Another potential friend gone

[Scrabbl]

Re: Late developer?

It's extra hard to try to get to know people because as well as other things, I have no idea where the 'lines' are, while knowing that I could mess everything up so easily. I know things aren't black and white but they are still there.

Same with me. but the more we care about where the lines are, the more afraid we are of messing things up, and that makes us less inclined to try new things. I believe that the solution is to just forget about the lines; make up your own rules; do what you believe is right. People who do that may not please everyone around him/her but generally have more friends than us. So if you want to say something to someone but SP tells you there's a chance that you may end up annoying that person.. say it anyway. I think that's what normal people do.

The problem is: the natural tendency for people with SP is to do everything you mentioned.. For us, it's actually easier for us to try to please everyone; it's easier to blame ourselves and regret everything we've done; it's easier to not ask your manager "how are you feeling" although you feel you should, etc. You have to talk yourself into doing anything against SP. That's why every conversation is so exhausting... because to do things against SP takes a lot of effort.. So unless you're rly, rly motivated (I'm not ), what I wrote in the other paragraph won't work.

but she doesn't really talk to me at work other than about work itself. But then this is probably because I don't talk to her so I can understand that.

But what is it okay to talk about? And Facebook makes it twice as 'dangerous' as I have no problem saying anything on the internet, as you can see. She's my manager FFS, could it be any more confusing? :lol:

I'm really not qualified to give advice on that lol
But I don't understand why does her being the manager make it not ok to talk about what you normally do? If you think she might judge you.. then you shouldn't worry. For people with SP it's always better to open your mouth and be thought a fool than to remain silent. 'Cause at least you're showing that you care about her. But yeah i know it's hard.

Anyway good luck! hope your next conversation will be longer

 

[aj]

Yes, again! It is so easy not to do anything. The way that you've said that 'every conversation is so exhausting' is amazing because that's exactly how it is for me too.

And yes, you need to be motivated, unfortunately for me it's something that I can't control... I mean this afternoon I suddenly felt 'happy' and asked someone if I could help when they had a problem. Not that she heard me because I'm so quiet :lol:

With my manager... well, it just seems a little odd, like being back at college or something. You might have been friendly with your teachers but you didn't do anything with them outside of school did you? But then they would not have been just a couple of years older than you... arrgh, so it's not really the same is it...

I'll try and go for it tomorrow then. What you said makes a lot of sense and I'll see how it goes. Thanks again.

 

[aj]

Scrabbl, what you wrote helped me a lot today and I did actually start a short conversation. It was so uncomfortable, and the way I stood, looked and talked was ultra awkward, I know that, but meh, I did it I suppose.

Was thinking though. Not that there are many, but all of the times I've talk to someone like this, it's just a lot of unconnected incidents. Nothing to do with each other.

I have no idea how to be 'friends' with someone. I know that's waaaaaay over simplifying things. But how I'm ever going to get from short, isolated conversations to actually getting to know someone is beyond me. It's crushing when I hear other people talking about this or that because they, you know, have lives.

How can I even ask someone to do something at the weekend when I don't go out do anything? I hate to think what kind of reaction I'd get as I act, feel and am seen as a kid anyway. My social experience *is* stuck in ten years ago and I have no idea how to be a 20 year old. Because of this I'd be a drag if they did want to do something anyway.

I need an earpiece and someone watching on a monitor to give me instructions!

Crap. I think I'll curl up in a ball for a while. :roll:

 

[Scrabbl]

hehe I'm glad what I wrote helped. Considering I can barely help myself lol... Well except there's one trick I found that actually worked for me (in fact it's the same idea as my other post, just rephrased): Whenever I start thinking of something embarrassing.. Take your example, if I think to myself "the way I stood, looked and talked was ultra awkward!" I'll just say to myself: "..but that's who I am. I was just being myself. It's a good thing that I acted like that - at least I didn't pretend to be soemthing I'm not, because if I want people to like me they should like me for my real self." Basically, this trick helps me to accept things instead of criticising yourself. Hope it may help you too.

Was thinking though. Not that there are many, but all of the times I've talk to someone like this, it's just a lot of unconnected incidents. Nothing to do with each other.

You mean like the topic of the conversation is never personal? ..like it's always about work or some other boring subject?

I have no idea how to be 'friends' with someone.

Yes exactly: I have no idea either. Never had a real friend.
Sometimes I even wonder what it means to be friends. My definition so far 1. someone you can trust. 2. someone who you spend a lot of time with 3. and someone you really care about.
So I guess to become friends, you have to start by: 1. showing that you care about that person.. ask him/her questions and listen.. 2. tell each other everything: even things that you'd normally keep secret and 3. try to spend time together like invite him/her to lunch once in a while or if you both play/watch the same sports, then make it a weekly thing... That's my impression of what friends are and what they do. The only problem is SP people don't feel comfortable doing a lot of those things.. Like going out for lunch or going to the gym...

But then I sometimes doubt people like me can even form this kind of relationship at all, even if I get over the shyness aspect. I mean, I'm so different from other people on every level - I have, like you, spent my entire life in my own little world. is it even possible to connect with other people? Or is the difference so great it's like people from different cultures?

best wishes,

 

[aj]

Yes, the conversation never being personal is just it. I was going to ask how she had got on moving into her own place while she'd been off for a few days, but it just ended up being about work. And when the conversation dried up, I just went to sit back down rather than changing the subject because I was starting to get aware of what I looked like, standing so awkwardly.

Looking back on it I probably made myself seem even worse... I actually go over and talk to her for once, and it looks like all I want to talk about is work. That's my own fault though

I have told myself that tomorrow I *have* to ask how it's going or I'm just reinforcing that even more, and I think that's true. I hope that actually pushes me to do it...

