love of my life has APD. what do I do?

[whattodo?]

Well, she called. I reached out to her again with a letter. I told her everything I wanted and needed to tell her, but never got a chance to because she hadn't communicated with me.

She evidently read the letter as soon as she got off work, and called me immediately. I asked her if she read the letter, and she said yes. Asked her how it made her feel, and she said she didn't know. She was very unemotional on the phone. She kept the conversation very short -- she wants to meet on Saturday. She said she needs time to think about it.

I know there's still a lot of stuff to this that I haven't been able to say because of the complexity of it all, but from what you guys know, what do you think? What should I expect?

 

[jackinwa]

The Lighthouse Sanctuary

Props to you, Remus.

Maybe we all should join.

Thanks very, very much.

-Jack in WA

 

[jackinwa]

Well, she called. I reached out to her again with a letter. I told her everything I wanted and needed to tell her, but never got a chance to because she hadn't communicated with me.

She evidently read the letter as soon as she got off work, and called me immediately. I asked her if she read the letter, and she said yes. Asked her how it made her feel, and she said she didn't know. She was very unemotional on the phone. She kept the conversation very short -- she wants to meet on Saturday. She said she needs time to think about it.

I know there's still a lot of stuff to this that I haven't been able to say because of the complexity of it all, but from what you guys know, what do you think? What should I expect?

Don't expect too much. I mean that in the sense that your emotions are probably a tinderbox right now, that you'd be very wanting to do anything to stitch everything together... but it takes two to tango and if she won't give, well... a smashed heart takes a week or more (forever??) to reconstruct.

I think if she is reaching out, she probably has one of two things in mind. She needs to either own up to her mistakes and she sees that you are promising or that you need to be cut loose from her life. Since you gave her "chill time," I suppose I'd bet on her wanting to make things right. But you never know...

In my case of a worst-case scenario, I'd be bitter and resentful and since the world is big enough, I'd find a place to be in, so that I wouldn't relate to that person, or at least as much in a limited sense. So, um... I'm just saying... Be prepared. Kinda.

-Jack in WA

 

[whattodo?]

I appreciate all the help everyone has given me so far. This is an update, and I'd definitely appreciate any thoughts of where I should go from here.

We talked and hung out yesterday for two hours. I met her at her parents place. It was one of the most open, honest, and real conversations I've ever had with another person. She told me everything. Probably the most important part -- she told me she loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore. Later on after we talked about all sorts of things, I told her I still felt we were meant to be together, she said "I just don't feel the same way right now". She was adamant that I did nothing wrong and did nothing to cause this, and that we just grew apart over time. She did tell me the stuff that bothered her, and it was all typical relationship stuff that could have easily been resolved had she talked to me, but she didn't. She has this problem with everyone... extremely afraid of conflict. She knows this and she said there wasn't anything I could have done. Very good news though on one end -- she seems very set on getting health insurance and going back to therapy. She acknowledges that's she has some severe problems right now that she needs to deal with.

She's very content with where she is at the moment -- living at home and helping her parents out financially. As far as our conversation goes, other than the not so good news (which I was expecting at this point), it was basically perfect. No animosity or anything. Just mutual understanding. When we went for a walk, she did say she still felt a bit awkward because it was the first time we had spent time together but weren't a couple. I was surprised she felt this way because everything seemed so natural. There still seemed to be a deep connection between us -- we seemed so close yet at the same time distant because we weren't together anymore. I think it was pretty clear from both of our perspectives that the reason we grew apart was because she felt like she couldn't talk to me. She said rather than listening, I would always give advice, which she took as criticism (no matter how 'neutral' and non-critical the advice was). She also understands she does this, not just with me but with everyone, and that it's her problem not mine. I did apologize for always trying to be the advice giver and not listening as well as I should have... I think this is a typical guy thing, but it's definitely something I could have fixed had I known at the time.

I don't know where to take it from here. Throughout the relationship, even up till the end, she always told me I was everything she ever wanted. It kills me that we grew apart in large part due to irrational beliefs that weren't true. There were others besides the "not being able to talk to me" bit... she thought I HATED her until I sent the letter, despite my 2-3 attempts to contact her since the break up to say to call me when she's ready to talk! I still love her, she seems to be doing ok right now, and I'm excited that she's still open and wanting to go back to therapy. I of course want her back. I'm definitely going to give her some time and space, but I want to try to gradually reconnect with her. I'm okay with myself and how I feel at this point (although I definitely do miss her), but I have to be honest with myself and say that I still love her and want to be with her.

