Men with social anxiety are dangerous

[Yossarian]

The reason for my fear is I value people and therefore their opinion of me. To you this may be childish, selfish and inhumane but hey no ones perfect. I realise I should just care about myself and fuck what other people think and not value their friendship and opinions..Oh no wait….that’s what I do isn’t it? I’m a misanthrope so I actually hate people. Sorry I’m a bit confused. Yeah I’m a bad person because I worry about myself. Self referential behaviour like eating, drinking, breathing that kind of thing….and god forbid such desires like having friends, wanting to be liked are terrible I agree. And anyone who worries about themselves is obviously incapable of acting in an unselfish way. Like all those parents who worry about being a good parent or whether their kids like them……disgusting. Obviously incapable of ever doing what’s in the kids best interest. Yeah because I care about myself I can’t care for anyone else, its kind of obvious now.

"I want to protect some kind of image that I am trying to project to you. I want to control your thoughts and especially control how you perceive me. These motivations are all about SELF."

Yeah you mean like wanting to make a good impression right? Shame on me. I just wonder if I don’t genuinely like (cos I’m misanthropic so I actually hate people) the person I’m mind controlling (and yeah super powers are cool) why would I bother? It’s like if I only cared for myself why can’t I just lie and charm women into bed. Why if all I want is a superficial acceptance for an illusion I create don’t I create an impressive image. Why don’t I care about wealth, status, being cool etc. Or at least try to achieve these things so I’ve a better chance of getting my selfish way with people.

"A man could be nice and respectful because he loves you and wants to express his love to you, or he could be nice and respectful because he wants to project a certain image about himself and does not want to be judged negatively"

Again why would I fear negative judgement by someone I didn’t respect and/or love let alone hate them. So if I like someone and be nice to them I don’t really like them it’s just……pride and ass saving. I know I should be rude and offensive but …..I guess the SP is too deeply ingrained. Its just odd that normal people can be polite and nice but if you have SP suddenly its false. Obvious if you have SP you’re no longer human, no damn I forget it’s misanthropy which is why it’s called social phobia and not misanthropy. Oh well I’m no psychologist. Which would be useful to try and understand why the same rules don’t apply to women.. Or why if normal people dress up to make a good impression or to project a better image of themselves so they might attract someone they aren’t misanthropic…..is everyone who has ever cared what people think about them misanthropic? I mean if you value someone or think they are really special surely you want them to like you. I guess caring about what people think of you is just crazy for a social animal.

No no I get it, it’s about being genuine…..instead of being me I should do what strippers tell me to….yeah be the real me that other people decide upon, like learning to act like a man….dont just be a man by a gender default…..throw away my own personality and instead conform to a narrow minded, ignorant stereotype of what a real man is. Cool. That sounds really genuine, decent and grown up to me.

 

[Anonymous]

It's complicated, I know, but it's worth being honest with yourself, at least for just one moment. Self-consciousness is what it is, and is 100% about focusing on YOURSELF and not much about concern for others, no matter how much you want to dress it up and claim that you are anxious because you have genuine love and concern for others. Socially anxious people care about protecting themselves from criticism -- which is narcissistic, childish, and pointless. Give it up.

Talk to strippers, they know what's up. Their hourly rate may be even less than a head shrinker, so it's like money in the bank.

 

[Anonymous]

his simplistic answers are so funny. Typical he doesn't address anything yoss says. Is it because he is too insecure to question his own belief system...that's both hypocritical and insecure.

 

[Anonymous]

Yoss makes some very logical points that stripper refuses to acknowledge. It's like he comes in here (because he is humble and loving?) to teach us something... but instead of carrying on an honest dialogue and acknowledging that he himself maybe wrong, he chooses to be dishonest and talk past everyone. It's almost like he is projecting: everything that he acuses SA sufferers of he himself can be shown guilty of.

 

[Anonymous]

I've dated a stripper before... while she was a loving and artistic person she was no more qualified to give advice about life than any average person off of the street.

 

[Anonymous]

at one time in kindergarden kids where taught that slavery is correct and women should be subordinate to men. Not so much by words, but by the actions of the adults around them. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Don't pee in the sand pit they never taught me that one

 

[Yossarian]

Thanks for your advice Strip but I don't have a specific problem talking to women. My fear is general but I agree it might help some people. I am also glad it helped you.