Interesting way of looking at things that feel embarrassing though, I will keep that in mind. I suppose the best thing is just to reassure yourself that you don't look too stupid, and just block it out.

1. someone you can trust. 2. someone who you spend a lot of time with 3. and someone you really care about.

That would be so nice.

Will see what happens.

 

[aj]

Did that, so that's not so bad now. She said 'thanks for asking'. Heh, cringe. As I said at the start of the thread they seem to know how I am and that actually makes it harder. After months of being a certain way, changing anything is going to be so obvious.

Then again I'd have to do a lot to be more embarrassed than I was when what happened happened back then. Which is good.

This is such a queer thing though, isn't it? Just going up and talking to someone. How can it be such a problem? Yet it is.

So normal to most people but I could write a story about it. Walking over, standing there. Starting to speak as they look up, probably surprised that you're even talking to them, and you wonder how they're going to react. You feel every second of it. Well, I do, anyway.

Edit:

But then I sometimes doubt people like me can even form this kind of relationship at all, even if I get over the shyness aspect. I mean, I'm so different from other people on every level - I have, like you, spent my entire life in my own little world. is it even possible to connect with other people? Or is the difference so great it's like people from different cultures?

I agree, but I hope it is possible, obviously. I suppose you can only hope and try.

 

[Scrabbl]

Wow that's great you did it. It's nice to see your progress.

She said 'thanks for asking'. Heh, cringe. As I said at the start of the thread they seem to know how I am and that actually makes it harder. After months of being a certain way, changing anything is going to be so obvious.

That's all she said? but don't see that as a failure. It's not.
Your coworkers might notice that you suddenly started talking, but they really can't make further judgments than that because not talking is the only thing they know about you as a person so far. So I hope they won't find this too weird and make a big deal out of it. (and what could they possibly do about it anyway)

It's very rare to see people overcoming their SP. Most social phobics may have excuses or even believe it's impossible. But the true reason that so few people can do it is that they don't try hard enough, and trying requires lots of motivation. You seem like you're very motivated. So keep up with what you're doing. You'll get the life you deserve. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy actually recommend 2 or 3 exposures to your fears per day (you actually want to get embarrassed; not avoid it), just fyi.

Keep us posted.

 

[aj]

Wow that's great you did it. It's nice to see your progress.

That's all she said? but don't see that as a failure. It's not.
Your coworkers might notice that you suddenly started talking, but they really can't make further judgments than that because not talking is the only thing they know about you as a person so far. So I hope they won't find this too weird and make a big deal out of it. (and what could they possibly do about it anyway)

It's very rare to see people overcoming their SP. Most social phobics may have excuses or even believe it's impossible. But the true reason that so few people can do it is that they don't try hard enough, and trying requires lots of motivation. You seem like you're very motivated.

Oh no, no, sorry, she did say more, and then that at the end, haha :lol:

Having you backing me did help me do it though

You say about motivation but it can come and go so quickly for me... in a day (see the day I did the overtime) I can go from being on top of the world thinking it's all going to be okay, to feeling so deflated because it never will. Shame there's no way to change it either, it just has to be at the right time...

What I've done so far is relatively easy. The really hard part is something like 'what do you like to do at the weekend' and going from there, ie. 'do you want to insert some activity next weekend'. There's no going back after that. The reply could be anything - what if they don't take me seriously or something, and after that the atmosphere is always uneasy? I have to keep reminding myself that I'm roughly the same age and not about 10, which is what I feel like. One way I want to make friends, and I'll never know if I don't try... but then I don't want to ruin what I have (ie. the job) and just want to keep it as it is. Guess it's either do it or don't do it in the end... arrgh...

So keep up with what you're doing. You'll get the life you deserve. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy actually recommend 2 or 3 exposures to your fears per day (you actually want to get embarrassed; not avoid it), just fyi.

Keep us posted.

Advice taken!

I guess it's going okay but I still haven't really done much. I actually feel a bit bad posting here... I think the fear comes from never doing this in childhood, and still not having a clue what to do or how people will react. 'Y' posted a link to a video in the Youtube blogs thread. When the guy says something like 'how am I going to make any money', it hit me how much of a problem I don't have. At least I can actually go out and work. I can't even imagine how awful it must be to be like that. Compared to them I'm fine

 

[aj]

I realised something else this morning... I can't do small talk at all, my mind just can't think of anything to say.

Today someone said about what they had for dinner last night, and it turned into a whole conversation! If it was me talking to them it would have been: "Was it nice?" "Yes." "Good."

This is just great, as people tend to do it quite a lot :roll:

Edit: Depressing post removed, never mind... Scrabbl, I did not intend to make you look stupid after saying you think it'll work out for me. I hope I didn't.

The help and advice I have received in this thread has been great and will definitely help me. Some of it already has. Thank you.

 

[aj]

It's a vicious circle isn't it...

No friends because I don't do anything, can't do anything because I have no friends.

(I don't mean that I think you have to do everything with other people, I just mean, well, doing things with friends...)

Also, I'm realising that I'm just not as mature as I 'should' be. Some things seem to be okay, but the problem is life experience... I have none. Really, I've done so little. And that's what makes other people so intimidating; even just a year older than me, they've done so much in their lives.

Anyway I now have someone on MSN... somewhen I might ask them to do something, though I just hope and prey that they actually use it... otherwise it's the same thing as (I think) I said before - I never get a chance to get them on their own, there's always people right there... and there's no way I could ask them to do something in that situation.