Social Phobes: Extroverted Introverts

[LittleMissMuffet]

I have a theory about the way that human behaviour and personality is. This theory is that socially anxious people are 'extroverted introverts'. I use this term because I intentionally want to imply that we (the socially anxious) are two extremes in the one. That, all people are a make-up of two different aspects (call them, the yin and yang, or anima and animus -whatever...) and that just as a person is never completely one way, all people have different elements.

This decription, 'extroverted introverts', is a correct one for the following reasons...
-all people have different sides, whilst some are more introverted and others more extroverted, all in fact have elements of both
- the more extreme an individual is in one way (eg, extroverted) the more they are also the other (eg, introverted); only, the first is the dominant side of their personality whilst the second is non-dominant (eg: have you ever observed people and noticed how some 'highly extroverted' types were actually described as 'very shy' in their past. This is what I am getting at when I describe how a person with more extreme characteristics is actually a dual mix of two extremes.
- just as the 'feminine' is seen as lower than the 'masculine', 'introversion' is also, generally, regarded as lower than 'extroversion'
-yet, both the masculine and the feminine are always equally present

-also, this description of the highly shy, sensitive and anxious, as being 'extroverted introverts', fits with a lack of adaptability towards extroverted people and and extroverted world. 'Extroversion' is regarded as 'better' and as 'right', whilst the feminine characteristic of 'introversion' is regarded as 'wrong' and 'weak' ....but before I offend any males, the point here, you see, is that where there is one there is always the other.
-in fact, it is seeing one as superior to the other that I believe is the poor belief/perspective that lies behind 'social phobia'
-just as, an inability to adapt to the other way of being that is not dominant to the individual's way of being, (eg; adapting to extroversion when you're dominantly introverted) is to be lacking in a balance between two different polar sides, that goes with seeing and thinking that 'extroversion' is superior to 'introverstion' -and, because these two are actually equal just as they are equally present, unconciously a person also regards the opposite as true: ie: that introversion is superior to extroversion (IOWs, thinking your self lesser goes with thinking your self more important)

I'll stop there and see if anyone has any interest in what on earth I'm goinf on about.

 

[renegadee]

Ok, I guess I understand where you're going: The ying and yang are in everything, they can't exist one without another. That's a theory, I can't say if it's true or false.

I for instance consider my true self as an extrovert, but the world doesn't accept my principles and rejects me, witch makes me an introvert and an extrovert wannabe.

It's all in the feedback you get from the surrounding that make you more of an introvert or extrovert and as much as we might think we are born with SP, the enviroment made us what we are today: introverts. If we expose ourselfs and we get positive feedback I guess sp wasn't much of a problem.

My point of view.

 

[kima]

Yes, that's quite interesting. When I was younger, I seemed to have a balance between being an introvert and an extrovert. I had alot of good feedback and became even more extroverted. But as I got older, I faced alot of rejection and eventually became more introverted - but I still feel like an extrovert on the inside, so I struggle with my feelings alot :? I completely agree with you on how our misguided perceptions of what is 'good' and what is 'bad' causes so much of our problems.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Thanks Renegade and Kima,

Kima, I also agree a lot with your views.
Renegade: I agree a lot with your ideas that it depends upon the environment as to whether we are more the extrovert or the introvert. You also state that you consider your self a true extrovert. ...I don't mean to criticise you, but this is where I am getting at (about why I think I am socially phobic)...If you look at the first idea, it doesn't match the second; since, the first is that, who a person is depends both upon how they feel within themself (eg: extroverted) and also how the environment receives them -ie: that one is relative to the other. But, the second idea is that you (and it needs to be said, that I am also like you) see yourself as an extrovert regardless of how the environment interacts with and interprets your nature.