I just want to contend the issue that SP is about absolute self-absorbment. You can argue till the cows come home but I know what's in my heart. Everyone is made up of the same emotions, but varying to unique degrees. So everyone is self-conscious. It would be hard to go to the toilet if I wasn't aware of where I was.

I am too self conscious I agree. I don't want to be SP. It's basically cost me the last ten years of my life. But to say I have no compassion or empathy with others or that I am 100% self-conscious is as worrydoll said, ludicrous. I really don't understand where you get this claim from.

You have also said SP is narcissism and misanthropy but these are three completely different things.

 

[Anonymous]

Stripper seems to take some valid points and then not nuance them to the average overanalyzing SPer's liking.

I think he's spot on in that the anxiety is all about you-- what you think others think of you, how your body is reacting, how you will react to how others react to you... it's all about getting away from your self, getting out of your head, at least for a while, and putting something besides our own feelings first...

I think it's way overboard to equate SA with narcissism, self-centeredness, unmanliness, and other nasty-sounding things.... but there are useful parallels to think about there. As usual, coming from a non-SP person, it will sound harsh. But I'm usre if I gave advice to someone with Borderline Personality Disorder (which I definitely don't have), I would also come off as harsh, or non-understanding.

SA IS kinda like self-consciousness gone nuts on steroids. We have to stop paying such extreme amounts of attention to ourselves; in effect, realize that everything isn't "all about us" (in the sense that often IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE how we react to a situation, or how it makes us feel.... "half of life is just showing up" as someone once said-- we need to show up more).

Stripper is much more with it than the other trolls and semitrolls we've seen here lately. Though I still wonder where all these nonSPers are finding SP sites, and then going on them to offer advice (or abuse, in some cases). I wouldn't hang out at a web site for, say, fibromyalgia, cuz I don't have it....

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, I have noticed that I have definite misanthropic tendencies :twisted:

 

[wistful_dementia]

I have to go now-- but I will respond to the rest of smokey's and strippers post later. Now for your reading pleasure 8O :


Guest


(Isn't it funny how each of these posts reveals that we can really only feel our own pain, and not the pain of others so close to us -- like the other gender? Perhaps this is the root of this thing we call "social anxiety." We are driven by fear and not by love.)

In reality does love drive everything? What is your definition of love? I think what drives everything is are motives of self interest. Even if we tell ourselves that what we are doing isn’t for ourselves but for others don’t we have some self interests there like personal gratification for seeing someone else happy? We only should abstain from acts that don’t benefit ourselves directly or indirectly or if they cause harm on others (which indirectly would cause harm on ourselves). When we help others we are helping ourselves. There is nothing wrong with that. Love is beneficial, but doesn’t solve all of the world’s problems in itself. Only good reasoning can make the world a better place.


smoky
Guest

Men are naturally more aggressive, and they didn't become so because they watched too much big time wrestling. Yes, because of testosterone men are naturally more aggressive. Seeing how testosterone levels vary, the behavior of men is going to vary. You therefore are over generalizing. It is more accurate to say that most men are naturally more aggressive. Does this mean that we have to follow every aggressive impulse that we think is natural? Of course not. Most people that have a brain can control their aggressive emotions and impulses to a large degree. The human brain’s ability to reason and control harmful emotions are adaptations which are much more important in terms of survival and achievement in the modern age. So hence, machismo isn’t as relevant in today’s world. But with that said, if you feel that machismo is a requirement then go right ahead and do that just try to use your brain and avoid unjustly hurting other people. (except for the over-socialized, timid, simpering "men" with social anxiety) I assume that you mean that we are over-socialized in that we care too much about what is best for society and not enough about ourselves, hence we are selfish, egotistical people. Or was it, we care too much about ourselves and don’t love other people enough? Your argument doesn’t add up. Like I said before whether we want to admit it or not everyone acts out of self-motivations, only if they harm others or are bad for the greater good is acting out of self-interest wrong. But, I do agree that for most people it would be a major inconvenience to always consider what the greater good is. So at least try to balance your needs and others and at least try not to unjustly hurt other people. ‘Simpering’… ouch  not all of us are simpering all the time… but there are worse things to be regardless…such as a murderer, rapist, or an aggressive non-thinking person.

If we want to drum their aggressive, heterosexual impulses out of them, we will never be truly affective, and we will just warp them into becoming the over-socialized, insecure, timid "men" that populate this board.

How do you jump to the conclusion that you can not be reasonable or respectful to women and not be heterosexual? (See above for the answers to the rest of your sentence).

