

I don't think so, buddy.

i would not think that i failed as a man

nor would i feel emasculated

if i liked her enough and cared enough about her as a person to want to be in a relationship with her, then i would understand and respect her position

sure, i would be disappointed, but i wouldn't take it as a judgement about my own worth

 

[schist]

girl's honest opinion (mine at least), a girl also won't feel comfortable being just friends after this kind of situation. unless u get a gf or some other way she knows you feelings are gone.

How do you mean?

 

[mmmm]

Schist, what I'm about to say is not to put you down in any way, shape or form. I really appreciated your honesty in answering my earlier question. I believe certain situations in my life would have been much better for me if men whose friendship I truly treasured had been as honest with me instead of treating me like a leper for (in my mind) no apparent reason.

I have been reading your friendly debate with Coyote ( I don't think there is any animosity on either side). The two of you seem to have opposite opinions on the matter. Ask yourself this: if this girl of yours was a part of this debate, whose team do you think she would prefer to be on?

 

[schist]

I have been reading your friendly debate with Coyote ( I don't think there is any animosity on either side). The two of you seem to have opposite opinions on the matter. Ask yourself this: if this girl of yours was a part of this debate, whose team do you think she would prefer to be on?

There isn't any animosity on either side.

All I'm saying is, I can't stay "just friends" with girls I'm attracted to, it'd just be too painful and awkward, and whatever bond was left between us would never be able to blossom due to the uneasiness of the whole situation.

I do this to protect myself, and protect my own well-being.

 

[schist]

i mean that the girl would understand why you don't want to be friends with her anymore.

Exactly.

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't"

 

[mmmm]

There isn't any animosity on either side.

All I'm saying is, I can't stay "just friends" with girls I'm attracted to, it'd just be too painful and awkward, and whatever bond was left between us would never be able to blossom due to the uneasiness of the whole situation.

I do this to protect myself, and protect my own well-being.

That wasn't the question.