Am I silly to take our talk as a stepping stone to reconnecting with her? I know it will take time and I definitely can't push things no matter what. Oh, she was definitely open to being friends (she was afraid that I no longer wanted a friendship), and hanging out. I just don't know how (or if) this stuff works out in the end, and how I should handle it given her psychological problems.

Any advice would be great.

Oh, one other piece of possibly important info. We've been broken up for 6 weeks. She didn't really know for sure how she felt until a week ago... 5 weeks after the break up. Her sister also told me that she talked to her the day before we met, and she was scared and might cancel the meeting. The letter made her confused and she questioned her decision again. Also, she apparently called her sister crying after I left yesterday, which I found odd because I felt great and she seemed to feel great that we got some closure. Basically she still seems at least a little mixed up, a lot of that is possibly just guilt for how she treated me and handled the situation.

So yeah, thanks again.

 

[Jay Cataldo]

Like I said before, it's not the time to have an "open, honest and real" conversation when in the midst of a breakup. You have those conversations AFTER you get back together or at least re-spark the attraction.

Anyways, I tried to explain that the reasons she gave you for the breakup were all irrelevant... you lost her attraction (or respect) and it's difficult for a woman to verbalize exactly why this happens. She confirmed what I said when she told you she wasn't in love with you, but still loves you, which essentially means "I just want to be friends and use you for emotional support." I warned you that anything other than giving her space would be a bad move.

All the talk did was give your girl closure (which does NOT help you get someone back). You need to realize that she is trying to smooth things out so she can keep you in her life as a friend, so I hope you're cool with that.

Am I silly to take our talk as a stepping stone to reconnecting with her?

Yes, it's silly. Your talk did not help you re-connect... it just helped her feel better about the breakup. And staying friends with her is great if you want to be there to help her get over her issues, but it's a terrible idea if you want to get back together with her.

I hate to blatantly self-promote, but I've written the best book available on this topic, and you need to read it if you're curious to learn where you went wrong and what you need to do to win her back. But if you're cool with just being friends, then you won't need any help.

 

[whattodo?]

Thanks Jay. I googled you, and I'm definitely intrigued by the things you suggest. Her erratic behavior really through me for a loop, but you were right all along. Now that I know she's "okay" (wanting to get therapy, etc.), I can do what I need to do to get her back and forget the BS I've been worrying about the past month and a half.

I need to drop some stuff off at her house next week, but after that I'm done talking to her for awhile. Any free suggestions for me at this point? Thanks for the input.

 

[Jay Cataldo]

I already told you what to do. You need to disappear for a while. Giving a girl closure after a breakup is a big mistake and it's tough to recover from. I would distance myself immediately while spending time learning where I went wrong so I could avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

Plus, if you stick around and stay friends, it's only a matter of time before she calls you up and starts talking to you about what the sex is like with her new boyfriend. Not fun.

 

[Remus]

so right Jay, so right....

 

[gale]

If AvPD is the problem then just continue what you are doing now like calling her and letting her know that you're just right there waiting for her,just do that until she will open the line of communication between you.But if the reason is lost love then man just go on go get another girl,have a life.You have to be certain which one is the case.

 

[whattodo?]

Hi everyone. Things got slightly more complicated in a sense, and I have some questions.

First off, I'd like to say that even IF she does not have avoidant personality disorder, she certainly has a lot of the characteristics of it. She is going to see a psychologist soon, perhaps this weekend.

We have been in low intermittent contact. After we met the first time to talk, which I wrote about earlier, we've seen each other twice. Once for me to drop the rest of her things off at her parents', and once to hang out. The emotions for her still seem to be very back and forth. When I dropped her stuff off, she said that she was no longer in love with me and did not want a relationship, just as she said the week before. She seemed very sure of this. She however did say that she didn't know if she saw anything between us down the road. I left it at that, didn't talk about it much. However, 3 nights later we hung out at her sister's apartment. There were 6 people over there, she knew all of them, yet spent like 90% of the time sitting next to me and talking. She was completely exhausted from work but she was still a bit flirty initially. When we weren't sitting next to each other she was staring and gazing at me for long periods of time. Without any prompting from me, she said "I really miss you". She wants me to come see her and her mom (her mom said she really misses me too). The ex invited me to spend part of Easter weekend with her and her family(???). I don't know yet if I'm going to go. She also said she really hopes I get this job I'm looking for back in town so I can move back (I moved back home this past week until I can find work, 2 hours away) -- she seemed really sincere about this. The way she was looking at me and talking to me, it certainly seemed like there was still a lot of attraction there, and with the way she's been behaving maybe she is still just really mixed up and confused. She told me she REALLY needs to see a psychologist, and soon (yet 2 weeks before she told me she wasn't sick ). The stress from her new job is killing her.