The trick is to make space for these male qualities -- the aggressiveness, the active sex drive, the adventurous spirit.. They would rather try to brainwash and emasculate men, and turn us all into simpering fools.

The trick is for women to ‘make space’ for men’s needs and natural ‘instincts’, and for men to make space for women’ s needs otherwise we become purely egotistical and nothing good results except for disharmony. And this, many feminists and people who decry rape seem unwilling to do... decry rape? As if that is a bad thing? They have all the reason in the world to do so. I’ll agree we are more aggressive, we have a higher sex drive, and an adventurous spirit but those can be placed in proper perspective…. We don’t have to be physically aggressive all the time (violent anytime unless in self-defense)… common sense tells you that… sex drive---- it’s natural, sex itself isn’t bad and we shouldn’t limit ourselves with willing partners who possess a similar sex drive, but sex drive isn’t an excuse for rape or to stop using our brains; the only people who would use this as an excuse are lower-functioning men who don’t have the ability to control their impulses and aggressiveness.

Society in general relies on these aspects of men -- aggressive, testosterone-charged men are our fire-fighters, oil explorers, police officers, prison guards, astronauts.

Of course society does. Who says that requiring a man to think and be a good person is suddenly going to zap all his testosterone and ‘manliness’ away? But a bigger (and some would argue more important aspect of) society relies on reason and emotions- judges, artist, philosophers, scholars, technicians, and leaders. This is something that is important regardless of testosterone. And man or woman is capable of these.

And, authentically feminine women like at men like these who are authentically masculine and like what they see. I know TONS of women who like their men to be aggressive and bold. These women are themselves extremely confident with their sexuality and femininity, and see men as this desired counterpart. When they see a polite, inhibited, simpering, timid "man" -- it's a huge turn-off. From an evolutionary perspective most women want a man who can be a provider or who has a status. Today now that women can provide more and more for themselves w/o a man, they are looking for true friends as well as lovers, I think. Seeing how the needs of the world are evolving- wisdom and knowledge are much more important traits than aggressiveness. Therefore us timid ‘men’ will continue to get more and more women than aggressive men like yourself. (Really, I know tons and tons of men who aren't over'masculinized' that get tons and tons of women). And you will continue to blame ‘feminist’ and ‘timid’ men for all of your problems in a world that in your view is not following natural law- when in reality evolving and adapting is natural law. I think your problem is that you basically desire liberation from constraint which is coming from your paranoid view of feminist culture. We all within reason want liberation from our constraints- especially from those that we deem unnecessary or even harmful. But the problem is you consider a complete embrace of neo-conservativism and conformity to be the answer. I myself believe that a complete unthinking embrace of either side is dangerous in that it encourages us to avoid challenging our preconceived notions and inherently wrong doctrines. We should examine all issues weighing the benefits and harms from all perspectives. You can still do that and be masculine, if masculinity is what gives you a sense of security.

I think you are confusing assertiveness and confidence with agressiveness and masculinity. Both men and women alike can be assertive or confindent.

 

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to post a reply - I agree totally with the last post - I mean yes there probably are some perceived similarities between men with SP and rapists etc that their loners, but the men with SP are not loners by choice they have a phobia about being with other people but not necessarily hate them because of their phobia. Rapists have social issues, and yes probably personality disorders that have nothing to do with SP. Its all to do with the way they've been brought up and the influences on them as they were growing up. SP is - I think - mainly effected by societies values and how we perceive ourselves, and it can be caused by biological factors. Although SP and personality disorder/social issues are linked the later is more associated with anti-social behaviour not avoiding behaviour. When posting something as shocking as that it would have been better to weigh up your arguments 'for and against' instead of giving a one sided view. Its brought up some interesting issues though.

 

[Anonymous]

Question

Question, I am a graduate student and have been studying SP for many years. Never in my life have I read in the literature any sort of link between SP and dangerous or violent behavior. If you worked in an SP clinic, maybe you would realize the truth. SP's are scared people. The majority of them also fear physical violence. In addition, most SP's are highly empathetic, more so than your average person (without a disorder). SP's avoid causing pain to others because they are so familiar with the emotion themselves. It doesn't feel good. I wish the moderator would step into this. You: Male, 25-35, white, lonely, jealous, and unhappy. Your post is simple. If it makes you happy, go find another site for people with disorders and slander them. Just stay out of this one. Screw on a brain and you'll find that SP's actually commit less crimes than almost all other disorders. You just wasted 10 minutes of my life. Jerk-off