Terrorism affected your SA?

[ScaredGirl]

Hi Remus,

If the Muslim community as a whole is not to address this issue, and the governments of the world are not to address this issue then who is? I think my solution is the best and the most peaceful. Muslim people taking care of Muslim people. The Koran has rules for living and rules of war.... randomly killing people isn't part of it. There were muslims, jews, christians and everything in between at those locations. Children, women, old people, bystanders and people just going to work, vacation or simply minding their own business. The terrorists allowed themselves to be deluded into thinking the passangers of the trains, bus, planes, buildings, boats are 'infidels' because they wanted to feel important in their own minds and by tricking their own moral conscience with rhetoric that ultimately makes no sense.

There were muslims, jews, christians, and everything inbetween at those locations. Children, women, old people, bystanders and people just going to work, at work and going on vacation, minding their own business. They were not warriors, with a stated mission to purge the world of non-christians. They were none of the things they are accussed of being. They were innocent people.

I too have Muslim friends (Canada is no longer considered a Christian nation) and I still believe the terrorists are a Muslim problem to be dealt with by the Muslim community because they say they represent ALL Muslims and like I said, personally, I will not let someone else speak for me, particularly if their words and actions hurt other people.

SG

 

[Remus]

The Muslim community is and has been dealing with it in the UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4695275.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4694441.stm

 

[Yossarian]

The terrorists took down those buildings, blew up that bus and subway for their own personal enjoyment - no different then the mental patient who stands in the church tower kills pedestrians with a rifle.

Ok fine I can see there is no point talking to you about this. You seem to have ignored pretty much everything I have said. I have already pointed out I agree with you that the Muslim community has a role to play in preventing these attacks occuring. I have never said that world governments should not do anything about it. I also pointed out several times that I didn't agree with with what they did. I also pointed out that trying to understand the bombers reasons was very different from accepting their reasons. I feel it's a shame you can't try and understand what I am trying to say about a very serious issue such as this. I guess unless I agree with everything you say I must be against you and therefore automatically on the side of evil.

Hmmm......sounds familiar.....

 

[blubs]

According to your point of view Scared Girl...in that the 'Muslim community' should take reponsibility for these terrorist actions, should I feel a sense of responsibility for every evil action made by a person from my own background/culture?
I'm only responsible for my own actions, and so is anybody else.
Sorry if I misunderstand your viewpoint :?

 

[Remus]

I guess unless I agree with everything you say I must be against you and therefore automatically on the side of evil.

Hmmm......sounds familiar.....

hey cmon, I dont think she meant that mate

 

[Fredscars]

i dont wish to offend anyone here...

but personally, i think it is a kind of denial thought going on, which persuades us that these terrorists must be really evil, disturbed people..but really they are not. Again, on the radio they interviewd one of the london bombers friends who could not beleive that his friend had been responsible because he was so kind, loving and loyal. he had no fanatical ideas that he told any one about, he had a wife and kids whom he loved dearly.
these are normal people with normal lives, who feel they have a cause to promote.
im not condoning their actions. I cannot express the sadness i feel for those affected by their action..but it is important for people to understand that these are people raised in everyday society.
When this radio thing had ended, people wrote in exclaiming their disgust..they did not want to hear that someoe who had killed so many was a nice person - but if we do not accept these simply facts, how will we ever go to combatting the situation. To understand why they feel it necessary to rpomote their cause in such violent manners, we must first understand why they believe in their cause, and why they see that action as necessary.

 

[wistful_dementia]

Basically, if a person (or community) builds a Frankenstein, sets it loose on the world, then it is their responsibility to capture and/or deal with the beast. If they chooses not to...then...they should not cry when someone else slays it for being the danger that it is.

i agree. the sooner someone takes out Bush and the US and British army the better. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq

Min
22838

Max
25869

hmmm....let people take personal responsibility... the majority of those killed were killed by rebels and insurgents... I believed from the beginning that the war was a mistake, but people were killing each other because their 'god' told them to long before the US, the idiotic president Bush, or the British military came along.

Regardless, I think the whole situation in Iraq is tragic. I just think that in order to come to resolutions people should keep the proper perspectives.

 

[KeepTheFaith01]

i think it is a kind of denial thought going on, which persuades us that these terrorists must be really evil, disturbed people..but really they are not. Again, on the radio they interviewd one of the london bombers friends who could not beleive that his friend had been responsible because he was so kind, loving and loyal. he had no fanatical ideas that he told any one about, he had a wife and kids whom he loved dearly.
these are normal people with normal lives, who feel they have a cause to promote.
im not condoning their actions. I cannot express the sadness i feel for those affected by their action..but it is important for people to understand that these are people raised in everyday society.
When this radio thing had ended, people wrote in exclaiming their disgust..they did not want to hear that someoe who had killed so many was a nice person - but if we do not accept these simply facts, how will we ever go to combatting the situation. To understand why they feel it necessary to rpomote their cause in such violent manners, we must first understand why they believe in their cause, and why they see that action as necessary.

i dont agree with it. i'd say why, but i'm too tired lol. maybe i'll come back tommorow and bore you with my opinion

 

[wistful_dementia]

The people that carry out these acts are not evil as easier as it might be to believe this. Very few people have ever carried out attrocities for the sake of being evil. They are as heart breaking as it is, good people, with good hearts who believe what they do is for the best. Of course I don't believe what they do is for the best but it is what they believe that is important.

