AMAZING book i picked up

UnOccupied

Well-known member
Okay, so one of my biggest fears is getting made fun of. I cannot stand being called names, or put down by others, and it has been happening to me for a while. It's a combination of me not being able to handle it when i'm feeling anxious, and me getting the bigger end of the jokes handed to. My therapist recommended this book to me called, 'The Four Agreements,' by Jon Miguel Ruiz. It is AMAZING, and really is uplifting. Obviously it's not a cure all, but i constantly read uplifting stuff like this to keep me going. And plus, its barely over 100 pages, so its an easy read. Enjoy!:)
 

sullyS25

Well-known member
Ive never read that but I know the basic ideas of it. Another great book that really helps is "The Power of Now"
 

madmike

Well-known member
It sounds like a worthwhile read, I'll look out for it!

I also recommend the power of now or stillness speaks by Eckhart Tolle.

I really like 'The Prophet' by Khalil Gibran as well, although it's not specifically related to any of these problems.
 

JamesSmith

Well-known member
About the speaking bad about yourself. Speaking bad about yourself can be really good thing at times when you are making a humble joke about yourself. It makes you seem like a real person and shows that you are not full of yourself.

For instance, when I'm watching baseball and one of the commentators tells his partner that he was one of the best pitchers ever, and his partner responds with something like, "I got lit up my fair share of times." People will respect the guy that says that he wasn't that great because he's being humble. It's an example of putting yourself down but also having other people respect you at the same time.

You shouldn't always avoid speaking bad about yourself, there are times when humbleness will benefit you.
 

coyote

Well-known member
About the speaking bad about yourself. Speaking bad about yourself can be really good thing at times when you are making a humble joke about yourself. It makes you seem like a real person and shows that you are not full of yourself.

For instance, when I'm watching baseball and one of the commentators tells his partner that he was one of the best pitchers ever, and his partner responds with something like, "I got lit up my fair share of times." People will respect the guy that says that he wasn't that great because he's being humble. It's an example of putting yourself down but also having other people respect you at the same time.

You shouldn't always avoid speaking bad about yourself, there are times when humbleness will benefit you.

what you're saying is humility is a virtue

so, in that instance, you're not speaking badly about yourself - you're being humble

so you're actually putting yourself in a good light

far different than self loathing and criticism


it also helps to not take yourself too seriously all the time
 

sullyS25

Well-known member
what you're saying is humility is a virtue

so, in that instance, you're not speaking badly about yourself - you're being humble

so you're actually putting yourself in a good light

far different than self loathing and criticism


it also helps to not take yourself too seriously all the time

I agree with this completely, humility is much different than criticism and nothing close to self loathing and criticism.
 

Lea

Banned
Agreement 2 - sadly, it doesn't protect us from all the hurt peple afflict - if someone slaps your face you will feel pain regardless if you take it personally or not. Or if you manage otherwise, let me know :).
 

sullyS25

Well-known member
I am sure i wouldn't be happy if someone slapped me in the face, that rarely happens. I would personally see it as the person that did it having some sort of mental issues or life problems and not take it personally and go into the cycle of self criticism. After it says dont take anything personally it says nothing others do is because of you and it is them projecting their own reality onto you. I completely agree with that.
 
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sullyS25

Well-known member
My brother used to beat the piss out of me on a regular basis. Usually in front of my peers and I always took it personally until recently. I found out that my dad used to shove him around and get physical with him so he was projecting that reality onto me
 
Agreement 2 - sadly, it doesn't protect us from all the hurt peple afflict - if someone slaps your face you will feel pain regardless if you take it personally or not. Or if you manage otherwise, let me know :)
I agree with this (what Lea said). If sby says some "hurtful words", then by definition those words WILL HURT (at least a bit) - there's no getting around that. It's not WHETHER you will react badly to those words, but HOW MUCH you react to them. In fact i was attempting to analyse this very issue earlier today.


