What messages does your life experience tell you

[KiaKaha]

See I think the problem so many of us have is seeing things through distorted thinking - which makes it so difficult to get over our fears and insecurities.

I believe that we are all products of our upbringing and our environment - and its where stereotypes and generalizations come from, no matter how irrational.

I read somewhere than when we are babies the only two real fears we have are - fear of loud noises and fear of falling - everything else is conditioning.

When I look into myself, I think about what it is that I have "learned" from my time of being alive - and even though these messages and beliefs arent necessarily true, I have come to believe them because I have been taught them from experiencing life.

The point that I am trying to get at is - even if they arent true - is it any WONDER that people feel the way that they do about themselves...? Is it any wonder that people think about certain things a certain way... its because there life has told them so - its the conclusions that they have made about themselves - to rationalize and make sense of their environment...

does that make sense?

Here is what I think about myself - which I believe that somewhere down the line - I have been taught and believed from others.

- I am not good enough
- I am unattractive
- I am too skinny
- People dont take me seriously
- I am unimportant
- I am unpopular
- People dont respect me
- People dont want to know or be around me
- No one cares about me
- Women dont like me
- People only want to know me if the can get something out of me

The issue isnt about whether or not these statements are true - the issue is about an acknowledgement as to the reasons of WHY people feel these things (or other things that are similar to you personally)

I hope you all know what it is I am trying to say here...

Its about rules, assumptions and learned behaviour - it all has to come from somewhere.

 

[KiaKaha]

What I mean is - if someone has low self esteem - should they really be blamed for having low self esteem? Dont people realize that its not a choice...?

 

[KiaKaha]

Anyone? No...? Ok then.

Probably got it wrong... again.

 

[MikeyC]

I think I understand what you're saying. I have my own beliefs which I know deep down are untrue, but that's how I feel. That is because of my school life more than anything, and even though I've been out of school for over 8 years, it still affects me negatively.

Low self-esteem can be conquered, but it takes some crazy willpower and cognitive behaviour therapy. I hope you can start seeing yourself the way I see you.

 

[coyote]

regardless of what I may have encountered in the world
the one common denominator, by definition, is me
my thoughts and feelings are my own
they may have been influenced by what i have encountered
but they are my thoughts now to deal with for better or worse
i can choose to remain this way or change something
i cannot change the world, i can only change myself
taking responsibility for changing my own thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes isn't a matter of assuming blame
it's about taking power - power over my own life
i may not have chosen to think the way i do now
but now i have the power to choose to think another way
i live in the present, not the past
and what happens in the present creates the future
it doesn't matter what happened in the past - it can't be changed
what matters is making the necessary adjustments to my thinking that will allow me to move forward
and create a better future for myself

 

[KiaKaha]

What I am trying to get at - is that all of us come to conclusions right? Every single one of us whether they be conclusions that other people will agree with, or not. We are products of our experience - mostly... and it takes a LOT of work to change that.

If someone comes to the conclusion that "All Asians are bad drivers" - its obviously not true - but to the person that believes that, they believe that because something has shown them that that statement is true - the outcome of their experience has led them to believe this - whether its right or wrong.

I mean things like racism and political ideology even - are products of how we see the world. So can someone really be blamed - if they have a point of view that is so vastly contrasted from ones own...? We learn generalizations - based on experience. Whether they be good or bad.

Its not necessarily pleasant - and it can be frustrating... but we all have biases. Yeah I have low self esteem - but thats only because my ego takes a beating over and over and over and over and over and over again. I get the "message" - One can only take so much - before they give up..

Do people think that if one commits suicide is because they truly want to die? No... of course not. They do so because they have no other way - they have been beaten down so often so much that they can no longer clearly see thing in a realistic way and the only option is to end their own life.

 

[coyote]

"i was merely following orders" - camp guard at Auschwitz

 

[KiaKaha]

Man...

*buries face in hands*

 

[coyote]

sorry .....

