Suicide

[Gone]

Hi, because i'm new, I don't know you very well, so I cannot judge you (and that's not my goal). But what I can tell is that I was feeling exactly the same just one month ago. I decided to see a psychiatrist and I've begin a treatment (of citalopram). Today, i feel much better, more optimistic about my life. Things are not perfect, I still feel bad sometimes but there's a big difference with what I felt just one month ago.
So why don't you try to see a psychiatrist (Crayzorder and flakeybarrk), it may be helpful. If you already tried, well sorry, i've no more advice .
I'm sorry if I appeared to be offensive or rude, that was not my intention at all.

Don't worry, your post was not offensive at all, and good advice as well.
Also your english is perfect so no worries about that either

 

[marciaX3]

i admit that suicide is constantly on my mind. ever since my dad died when i was 9, i have wanted to die, and not a day goes by w/o me wishing i was dead. yeah, i had my attempts as well, obviously sucky ones. i've banished god from my life (no offense to anyone). i truly blame him for all the crap that has happened to me in my life. and no, these were not things i had control over or could've changed. these are things/people that happened *to* me. i even rated "very high" in "suicidality" when my therapist did my 3 month evaluation so it's always in the back of my mind to want to die.

so my point is, i have a decent idea of where you're coming from. i'd say the biggest reason i haven't died yet is b/c i need to live for my little brothers. in the event that my mom dies, i don't want them to go to anyone except me. no one else can take care of them. if it weren't for them, i would've jumped in front of the train or walked into incoming traffic long ago.

i can't say if we'd be "happier" if we were dead. i'm not sure if we definitely go to hell for killing ourselves or not since there's no way of knowing until you're going through it yourself. all i know is that i'm tired as hell of the life i've had to live and the way life has tormented me... anyhow, i hope that whatever you do, you find what you're searching for.

First, my condolences for the loss of your father, which has obviously affected you deeply.

It's true, as you mention, that one does not have control over external events in one's life that can cause suicidal feelings etc. However, it's important to realize that it's not the events in themselves that cause these feelings and emotions, it's the way you perceive the events...if I am being bullied, I could say that its the bullying that is causing my depression...but actually it's my negative thoughts associated with the bullying that's making me sad, not the actually bullying in itself...in other words, in order for the cause (the bullying) to have an effect (i.e. depression) on me, I first need to perceive the cause as being negative...it's the way you interpret external events that create the feelings, not the actual events in themselves...to keep to the example, if you analyze the bullying and come to the conclusion that what they are saying is untrue, then it has no negative effect on you...so, whatever is creating suicidal feelings in you, you need to change the way you interpret these causes (whether it be the death of your father or whatever it may be). Understand that his time had come, do not take responsability for his death...if that's what you are doing. I hope at least some of this makes sense! But you have a great reason to live: your younger brothers...as you say: you could not commit suicide because you have a responsability to be there for them, should it be nessesary. Kudos for that.. OMG..sorry for the long, long post...

naniwazu,

i think i understand what you're saying and you're probably right... my therapist says the same stuff to me, that it's how i interpret things that usually cause me to become even more anxious and depressed. i have a very distorted way of thinking i guess.

but i don't get how you can have positive thoughts about bad things. i'll continue your example of bullying b/c i was severely bullied when i was about 12-13, much of it i blocked out too. i'm having trouble figuring out how you have positive thoughts about being bullied?? how do you just live your life w/o being affected by the bullying when it happens every day?? i guess i just don't understand how this would work for certain events and circumstances... and unfortunately, it's not just my dad's death that makes me feel this way. it was the starting event, but there were plenty of other events that happened as the years have gone by.

 

[lettypagb]

Another thing that keeps me going i guess, is the lame hope that if i can just live on long enough, some magical solution is going to appear out of nowhere and make everything right, i dread the day i realise thats not going to happen.

Exactly how I feel.

whoo ,that was a suicide inspiration

 

[Naniwazu]

i admit that suicide is constantly on my mind. ever since my dad died when i was 9, i have wanted to die, and not a day goes by w/o me wishing i was dead. yeah, i had my attempts as well, obviously sucky ones. i've banished god from my life (no offense to anyone). i truly blame him for all the crap that has happened to me in my life. and no, these were not things i had control over or could've changed. these are things/people that happened *to* me. i even rated "very high" in "suicidality" when my therapist did my 3 month evaluation so it's always in the back of my mind to want to die.

so my point is, i have a decent idea of where you're coming from. i'd say the biggest reason i haven't died yet is b/c i need to live for my little brothers. in the event that my mom dies, i don't want them to go to anyone except me. no one else can take care of them. if it weren't for them, i would've jumped in front of the train or walked into incoming traffic long ago.

i can't say if we'd be "happier" if we were dead. i'm not sure if we definitely go to hell for killing ourselves or not since there's no way of knowing until you're going through it yourself. all i know is that i'm tired as hell of the life i've had to live and the way life has tormented me... anyhow, i hope that whatever you do, you find what you're searching for.