I moved away a few days later, and she started to text me this past week. Again, without any initiation by me, she texts me with "I miss you so much". She also said "I'm sorry I'm so crazy". There were other light playful texts back and forth about random unimportant stuff -- things we used to joke around about.

The next day she sent me a text saying she got stuck at work and couldn't return her apartment key (I moved out the day before). She was clearly really sorry about it and was worried it would cause trouble. I told her I'd take care of it. I could tell by what she wrote in the text (I didn't talk to her, she was at work still) that she was feeling overwhelmingly guilty about it, especially after all the other stuff she put me through. The key thing was minor, but she blows this type of stuff out of proportion. I haven't been in contact with her since then (this was Tuesday).

So for my questions:
1) Should I expect her psychiatrist/psychologist to significantly help her with her avoidant personality symptoms such that IF she wants to talk to me or see me, she will initiate contact? Or do I need to keep in low contact and initiate things? I don't know how passive I should expect her to be after she starts therapy... at one point, for no reason at all, she told me she thought I hated her. If I disappear I could see her getting these ideas into her head again.

2) Should I go see her and her family over Easter? An important point I think is that I've hung out with or talked to all of her family since the breakup (didn't talk much about the ex) since we're all really close. They all still love me and don't understand what happened either really. Or would going to see her over the holiday be a mistake?

3) What do you all think she is feeling/thinking in general based on what I've said? Any other general advice on how I should proceed?

I am confident she will get the help she needs with her psych problems, and I can't do anything more in that regards. My goal now is to see if there is anything still between us (from both of our ends) with the possibility of getting back together with her.

 

[JA2007]

I broke up with my bf of 5 years two months ago. To make a really long story short, I always felt like I was chasing him, while he was pulling away. Then one day I realized I wasn't in love with him the same way anymore. I did love him very much though because we had been through so much together. A few weeks after I left him he wanted me back so bad but I know deep down that I would never feel the same way I did about him again. I do miss him a lot, and I tell him that. He is so special to me. I would probably say the same things to him if I saw him that she says to you, but I know that those feelings are just the realization that he is out of my life and getting back together does not mean reconnecting. I strongly feel that when the connection is gone, it is almost impossible to get back unless a lot of time passes and the two people have changed. If I ran into my ex bf somewhere, I would give him my undivided attention and be really eager to talk to him because I missed him, but I know that doesn't mean I'm in love with him.

I hate to give you bad news, but when a girl says she isn't in love with you, just loves you, it means that spark is gone. It doesn't magically reappear, and if she thinks it does, it is sure to fade again but quicker this time.

 

[whattodo?]

Thanks for the reply JA.

I guess this is just a general reply, not having much to do with my situation, but do you really think that you should expect a "spark" to still be there in a 4 or 5+ year relationship? I associate having that spark with someone to be when you first meet and are all over each other, and that feeling, if you're lucky, lasts maybe a year or two at most for most couples? I think that feeling (limerance, infatuation, whatever you want to call it) for us lasted maybe 2-3 years, and when we moved in together it seemed like a natural progression in the relationship -- from infatuation to a more comfortable companionship love. I mean, there were times when we were still all over each other, even right before the breakup, but being together 4+ years I certainly didn't expect it to be as often as it was when we first met.

Right before the split, she was still telling me and everyone else that she wanted children with me and wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. No one saw this coming. She got some ideas in her head that I didn't want the same things as her, mainly with regards to kids, and she basically just snapped the day she left (her words). A lot of stuff had piled up in her head, and she seems to now realize a lot of it was wrong and irrational and that she should have talked to me about it.

I dunno, am I incorrect to think that we should not expect that "spark" to last forever? Maybe I'm associating that word with a different feeling, but I don't even know if I would say I felt a spark anymore... yet I had no intention of leaving. I don't know if I've ever seen a long term relationship where it didn't grow into a more comfortable-type love.

As a side note, she has said the reasons for her lost feelings were due to problems on her end, and she recognizes this. Things related to her low self esteem in particular, and her past abusive relationship(s). There were specific problems that she had brought up in the past, but there wasn't much I could do from my end to fix them, and she recognized that she was the one who needed help. The big one was that she felt like that she couldn't talk to me because she didn't know what would make me angry and "blow up", so she withdrew.

Haha, well I think I'm rambling because I'm drunk and I don't even know if there's anything worth replying to in this mess I wrote. Maybe I'll check back tomorrow ::.