I believe that you are correct. There are many people because of their lack of understanding and perspective (also fear, anger, and pride) who want to lable these people as 'evil' when in fact they aren't. I believe the main problem is the oppression the extremist feel combined with a us versus them mentality. In my opinion religion is man made and is divisive. To be fair, I do remember in the not to distant past when the religious leaders of the US promoted the mass slaughter and the taking of land of millions of Native Americans.

As far as terrorism conducted by islamic extremist (miitants) it has been going on long before 911 or the invasion of Iraq by the US colition if nobody has heard.

As far as grievances... there are many and alot of them are vague... as far as I can gather the root of the problem is the US support of dictatorships and Israel. In my opinion the best way to solve this is for the world to end support to dictators + ending religion and adopting a nondivisive, compassionate philosophies such as socialism and humanism. Imagine no more religious conservatives who just irrationally react to injustices by dropping bombs on people's heads ... without dialogue with the rest of the world that has legit greivances... and finally the jews won't kill the palestinians because they believe their god gives them the right to the territory, the right to kill, and the palestinians won't feel like their god give them the justifcation and right to do the same! They would finally be able to live side by side in either a majority ruled state or to separate states.

 

[wistful_dementia]

Yoss is right, some people beliveing they have a cuase against something ,will put thier lives on the line, terrorists or freedom fighters?

The US was once a rebellious colony of the British Empire, with loyalists and rebels on both sides of the revolution, the rebels were seen as terrorists, now history writes them as freedom fighter.

hmmm.... I don't recall the US rebels going to england and blowing up civilians. And although there were isolated incidents of rebels killing loyalists and vice-versus.... and british troops killing civilians (very few)... society at large condemned those people as barbaric and uncivilized.

So although I agree in concept with most of what you say... and I hope you aren't offended by my opinions... I think that that little section is not a good analogy... sorry

 

[wistful_dementia]

oh yeah, terrorism has only affected my SA slightly and indirectly because of all the negativity going on... it has brought me down a little and when I become somewhat sad I become somewhat more sensitive towards judgement. Maybe I should watch much less news

 

[ScaredGirl]

First of all, I heard on the news that over 50% of the body count was due Iraqi's killing Iraqi's.

Second of all, you are ignoring the reason why Iraq was invaded - Saddam refused to allow weapons inspectors into the country. He was given many many many opportunities to let them in, he knew what was coming, he was given many opportunites to put an end to the invasion but didn't take them. Put the blame where it blame where it belongs - on Saddam, not the State or Britian.

Third, the fact that family and friends were shocked is no surprised, what else are they going to say, 'Ya, he really hated Britian/Christians/the western world, I'm not surprised he did it' or ' Certainly, he went to his terrorist cell group every tuesday night.' Of course they say they had no idea what he was up to, and if they really didn't....that's even scarier because that would make the terrorist even more of a psychopath then they already appear to be.

The bombings are terrible, the goups who do them say they speak for all Muslims, it's time for Muslims to unite and tell them they do not agree.

SG

 

[Savannah]

Hello everyone,
..humm... has Terrorism affected your SA? yes yes.. in more ways then I can handle at times.

Death is upsetting to me (and so, I don't watch news) it doesn't really matter whos..it's a waste of a wonderful life. And although I've heard people joke about 'world peace'.. I truly wished we could have it.

I'm also muslim...and very happy I am. Your whole life is pretty much set, and you just have to follow it It doesn't include anything that is going on in the world today in regards to what 'muslims' are doing. The ONLY reason you can go to war (which is really what it is) is if you are not allowed to practice your religion (Islam). And even then, you can't fight/kill women, children, and elders. And suicide is not allowed. If you take your own life (for whatever reason) you do not die as a muslim.
I hope that sheds a little light on things.

Having SA.. well, you can all imagine what it's like to go shopping. It's bad enough having people look at you (or maybe they aren't looking).. but if they have painted every muslim with the same brush (which seems to be the case, unfortunately) then the whole shopping experience is horrifying.

Someone mentioned the muslim community getting together and taking care of their own (not in those words). I believe the muslim community is helping (I have heard they are helping).. but how do you take care of your own, when you don't consider them that?

Anyway.. I'm sorry if I phrased anything wrong, or offend anyone.. I usually skip these posts in every community/forum.. but I'd hate to leave a group I need.. and usually that's what ends up happening.

 

[Remus]

Very very good points Savannah, we have to be careful not to tar people or cummunities with the same brush just because of the actions of a few religious extremists.

 

[ScaredGirl]

Hi Savanah,

I'm terribly sorry you have been discriminated against.