So there is a mismatch between how the world perceives you and how you perceive your self. Just like what I know about my self: I am like you said: an 'Extrovert Wannabe'. As much as I would like to say that the world is 'phoney', 'people are sheep who follow the pack', I am actually doing the same thing. And I am stuck trying to fit into being an 'extrovert', which society is prefering in a biased way, and failing badly enough to be even more introverted (in a painful, unfulfilling way). ....Like trying to use an old box that is too small now to fit my emotions into; so that my emotions are put out of perspective -put something too big into something small and that something big seems even bigger. Or, like trying to change something that I can't change, and so my attempt to adjust and adapt to the more extroverted world is something of a failure.

And I could 'blame' society and the narrowminded way that people and the crowd prefers the 'strength' and 'confidence' etc of extroversion -except that I think in exactly the same way. ...I'm basically denying my self my own value and personality. So, it's no wonder that I am suffering.
But there is more to it. Since, then I find my self not succeeding to be this, so I flip to seeing my self as being 'introverted'; and in this strange way, I simultaneously hold 'introversion' to be better. There is also the 'vicious circle' of trying to adjust and account for being more introverted, that if this tendency is strong the need for being more extroverted is bound to be greater -so the primary impulse is to try to be extroverted and to 'prefer' extroversion ...or, put simply, like trying to stretch too far.

....The above is kind of confusing (probably for a lack of me being able to articulate things better) but I really think that there is a lack of self-definition at work: a sort of split between two ways and approaches and an inability to integrate to aspects of personality (since, who is truly only one way and not instead aspects of both always?!). And really a lack of clarity and self-definition of who I am in the world.

It is something like, the fragile balance between two aspects of my self somehow slipped and all I have known is to try to keep looking for the same match with the outside world. But I think that the time has come whereby I have to learn how to go about doing this differently.

Speaking of yin and yang, here are some quotes...

'When a person becomes aware of both polarities within any given conflict a great psychological shift occurs..... and the third, transcendant (self-actualized) opinion is created by maintaining the friction between polar opposites for as long as possible' -Carl Jung

'When you make the two into one, male like female, a foot like a hand, a hand like a foot, the outside like the inside, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven' -Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas.

'If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not bring forth from within will destroy you' -Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas.

 

[opinionated_m]

trouble seeing this understanding

i've always scored very far on the introvert scale of the 16personality test

i love my alone time

extrovert means=getting energy & feeling good from being with others.. wanting others company
introvert means=being around ppl wears you out & you have to have some alone time.. you get energy from being alone

i definetly love my alone time, even from family.... i enjoy it. whereas at the same time i guess bc of my SA condition I've learned to never hate anyone. I'm very irritable & impatient (in my head) w others behaviors... but I forgive easily. Sometimes I love being center of attention when drunk & can be rather outgoing (bc it makes up for that inadequacy I have from being alone so much..so when I'm drunk & comfortable & soak up the chance to relate to others & enjoy their company), & I could talk for hours to those I'm close to... I have so much to talk about. but it comes back to the point that I lose energy from being around ppl I'm not close to or feel comfortable with bc I care too much & am anxious of others thoughts of me. too self aware. so i don't know if this goes along with the your theory but.. i've always scored high on introvert side.

 

[blackomen]

Having struggled for SA for years, I'm at the point when I can initiate conversations with strangers or even groups of them on good days. However, I start to feel full blown SA when I'm at parties or any place where people are out of control (e.g. bars, clubs, etc.) I find that I actually enjoy the company of others rather than being alone above all..

On the Myer-briggs personality tests, I usually score as an INTP, with a low I (introversion), moderate N (intuitive), extreme T (thinker), and low P (perceptive).

 

[Vancouver]

Yeah, absolutely. The thing I see with a lot of shy 'introverts' is their desire to achieve the other extreme - they always seem to want to be the most extroverted person on the planet when they're through with their shyness. But I say, extremes are what you want to stay AWAY from. Just work on achieving a sense of balance.

And ironically, the wish to be highly extroverted is what's keeping many introverts from coming out of their shell. Measuring it all on an extreme-to-extreme scale, they measure themselves as either black or white, with no grey area in between; thus, they never feel good enough.

That would be the perfectionists here, to be exact