Fix for Lemon Syndrome?

[Bronson99]

A little birdy asked me this: If a person has poor social skills, uneven intellect, no clear talent in anything, no gifts, poor attention span.. and, as a result, low confidence... might he/she request genetic engineering to make his/herself even with the "average person"? Such a cure for a failed birthing experiment--while unfeasible now--should not be so much to ask. Consider the poor sap only asks to be given the tools an "average person" was given. For, on his own without anything in his toolset, such a crappy human product is left limp and without purpose.

For example if today someone invented a computer with the same power of an old Apple 2 and claimed it could do amazing things, you'd tell that inventor he's full of s**t. In a way, we have a parallel to the failed "birthing" experiment, except this one is electronic, and the other is biological. But in a sense, you could take that worthless piece of electronic waste to a computer expert who could re-engineer it and make it nearly as good as the average PC today.

But you cannot do anything, right now, for a human idiot who can't do anything because of genetics that lacked instructions for intelligence and social skills. Without any kind of fixes or beneficial tweaks, such a product is a waste with almost no purpose--or at the least, no real possibility of ever being desired by anyone.

Of course, this isn't about me... it's just this little bird in my ear is asking me this question, and demanding answers I don't have. So I thought you folks might have some ideas.

 

[theslowesthand]

I'm afraid the "tech" is not really there yet, unfortunately for us living right now. But in saying that, there does seem to be a heck of a lot of possibilities out there (now & upcoming, in new science/medicine/technology), but most is quite costly, and so is out of reach of "mere mortals". I suspect the that all these things will come about at the same time as when psychotherapy find PROPER solutions to the variety of mental/emotional ailments that exist, such as depression .. and no sooner than that.

From my studying, i believe most of the "real damage" is done from within the womb to about 2-3 yrs. After which the amygdala memories are firmly entrenched, basically hard-wired ... and all future feelings/emotions/habits/ways for the rest of one's life are based on all that was experienced in the first ~3 years of life.

 

[Odo]

People aren't products, and society is supposed to be about empowering and accommodating people, not alienating them from each other based on some assessment of their usefulness... but of course, the latter happens far more often than the former.

I don't think that everyone is equal so much as some people are better suited to certain environments or situations than others... and in most cases I firmly believe that looking towards modern society to give your life meaning is just going to make you extremely depressed and alienated, unless you're a complete idiot. You can look towards friends and family and find value in that, but even those things are being deformed by technology.

Life is easier but less fulfilling, and the skills we need to survive are in direct opposition to millions of years of evolution-- most of the time we don't need to be active or strong or creative or intelligent... it's all about listening and repeating. We're encouraged to suppress most of what makes us feel alive so that we can have something we think we're supposed to want, because it's easier and more secure.

I keep coming back to this article about mice given everything they need except space, and the effect it has on their 'universe':

CABINET // The Behavioral Sink

I think there are some pretty obvious signs that this is happening to the human race right now as well.

 

[Bronson99]

From my studying, i believe most of the "real damage" is done from within the womb to about 2-3 yrs. After which the amygdala memories are firmly entrenched, basically hard-wired ... and all future feelings/emotions/habits/ways for the rest of one's life are based on all that was experienced in the first ~3 years of life.

Then what could have happened to me in the womb to the 2-3 years after birth that made me like.... *this.*

I'm no scientist, but as far as in-utero, I don't believe in putting so much stock in the idea of pollutants in the atmosphere, teratogens, and so on, being a major cause for feeble social skills, ADHD, poor intellect, and so on. IMHO it is beyond idiotic to have a sensitive list of 500 possible birth complications and speculate that since someone has a few checkmarks there, that's the reason for his/her poor development. You could go from mild jaundice, C-section birth, induced birth, forceps usage; (while pregnant) occasional Tylenol use, 2 cocktails imbided 3 days after conception, a mild fall on ice, an anxiety attack, 2 months of depression; all the way down to living near a highway before and after birth (yes, really!).., or you can get practical and therefore just include the most obvious problems, such as premature birth or genuine alcoholism/smoking/drug abuse.

To the best of my knowledge, my "gestation and birth" had no obvious complications. Something else has to be the culprit, in my case at least. But what...?

 

[Bronson99]

People aren't products, and society is supposed to be about empowering and accommodating people, not alienating them from each other based on some assessment of their usefulness... but of course, the latter happens far more often than the former.

"People aren't products?" Oy Vey...

Products are marketed. And if you don't know how to market yourself in today's world, lemme tell you, you ain't going nowhere. We are, indeed, products. Or we are at least supposed to be the salesman promoting it (ourselves.)

 

[Opaline]

"People aren't products?" Oy Vey...

Products are marketed. And if you don't know how to market yourself in today's world, lemme tell you, you ain't going nowhere. We are, indeed, products. Or we are at least supposed to be the salesman promoting it (ourselves.)

Maybe, but should it be that way? Is that something we can change, or should we simply just accept it? (I don't think so)

 

[Opaline]

People aren't products, and society is supposed to be about empowering and accommodating people, not alienating them from each other based on some assessment of their usefulness... but of course, the latter happens far more often than the former.

I don't think that everyone is equal so much as some people are better suited to certain environments or situations than others... and in most cases I firmly believe that looking towards modern society to give your life meaning is just going to make you extremely depressed and alienated, unless you're a complete idiot. You can look towards friends and family and find value in that, but even those things are being deformed by technology.

Life is easier but less fulfilling, and the skills we need to survive are in direct opposition to millions of years of evolution-- most of the time we don't need to be active or strong or creative or intelligent... it's all about listening and repeating. We're encouraged to suppress most of what makes us feel alive so that we can have something we think we're supposed to want, because it's easier and more secure.