However, there will only be tolerance and understanding if there is willingness from each religious community to speak up and *against* those from within and without who distort the worlds perception of their faith. You must understand that people in stores (and other locations) may not be friendly because they are afraid you are carrying a bomb. The muslim-extremists have been very loud and clear in telling the world all muslims should unite against non-muslims and 1) the muslim community has been slow to denounce them, 2) there has been misguided and misinformed sympathy for the terrorists. Like I have been saying.....the crusades were just about a thousand years ago, the western world is not all Christian/white and muslim-hating, nor did Bush and Blair start the Iraqi war. Saddam is responsible for that for refusing to allow in weapons inspectors.

But..... I think I am telling you somthing that you already know in your heart. So.... speak out! Like.....wear a head scarf in a particular colour that denotes your disaproval and get others to do the same! Or.....start selling lapel buttons that clearly state the rules of your faith. Otherwise my friend, how can non-muslims diferentiate you from those who have done those terrible acts if you wear clothing that shows your faith?

By the way, since yesterday I saw numerous broadcasts from leaders in the Canadian muslim community who were very strong in their outrage of this distortion of their faith. That's what needs to be done. No sitting on the fence.

SG

 

[ScaredGirl]

Dear Savanah,

I should also say, I believe the muslims-extremists are just as hateful towards the muslim religion as they are towards their delusion of what the 'western world' is all about. Its sad because good people like yourself who are following your faith the way it was meant to be are feeling the effects of their words.


SG

 

[Savannah]

Thank you Remus and ScaredGirl for your positive replies.

ScaredGirl, I can't really comment on the political side of this whole thing, because I honestly don't follow it..don't understand it, don't believe all of it..and therefore I don't have any view on it.

But, I must say.. I think I NOW understand what you are saying by "speak out", and as weird as this sounds.. I never thought of it, or could see it from your point of view. Thank you. I agree with what you said.. although someone with SA is probably not the best for this.. I shall see what little difference I can make (maybe it will account for something).

Thank you again *I see the light.. hehe*

 

[ScaredGirl]

Hi Savanah,

You are probably right, political acitvism in person for someone with SP would be mighty hard :idea: but....perhaps when it comes up in conversation you will now have a new/different perspective to view things from.

I mentioned 'The Screwtape Letters' by CS Lewis in an earlier post, get yourself a copy from the library and read it.

Have a great day,

((( Hugs )))

SG

 

[racheH]

The terrorists took down those buildings, blew up that bus and subway for their own personal enjoyment - no different then the mental patient who stands in the church tower kills pedestrians with a rifle

Sorry to go off topic but as someone who should have been the relative of someone with a serious brain disorder (this person killed themselves before I was born) I must protest at your comparing such people with terrorists. This person happened to be a respected vicar and has been much missed by the family and I'm sure by parishners. His wife temporarily became a mental patient herself in response to it. I hope you'll understand then, why the spread of the image of such people as church-hating murderers affects me so much. Bringing them into discussions like this may be harmful.

Add all this to the complication that 1 in 100 people develop a psychotic disorder at some time in their lives, and that many of our members here are too young to yet know if we are likely to be one of them, given the age it tends to start at.

I'm quite willing to believe you weren't trying to say that all mental patients are dangerous, but really it is your theory of the mindset of those few who are (20 out of 400 homicide cases) that I am obliged to refute. If, heaven forbid, you find yourself having visions of your own death or hear threatening voices you believe to be God/demons etc explaining why everyone is evil, how they all deserve it… I doubt you'd have much to say of the ‘enjoyment’ gained from the whole experience. Thankfully, or perhaps not, very few among even paranoid schizophrenics ever have to think about this scenario. If more people did, perhaps they wouldn’t currently be 6 times more likely to be murdered than the rest of the public.

The only way you can compare psychotic murderers (the crime you descibed would only make someone a mental patient if he were psychotic) to terrorists is to say that it's impossible to know for sure what makes them behave as they sometimes do. However, open-minded discussion and reasoning go furthur than confirming their beliefs about our pitiless nature. If anyone kills solely for pleasure, why would they make it come at such a high personal cost, like prison or their own death, or even worse, one of those modern asylums? Out of fear and/or misguided bids for justice. It just doesn’t make logical sense any other way, unless we cling to fairy tales about some born to kill and others born the 'good guys', which I think someone has already mentioned.

We're mostly phobic, here, right? We know how uncontrollable fear can be. We're the lucky ones, that the worst our fear makes us do to people is shunning them. I don't mind admitting that if what stood in the way of me saving someone's life was one of my phobias, I'd struggle terribly to overcome it. Its power is in its irrationality.

If anyone's interested in these issues, I recommend www.rethink.org/cgi-bin/bulletinboard/discus.cgi to hear it from someone other than the media for once. Given the kind of people most prone to these afflictions, I imagine they can share their experiences much more articulately than I.

If it turns out that I over-reacted to or misunderstood the comment, then I'm sorry. I'm glad I've made the point anyway, though, because I can't have been the only one to interpret it that way, and a lot of impressionable people use the Internet, who could be the 'scits go home' brigade of tomorrow.:roll:
I hope I haven't come allowed my strength of feeling to come across as in any way negative. I'm not judging anyone for their views and I don't believe that mine make me superior – we may all be fighting the same fight, in our own way. Personally, I trust God to know everyone's soul.