Alcohol doesn’t do anything for me!
- Thread starter phoenix1
- Start date
frizboy
Well-known member
Umm.... actually that website more or less supports everything I just said? So... wtf? And yes, ecstasy is not nearly as popular as some drugs, like weed for example (which is, by the way, a lot safer... probably safer than cigarettes or booze even). You are right about it being very popular in some parts of California... but does that speak for the rest of the US and Europe? Not at all. You're also right about it being a love drug, just only in the short-term. You're paying attention to what you want to...
Stop the misinformation. Not that anyone is honestly going to believe you in the first place. But there are some young, impressionable folks on here, so you never know.
Stop the misinformation. Not that anyone is honestly going to believe you in the first place. But there are some young, impressionable folks on here, so you never know.
vortexm1087
New member
Oh, so you're a man of science are you? You are basing these nuggets of wisdom of yours on indisputable scientific fact in the truckloads, huh? You must know so much about MDMA that some "random drug dude" can't possibly have anything significant to say, can he? You're arrogance and ignorance astounds me.
First of all, it is usually the drug users themselves who know way more about the substances they are injesting than those self-righteous drug warriors, like yourself, who pretend to be experts but really only spew out pre-processed crap they've heard a thousand times from the government, their families, and their ill-informed friends.
Did you know, for example, that the famous "holes in the brain" campaign against MDMA was based on a completely faulty study? This DEA-financed study, which has led to the unfortunately ubiquitous notion that MDMA causes actual "holes" in the brain, had numerous methodological flaws. Also, the drug that was injected into the rats whose brains are shown in the anti-MDMA ads was actually methamphetamine, a significantly more neurotoxic agent than MDMA. Did you also know that before the DEA hastily made MDMA a Schedule I drug that it was used by psychotherapists in marriage counseling, PTSD, etc.?
Psychiatry was astounded as to its ability to enable honest and thoughtful introspection, and, because of the state of complete self-acceptance it induces, to allow patients with fearful or troubling emotional histories to look at their trauma in a new light, without fear and with unconditional positive self regard.
If antioxidants and the appropriate vitamins are taken during the course of the MDMA experience, and 5-HTP, a vitamin supplement and precursor to serotonin, is taken as you start to come down, any free radical based neurotoxicity (the type of neurotoxicity I'm sure all of your so-called "evidence" on permanent brain damage is based) is made negligible. There are, however, a few precautions that any MDMA user should take.
First of all, pills should ALWAYS be tested (kits can be found online -- they are legal to possess so don't worry), there are many many adulterated pills out there and you want to make sure yours contains only MDMA. Second, you shouldn't injest MDMA more than once a month. This gives your brain time to re-reguate and prevents a build up of tolerance. Increasing your frequency of use any more than this is generally a bad idea, you will eventually not even be able to get high off the MDMA, and when you do the highs will be shorter and lack the empatheogenic qualities.
A final note on MDMA and its relation to social phobia: I've used MDMA 5 times in the past 6 months. The first time was a cathartic awakening for me. Its effect on my social anxiety, specifically my ability to converse casually with girls, was absolutely amazing. For the first time, I felt completely at ease in a large party-like atmosphere. And this was different from alcohol. Alcohol "cures" my social anxiety by simply making me think less, I'm in my own head less and am therefore able to socialize and remain attentive more easily. MDMA, however, made me feel whole, like all my mental faculties were serving me and filling me up with such a beautiful, fuzzy feeling of love, like an overwhelming feeling of "Everything is going to be all right, you never have to be afraid, never ever, there is nothing to fear." And with this complete feeling of security and self-love, empathy and personal warmth and sociability was able to ooze out of my being, and I had one of the best times I've ever had at that party. It was eye opening that I could feel like that and enjoy myself at an event I so typically associated with fear and extreme discomfort. It was life changing, so before you get all puritan drug warrior on me, you should either try the drug out yourself, or get more objective information on the chemical and its effects before you post acting like you know what you're talking about. Thanks.