 

[Kat]

Negativity has proven to me to be unproductive, it is somewhat necessary but in small doses. Conflicting evidence has sculpted me in one form or another and created biases but that’s not always a bad thing it’s what helps to creates your individuality bit it also is what makes it hard for you to fit into certain molds but it also allows you to discover your kindred but we are all one of a kind and in that it can creates a sense of loneliness. But positivity pushes you to keep trying.

 

[KiaKaha]

sorry .....

Sorry for making you say sorry.

I just feel like no one gets it. No one seems to want to acknowledge the limits of tolerance that one can have.

I am not as negative as I may appear - I just want some acknowledgement that things go wrong, people sometimes need to be blamed - and that not all of the answers come from within ourselves.... sometimes.

I want someone to understand...just for once...where I am coming from.

 

[coyote]

i totally get where you're coming from
yes, bad stuff happens to good people - i agree
it's what happens afterwards where we disagree

bad stuff happens
but then what?
I can spend the rest of my days complaining about it
or trying to figure out who to blame for it
but then what?
punish them?
will that make me feel better?
will that make my life better?

punishing THEM doesn't fix what's wrong inside ME
they can't do it - they can't come and fix me from outside
even if they wanted to
only i can do that - it's up to me to do it

 

[Opaline]

Sorry for making you say sorry.

I just feel like no one gets it. No one seems to want to acknowledge the limits of tolerance that one can have.

I am not as negative as I may appear - I just want some acknowledgement that things go wrong, people sometimes need to be blamed - and that not all of the answers come from within ourselves.... sometimes.

I want someone to understand...just for once...where I am coming from.

I totally get what you're saying and I feel the same way.

I hate taking the victim mentality because it seems so pathetic and weak. But I also struggle to be positive when I just don't feel it. How can I pretend to be positive when I feel the complete opposite? How do I change those feelings? I honestly don't know. I can only do so much. I feel like I've spent years now fighting the demons in my head and now I'm just left standing here, completely clueless as to what to do next (besides trying meds and counselor again, but I'm afraid that won't be a permanent fix... if you get my meaning).

I don't know. The more I think about it, the more baffled I am by existence as a human being. It's so strange... You don't choose your looks, your major personality traits, the way your brain operates, all the genetic stuff. And yet this determines so much of how your life is going to be.

The other parts are left to you to make choices, but one can only do so much. Depending on how resilient you are, this may not be so hard.

I am not resilient. Why? Is it because I choose not to be? I'd like to be resilient so if I am choosing not to be, how do I choose to be? How does one go about becoming tough and determined?

So yes, I get what you're saying. You can only take so much before you feel like you just want to give up because it's exhausting. Why spend your life fighting? Some people want to spend their lives fighting, they see it as a battle and if they get to the end they have made it, mission accomplished. Others just want to enjoy it while they have it, but can't seem to.

I don't know. They say you are the one who determines your happiness, but how can that be true when so much of what supposedly brings happiness seems to lie in external things?

I'm not so sure.

I'm still trying to find my peace, my happiness. I wonder if I will. I wonder if just by wondering if I ever will, that mindset will set me up to never be happy. In that case, I guess I am screwed, because this is the way I think, haha.

I do know one thing, though: I think WAAAYYYYY too much ::

 

[MikeyC]

I don't know. The more I think about it, the more baffled I am by existence as a human being. It's so strange... You don't choose your looks, your major personality traits, the way your brain operates, all the genetic stuff. And yet this determines so much of how your life is going to be.

The other parts are left to you to make choices, but one can only do so much. Depending on how resilient you are, this may not be so hard.

Life is not customised for everyone, unfortunately, and this is one explanation why.

 

[KiaKaha]

i totally get where you're coming from
yes, bad stuff happens to good people - i agree
it's what happens afterwards where we disagree

bad stuff happens
but then what?
I can spend the rest of my days complaining about it
or trying to figure out who to blame for it
but then what?
punish them?
will that make me feel better?
will that make my life better?

punishing THEM doesn't fix what's wrong inside ME
they can't do it - they can't come and fix me from outside
even if they wanted to
only i can do that - it's up to me to do it

I acknowledge that dwelling and living in the past isn't healthy and not productive - I understand that I am aware that being passive in ones own position is not going to help, one needs to be proactive .... but dont you think that if someone never gets satiated with their desires or even basic needs that that person is going to find the strength and the will power to carry on? Dont you think that their outlook on life is going to be vastly different than someone who gets what they want at least once in a while?

