How far down the ladder are we?

[Cynic]

Some really good posts.

But I now realize that the title actually has more than one meaning. So i will try to "break it down" into separate possible parts.

Here are some different definitions of "loser"...
. . . * An "overall" loser

• May feel unimportant to society/people (ie feel that society/people regards you as unimportant to them, or just unimportant/unworthy/scum/etc)
• Bottom-dog. Opposite of top-dog. End of the "queue" for receiving good things in life. Probably start of the "queue" for receiving bad things in life.
• "Loses/misses out" on things (eg in western society, missing out on things that it values, such as money, girlfriend, car, job,..)
• Scorned, rejected, ridiculed, bullied/harassed, ignored. Why?. Maybe due to "not being like everybody else" in society.
• Inferior in certain/many aspects

And here are some different "ladders"...

• Top-dog/bottom-dog
• Career
• Company
• Alpha, Beta, Theta ...... (Us)
• Social status
• Social class (nobility...surfs)

It would be an interesting project to expand upon all this, such as to place us on ladders compared to the common street beggar. I may do this...

That's one place where I tick all the boxes.

I can guarantee than none of you are down the ladder, you just convince yourself that you are.

Life experience dictates that I'm afraid.

I understand what you mean and it's admirable idea. But do you think it's reality? Society treats even the most corrupt and lazy CEO better than the most hard working and decent worker at the bottom of the pyramid.
It SHOULDN'T be like this, but it is.

Right.

We are NOT lower than criminals

I think you'll find plenty of evidence to the contrary.

at the end of the day, does it really matter where we are positioned?

Well considering that one's worth in the world is universally measured according to one's number in the pecking order, it obviouslly does matter, esp. as almost everyone looks for someone to stamp on.

Should we care what others think? Absolutely not, unless it's people that we confide in and have a relationship with.

The only relationship one at the bottom is worthy of is a toxic one. That isn't my opinion, but a more or less unanimouslly accepted fact.

 

[Fighter86]

I feel quite down the ladder, I feel kind of sad, let down, dejected really, alot of things going through my mind, none good, nor happy stuff to think about.

 

[Cynic]

Same old Cynic

And you love me for it too! ::

 

[N0D]

I don't know how society sees us but I can say that when I was a junkie I had a lot more self respect and self esteem. I at least had fake druggie friends and whatnot then. And I didn't feel so bad about anything...well because I was basically numb all the time.

 

[skins]

but seriously how many times have you been able to identify a social phobe in your life?? going by statistics i bet we see them all the time and don't even realise it..even after talking to them, i know myself i'm pretty good at hiding it...unless i get to know someone very intimitly, they would have no clue about it, i might seem a bit shy at times but thats it....someone mentioned us being in the same vane as fat people, geeks, and druggies...but all these types have obvious outside signs that make them 'loosers' ...you can be social phobe and no one can suspect a thing usually.

 

[N0D]

a lot of us have zero social life and very rarely leave the house, its only because we don't participate in society that they don't spit on us.

 

[R3K]

I sometimes imagine what it'd be like if I lived in medival europe with my personality type/SAD. back then there was like four things you could be: some noble person, a servant, a soldier, or a pick-pocket/bottomfeeder. i'm not an expert on the matter, but i'd bet my life savings (all $12.00 of it) that every social phobe back in those days fell into the pick-pocket category... the bottom rung. cause what the hell you gonna do in that era, stand around and be socially nervous expecting someone to give you all kinds of hookups? hell nah, you don't got a chance, you gotta lie, cheat and steal just to survive. probably have to kill a good number of people too ::.

I'm betting we current day social phobes are the descendents of those bottomfeeders. the bottom rung.

 

[Cynic]

I'm betting we current day social phobes are the descendents of those bottomfeeders. the bottom rung.

How could we, assuming the bottom feeders would have been cast out of the human family and ergo eliminated from sexual selection back then?

 

[N0D]

throughout history the bottom of the social ladder is always the majority, it isn't likely it could be eliminated.

 

[R3K]

How could we, assuming the bottom feeders would have been cast out of the human family and ergo eliminated from sexual selection back then?

They would have "selected" partners from among themselves--other losers/bottomfeeders.

i'm just saying the world was crazy back then and there was no police everywhere making sure everything was honkey-dorrey. social phobes in the old world made more sense, now days you have to be social, outwardly happy and productive or you're a huge loser. back then it was like, watch out for that antisocial lookin dude there, he looks like he's packin a dagger.

 

[Cynic]

throughout history the bottom of the social ladder is always the majority

Even those near the bottom always have their own 'losers' to gang up on - one need look no further than prisons for evidence.

They would have "selected" partners from among themselves--other losers/bottomfeeders.

Maybe some would, but the losers among losers still wouldn't. Besides, some of the 'loser' females would end up with a servant or soldier, rather than a male bottom feeder.

 

[SunFlexoid]

You can be a thief, rapist, murderer, bully etc etc and still be popular, it is a matter of having certain qualities.

If people don't see any of those qualities in you, no humor, no superficial charm, no confidence, then you have nothing, and you are nothign to other people.

If you think that you are a "decent person" at heart, or a "nice guy", or not any worse than anyone else, it counts for nothign, nix nada.

 

[CosmicNeurotica]

Studies have shown that people with anxiety in social situations usually cause the other people to become uncomfortable and mean because they are retaliating against the possibility of sharing our feelings. They don't want to be like us so they treat us worse because of it. Finding a sort of dominance or superiority to confirm they aren't like us and what not so forth. Something along those lines.

That makes a lot of sense. People by nature never like to show inferiority. Isn't it really the reason most of us suffer?

It's another catch 22 sort of.
We feel inferior and don't want others to know. They retaliate to us so others don't think they are inferior. But we only feel inferior because of the way society functions, which is that everyone must always feel like they are superior.
I don't know. There's some kind of philosophy in there somewhere.

It's a pretty crappy deal though.

 

[CosmicNeurotica]

You can be a thief, rapist, murderer, bully etc etc and still be popular, it is a matter of having certain qualities.

If people don't see any of those qualities in you, no humor, no superficial charm, no confidence, then you have nothing, and you are nothign to other people.

If you think that you are a "decent person" at heart, or a "nice guy", or not any worse than anyone else, it counts for nothign, nix nada.

The unfortunate reality. Very true.

 

[quinc]

people dont like being around socially awkward people because nothing they can do or say can make you not socially awkward. its up to you to face your fears and tell youself that you dont wanna live like this. i use to be this way it use to take me awhile before i got to know someone. and when you socially awkward and dont say anything or are nervous and dont let yourself open up then that puts them in an awkward position cause they cant say anything and you cant say anything. not alot of people are gonna play the 21 questions game and try and get you to open up. you cant always look at it from your perspective.

 

[Semaphore]

Finding someone to look down on is like killing and war, it is such a basic part of human nature that it will always be there, no matter what anyone may say or do. Unfortunately, societies will always place those with the greatest confidence at the top, regardless of how good a person they actually are.