BornAgain
Well-known member
frizboy said:
Ummm, no it does not support what you said at all! Of course weed is popular, everyone smokes weed! And of course its safer than probably any drug, its just weed! Plus its way cheape. E is one of the most popular psychoactive drugs, so youre again wrong on that one. There are raves across the US, and clubs predominantly made for ecstacy use across europe, most notably in Spain. Your paying attention to what you want to, you didnt answer to most of the shit i said! And i said OVER and OVER, the words "just for a little while", so stop reusing that point!
I am not here to present any misinformation, I am here to uncover common misconceptions about drug use and users. What are you saying about young people, and me for that matter? I think the people, old and young alike, would rather take the opinion of someone with experience over someone who just "reads the books".
I rest my case!
triceratops
Well-known member
frizboy said:
Although I dont support the use of drugs whats so ever I dont belive you can actually comment on the use of drugs unless u've actually used them. All your doing is going off what u have read or heard.
I've done drugs before it was just part of growing up. I dont use them anymore but I had some of the best nights of my life using E and I dont regret any of them. The next day seems to multply your anxiety by about 500% thou. You only have one life you cant expect to play by the rules all the time.
frizboy
Well-known member
Huh... well I appreciate vortex's post because it's actually surprisingly accurate. He's done his research too. Good job. It still doesn't change the fact that most studies do show pretty high levels of neuron deterioration and, more importantly, significant decreases in serotonin transmission, especially with long-term use of E. There's a reason why I'm skeptical about the idea that taking a supplement can deaden these effects, mainly because I haven't seen any research about it. The research I have seen presumably includes people who take supplements and also people who don't, and yet the results are pretty robust (in which case, if vortex is right, then either A.) the neuroprotective effects are very modest or B.) almost no one knows about these supplements). I'll have to look into it when I get the time... if I even care enough by then. If you could post some references, though, that would help. Sudden death and... I'm stretching here to remember what I learned in my psychopharm class... I believe liver failure have been reported in first time users.
I think the point, if there is one, to all this argument... and I think we all can agree here... is that there are safer options than E and they do pretty much the same thing. Benzos, alcohol, and weed. Not that I'm going to tell anyone to go out and get any of that and use it. But you can, without a doubt, feel a lot more comfortable about taking them.
And BornAgain... honestly, I don't know what to tell you. We obviously respect different sources of information... with you it's, I'm guessing, yourself and the people you know... and with me, it's science. Whatever.
I think the point, if there is one, to all this argument... and I think we all can agree here... is that there are safer options than E and they do pretty much the same thing. Benzos, alcohol, and weed. Not that I'm going to tell anyone to go out and get any of that and use it. But you can, without a doubt, feel a lot more comfortable about taking them.
And BornAgain... honestly, I don't know what to tell you. We obviously respect different sources of information... with you it's, I'm guessing, yourself and the people you know... and with me, it's science. Whatever.
frizboy
Well-known member
It's actually a logical fallacy to say that I can't argue here just because I've never used ex (I will have you know I am a drinker and have smoked weed a few times though). It's called "tu quoque". Look it up. It's just insulting your intelligence to come at me like that.scyth said:
vortexm1087
New member
frizboy said:
Here's a website for the information on blocking neurotoxicity. It goes over how they work, what kind of neuroprotective action to expect, which of course also depends on how high of a dose you take, etc.:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article3.shtml
When you mention the sudden death usually attributed to mdma, your psychopharm class was probably referring to the 2 in 50,000 chance that your body will have an allergic reaction to the MDMA due to your liver being unable to correctly metabolize the substance. Keep in mind this is a 0.0004 % chance of death. Statistically speaking, every time you get inside a car you have a higher chance of death than when taking MDMA.