If someone does something to me wrong (and I have a high tolerance for putting up with crap, they would have to go pretty far), and they get punished....will it make me feel better? Too bloody right it would. Would it make my life better? Maybe... it would bring me peace I imagine.

My old man lost $20,000 through a crooked investment company - and its only now is he seeing any kind of justice done.

The reason why people find it so difficult to see my point of view, is because they think they wont ever hit rock bottom. They cant imagine it - and if you think you have... think again. You can go lower than that...much lower, to the point where you can no longer think sensibly and rationally.

 

[Nathália]

i totally get where you're coming from
yes, bad stuff happens to good people - i agree
it's what happens afterwards where we disagree
bad stuff happens
but then what?
I can spend the rest of my days complaining about it
or trying to figure out who to blame for it
but then what?
punish them?
will that make me feel better?
will that make my life better?

punishing THEM doesn't fix what's wrong inside ME
they can't do it - they can't come and fix me from outside
even if they wanted to
only i can do that - it's up to me to do it

What if things can not be fixed because is viewed as deviant to a majority? Such as social anxiety, people who barely talk and another array of things that are classified as mental illnesses, so we have to go to fix them, to function the way society wants us to? I do believe that our environment does affect us, but there are other factors too. You have to think about the fears that we pick up from things outside of our environment and other peoples environment like the media that we see and some of it's psychological because what's naturally scary to one person may not be to the next due to the way another person may process different situations because there are different thinking styles..can we inherent our thinking and natural feelings to not be interested in something? Some would argue that the education system (American) does not cater to the different way individuals thinks and process things. There are multiple things that makes up our environment more than the bad experiences that we are dealt with. Our personalities may affect how we handle situations also. I do not know much about genetic, but what about considering genetics to be a factor and it not being able to be controlled? What does it mean to "live your life"? That is very vague, you will continue to have biases no matter what. Throughout your life time many things will have/had an affect on you. I think to much, but I am just trying to understand the context of "live your life" because when we're living out lives don't certain events shape who we are today? We all have different opinions and what we hold to be truth, but another person may not because they were not in the same experience that you were in or they just see it as illogical nonsense because certain things do not appeal to them. It may not be due to a conformation bias or environment factors, can one not just disagree because it's not their preference? Then that is begging the question, but I don't know another way to put it.

 

[KiaKaha]

You don't choose your looks, your major personality traits, the way your brain operates, all the genetic stuff. And yet this determines so much of how your life is going to be.

The other parts are left to you to make choices, but one can only do so much. Depending on how resilient you are, this may not be so hard.

Its not really about a vicitim mentality - thats easy to identify - and lets not even go there.

It is about natural resilience, all of us have different thresholds - which is why the strong cant FATHOM someone elses perceived weakness.... its about putting yourself into other peoples shoes and identifying and acknowledging the way that they feel, even if it is self pitying.... not negating ones emotions... thats just insulting. Only then when people feel that they are being LISTENED too, even if it makes no sense to you.... can they be helped.

Its about acknowledging that its OK to complain, its OK to blame someone, because sometimes people are wrong and they should be made accountable. Its alright to feel resentment, if that's they way you feel - it comes from somewhere so its OK to feel it - its alright to ask for help sometimes.

I sometimes wonder - what are peoples opinions on here about suicide? Last time I asked this the thread got deleted for some reason - I dont know why, its a perfectly rational and relevant topic.

I wonder - how many people view suicide as "giving up" and how many people see it as merely a response to pain?

I dont advocate giving up - I just think that when people do - theres a reason for it, and that it should be understood and sympathized with.