 

[JA2007]

Thanks for the reply JA.

do you really think that you should expect a "spark" to still be there in a 4 or 5+ year relationship? I associate having that spark with someone to be when you first meet and are all over each other, and that feeling, if you're lucky, lasts maybe a year or two at most for most couples? I think that feeling (limerance, infatuation, whatever you want to call it) for us lasted maybe 2-3 years, and when we moved in together it seemed like a natural progression in the relationship -- from infatuation to a more comfortable companionship love. I mean, there were times when we were still all over each other, even right before the breakup, but being together 4+ years I certainly didn't expect it to be as often as it was when we first met.

You are right. That initial spark/infatuation feeling does fade into a more comfortable, secure feeling. I think it changes into a different kind of "spark" as time goes on. It's not so exciting because nothing is new, but that spark should turn into a real emotional connection where you feel completed by the person. Mental problems can keep people from connecting, and it's no one's fault. In more tangible terms, I think deeply connecting with someone in a long term relationship means you are never thinking "what else is out there? how different would my life be if I were not in this relationship?" You are too busy being excited about how secure and excited you feel about growing old together (sorry to sound so cheesy).

 

[rex]

Hi everyone. Things got slightly more complicated in a sense, and I have some questions.

First off, I'd like to say that even IF she does not have avoidant personality disorder, she certainly has a lot of the characteristics of it. She is going to see a psychologist soon, perhaps this weekend.

We have been in low intermittent contact. After we met the first time to talk, which I wrote about earlier, we've seen each other twice. Once for me to drop the rest of her things off at her parents', and once to hang out. The emotions for her still seem to be very back and forth. When I dropped her stuff off, she said that she was no longer in love with me and did not want a relationship, just as she said the week before. She seemed very sure of this. She however did say that she didn't know if she saw anything between us down the road. I left it at that, didn't talk about it much. However, 3 nights later we hung out at her sister's apartment. There were 6 people over there, she knew all of them, yet spent like 90% of the time sitting next to me and talking. She was completely exhausted from work but she was still a bit flirty initially. When we weren't sitting next to each other she was staring and gazing at me for long periods of time. Without any prompting from me, she said "I really miss you". She wants me to come see her and her mom (her mom said she really misses me too). The ex invited me to spend part of Easter weekend with her and her family(???). I don't know yet if I'm going to go. She also said she really hopes I get this job I'm looking for back in town so I can move back (I moved back home this past week until I can find work, 2 hours away) -- she seemed really sincere about this. The way she was looking at me and talking to me, it certainly seemed like there was still a lot of attraction there, and with the way she's been behaving maybe she is still just really mixed up and confused. She told me she REALLY needs to see a psychologist, and soon (yet 2 weeks before she told me she wasn't sick ). The stress from her new job is killing her.

I moved away a few days later, and she started to text me this past week. Again, without any initiation by me, she texts me with "I miss you so much". She also said "I'm sorry I'm so crazy". There were other light playful texts back and forth about random unimportant stuff -- things we used to joke around about.

The next day she sent me a text saying she got stuck at work and couldn't return her apartment key (I moved out the day before). She was clearly really sorry about it and was worried it would cause trouble. I told her I'd take care of it. I could tell by what she wrote in the text (I didn't talk to her, she was at work still) that she was feeling overwhelmingly guilty about it, especially after all the other stuff she put me through. The key thing was minor, but she blows this type of stuff out of proportion. I haven't been in contact with her since then (this was Tuesday).

So for my questions:
1) Should I expect her psychiatrist/psychologist to significantly help her with her avoidant personality symptoms such that IF she wants to talk to me or see me, she will initiate contact? Or do I need to keep in low contact and initiate things? I don't know how passive I should expect her to be after she starts therapy... at one point, for no reason at all, she told me she thought I hated her. If I disappear I could see her getting these ideas into her head again.

2) Should I go see her and her family over Easter? An important point I think is that I've hung out with or talked to all of her family since the breakup (didn't talk much about the ex) since we're all really close. They all still love me and don't understand what happened either really. Or would going to see her over the holiday be a mistake?

3) What do you all think she is feeling/thinking in general based on what I've said? Any other general advice on how I should proceed?

I am confident she will get the help she needs with her psych problems, and I can't do anything more in that regards. My goal now is to see if there is anything still between us (from both of our ends) with the possibility of getting back together with her.

3 years later, what was the outcome? The EXACT same thing has happened to me over the past 2-3 weeks. No contact from her yet.