You mention changes in the serotonin receptor structure after long term use? Yes, in long term users of E, a decreased amount of serotonin receptors has been found when compared to non E users (and by "E users", we mean those who have injested pills sold to them as Ecstasy, which makes it hard to have completely 100% accurrate studies because we know that many E pills actually contain very little MDMA and more amphetamine). However, it is unknown how this decrease actually affects those afflicted. Cognitively, they were well in the "normal" range expected for their age group, and their short term memory was relatively unaffeced, only slightly below normal. Essentially, despite this so-called drastic serotonin reduction due to MDMA abuse, these individuals still appeared relatively normal. Also, there is preliminary evidence that after a few months abstinence much of this damage is repaired and the brain begins to re-regulate, approaching its default serotonin levels.
As far as the efficiency of the supplements goes, I can only really provide you with personal experience. I've never had a hangover from a pill, except for one time where I stupidly did not test my pill and ended up taking one that was all methamphetamine. In that case, the supplements dont do shit and I had the worst come down in the history of the world. Not only do I feel no residual dumbing or blunting effects from the drug, but I usually am even more contemplative and thoughtful than usual the days following a roll. I usually end up writing a lot more than I usually do. It's very nice. Other than that, my friends and I have had no negative residual effects what so ever from our E use. I realize though that we probably are a special case, since not many drug users I know test all their pills, take vitamins before and during the roll, and supplement with 5-HTP after the experience. I also realize that many people stupidly do E every weekend.
All I'm trying to say is that my friends and I are living proof that E can be used occasionally and very responsibly with negligible health effects, If you don't think you can limit use to once a month, or aren't willing to take the necessary precautions to safeguard your brain, then you should probably never take MDMA.
triceratops
Well-known member
frizboy said:
Your just insulting your intelligence by opening your mouth.
triceratops
Well-known member
frizboy said:
yeah im sorry i just couldnt resist putting that previous comment 8)
BornAgain
Well-known member
frizboy said:
Those options may be safer than E, but neither of them are at all similar to each other. E is extremely euphoric, Benzos kinda calm you down, alcohol decreases your inhibitions and can make you dizzy, and weed makes you trip out! At least for me, weed makes me a lot more anxious and self counscious, and it is the worse out of all of those for SA. And I used to be a heavy every day user!
My sources of information is personal experience, others' experience, and science put together. I dont listen to government propaganda or any drug propaganda for that matter.
And maggie, i know all that name calling was immature, but i was only trying to prove a point. I wasnt really serious, its just that sometimes when you call people names, it shows something about them and their argument.
ImSoTired
Member
Oh my, I thought I was the only one who still had symptoms of anxiety even after drinking!! I'm not a heavy drinker nor a casual drinker...but once in a while I will drink a little when I'm feeling antsy...for instance, just now...whisky.
I do remember that those few moments I did get drunk, I got more tired, drowsy and lost my balance...but overall I still was concerned with my actions, I got more depressed, I was not as nervous but I still had bad racing thoughts, I knew what I was doing and I also remembered the day after what I was thinking and doing, I know what others were doing and how their actions affected me.... It's really something I shouldn't do because I become less concerned of my wellbeing, I still get insecure and still have low-self esteem, I have scary thoughts that my drunk companion will do something careless and regretful that could hurt me (but I believe that I deserve it), and I don't care about myself that I might end up doing something hurtful to myself.
I do remember that those few moments I did get drunk, I got more tired, drowsy and lost my balance...but overall I still was concerned with my actions, I got more depressed, I was not as nervous but I still had bad racing thoughts, I knew what I was doing and I also remembered the day after what I was thinking and doing, I know what others were doing and how their actions affected me.... It's really something I shouldn't do because I become less concerned of my wellbeing, I still get insecure and still have low-self esteem, I have scary thoughts that my drunk companion will do something careless and regretful that could hurt me (but I believe that I deserve it), and I don't care about myself that I might end up doing something hurtful to myself.
BornAgain
Well-known member
Honestly, despite the raging debate about drugs in the last couple of posts, I think everyone with SA and depression should try cocaine at least once so you can get the feel of what it's like to be an energetic, confident person, or to get temporary relief from it, but that may lead to addiction easier and faster. Once you know how it feels to be normal, then you can try to emulate your experience and incorporate it into your personality. I stick to my word.