 

[Opaline]

I sometimes wonder - what are peoples opinions on here about suicide? Last time I asked this the thread got deleted for some reason - I dont know why, its a perfectly rational and relevant topic.

I wonder - how many people view suicide as "giving up" and how many people see it as merely a response to pain?

I view it as both a response to pain and as giving up, if it for those reasons - because you are in pain and because you don't want to fight any more. But, if what you're getting at is, do I see it as cowardly? No. I hate that many do. How can taking your own life be cowardly, do these people realize just how difficult a thing that is? I think most of them have never been there. They've never felt despair so awful that they don't want to feel their heart beating another minute, it hurts so bad. I know that sounds dramatic, and I myself have not gotten *quite* so bad, but I know someone who has. And I have felt pretty low myself.

If someone has in fact felt that despair and yet still thinks it's cowardly, that just boggles my mind. They know how hard it is to agonize over that decision I would assume, so it doesn't make any sense. Unless they are just ashamed...

I read a post online once where someone said something like "if you commit suicide, you are a selfish coward, and don't expect anyone to really care except your loved ones. Most people who hurt you won't feel bad, they will be amused and some will mock you and then just move on and forget you". I'm not sure if this person is right or not, but I wouldn't want to delude myself into thinking many would feel sooooo bad for me and be weeping. Most who heard WOULD probably be vaguely surprised, some may not be. Some may find it funny or pathetic. And then they'd brush it off and move on. I mean I can't expect my death to mean that much to many outside of my closest loved ones. It does make me sad, though.

 

[Kat]

feeling bad when reality reflects bad is understandable, it doesn’t mean it has to stay the same sometimes you have no control. Crazy thing is you would think feeling suicidal is the lowest a person could feel but even then I had moments where I was optimistic about life. I don’t think there’s necessarily a wrong or right way other than one is hurtful and other helpful. I think one can’t really exist without the other both realities do exist but I have a bias towards positivity.

 

[montejocarlo]

I just feel like no one gets it. No one seems to want to acknowledge the limits of tolerance that one can have.

I am not as negative as I may appear - I just want some acknowledgement that things go wrong, people sometimes need to be blamed - and that not all of the answers come from within ourselves.... sometimes.

I want someone to understand...just for once...where I am coming from.

many people on this forum understand you more than you think they do. we're all bound by our emotions. and those emotions make us see things in a distorted way. and yes, it hadn't been our choice.

i also blame people for the things that go wrong in my life. i don't want to be resentful. it's a terrible feeling to have but i can't help it sometimes. people hurt each other everyday whether we realize it or not. being angry, being reproachful, or being prejudicial doesn't make a person evil. nobody can blame us for that.

when i was a kid, someone in my family used to yell at me and embarrass me in front of others. i couldn't do anything about it then. in my country, if you talk back to older folks, you're a rude ungrateful child. it doesn't matter if the older person is right or wrong.

it came to a point when i was extremely furious that i wanted to spit on the person's face. the instances of him humiliating me continued to my adolescence. i began to be disgusted of myself. i believed that those who heard him reprimand me thought i was stupid. since then, i was forced to live with a tormentor in my head- a nagging feeling at the back of my mind that every person i meet looks down on me. i became clumsy and awkward. whenever i turned my back, i felt like people were laughing at me. my movements became stiff, trying to take perfect caution because surely, people were watching me and expecting me to make a mistake. and of course, all of it, i blamed on that certain someone.

i was convinced then that my hatred was justified. when you've been so badly damaged, it's almost impossible to look past things. i hate it when religions say, "those who commit suicide are sinful." when someone decides to end his own life, it means that he had been suffering beyond endurance. suffering that only few understand. no one consciously wants to be in pain. there are times when i find myself envying the courage others might have had to put an end to their misery. i will never have the strength of character to take such drastic action.

if you feel in a certain way, let it be. nobody can tell you otherwise. acknowledge your emotions. taste it if you must but don't act upon them or you might do something you'd later regret. emotions, no matter how much justified are irrational.