I keep coming back to this article about mice given everything they need except space, and the effect it has on their 'universe':

CABINET // The Behavioral Sink

I think there are some pretty obvious signs that this is happening to the human race right now as well.

I agree with this so much.

 

[Odo]

"People aren't products?" Oy Vey...

Products are marketed. And if you don't know how to market yourself in today's world, lemme tell you, you ain't going nowhere. We are, indeed, products. Or we are at least supposed to be the salesman promoting it (ourselves.)

Opaline already answered you, but because I disagree so strongly, I'm going to do it too.

There's a difference between how consumer society treats people or expects them to treat each other, and what people really are. There is pressure to adapt to it because it's so pervasive, but that doesn't mean you should accept your role in it as who you really are, or your success within that framework as some measure of your inherent value.

If you fail to go through with a murder you planned because you couldn't get over your conscience, you're a bad murderer... but that doesn't mean you're a bad person.

How you see yourself is relative to what you believe in, so if you're constantly trying to see yourself relative to beliefs that you project upon others, you're always going to feel lost.

 

[Bronson99]

Well this might be coming from out-of-bounds, I suppose, but I'm not sure you can really understand the source of my frustration if you actually have marketable skills or at least some qualities that society itself values. I'm thinking that both of you, Odo and Opaline, are fairly qualified individuals who benefited from having underlying talent or cognitive gifts, and not just sheer hard work (although that plays a role, it's rarely the only factor in anyone's success.)

If someone has qualities that aren't needed, and deficiencies that prevent acquisition of needed skills, that person is going to feel like a lemon. Hence, my original post...

Instead of simply dismissing my concerns, or whatever, you should try seeing it from my vantage point first. Cool beans?

 

[Odo]

Well this might be coming from out-of-bounds, I suppose, but I'm not sure you can really understand the source of my frustration if you actually have marketable skills or at least some qualities that society itself values. I'm thinking that both of you, Odo and Opaline, are fairly qualified individuals who benefited from having underlying talent or cognitive gifts, and not just sheer hard work (although that plays a role, it's rarely the only factor in anyone's success.)

If someone has qualities that aren't needed, and deficiencies that prevent acquisition of needed skills, that person is going to feel like a lemon. Hence, my original post...

Instead of simply dismissing my concerns, or whatever, you should try seeing it from my vantage point first. Cool beans?

I don't think you understand what we're getting at. I don't have marketable skills, I just don't let other people define my sense of self worth or tell myself I'm worthless because my current situation isn't the greatest. And the best way to get what you want is to just not give up.

 

[Gieky]

People aren't products, and society is supposed to be about empowering and accommodating people, not alienating them from each other based on some assessment of their usefulness... but of course, the latter happens far more often than the former.

I don't think that everyone is equal so much as some people are better suited to certain environments or situations than others... and in most cases I firmly believe that looking towards modern society to give your life meaning is just going to make you extremely depressed and alienated, unless you're a complete idiot. You can look towards friends and family and find value in that, but even those things are being deformed by technology.

Life is easier but less fulfilling, and the skills we need to survive are in direct opposition to millions of years of evolution-- most of the time we don't need to be active or strong or creative or intelligent... it's all about listening and repeating. We're encouraged to suppress most of what makes us feel alive so that we can have something we think we're supposed to want, because it's easier and more secure.

I keep coming back to this article about mice given everything they need except space, and the effect it has on their 'universe':

CABINET // The Behavioral Sink

I think there are some pretty obvious signs that this is happening to the human race right now as well.

^ I love this reply!

 

[Bronson99]

I don't think you understand what we're getting at. I don't have marketable skills, I just don't let other people define my sense of self worth or tell myself I'm worthless because my current situation isn't the greatest. And the best way to get what you want is to just not give up.

Well I definitely understand what you're saying.

But the pessimist in me wants to say that some people, for whatever reason, are just not able to compete--at all--within the boundaries of modern society. There really is no getting around the problem of competition, we're all affected by it.

So if I suppose if there was a niche for the socially clueless shy person who has no natural urge to follow society's lead, difficulty with math and most academics, greatly disorganized and unable to get started on doing things... then I might be able to take advantage of that niche, gain some slight bit of status, and then attain some of the things I want (not greatness, but just some kind of emotional security, contentment, and so on.)

Eh, among the tomato plants in the garden, there's always a few that don't yield any fruit, right? Perhaps my situation is analogous. If I have no innate qualities valued by society, then I'm not sure what to do or where to start, basically... that's the core of the issue. Finding value among friends and family... that would be the mature way to tackle this problem of low self-worth. Not sure I'm there yet. Not sure I want to "settle" for it. I want to feel appreciated by someone besides family or even friends: preferably of the opposite sex. But you need *some* status, at least, to have even the slightest chance at that.

 

[Feathers]

I wouldn't want any genetic engeneering, they've done a bad enough job with GMOs as it is - crops that then succumb to some 'innocent' disease that eg natural cotton can fight off, health problems from eating them.... Some would probably like to do that on humans too, how ethical it would be though?

We are a product of not just genes, but also environment and self-activity.

A lemon may be sour and still full of vitamin C! And the lemon flower is beautiful! I love my lemon tree even though it's not perfect! (The main branch 'died') but it still gave us some lovely lemons!

So... if you feel like a lemon, think about how lemons are needed and important in this world too, and so are you! Maybe you just need to find your 'niche' and ideal lifestyle (a lot can be done to improve attention span, confidence etc)

 

[Feathers]

About the mice in laboratory - hmm... The world is big and if we all learnt to live in peace with each other in a humble way, a lot of people could co-exist!

Trouble is some wish more than others, civilization has been living in excess, and some say that every civilisation before us failed at its peak, because it wasn't sustainable. If we learn to live in a sustainable manner, people could co-exist at least until we discover some other good planets or build space stations to live on...