Here are some of the notes i made on it...
(is based on the ABC model - A/Event -> B/Thoughts -> C/Feelings)
(& is my usual level of reacting to those people around me, when at home (always), not when go abroad (~never))
(& is i think is a "reasonable" model/level to strive for & try to stay at)

Process following somebody's harsh/hurtful words/actions...
A ... Event (harsh/hurtful words/actions)
B ... Thoughts about it
C ... Minor-medium Feelings reaction + Zero physical reaction
. . . . (eg slight irritation) . . . . . . . (actions - eg verbal retaliation)
D ... Analyze/rationalize + Avoid significant Feelings reaction
E ... Still minor-medium (or less) Feelings reaction + Zero physical reaction
F ... Engage in a "postive" activity (to fill mind with positive, unrelated thoughts)
G ... Minor-->Zero-->Positve Feelings reaction

It's quite an "art" to follow this every time, takes years of practise. I follow it MOST times, but not all, so there's definately room for improvement for myself. And of course when i DON'T follow it, there tends to be a "major melt-down". So it's all-or-nothing it seems. And that is actually one of the "clues" about the whole root causes/effects. I believe that, and esp concerning SA'ers in general, while in the steps B-E.. after the initial event (A), it SEEMS that there's nothing more to it than you having an minor-medium feelings reaction. But today (had an event), while i was still "in the zone" & recording my ideas about it, i had a "feeling" that i was struggling to not overreact (or even "explode"). That is, i felt i was fighting a battle with deep/subconscious thoughts being "rapidly hurled" at my conscious mind, and that it took "much strength" (of character? habit?) to "blot them out". How i did/do this is usually to FILL my mind with OTHER, POSITIVE/AWESOME stuff/thoughts/feelings. This allows me to "disconnect" from those unwanted/irrational/dangerous thoughts (that is, to not "get drawn into" them, and possibly suffer a significant or major feelings reation - which i have learnt not to want).
Another words, i believe that the event (A) immediately triggers a "steady stream" (or "constant barrage" if you prefer) of negative/irrational thoughts from the subconcious (basically just memories/associations of past painful events). These thoughts are your "CONNECTION" to the pain of the past, they "connect" you to (the possibily of re-experiencing) significant/major feelings reactions. If you "allow" them to persist, which means by focussing or even being mindful/aware of them, then you are in serious danger of "triggering" a major feelings reaction (which is a reaction to the current event, but "uses" your past by re-triggering those feelings associated with your past).
Another way to put it, is that there are repressed/supressed feelings in your being, which have never been "addressed", which have built up over time, and some may have began in childhood. And there are things that TRIGGER these exact same feelings to be RE-EXPERIENCED again, and again, and again.
In general, just a single word or thought can trigger a --> feeling. So if an event causes your subconscious to send a barrage of thoughts associated to that event, then of course you are in major danger of having a feelings reaction. So you need to have a way of immeditaely "calming down" the your thoughts - both from subconscious & what you're consciously "choosing" to think about, at that time.
Of course other schools-of-thought believe that one should not avoid such thoughts, but be more mindful/aware of them. I sort of agree, but i think there's a time-and-place for being "mindful" of your thoughts - and that time-and-place i believe should not be "in the heat of battle". The same goes for being aware of the feelings (reaction). As there is the danger of triggering a nasty feelings reaction, so you want to avoid that, by not focussing on the automatic thoughts/feelings that are presently occurring (triggered by the event, which auto triggers them via subconscious - but can be added to by the focus of your own conscious thoughts).
I think the great Echarte Tolle wrote something along the lines of "you should experience the pain exactly as it is, only then will it dissipate". That maybe true, but maybe you need to have reached a certain level of "Echarte-Tolle-ness" to achieve that??. And if you aren't anywhere near that level, and esp if you're an SA'er (who apparently have a lot more anger/repression/etc issues than most), then maybe experiencing the feelings (reaction) as it is (& trying to focus on it) might instead lead to a chain-reaction of other unwanted thoughts/feelings - leading to you being/feeling overwhelmed (ie "at the mercy of") them, and thereby in serious danger of it turning into something MAJOR in the feelings sense (??)
 
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sullyS25

Well-known member
I agree with this (what Lea said). If sby says some "hurtful words", then by definition those words WILL HURT (at least a bit) - there's no getting around that. It's not WHETHER you will react badly to those words, but HOW MUCH you react to them. In fact i was attempting to analyse this very issue earlier today.

Well you guys must not understand what is being explained by the second agreement. That is a great that you have your own way of reacting to it and I am not saying it is wrong. When I dont take things personally and realize that someone said a hurtful thing to or about me because they have their own issues. It is not personal at all they are just struggling with there own issues in life and has nothing to do with me.

I dont have to go down a numbered list deciding how to react. I dont have any reaction or retaliation. If I do it is sympathy for the person that said F'd up things. The meaner they are the worse problems they are dealing with. I Have found great strength in this mentality and do not have "major meltdowns". That is just my way of dealing with people that mess with me though which happens less and less everyday because there is no reaction.

I think before you criticize the book and its content you should probably read it first. One sentence on that issue obviously led to misunderstanding about what is meant. If you have read it then I apologize
 
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