First, my condolences for the loss of your father, which has obviously affected you deeply.

It's true, as you mention, that one does not have control over external events in one's life that can cause suicidal feelings etc. However, it's important to realize that it's not the events in themselves that cause these feelings and emotions, it's the way you perceive the events...if I am being bullied, I could say that its the bullying that is causing my depression...but actually it's my negative thoughts associated with the bullying that's making me sad, not the actually bullying in itself...in other words, in order for the cause (the bullying) to have an effect (i.e. depression) on me, I first need to perceive the cause as being negative...it's the way you interpret external events that create the feelings, not the actual events in themselves...to keep to the example, if you analyze the bullying and come to the conclusion that what they are saying is untrue, then it has no negative effect on you...so, whatever is creating suicidal feelings in you, you need to change the way you interpret these causes (whether it be the death of your father or whatever it may be). Understand that his time had come, do not take responsability for his death...if that's what you are doing. I hope at least some of this makes sense! But you have a great reason to live: your younger brothers...as you say: you could not commit suicide because you have a responsability to be there for them, should it be nessesary. Kudos for that.. OMG..sorry for the long, long post...

naniwazu,

i think i understand what you're saying and you're probably right... my therapist says the same stuff to me, that it's how i interpret things that usually cause me to become even more anxious and depressed. i have a very distorted way of thinking i guess.

but i don't get how you can have positive thoughts about bad things. i'll continue your example of bullying b/c i was severely bullied when i was about 12-13, much of it i blocked out too. i'm having trouble figuring out how you have positive thoughts about being bullied?? how do you just live your life w/o being affected by the bullying when it happens every day?? i guess i just don't understand how this would work for certain events and circumstances... and unfortunately, it's not just my dad's death that makes me feel this way. it was the starting event, but there were plenty of other events that happened as the years have gone by.

First off, it's okay to have negative emotions, in fact it's healthy! But the moment these feelings become destructive, you need to act. I'm not denying that your feelings aren't influenced by external events. They are. But this does not mean that your feelings are beyond your control. Very negative and distorted thoughts (as with suicide) can be altered to less negative and more realistic ones. Only your thoughts and attitude can create your feelings, not the external events in themselves. Your thoughts create your mood, so to speak. So yes, bad things happen in our lives, but by altering our perception of these events we gain a more realistic, less biased, less negative and less distorted picture of them. A healthy dose of sadness, anger etc. is fine, but wanting to commit suicide is a sign of biased and distorted thinking about the world and ones own life.

 

[MotherWolff]

I don't think an optimist or realist can convince a suicidal to not ever kill themselves so easily. Its like whatever they say is pointless in the eyes of the suicidal. Its like fighting fire with fire I suppose. Its just not right for someone to tell a suicidal something like, "There are people going through worse things than you and they're still living," because whatever the suicidal is or has gone through is effecting them badly either way whether it seems small or large so that really doesn't matter.

And telling them things like "life is worth living" just sounds corny to them because they can't "see" why life is worth living in the first place. A suicidal seems to find every reason "not" to live more than reasons "to" live which is why they're suicidal to begin with and is therefore hard to convince otherwise. And I think people who believe in living try to force there opinions on the suicidal a bit too hard as if to the point where they appear bias to the views of the suicidal. I just wanted to say that whatever tactics the optimists or realists and therapists use just don't approve to the suicidal it seems.

Note: I apologize deeply if this post has offended anyone. By that I mean the way I constantly refer to people who are suicidal as "suicidals" as if that's all they are and nothing else. As well as the optimists and realists.

 

[Gone]

I don't think an optimist or realist can convince a suicidal to not ever kill themselves so easily. Its like whatever they say is pointless in the eyes of the suicidal. Its like fighting fire with fire I suppose. Its just not right for someone to tell a suicidal something like, "There are people going through worse things than you and they're still living," because whatever the suicidal is or has gone through is effecting them badly either way whether it seems small or large so that really doesn't matter.

And telling them things like "life is worth living" just sounds corny to them because they can't "see" why life is worth living in the first place. A suicidal seems to find every reason "not" to live more than reasons "to" live which is why they're suicidal to begin with and is therefore hard to convince otherwise. And I think people who believe in living try to force there opinions on the suicidal a bit too hard as if to the point where they appear bias to the views of the suicidal. I just wanted to say that whatever tactics the optimists or realists and therapists use just don't approve to the suicidal it seems.

Note: I apologize deeply if this post has offended anyone. By that I mean the way I constantly refer to people who are suicidal as "suicidals" as if that's all they are and nothing else. As well as the optimists and realists.

I don't think your post was offensive, its probably the smartest thing ive read in a while.

 

[StonedBob]

I agree with you Motherwolff : it's really difficult to convince someone suicidal not to kill himself for the reasons you said. I will also add that saying to a suicidal things like "There are people going through worse things than you and they're still living" will make things worse because it makes the suicidal feel guilty about his feelings (and I'm saying this from my own experience).

About therapists, they may not succeed in convincing a suicidal not to kill himself. But, in my opinion, that doesn't mean therapists are useless : they can help people to find the origin of their depression and surpass it. I know that it is difficult for someone suffering of depression and SA to see a therapist, but remember they are not here to judge us but to help us.

Also, as I writed in a previous post, it can be helpful to see a psychiatrist to begin a treatment. I readed in a scientific magazine that someone suffering of depression has many changes in his brain : the areas of the brain that "create" optimistic thoughts tend to decrease while the areas responsible of pessimistic thoughts tend to increase. So that's why I think a treatment of antidepressant is a (temporary) solution, to restore the normal "mechanism" of the brain.

Note: I didn't want to be rude or to blame suicidal people for not going to see therapists or psychiatrists because, as I said before, I know it's a difficult decision to do. I'm just trying to help. I also hope my message is understandable (I'm french). If you think that what I said is useless, well I'm sorry, as I said I'm just trying to help.

By the way, do you have news of Crayzorder since last week? He hasn't been writing in this thread since last tuesday.

 

[Gone]

The 14.01 he wrote he was happy that school was out.

 

[StonedBob]

The 14.01 he wrote he was happy that school was out.

Thank you for the answer.

I realize that my advices are maybe a bit naive, but I'm just trying to help, sharing my own experience.

 

[Gone]

Oh but don't worry about it, its all good stuff, actuely my therapist said the same stuff as you did about the part of the brain that controlls your optimism.

 

[MotherWolff]

The 14.01 he wrote he was happy that school was out.

Hope that keeps him happy for a while.

By the way, I feel that telling a person who is suicidal to live is just as bad, if not worse, than telling a person who wants to live to die.

 

[marciaX3]

motherwolff,

i couldn't agree w/ you more. i rank "very high" in suicidality so every time something miniscule happens i wanna die, and when something big happens i make attempts. as a suicidal person i would never tell another that they shouldn't kill themselves. to me, it's wrong to do that and hypocritical. all i can do is let them know that i know that low feeling very well and experience it quite often. and whatever they decide to do, i just hope they find the peace they're in desperate need of.

it really drives me nuts when i'm feeling particularly low and someone tells me that i shouldn't try to off myself. they're not in my head, feeling and thinking what i am, they haven't lived my life and the tortures i went through growing up. they have no business telling me how to live or die for that matter. so i appreciate that you can understand this point of view, not many can.

 

[MotherWolff]

Well I don't want anyone to think that I believe suicide is the best/only solution for some one who is incredibly suicidal or anything. I just believe that its totally wrong and misleading for someone to tell a suicidal person that they should live without some kind of a really good reason that a suicidal person may(or may not) accept. First of all its very difficult for someone who is suicidal to see any reason to live at all. This is why its such a flaw to tell a suicidal person to live.

Second of all its very hypocritical for someone(especially if they're a person who has never once experienced suicidal feelings/tendencies) to tell a suicidal person that wanting to die is wrong, selfish, and shameful but living on is courageous, charismatic, and bright because they have no idea how much suicide feelings hurt. So of course they would say its better to live than to die.

What solution do I think is best? I really don't know. Sadly, I'm not a very bold human being so I am almost always neutral on these kind of subjects. For me, I would say that I am mildly suicidal. There a days when I do simply wish that I would just die. And there are other days where I am so damn happy to be alive. I guess I'm like the seasons, everyone is: our thoughts and feelings usually do change(hence our moods).

I have the most bad feeling that my life(if you can even call it a life) will end in a suicide. Right now the only things that are keeping me alive are my family, a few friends over seas, the stupid thought that something special could happen to me(kinda like what Gone said in an earlier post in this thread), the fear of never existing after death(sounds scarier than Hell to me), and wanting to go to the Royal Rumble this Sunday ^_^ lol!

 

[Patrick123]

the whole "Each day gets better" shit is fake

Been there, man. One of the things that has always helped me is knowing that time is so relative; it seems like the routine bullshit and the doldrum of daily life will never end, but it will. You have so many opportunities and moments of serious alteration (in terms of how you experience life) to look forward to. Give it a shot. I guess an obtuse 'hang in there' is all I have to offer...

In the mean time, don't let people exploit your weaknesses. Don't attach yourself to stronger people and don't 'find Christ' as a solution to your problems; these things can be appealing, but they're inherently false (in my opinion) and they'll probably lead to greater confusion or pain down the road. Become yourself, by yourself.

 

[Patrick123]

the whole "Each day gets better" shit is fake

Been there, man. One of the things that has always helped me is knowing that time is so relative; it seems like the routine bullshit and the doldrum of daily life will never end, but it will. You have so many opportunities and moments of serious alteration (in terms of how you experience life) to look forward to. Give it a shot. I guess an obtuse 'hang in there' is all I have to offer...

In the mean time, don't let people exploit your weaknesses. Don't attach yourself to stronger people and don't 'find Christ' as a solution to your problems; these things can be appealing, but they're inherently false (in my opinion) and they'll probably lead to greater confusion or pain down the road. Become yourself, by yourself.